Author Topic: Side gig employer pushing DW around  (Read 1464 times)

FIRE47

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Side gig employer pushing DW around
« on: August 27, 2018, 07:44:52 AM »
This is a side hustle involving teaching a college course.

A few years ago it made sense but now the money just isn't there to make it worthwhile with how busy we are at our FT jobs, we also have other side gigs that make more sense.

Long story short Old Boss #1 kept calling DW every few semesters seeing if the was available again however she was respectfully declining these offers. In time they must have realized that giving people low hours to keep them off the union grid won't attract experienced people in the field for 4 paid "class" per week, so they offered her an opportunity to take on 8 "class" hours with the stated purpose to bump her into the union and effectively make her rate of pay ~2-2.5x more plus twice the hours - suddenly it all made financial sense again.

Fast forward 4 months and Old Boss #1 is no longer with the organization due to "restructuring" although DW was never informed and was trying to contact her for a few months to no avail for course information, text book, a contract etc so she could prep in advance. Eventually after weeks of being bounced around trying to figure out what was going on she is given contact information for New Boss #2. New Boss #2 offers only 4 hours instead of the 8 which were promised, just a week before the courses were slated to start thus bringing the offer back down to the same offer that hasn't made sense for some time now.  I advise DW to decline the offer as this is the same offer she had declined before and like always still did not make sense. DW writes a polite withdrawal letter of her interest (they still had not had her sign anything, or given her the information she needed to properly prepare).

New Boss #2 fires back with a snarky reply basically referencing how bad it is withdraw at the last minute, a backhanded comment about how given the specific course being taught she should know numbers enough to understand why everyone has to be bumped into one class for business reasons.
 
My questions are this:

Do you even reply to this response? New Boss #2 left it somewhat open ended that a response was required

Is there any legal issues to withdrawing from an informal offer that was made by email 5 months ago and then materially changed for the worse?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 07:49:58 AM by FIRE47 »

PoutineLover

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2018, 07:49:54 AM »
Do you have the initial offer for the 8 hours in writing? If so, I'd attach the letter saying she'd be happy to do the job attached, but at less than 50% she is no longer interested. If you got a full time job offer and then when you went in to sign they said, well actually, it's only 15 hours a week, you'd be fully within your rights to decline, since that's not what you signed up for. They can either offer the full amount, or find someone else to do the job. She may end up severing ties with the college over this, but it seems like that job is no longer worth it so it shouldn't matter too much.

magnet18

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2018, 09:16:34 AM »
If they're already aware you're declining because the offer was cut in half, just walk away and never look back.  If that's not clear to them, reply explaining why you're not interested, and then walk away and never look back.  Sounds like you've got no legal obligation whatsoever.

Even if they come up to 8 hours, it's not worth it. 
Some of the best advice ever given to me, "life is too short to work for a dick"

HipGnosis

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2018, 10:31:56 AM »
Nope, no legal issue.
The offer changed, which requires the answer to change.  It does require an answer (reply).
You (plural) now know 'they' expect people to "understand" when they change things with very short notice.  More than reason enough to decline.

lbmustache

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2018, 10:59:39 AM »
No legal issues.

No response.

Typical adjunct BS. Your spouse is correct to leave if the offer does not make sense.

FIRE47

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2018, 11:05:53 AM »
If they're already aware you're declining because the offer was cut in half, just walk away and never look back.  If that's not clear to them, reply explaining why you're not interested, and then walk away and never look back.  Sounds like you've got no legal obligation whatsoever.

Even if they come up to 8 hours, it's not worth it. 
Some of the best advice ever given to me, "life is too short to work for a dick"

My thoughts as well.

Go ahead and make the business case as to why you had to cut her hours and pay - but don't expect her to want the position anymore.

mm1970

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2018, 11:32:28 AM »
Unlike some others above, I would actually respectfully respond.

It may not make a difference.

You see, I have left a job before due to certain practices - namely, low pay.  I worked for a company for 8 years that had low-ish pay, and like many companies - were stingy on the promotions and pay raises... so much easier to hire people at market rate rather than pay the people you have.  It's a thing.

But the problem is, there were a few years where they had so much turnover (50%?) and NOBODY, in their exit interview, had the balls to say it was about money. 

I said "it's the money".  Because - they need to face that.  Whether the organization does anything, it's up to them.

If you say nothing, nothing will happen.
If you say something, maybe nothing will happen.


If your wife clearly states:
"I have been turning down these requests for a few years because it makes no financial sense to do X amount of work for Y dollars.  However, this year, Boss #1 offered 2x the hours for 2.5x the pay - suddenly, it made more financial sense to take on the additional work. 

You have now cut the offer back to the original - the one that I turned down over and over.  It is STILL not worth the money.  It is not my fault that you are now in a bind.  I was interested in offer A, not offer B."

