Author Topic: Size of emergency fund  (Read 33322 times)

Bakari

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2012, 08:55:36 PM »
not exactly, I'm assuming that an emergency won't happen in exactly two years.
It could be two years, it could be 20 years, and the longer the time frame, the more likely that an investment shows positive returns.  Especially if those investments are diversified and/or in anything that pays dividends or interest and/or broad index funds.

In your examples - lost job and/or high medical bills due to sickness or accident - the 10% penalty is waived.  So then the issue is only are you willing to lose capital in the market.
There is risk in any investment, that's true whether there is an emergency or not.  Your risk tolerance should be reflected in what you invest in. 
The market could crash right after you retire.  Or the dollar could stop being the worlds country and see hyper-inflation.  So by that reasoning no one should ever invest anything.  Any investment is going on the assumption that historical trends of positive return will continue.

I'm not saying its dumb to pick any particular course.  All investing, just like insurance, is informed gambling.  That's just the nature of the game.  What I would say is that it is important to consider the statistical likelyhood of a particular event happening, the consequences if it happened, and the consequences if it didn't happen - and to try not to let emotional fears have disproportionate weight in the decision.

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2012, 09:03:41 PM »
Just for clarification how is unemployment a qualified distribution?
DA

You weren't the one who called a cash EF dumb, that was grant
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 09:06:19 PM by Devils Advocate »

arebelspy

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2012, 10:38:58 PM »
Again, withdrawals of principal are not subject to penalty, so that's a moot point.

The fact that you may have lost money in the meantime is a good point, however, and yes, it's not a strategy for the more risk adverse.

In that case, I'd recommend a CD ladder, or even just regular CDs, and you forfeit the interest if you need to access the money right away.  Better to earn a little money and forfeit it in the case of an emergency than earn none.

You are right, DA, that having an emergency fund is not dumb.  I recommend it to many, many people.  I think it's unnecessary (and a bit wasteful) for an advanced Mustachian, however.  It does indeed depend on your circumstances, your post a few posts up is well put, I don't disagree.  Thanks for clarifying your position.
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gooki

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2012, 02:23:29 AM »
Lets all attribute "Big Emergency Funds are Dumb" to the right person.

MMM has posted about having a spongeable emergency fund, here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/02/22/reader-case-study-getting-blood-from-a-stone/

He unequivocally states, in the comments: "Mr. Money Mustache is not backing down on this one. BIG EMERGENCY FUNDS ARE DUMB!!"

grantmeaname

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2012, 06:50:08 AM »
He knows, he was just choosing to ignore that for the sake of making a stronger ad hominem attack against me. In fact, the only place I used the word "dumb", I used it in a sentence directly attributing it to MMM. But he's willing to ignore that for the sake of a good argument.

Further, I didn't say all cash emergency funds are dumb. I'm with arebelspy, for less advanced individuals a few thousand in cash could be a great idea. I said big cash emergency funds are dumb for people with high savings rates, stable jobs, dual income households, medical insurance...

So far, you haven't said anything to contradict that statement other than repeating over and over again that you'd have to take a penalty in circumstances that we've repeatedly demonstrated that you wouldn't.

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2012, 12:03:09 PM »
Grant,

Please link to the IRS website on ROTH's whether or not contributions are exempt from penalty. They may be, however no one here has proven this yet.

To call big EF is dumb across the board is an inflammatory statement meant to spark controversy, i.e. increase readership.  I'm okay with that.  It's MMM's blog and that's his perogative.  You and Arepelsby reiterated the comment thus affirming it.  Calling someone's asset allocation "dumb" is an inflammatory statement and you should expect to offend some. I was a bit offended.  So I flipped you a bit of shit.

Calling those folks with a more conservative asset allocation than your's LESS ADVANCED is an inflammatory statement as well. So expect some push back.

Plus as stated above I don't even qualify for a ROTH!  So how can my situation be considered less advanced than yours?  WTF?
DA

Does anyone else think there's a RECENCY BIAS here?  Using levarage for real estate is one reason we are in this morass of a situation.  Would you use leverage for stock buying too? 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 12:29:25 PM by Devils Advocate »

grantmeaname

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2012, 12:31:44 PM »
Please link to the IRS website on ROTH's whether or not contributions are exempt from penalty. They may be, however no one here has proven this yet.
Done. That took less than 30 seconds. Principal is not subject to penalty! For fuck's sake, it's not! Arebelspy has said it, I've said it, Bakari's said it, and you've acknowledged it repeatedly. So why are you acting like nobody's told you that yet?

