Author Topic: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?  (Read 1700 times)

BiggerFishToFI

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Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« on: February 08, 2023, 09:26:27 AM »
We want and plan to move from a major metro area in Colorado to a mountain town. Spouse and I both work remote jobs with a combined HHI ~290k. We have a 8 month old infant and may or may not try for another. We are mid-30s.

We currently own a home in said metro and plan to sell and have approx. 230k equity.

We have ~1.1MM in index funds and 60k in I-bonds, 20k in cash. 400k of this is in taxable with not substantial gains. We could sell 200k taxable and only pay a few grand in taxes. We are currently stockpiling excess cash while maxing out tax-deferred space.

We are looking at homes in the $650k-$800k range and plan to buy Fall 2023 or Spring 2024. Plan to use $230k equity + $60k I-bonds + 40k cash + (some amount of taxable). Our goal is to have the home paid off and have ~2MM invested at which point we will transition to part time work / consulting. Stretch goal is to get there in the next 5 years.

Our current housing is only costing us $1250 / month due to the very low interest rate and 270k mortgage balance

If you take housing out of the picture we spend ~85k / year including child care. This should drop to closer to 65k in a few months once we transition from a daytime nanny to daycare, then even more in 4 years once public school is available.

The questions:

How much house can we realistically afford and still meet our goals?

How much taxable should we sell towards a downpayment, if any given current interest rates?

Will we be shooting ourselves in the feet with this lifestyle inflation? The move is strictly about being closer to ski resorts, hiking, biking, rivers and the things that truly bring us joy.

Talk or push us off the ledge! Thanks in advance

clarkfan1979

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2023, 10:41:46 AM »
I live in Pueblo West and get about 40 days of snowboarding every winter in the Colorado mountains. We do another 2-3 weeks of camping in the mountains during the summer. As much as I love the Colorado mountains, I could never commit to living there full-time (12 months/year). It's too cold for too long for me. I lived in Breckenridge for a winter season and it was super fun (Mid October to Mid April). After the winter season was over, I needed warmer weather. 

I think most people on this forum would agree that you could afford it. Are you confident that your jobs will be 100% remote forever? Do you think you can handle living in the mountains full-time, 12 months/year? I would seriously considering renting for 1-year in the mountains before buying something. If you have kids, do some research on the local schools before buying a house.

If it was me, I would buy a single family home with a separate mother-in law suite or the potential to section one off from the main house. The extra space would provide me emotional comfort. If I ever fell into financial distress, I could rent it out to a long-term or short-term basis for very good money during the ski season.


BiggerFishToFI

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2023, 01:16:56 PM »
I live in Pueblo West and get about 40 days of snowboarding every winter in the Colorado mountains. We do another 2-3 weeks of camping in the mountains during the summer. As much as I love the Colorado mountains, I could never commit to living there full-time (12 months/year). It's too cold for too long for me. I lived in Breckenridge for a winter season and it was super fun (Mid October to Mid April). After the winter season was over, I needed warmer weather. 

I think most people on this forum would agree that you could afford it. Are you confident that your jobs will be 100% remote forever? Do you think you can handle living in the mountains full-time, 12 months/year? I would seriously considering renting for 1-year in the mountains before buying something. If you have kids, do some research on the local schools before buying a house.

If it was me, I would buy a single family home with a separate mother-in law suite or the potential to section one off from the main house. The extra space would provide me emotional comfort. If I ever fell into financial distress, I could rent it out to a long-term or short-term basis for very good money during the ski season.

Thats a lot of driving from Pueblo! Assuming you're driving up and back each day and not staying up there for extended periods, that's 200 hours a season, or 8.3 entire 24 hour days :O

Thats what we are trying to get away from.

We're looking at Durango BTW. We are big on the backcountry riding and Purgatory/Hesperus are both less than 20-30 mins. We dig the more community resort vibe, its what I grew up with. Also it's not as cold/snowy as Breck.

uniwelder

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2023, 02:53:55 PM »
You can certainly move to a mountain town. Living in the Appalachians is extremely LCOL. I’m pretty sure those aren’t the mountains you’re referring to though. I’ve nothing else useful to add. Just needed to get that off my chest. Members of this forum seem to forget there is more than one set of mountain ranges in this country.