A clear response tells Boss #2 that:
1.  You are not being an asshat - you had a specific offer
2.  You have a clear definition of what is "worth the work"

FIRE47

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2018, 12:05:09 PM »
Unlike some others above, I would actually respectfully respond.

It may not make a difference.

You see, I have left a job before due to certain practices - namely, low pay.  I worked for a company for 8 years that had low-ish pay, and like many companies - were stingy on the promotions and pay raises... so much easier to hire people at market rate rather than pay the people you have.  It's a thing.

But the problem is, there were a few years where they had so much turnover (50%?) and NOBODY, in their exit interview, had the balls to say it was about money. 

I said "it's the money".  Because - they need to face that.  Whether the organization does anything, it's up to them.

If you say nothing, nothing will happen.
If you say something, maybe nothing will happen.


If your wife clearly states:
"I have been turning down these requests for a few years because it makes no financial sense to do X amount of work for Y dollars.  However, this year, Boss #1 offered 2x the hours for 2.5x the pay - suddenly, it made more financial sense to take on the additional work. 

You have now cut the offer back to the original - the one that I turned down over and over.  It is STILL not worth the money.  It is not my fault that you are now in a bind.  I was interested in offer A, not offer B."

A clear response tells Boss #2 that:
1.  You are not being an asshat - you had a specific offer
2.  You have a clear definition of what is "worth the work"

I 100% agree - this was already done as politely and professionally as possible although also very clearly as to what the issue was. It was in a few more words but almost exactly the same as you recommended above.

My question about responding was if we bother to respond again to his semi-rude response to that original letter to turn down the offer by DW.

The response was a mix of rudeness (a backhanded slap to my DWs knowledge on the subject matter) but also attempting to make her feel bad about doing this last minute.


RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2018, 12:43:42 PM »
Unlike some others above, I would actually respectfully respond.

It may not make a difference.

You see, I have left a job before due to certain practices - namely, low pay.  I worked for a company for 8 years that had low-ish pay, and like many companies - were stingy on the promotions and pay raises... so much easier to hire people at market rate rather than pay the people you have.  It's a thing.

But the problem is, there were a few years where they had so much turnover (50%?) and NOBODY, in their exit interview, had the balls to say it was about money. 

I said "it's the money".  Because - they need to face that.  Whether the organization does anything, it's up to them.

If you say nothing, nothing will happen.
If you say something, maybe nothing will happen.


If your wife clearly states:
"I have been turning down these requests for a few years because it makes no financial sense to do X amount of work for Y dollars.  However, this year, Boss #1 offered 2x the hours for 2.5x the pay - suddenly, it made more financial sense to take on the additional work. 

You have now cut the offer back to the original - the one that I turned down over and over.  It is STILL not worth the money.  It is not my fault that you are now in a bind.  I was interested in offer A, not offer B."

A clear response tells Boss #2 that:
1.  You are not being an asshat - you had a specific offer
2.  You have a clear definition of what is "worth the work"

I 100% agree - this was already done as politely and professionally as possible although also very clearly as to what the issue was. It was in a few more words but almost exactly the same as you recommended above.

My question about responding was if we bother to respond again to his semi-rude response to that original letter to turn down the offer by DW.

The response was a mix of rudeness (a backhanded slap to my DWs knowledge on the subject matter) but also attempting to make her feel bad about doing this last minute.

Then I'd respond with, "It's not my fault you changed the offer last minute.  It's yours.  You need to own that."

kitty_boos

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2018, 01:28:30 PM »
Unlike some others above, I would actually respectfully respond.

It may not make a difference.

You see, I have left a job before due to certain practices - namely, low pay.  I worked for a company for 8 years that had low-ish pay, and like many companies - were stingy on the promotions and pay raises... so much easier to hire people at market rate rather than pay the people you have.  It's a thing.

But the problem is, there were a few years where they had so much turnover (50%?) and NOBODY, in their exit interview, had the balls to say it was about money. 

I said "it's the money".  Because - they need to face that.  Whether the organization does anything, it's up to them.

If you say nothing, nothing will happen.
If you say something, maybe nothing will happen.


If your wife clearly states:
"I have been turning down these requests for a few years because it makes no financial sense to do X amount of work for Y dollars.  However, this year, Boss #1 offered 2x the hours for 2.5x the pay - suddenly, it made more financial sense to take on the additional work. 

You have now cut the offer back to the original - the one that I turned down over and over.  It is STILL not worth the money.  It is not my fault that you are now in a bind.  I was interested in offer A, not offer B."

A clear response tells Boss #2 that:
1.  You are not being an asshat - you had a specific offer
2.  You have a clear definition of what is "worth the work"

I 100% agree - this was already done as politely and professionally as possible although also very clearly as to what the issue was. It was in a few more words but almost exactly the same as you recommended above.

My question about responding was if we bother to respond again to his semi-rude response to that original letter to turn down the offer by DW.