Quote from: Devils Advocate
Calling those folks with a more conservative asset allocation than your's LESS ADVANCED is an inflammatory statement as well. So expect some push back.
That's not what I said. I said, if you're not advanced at personal finance (that is, Dave Ramsey's target market, or Suze Orman's, for example), then keeping a small cash emergency fund is a good idea. My use of the word dumb was in summary, not for inflammation. Let me reiterate, I've made actual, substantive points which you're now ignoring because you'd rather bitch about semantics than talk finance. I said "here are a bunch of conditions, which together combine to make most people poorly served by a big cash emergency fund". Then, instead of arguing with my conditions, you got pissed and attacked me for calling you not advanced, which for the record I didn't do. Let's look at what I said:
Quote from: grantmeaname
I didn't say all cash emergency funds are dumb. I'm with arebelspy, for less advanced individuals a few thousand in cash could be a great idea. I said big cash emergency funds are dumb for people with high savings rates, stable jobs, dual income households, medical insurance...

The "less advanced individuals" is a condition for "keeping cash is a great idea". That does not equate to the logical converse, that "keeping cash" implies you're a "less advanced individual".

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Plus as stated above I don't even qualify for a ROTH!  So how can my situation be considered less advanced than yours?  WTF?
I didn't say your situation was less advanced than mine. Learn to read before you start yelling, you'll come out looking more intelligent at the end. And, as has already been noted in the thread, you can backdoor 401k contributions into a Roth IRA. Everyone can get for a Roth, hooray! If you prefer to accept a loss each year equal to the annual inflation rate rather than risk capital losses by needing to liquidate assets during a downturn emergency, that's your prerogative. I don't choose it, but you're perfectly welcome to.

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2012, 12:47:50 PM »
Sorry Grant,
I really was referring to Arepelsby calling some with an EF less advanced.

Do you allocate a 100% stock/real estate asset allocation?

Most would have stocks/bonds/real estate/cash equivalents.

To say that a more conservative allocation is less advanced as some have stated above is what I am railing against.  A 19 year old SHOULD have a more aggressive allocation than let's say a 40 year old with a family. 

DA

by the way that's the same link I used.  the contributions are not penalized in the year you put them in...Please highlight the section you are referring to.  I really am not interested in heresay, I want to see the exact quote about the contribution. I'm not saying you are wrong I want to SEE it.

Here's what I see:
Exceptions

There are several exceptions to the age 59 rule. Even if you receive a distribution before you are age 59, you may not have to pay the 10% additional tax if you are in one of the following situations.

    You have unreimbursed medical expenses that are more than 7.5% of your adjusted gross income.

    The distributions are not more than the cost of your medical insurance.

    You are disabled.

    You are the beneficiary of a deceased IRA owner.

    You are receiving distributions in the form of an annuity.

    The distributions are not more than your qualified higher education expenses.

    You use the distributions to buy, build, or rebuild a first home.

    The distribution is due to an IRS levy of the qualified plan.

    The distribution is a qualified reservist distribution.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 12:57:56 PM by Devils Advocate »

grantmeaname

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2012, 01:02:19 PM »
I really was referring to Arepelsby calling some with an EF less advanced.
I think you may be misreading him. He's said much the same thing in several other threads. What he means is he advises his friends who aren't advanced at personal finance (again, the Ramsey/Orman crowd) to keep a small emergency fund. I can look for a couple examples if you'd like, but the point is he's saying that they are good tools for novices, not that having an emergency fund makes you a novice.

Quote
Do you allocate a 100% stock/real estate asset allocation?
Most would have stocks/bonds/real estate/cash equivalents.
To say that a more conservative allocation is less advanced as some have stated above is what I am railing against.  A 19 year old SHOULD have a more aggressive allocation than let's say a 40 year old with a family. 
If I have this right in my head, intelligent asset location would tell you to put your risky investments in post-tax vehicle like a Roth and your conservative investments in a tax deferred vehicle like a regular 401k or IRA. That said, if you really dread taking a loss in the portion of the Roth that's an emergency fund, it may be better to also keep something more steady like bonds, TIPS, or cash in the Roth up to the amount you want to use for emergencies, and only using risky investments for any remainder that may exist.