joe189man

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2023, 05:04:40 PM »
it may be tough to get something for $800k in Durango but that is a nice area with a fun vibe

assuming you use $100k from your taxable to help fund the new house that leaves $300k and have $1.1 million in 401ks for a total of $1.4 million.
This will grow to over $2 million in 5 years assuming 6% interest and with about $50k/year in additional 401k contributions so that has you covered with that goal

the house would be the key

assume you have a $400k loan with a P&I total of ~$2500, with about $350 of that going to principal. In 5 years you will payoff about $66k in principal from normal payments so that leaves about $434k in ~60 payments or about $7250 per month extra per month in principal payments or a monthly mortgage payment of just over $10k

if that seems reasonable you should be good to go

i dont think you will get what you want in Durango for $800k though, seem like most ski-centric mountain towns you need $1.2 million + for a decently sized starter home

« Last Edit: February 08, 2023, 10:37:03 PM by joe189man »

darkskys

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2023, 06:20:56 AM »
Durango, CO would be one of my first choices if I were to relocate. You will have a tough time spending less than 800k though as the above poster said. A lot of places in that range need work too.

I would definitely consider renting for a year. You may decide the community there isn't for you, or the isolation is untenable. Getting out of Durango to any metro is going to be an ordeal, especially with kids.

nouseforausername

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2023, 06:31:24 AM »
You can certainly move to a mountain town. Living in the Appalachians is extremely LCOL. I’m pretty sure those aren’t the mountains you’re referring to though. I’ve nothing else useful to add. Just needed to get that off my chest. Members of this forum seem to forget there is more than one set of mountain ranges in this country.

Any suggested places? Harrisonburg seems nice, and has amenities / JMU is there.

uniwelder

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2023, 07:15:31 AM »
You can certainly move to a mountain town. Living in the Appalachians is extremely LCOL. I’m pretty sure those aren’t the mountains you’re referring to though. I’ve nothing else useful to add. Just needed to get that off my chest. Members of this forum seem to forget there is more than one set of mountain ranges in this country.

Any suggested places? Harrisonburg seems nice, and has amenities / JMU is there.

For OP's case, I have no suggestions.  The post started at "I want to live in a mountain town with skiing, river, hikes, biking" to "we're looking at Durango, CO".  I think OP pretty much knows where they want to live.

In the Appalachians, Harrisonburg is nice.  I have a friend that lives there.  I'm in a different college town (Virginia Tech) a little further south that has the New River (second oldest in the world) and Appalachian Trail going right past it.  The terrain isn't as extreme as the Rocky Mountains, but how big do you need your mountains to be?  Plus we have more salamander species than anyone else in the world ;)

Laura33

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2023, 10:40:33 AM »
1.  Second (third) advice to rent for a year.  Hedge against jobs not staying remote, deciding you don't like it, etc.

2.  Don't fixate on having the house paid off on day 1.  Goal should be having the mortgage paid off by the time you are ready to quit those jobs entirely.  I would not take a whole bunch out of the market to avoid a mortgage -- you need that $$ to continue to grow for you for several decades.  Once your 'stache is big enough to support you entirely (without the mortgage) by your FIRE date (using reasonably conservative projections), then you can put your extra income to the mortgage.

CatamaranSailor

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2023, 11:11:49 AM »
I lived in Durango for ten years. Still visit frequently. I had the chance to move back a few years ago and did not do it. That being said, it's a great town. Having the college there is nice. Traffic, especially in the summer, is crazy. If you like outdoor stuff, you'll never lack for stuff to do. We did not go back because of several reasons. Cost was a huge factor but not the only one. As far as housing is concerned, in town is astronomical. Out of town is better but then you have the long drives to think about. Working remotely would mitigate some of that. Wages are low in town if you were to lose the remote option for jobs. It could get dicey if you dropped 7-8 hundred k on a house and then found yourself scrambling for a paycheck. Bayfield to the east is nice, but getting pricier. Cortez to the west is..meh. Ouray and Silverton are both tourist towns (and gorgeous) but still expensive and somewhat isolated. I'm with the poster that suggested renting. Try it before you buy it.

FINate

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2023, 12:13:19 PM »
You don't have to move to a mountain town for access to the outdoors. We live in Boise and our local ski resort is just 30 minutes up the mountain. We get in 40-50 days of skiing per season. There are hundreds of miles of hiking and biking trails that start a few blocks from our house. Boise isn't unique in this regard, the same can be said of Ogden, UT, Spokane, WA and other cities in the West. You can still buy houses in/near these cities for under $400k.

Yes, moving to a HCOL area will set back your plans. You have to decide for yourself if it's worth it, no one here can make that value judgement for you.