The response was a mix of rudeness (a backhanded slap to my DWs knowledge on the subject matter) but also attempting to make her feel bad about doing this last minute.

In light of this then I would not waste my time responding again since you already made it clear why she decided to now decline the offer.  His response appears childish and petty and there would be nothing to be gained from responding to that.


mm1970

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2018, 01:33:36 PM »
Unlike some others above, I would actually respectfully respond.

It may not make a difference.

You see, I have left a job before due to certain practices - namely, low pay.  I worked for a company for 8 years that had low-ish pay, and like many companies - were stingy on the promotions and pay raises... so much easier to hire people at market rate rather than pay the people you have.  It's a thing.

But the problem is, there were a few years where they had so much turnover (50%?) and NOBODY, in their exit interview, had the balls to say it was about money. 

I said "it's the money".  Because - they need to face that.  Whether the organization does anything, it's up to them.

If you say nothing, nothing will happen.
If you say something, maybe nothing will happen.


If your wife clearly states:
"I have been turning down these requests for a few years because it makes no financial sense to do X amount of work for Y dollars.  However, this year, Boss #1 offered 2x the hours for 2.5x the pay - suddenly, it made more financial sense to take on the additional work. 

You have now cut the offer back to the original - the one that I turned down over and over.  It is STILL not worth the money.  It is not my fault that you are now in a bind.  I was interested in offer A, not offer B."

A clear response tells Boss #2 that:
1.  You are not being an asshat - you had a specific offer
2.  You have a clear definition of what is "worth the work"

I 100% agree - this was already done as politely and professionally as possible although also very clearly as to what the issue was. It was in a few more words but almost exactly the same as you recommended above.

My question about responding was if we bother to respond again to his semi-rude response to that original letter to turn down the offer by DW.

The response was a mix of rudeness (a backhanded slap to my DWs knowledge on the subject matter) but also attempting to make her feel bad about doing this last minute.

Then I'd respond with, "It's not my fault you changed the offer last minute.  It's yours.  You need to own that."
Yep.

Maybe he just wanted to get the last word. Sometimes, you feel like letting them, sometimes you don't.

Lady SA

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2018, 01:35:17 PM »
I 100% agree - this was already done as politely and professionally as possible although also very clearly as to what the issue was. It was in a few more words but almost exactly the same as you recommended above.

My question about responding was if we bother to respond again to his semi-rude response to that original letter to turn down the offer by DW.

The response was a mix of rudeness (a backhanded slap to my DWs knowledge on the subject matter) but also attempting to make her feel bad about doing this last minute.

Then I would respond in a very curt but still respectful way and make it clear your DW won't be budged by guilting, and putting the situation into black and white to show this new boss just how ridiculous his request is.

"I accepted a job on Date with X hours for Y pay. Changing the job to A Hours with B pay simply doesn't work for me. Have a good day."

You can repeat that ad nausuem as long or as little as you like, but once more couldn't hurt and might help your wife feel a bit better to not let that jerkface boss have the "last word", if that makes sense.

historienne

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2018, 02:28:08 PM »
This is, unfortunately, common in higher ed.  The guy is pissed because now he has to scramble to find someone else to teach this class for peanuts, and he's not getting paid all that much either, and this is the busiest time of the year, and he's just taking it out on your wife.  But your wife is in the right, and he knows it, or at least should know it.  Departments get away with this stuff because there are too many desperate adjuncts out there hoping that if they stay in the good graces of the department chair, eventually they'll get a real job.  Luckily, your wife is not desperate. 

He'll probably ask again next semester.


FIRE47

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2018, 02:43:21 PM »
This is, unfortunately, common in higher ed.  The guy is pissed because now he has to scramble to find someone else to teach this class for peanuts, and he's not getting paid all that much either, and this is the busiest time of the year, and he's just taking it out on your wife.  But your wife is in the right, and he knows it, or at least should know it.  Departments get away with this stuff because there are too many desperate adjuncts out there hoping that if they stay in the good graces of the department chair, eventually they'll get a real job.  Luckily, your wife is not desperate. 

He'll probably ask again next semester.

Yea that's the sense that I get - they can just push most people around at these places. The trouble is that they want experienced people working full-time in the field for some programs and these guys don't seem to understand that s*** ain't going to fly in a lot of those cases.

The new boss likely doesn't know the story of how hard it is to find someone of quality for this course and came in - saw a way to get a quick win and bust someone down from the union and slash their pay (as if no one would have thought of that before), and now it has backfired.

Gondolin

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Re: Side gig employer pushing DW around
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2018, 07:58:42 AM »
I believe Big Sean said it best:

Quote
Bitch, I got no feelings to go
I swear I had it up to here, I got no ceilings to go
I mean for real, fuck how you feel
Fuck your two cents if it ain't goin' towards the bill, yeah
And everyday I wake up celebratin' shit, why?
'Cause I just dodged a bullet from a crazy bitch, I
Stuck to my guns, that's what made me rich