I have a ton of capacity for risk. Even so, my portfolio if I ever am in the position of having money (i.e., not as a college student) is going to balance domestic and international stocks with bonds. Despite my risk capacity, I have little appetite for risk and and insane amount of debt aversion... definitely, I won't be using a whole ton of leverage. Unless I find a more optimal strategy for me personally, I want to pay down a mortgage quickly and own my home outright, and pay off any other debt that I may acquire even if it is more expensive to do so than invest the difference. That's not so different than keeping it in cash, really. It's just the way that my finances will sit right with me personally.

by the way that's the same link I used.  the contributions are not penalized in the year you put them in...Please highlight the section you are referring to.  I really am not interested in heresay, I want to see the exact quote about the contribution.
This image. Bottom right corner. "The portion of the distribution allocable to earnings may be subject to tax". That is, the portion of the distribution not allocable to earnings, the portion of the distribution that's principal, isn't subject to tax. It's a little bit in legalese, to be fair.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 01:07:02 PM by grantmeaname »

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #59 on: May 14, 2012, 01:11:24 PM »
Okay. 

I can see how that could represent no penalty on contributions.  Fair enough.

I am also paying off my mortgage.  I think the missed earnings in a more stock oriented portfolio will be unneeded for me to reach FI soon. 

My goal is not necessarily to make the most possible money, but to reach FI.  To me, the mortgage payoff is not just a "warm squishy" feeling, but actual reduction in the years I MUST WORK. I basically use this portion of my portfolio to represent "bonds" and have the vast majority in stocks/real estate still.  So I don't see missed earnings from using funds to payoff mortgage as lost.

DA

Thanks.



arebelspy

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2012, 04:33:56 PM »
Re: Roth withdrawing principal: It's not just the image, but the very first sentence of Grant's link.

Quote
You generally do not include in your gross income qualified distributions or distributions that are a return of your regular contributions from your Roth IRA(s).

This sentence as well:
Quote
The withdrawal of contributions is tax free, but you must include the earnings on the contributions in income for the year in which you made the contributions.

DA: Don't be so quick to take offense.  I agree with grant, doing something that is an advanced move (i.e. risky but can be rewarding, one must know what they're doing) does not make one "unadvanced" if they don't do it.  Relax, take a breath, and realize that people will do things differently, and you don't have to take offense at that.  :)
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arebelspy

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2012, 04:45:24 PM »
My goal is not necessarily to make the most possible money, but to reach FI.  To me, the mortgage payoff is not just a "warm squishy" feeling, but actual reduction in the years I MUST WORK.

My goal is the same, to reach FI.  I don't care about making money.  However, I'd like to reach FI as soon as possible, so I'd rather do things the mathematically optimal way, which does mean making the most possible money (for now) to reach FI quicker.

My goal is not necessarily to make the most possible money, but to reach FI.  To me, the mortgage payoff is not just a "warm squishy" feeling, but actual reduction in the years I MUST WORK.

To me, not paying off the mortgage and accumulating money quicker means I hit FI quicker (and can then pay it off if I want), which DOES give me a warm squishy feeling, and gives an even faster reduction in the years I must work.

Just a different way to approach it.
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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2012, 08:38:37 PM »
DA: Don't be so quick to take offense.  I agree with grant, doing something that is an advanced move (i.e. risky but can be rewarding, one must know what they're doing) does not make one "unadvanced" if they don't do it.  Relax, take a breath, and realize that people will do things differently, and you don't have to take offense at that.  :)

DA - It might help to remember that while the term "advanced" certainly puts a positive spin on a technique, that doesn't make it a good idea in all circumstances. Day trading options is an advanced move as well, that doesn't make it a good idea.

It reminds me of some of the bands DH has played in. Beginner guitarists and drummers struggle just to play all the notes and beats at the right time. Good musicians can play all the notes and beats, and can also improvise a bit and play a nice loud, complicated solo when their time comes. But the truly excellent musicians, the ones that are a joy to play with, are those that can not only do all that, but know when is the appropriate time for it and when to play quietly and blend in. They have a quiet confidence, and they don't have to "prove" their worth with unnecessary volume and complexity - though they can and do when the timing is right.