I would also recommend renting for the first year. Durango isn't just a mountain town, it's also a tourist destination. Make sure you're okay with the influx of people during peak seasons. Also, you haven't mentioned your significant other: what do they think about living in a small tourist town? Do they have experience with this? I grew up in a small-ish tourist destination and I don't miss the high prices, crowded restaurants, or driving a long distance to do more than basic shopping.

One final thought that may not even be on your radar. Review the Colorado Wildfire Risk Map for the area (https://co-pub.coloradoforestatlas.org/#/). Durango is surrounded by high risk/high intensity burn zones, which will get even worse with climate change. IMO, towns like this are primed to burn. Don't buy a house in the forest, make sure there's more than one escape route, and check fire insurance rates before you make an offer.

jeroly

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2023, 12:26:38 PM »
Even if you pay cash you will have housing expenses - property taxes and insurance and maintenance and utilities and…

So, depending on the municipality, you may be out tens of thousands of ‘housing’ dollars.

For estimating purposes, though, 2 mil in today’s dollars seems reasonable.
If you take out a $500k mortgage and don’t touch your index funds, you should be able to save $50k+ a year and get to $2mil in ten years fairly easily barring some calamitous financial event… the likes of which seem to happen every ten years or so now!

Blissful Biker

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2023, 12:28:47 PM »
I encourage you to take the plunge and make your dream lifestyle a reality.  We moved from an urban center to a small ski resort town on the www.powderhighway.com about 12 years ago and are so glad we did.  It's been a terrific community to raise kids, develop close friendships and enjoy playing outside.  While the move probably did push my FIRE date a bit because I had to take a salary cut it was absolutely worth it.   I've now downshifted to part time work and ski 5 days a week.  Living the dream. 

I work for a global firm and the retention rate in my office is astronomically high.  Once people settle in here they never leave. 

We have very good relationships with people who are here seasonally or renting to try out the lifestyle but they aren't embraced as part of the community in the same way as true locals.  IMO, skip the test/rental phase and commit.


BiggerFishToFI

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2023, 01:15:57 PM »
Thanks for your reply's everyone. Gives us some things to think about. We've considered other locations but have visited Durango 6-7 times and covered all seasons and its the one we keep leaning towards. We need to stay in CO because of spouse's job / licensure.

You don't have to move to a mountain town for access to the outdoors. We live in Boise and our local ski resort is just 30 minutes up the mountain. We get in 40-50 days of skiing per season. There are hundreds of miles of hiking and biking trails that start a few blocks from our house. Boise isn't unique in this regard, the same can be said of Ogden, UT, Spokane, WA and other cities in the West. You can still buy houses in/near these cities for under $400k.

Yes, moving to a HCOL area will set back your plans. You have to decide for yourself if it's worth it, no one here can make that value judgement for you.

I would also recommend renting for the first year. Durango isn't just a mountain town, it's also a tourist destination. Make sure you're okay with the influx of people during peak seasons. Also, you haven't mentioned your significant other: what do they think about living in a small tourist town? Do they have experience with this? I grew up in a small-ish tourist destination and I don't miss the high prices, crowded restaurants, or driving a long distance to do more than basic shopping.

One final thought that may not even be on your radar. Review the Colorado Wildfire Risk Map for the area (https://co-pub.coloradoforestatlas.org/#/). Durango is surrounded by high risk/high intensity burn zones, which will get even worse with climate change. IMO, towns like this are primed to burn. Don't buy a house in the forest, make sure there's more than one escape route, and check fire insurance rates before you make an offer.

I've actually lived in Boise and meh. Too hot in the summer, too inverted in the winter. Local ski resort is way too crowded and doesn't get that much snow. Mountain biking and hiking in town is all the same brown foothills. Don't get me started on the politics. Overall a decent place but we've enjoyed living in Colorado more.

Good point on the fires, certainly something to consider. We want a house that is more central / walkable to grocery stores etc. which should be more insulated to fire but not to smoke.

I lived in Durango for ten years. Still visit frequently. I had the chance to move back a few years ago and did not do it. That being said, it's a great town. Having the college there is nice. Traffic, especially in the summer, is crazy. If you like outdoor stuff, you'll never lack for stuff to do. We did not go back because of several reasons. Cost was a huge factor but not the only one. As far as housing is concerned, in town is astronomical. Out of town is better but then you have the long drives to think about. Working remotely would mitigate some of that. Wages are low in town if you were to lose the remote option for jobs. It could get dicey if you dropped 7-8 hundred k on a house and then found yourself scrambling for a paycheck. Bayfield to the east is nice, but getting pricier. Cortez to the west is..meh. Ouray and Silverton are both tourist towns (and gorgeous) but still expensive and somewhat isolated. I'm with the poster that suggested renting. Try it before you buy it.