Other commenters are (we assume for the benefit of the doubt) in appropriate solo moments - stable jobs, multi-income households, good health, high risk-tolerance. That they recommend certain techniques to less advanced friends doesn't mean those techniques are bad. A beginner and a professional guitarist might play the same melody at times but for different reasons - the beginner because that's all they can do, the professional because they know its the right move for the time.

arebelspy

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2012, 09:22:04 PM »
Wow, what a great analogy AJ, and I completely agree with the last line.  It may indeed be be the correct move and time for some individuals to pay down student loans, or mortgage, or have a large emergency fund, be they beginner or advanced.
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Dicey

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #64 on: May 15, 2012, 12:31:26 AM »
Wow! Love all the conversation here. Is there an age/size of EF ratio happening here? Young and eager tend to be positive they need less. Older (and wiser??) know that life occasionally hands out shit sandwiches and choose to be prepared should another one be delivered.
So yes, we did have a little verbal sparring today, but so far I am very impressed with the relative courtesy and above average FI (I for Intelligence) of the MMM crowd. Kudos to Mr. & Mrs. MMM for making this wonderful forum happen. Now everyone go and play outside until dinnertime.

grantmeaname

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #65 on: May 15, 2012, 07:11:21 AM »
It stays nice and courteous until people show up and call all young people unwise in what was otherwise a productive and pleasant conversation.
You can't write half a post applauding how respectful the conversants are being, then use the other half to denigrate people who disagree with you.

jpo

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #66 on: May 15, 2012, 08:49:29 AM »
Wow! Love all the conversation here. Is there an age/size of EF ratio happening here? Young and eager tend to be positive they need less. Older (and wiser??) know that life occasionally hands out shit sandwiches and choose to be prepared should another one be delivered.
Not necessarily, I am only 24 and keep ~$10k sitting in cash for an emergency. Maybe $10k is small by some of you old geezers' standards, but it's a good chunk of change for us youngun's. Sounds like it's more than some of the older posters' cash reserves.

James

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2012, 09:06:13 AM »
Wow! Love all the conversation here. Is there an age/size of EF ratio happening here? Young and eager tend to be positive they need less. Older (and wiser??) know that life occasionally hands out shit sandwiches and choose to be prepared should another one be delivered.

I would almost expect the opposite.  While younger people are certainly eager to get the money invested and working for them, they often need the reserve for the greater range of potential emergencies due to kids, mortgage, tighter cash flow, etc.  As people get older I'd expect things to be more stable with less emergency potential and more skill developed at making things work in an emergency.

But in the end I think the issue is too tied up in the million variable between each and every situation, along with the huge variable of risk tolerance and comfort level.  Everyone just need to use sound judgement in determining what is best for themselves.

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2012, 09:17:24 AM »
Grant,

I am sorry I called you Naive.  Like I said in another post I was reacting to the blanket statement that large EF's were "dumb".   That is an inflammatory statement and usually I react negatively to those who call my methods "dumb".  To be fair you weren't the first (or the last) to state that however you were the last one to state it when I went "postal".

A 19 year old typically hasn't been around long enough or have had enough life experiences to be a good resource for financial advice.  You are certainly further along in financial IQ than I was at your age, so you should be applauded.  Your input is helplful obviously and I welcome different viewpoints.  You and I both should be tolerant of others methods.  There are more than one one way to become FI.

So I apologize for giving you some shit earlier.  Hopefully we can contribute to this forum in a reasonable and courteous way in the future.

DA

grantmeaname

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2012, 09:56:48 AM »
Grant...
Since our little spat, I think you and I have been having a perfectly pleasant conversation that's been productive for everyone involved. I'm totally tolerant of your choices, as we discussed above, even though they may not be the ones I would make.

What I'm frustrated about is that someone else has come into the thread after so much productive progress has been made and contributed such an unhelpful comment as "This is a great thread. But young people are unwise because they don't understand that bad things can happen in life". It does everyone a disservice to stereotype so thoroughly, for one. For two, nobody in the thread had even been talking about what she brought up... she's brought in another conversation she was having elsewhere in order to try and start a fire here.

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2012, 12:01:49 PM »
I haven't seen this discussed here, but it seemed relevant because people were talking about earning tiny interest rates on cash balances for Emergency Funds.

I keep my EF in a rewards checking account and I earn 3% interest on any balance up to $15k in return for doing 10 debit card transactions per month and having my statements received electronically.

It's not huge but it at least keeps up with inflation, as opposed to most of the other savings/CD products out there. 

Once a month I log into Verizon's site and pay for my internet bill in 10 separate transactions.  Takes me just a few minutes and then I don't have to worry about meeting the transacton requirement.

This seems like the ideal Mustachian method for earning a few extra bucks on emergency fund money that is otherwise sitting around, losing value to inflation. 

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2012, 01:25:36 PM »
I haven't seen this discussed here, but it seemed relevant because people were talking about earning tiny interest rates on cash balances for Emergency Funds.

I keep my EF in a rewards checking account and I earn 3% interest on any balance up to $15k in return for doing 10 debit card transactions per month and having my statements received electronically.

It's not huge but it at least keeps up with inflation, as opposed to most of the other savings/CD products out there. 

Once a month I log into Verizon's site and pay for my internet bill in 10 separate transactions.  Takes me just a few minutes and then I don't have to worry about meeting the transacton requirement.

This seems like the ideal Mustachian method for earning a few extra bucks on emergency fund money that is otherwise sitting around, losing value to inflation.


That is pretty impressive, what bank is that?

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2012, 01:37:11 PM »
That is pretty impressive, what bank is that?

Lake Michigan Credit Union. 

You can find a listing of banks offering high yield reward checking accounts, along with info on their requirements, here:
http://www.depositaccounts.com/checking/reward-checking-accounts.html

Lake Michigan was easy to join, just had to make a $5 donation to their local ALS fund.
Here is the specific info on Lake Michigan:
http://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/2012/05/updated-review-of-lake-michigan-credit-unions-max-checking.html

You'll notice that there is 1 bank listed with a higher rate than LMCU - that's Consumers Credit Union.  They are dropping their rate in June, so don't bother.  Looks like there is one other bank paying 3% right now.

Most of the banks on this list also refund ATM fees, so it doesn't matter if you're not local to them (I actually live in Massachusetts, so I'm not local to LMCU)

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2012, 01:59:57 PM »
Thanks AJ for your analogy. Certainly a different and interesting perspective. I appreciate the idea!

DA

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2012, 02:27:14 PM »
I keep my EF in a rewards checking account and I earn 3% interest on any balance up to $15k in return for doing 10 debit card transactions per month and having my statements received electronically.

This is a good way to get a better rate if you don't mind changing banks every year or so. Reward checking accounts are designed to hook you in, then lower the rate. For me personally, I don't keep enough money in savings to out-weigh the hassle of watching my transactions and changing banks every year. Plus if I miss a bill in the transition I'll end up with a late or NSF fee, negating all my efforts. But for folks willing to put out the effort, it's worth looking into. Side benefit: you'll build relationships with multiple financial institutions, which might prove handy in the future.

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #75 on: May 15, 2012, 03:08:40 PM »
This is a good way to get a better rate if you don't mind changing banks every year or so. Reward checking accounts are designed to hook you in, then lower the rate. For me personally, I don't keep enough money in savings to out-weigh the hassle of watching my transactions and changing banks every year. Plus if I miss a bill in the transition I'll end up with a late or NSF fee, negating all my efforts. But for folks willing to put out the effort, it's worth looking into. Side benefit: you'll build relationships with multiple financial institutions, which might prove handy in the future.

I've had LMCU for awhile now and while they dropped from 4% to 3% last year, they're still one of the highest out there so I have not had to switch my account since I opened it in January 2011.  The depositaccounts.com site shows the rate history of the various accounts so you can evaluate if different banks have kept the rate high consistently.

It literally takes me 5 minutes a month to do the 10 transactions and I don't have to think about it, and I earn an extra $10-$20 a month for my troubles (depending on how much cash I am keeping in my emergency fund).  I can see why most people don't want the hassle, but I would think Mustachians would be all about something like this.  The money definitely adds up over time. 



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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2012, 07:00:10 PM »
Dear Grantmeaname,
I would politely ask you to re-read my comments. I would also politely request that if you quote something that someone else has written (indicated by the use of quotation marks), then please make it an actual quote, not your own words.

A forum is a free exchange of ideas, not a private two-way conversation. Things were getting heated and surprisingly unkind things were being said yesterday. I had hoped to add a calm voice to the discussion, to offer some positive reinforcement and even add a tiny bit of wry humor to the discussion. If I may quote myself accurately, I said "Older (and wiser??)". By using parenthesis and two question marks, I intended to show that older does not necessarily mean wiser. Not to denigrate all old(er) people, I just don't consider myself to be as wise as I could be, nor as old as I hope to become :-))

I completely respect your decision not to keep a large EF. It's your choice. I am not stating that either viewpoint is right or wrong, just different. This is not stereotyping, it's an observation. What works for you works for you. I do not expect to change anyone's position, just share my view from where I stand in the world, just as you have from your own vantage point.