Interesting take, thanks. Where do you live now?

I encourage you to take the plunge and make your dream lifestyle a reality.  We moved from an urban center to a small ski resort town on the www.powderhighway.com about 12 years ago and are so glad we did.  It's been a terrific community to raise kids, develop close friendships and enjoy playing outside.  While the move probably did push my FIRE date a bit because I had to take a salary cut it was absolutely worth it.   I've now downshifted to part time work and ski 5 days a week.  Living the dream. 

I work for a global firm and the retention rate in my office is astronomically high.  Once people settle in here they never leave. 

We have very good relationships with people who are here seasonally or renting to try out the lifestyle but they aren't embraced as part of the community in the same way as true locals.  IMO, skip the test/rental phase and commit.

That is awesome, haven't been up there but it is on my list!

FINate

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2023, 02:11:36 PM »
I've actually lived in Boise and meh. Too hot in the summer, too inverted in the winter. Local ski resort is way too crowded and doesn't get that much snow. Mountain biking and hiking in town is all the same brown foothills. Don't get me started on the politics. Overall a decent place but we've enjoyed living in Colorado more.

Good point on the fires, certainly something to consider. We want a house that is more central / walkable to grocery stores etc. which should be more insulated to fire but not to smoke.

The great thing about being retired is that I ski mid-week and the place is empty :) Bogus Basin has extensive night skiing which is great with school age kids as we can head up after school and get in a few hours and experience an amazing sunset before dinner. Love our sweet little non-profit resort.

As for snow amount... if you didn't like Bogus you may want to double check Purgatory. So far this year Bogus has had 164" of snow with a base of 57" whereas Purgatory is at 172" with a base of 52".

It does get hot here, but I love the summer heat. Nothing like standing in a cold river fly fishing on a hot summer day. But I understand, it's not for everyone.

In town is for sure safer from fire danger, though not entirely. Look up "ember storm." With that much fuel near/around an intense wind driven fire will sweep over the entire town.

It sounds like you know what you want, so go for it, I wish you all the best and hope you find what you're looking for.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 02:14:07 PM by FINate »

BiggerFishToFI

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2023, 02:35:18 PM »
I've actually lived in Boise and meh. Too hot in the summer, too inverted in the winter. Local ski resort is way too crowded and doesn't get that much snow. Mountain biking and hiking in town is all the same brown foothills. Don't get me started on the politics. Overall a decent place but we've enjoyed living in Colorado more.

Good point on the fires, certainly something to consider. We want a house that is more central / walkable to grocery stores etc. which should be more insulated to fire but not to smoke.

The great thing about being retired is that I ski mid-week and the place is empty :) Bogus Basin has extensive night skiing which is great with school age kids as we can head up after school and get in a few hours and experience an amazing sunset before dinner. Love our sweet little non-profit resort.

As for snow amount... if you didn't like Bogus you may want to double check Purgatory. So far this year Bogus has had 164" of snow with a base of 57" whereas Purgatory is at 172" with a base of 52".

It does get hot here, but I love the summer heat. Nothing like standing in a cold river fly fishing on a hot summer day. But I understand, it's not for everyone.

In town is for sure safer from fire danger, though not entirely. Look up "ember storm." With that much fuel near/around an intense wind driven fire will sweep over the entire town.

It sounds like you know what you want, so go for it, I wish you all the best and hope you find what you're looking for.

Wasn't trying to dog on Boise too much! I do miss the Idaho rivers. SW Colorado has more of that than the front range with our polluted dried up creeks. Thanks for the best wishes.

FINate

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2023, 03:01:55 PM »
I've actually lived in Boise and meh. Too hot in the summer, too inverted in the winter. Local ski resort is way too crowded and doesn't get that much snow. Mountain biking and hiking in town is all the same brown foothills. Don't get me started on the politics. Overall a decent place but we've enjoyed living in Colorado more.

Good point on the fires, certainly something to consider. We want a house that is more central / walkable to grocery stores etc. which should be more insulated to fire but not to smoke.

The great thing about being retired is that I ski mid-week and the place is empty :) Bogus Basin has extensive night skiing which is great with school age kids as we can head up after school and get in a few hours and experience an amazing sunset before dinner. Love our sweet little non-profit resort.