There is cross pollination in almost all threads with more than a few replies. It's fun to watch how some meander before eventually returning to the subject at hand. In this thread, for example, we're all now learning about LCMU, which as far as I can tell, has very little to do with "size of emergency fund". It looks like it could be an interesting option for where to 'stache said funds, for those who elect to have them.

grantmeaname

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #77 on: May 16, 2012, 12:04:55 PM »
What you said is that older, wiser people understand that life can hand out shit sandwiches sometimes. Not that people understand that, but that older, wiser people understand that. Considering you jumped into the middle of a mature and productive conversation about risk appetite and risk tolerance with conversants of all ages represented, and made a sweeping generalization that young people don't understand that emergencies exist, I feel like I and other younger posters are pretty badly misrepresented by your stereotype.

And where do you get this bit about my decision not to keep a large emergency fund? I don't believe I've said that anywhere in this thread or elsewhere. Again, you say you're not stereotyping and then throw in a stereotype that I'm against risk preparedness because I'm young.

James

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #78 on: May 16, 2012, 02:10:18 PM »
Older (and wiser??) know that life occasionally hands out shit sandwiches and choose to be prepared should another one be delivered.

I would agree that the implication I got from this statement was that younger people may unwisely choose to not have a large EF because they are young and haven't been through hard times.  I took it as a sutle dig at those who don't advocate a large EF.

Edited to add:  I agree with arebelspy that I didn't see offense intended in the comment, it was sincere and meant to be lighthearted.  I just thought it fair to point out how it came across.  I certainly don't want this place to be timid, I think we should all expect to be tweaked, intended or not, and not take offense.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:07:15 PM by James »

arebelspy

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #79 on: May 16, 2012, 06:01:17 PM »
I'm okay with subtle digs, even at positions I agree with. We all get a little snarky sometimes, and while I read that comment the same as James, it's not as rude (IMO) as directly callin someone naive.

Nevertheless, it's clear Diane didn't really intend it the way it sounded.
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Dicey

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #80 on: May 16, 2012, 10:49:14 PM »
What Grant says I said: "What you said is that older, wiser people understand that life can hand out shit sandwiches sometimes."

What I actually said was: "Older (and wiser??) know that life occasionally hands out shit sandwiches".
Later, I clarified: "Older (and wiser??)". By using parenthesis and two question marks, I intended to show that older does not necessarily mean wiser."

Another quote from Grant "And where do you get this bit about my decision not to keep a large emergency fund?" I ask, respectfully, what makes you think I was talking about you? Are you the only "young and eager" person who participates in these forums? If you are not a person who lacks belief in the value of a large (or even large-ish) EF, why would you include yourself in that group? Methinks you may occasionally feel you are not being taken seriously because of your age. I think you write well, have interesting ideas, and are viewing this whole exchange through your own lens, as we all do. I really don't give a damn how old you are. I care about your ideas and how you present them, not what year is on your birth certificate. Apparently, I also care about being quoted accurately.

grantmeaname

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2012, 06:20:19 AM »
Dear Grantmeaname,
...
I completely respect your decision not to keep a large EF. It's your choice. I am not stating that either viewpoint is right or wrong, just different. This is not stereotyping, it's an observation. What works for you works for you. I do not expect to change anyone's position, just share my view from where I stand in the world, just as you have from your own vantage point.
That seems like a pretty direct statement towards me, doesn't it? I don't know of any other way to read it...

Dicey

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2012, 07:31:43 AM »
Only if you can't just 'cashflow' your emergencies and you can't tap home equity with a HELOC. If I'm saving $2500 a month, it makes an emergency fund much less necessary. And if I can take out equity, spend it on my emergency, and pay it back instead of saving for the next 2 or 3 months, what's the purpose of a big e-fund?

I'm with MMM, big e-funds are dumb.

And where do you get this bit about my decision not to keep a large emergency fund? I don't believe I've said that anywhere in this thread or elsewhere. Again, you say you're not stereotyping and then throw in a stereotype that I'm against risk preparedness because I'm young.

Wow! I think I'm finally getting the hang of this quote thing. Thanks to all who offered suggestions.

arebelspy

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Re: Size of emergency fund
« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2012, 07:47:21 AM »
I'm gonna go ahead and lock this topic.  I think we're going around in circles about minor personal squabbles and something not even relevant to the original topic, or Mustachianism.

Anyone interested in continuing the conversation can PM the party they wish to discuss with, or myself.

Feel free to start a new thread on the original topic (size of emergency fund) if you feel you have more to say on that topic (in general, not any individual person's view on it).

Feel free to PM me if you disagree.

Cheers!
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.