As for snow amount... if you didn't like Bogus you may want to double check Purgatory. So far this year Bogus has had 164" of snow with a base of 57" whereas Purgatory is at 172" with a base of 52".

It does get hot here, but I love the summer heat. Nothing like standing in a cold river fly fishing on a hot summer day. But I understand, it's not for everyone.

In town is for sure safer from fire danger, though not entirely. Look up "ember storm." With that much fuel near/around an intense wind driven fire will sweep over the entire town.

It sounds like you know what you want, so go for it, I wish you all the best and hope you find what you're looking for.

Wasn't trying to dog on Boise too much! I do miss the Idaho rivers. SW Colorado has more of that than the front range with our polluted dried up creeks. Thanks for the best wishes.

No worries. Different strokes for different folks. My point in bringing up Boise (and other cities) was just to say that there are larger metros with hiking/biking/skiing nearby. But it's clear you want a smaller town with a mountain climate.

Statistically, as far as snow is concerned Bogus Basin and Purgatory are very similar, though Purgatory is colder so my guess is the snow stays nicer longer. When we want to change things up, and ski better snow, we head a couple hours to Tamarak (get a couple of free days with our Bogus season passes). The real powder hounds, however, are in the SLC area. Snowbird is at 456" with a 124" base!

BiggerFishToFI

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2023, 03:46:55 PM »
I've actually lived in Boise and meh. Too hot in the summer, too inverted in the winter. Local ski resort is way too crowded and doesn't get that much snow. Mountain biking and hiking in town is all the same brown foothills. Don't get me started on the politics. Overall a decent place but we've enjoyed living in Colorado more.

Good point on the fires, certainly something to consider. We want a house that is more central / walkable to grocery stores etc. which should be more insulated to fire but not to smoke.
The great thing about being retired is that I ski mid-week and the place is empty :) Bogus Basin has extensive night skiing which is great with school age kids as we can head up after school and get in a few hours and experience an amazing sunset before dinner. Love our sweet little non-profit resort.

As for snow amount... if you didn't like Bogus you may want to double check Purgatory. So far this year Bogus has had 164" of snow with a base of 57" whereas Purgatory is at 172" with a base of 52".

It does get hot here, but I love the summer heat. Nothing like standing in a cold river fly fishing on a hot summer day. But I understand, it's not for everyone.

In town is for sure safer from fire danger, though not entirely. Look up "ember storm." With that much fuel near/around an intense wind driven fire will sweep over the entire town.

It sounds like you know what you want, so go for it, I wish you all the best and hope you find what you're looking for.

Wasn't trying to dog on Boise too much! I do miss the Idaho rivers. SW Colorado has more of that than the front range with our polluted dried up creeks. Thanks for the best wishes.

No worries. Different strokes for different folks. My point in bringing up Boise (and other cities) was just to say that there are larger metros with hiking/biking/skiing nearby. But it's clear you want a smaller town with a mountain climate.

Statistically, as far as snow is concerned Bogus Basin and Purgatory are very similar, though Purgatory is colder so my guess is the snow stays nicer longer. When we want to change things up, and ski better snow, we head a couple hours to Tamarak (get a couple of free days with our Bogus season passes). The real powder hounds, however, are in the SLC area. Snowbird is at 456" with a 124" base!

Do you have a good source for the snowfall stats? Would be a good resource for us as we look at alternatives. Tamarack is cool, I rode there on their first/grand opening day ever 20 some years ago as a teen.

FINate

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2023, 04:47:46 PM »
Do you have a good source for the snowfall stats? Would be a good resource for us as we look at alternatives. Tamarack is cool, I rode there on their first/grand opening day ever 20 some years ago as a teen.

I don't have a great single source, mostly searching around resort websites and other places. Depending on the site, Bogus Basin is reported to get between 200" or 250" (the higher number from Visit Idaho) and Purgatory (via Visit Durango) is reported to be 260". Of course, this changes year to year, and with climate change. Per resort websites, Bogus Basin has 2600 acres of skiable terrain and 1800' vertical drop vs. Purgatory with 1600 acres and 2000' vertical drop.

joe189man

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Re: Can we afford a move to a mountain town?
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2023, 06:59:13 PM »
Have you made a spreadsheet looking at home and mortgage costs and investments to review the numbers?
DW and I make good money but I don’t think we could do $10k monthly mortgage payments like you would likely have to to achieve your goal
I think you can do this, but what do you think?