Author Topic: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?  (Read 32725 times)

Chrissy

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2015, 02:44:20 PM »
How much is left on the mortgage?  Is it possible that the mortgage deal is not super because the person who took the loan has less than perfect credit?  If you had the house in your name, would you qualify for a better loan? 

Another Reader

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2015, 03:33:15 PM »
IIRC, in the last episode of this soap opera, the mortgage was in your dad's name and the title was in both your dad's and your mom's name.  It sounds like your dad got off title by deeding his interest over to your mom.  My guess is that you are paying the mortgage that's in your dad's name.

If this is accurate, you have a big problem.  You are paying a mortgage on a house you do not own.  If something happened to your mom, the house would have to be sold to pay off her debts and the proceeds after the mortgage payoff would be split between you, your sister, and any other siblings.  You are at this point buying a house for these people, not for yourself.  In addition, your mom could decide at anytime to sell the house, and the net proceeds would be hers, not yours, no matter how much of the mortgage you paid.

I strongly suggest you take to heart the things that have been said here and on the original thread.  You are not helping these people and you are hurting yourself.  You have come so far from your first post here.  Figure out a way to get out from under this mess and move on with your life.

ETA:  What on earth motivated you to trade the Neon for a Saab?  That's out of the frying pan and into the fire.  Use some of the money you are pouring down the rat hole to get yourself a decent car.  You work hard for your money, you have a lot of obligations, and you need safe, reliable transportation.  And, because you are thinking of the future you, don't cut the 401(k).  Instead, unload the family obligations and with each one that disappears, INCREASE your contribution by the same amount.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2015, 03:39:43 PM by Another Reader »

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2015, 09:13:39 AM »
Don't stop contributing.

Also, Read this:

http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432671464&sr=8-1&keywords=no+more+mr+nice+guy

It sounds like you're having challenges setting good boundaries. You should not be supporting anyone. I get the familial obligation to the mom and grandma so I can understand/cut you some slack. However, that assumes your mom is in a healthy place and isn't a narcissist/and or emotionally manipulating you into supporting her.

I don't think she's a narcissist or a user.  She honestly would work and did for a long time to raise me.  I had a really easy and pleasant childhood and adolescence.  Her problem, all of their problems really, are they fucking suck with money.  Two of them compulsively gamble it away (I cringe when I even start TRYING to imagine the amount of money my grandparents pissed away) and my mom just spends, spends, spends.  Gambling isn't her vice, but money leaks through her hands like water regardless. 

My uncle is also a grandma-related obligation.  When I thought she might pass away, I swore to her I'd make sure he had food and shelter (she has a probably-not-healthy relationship with him, where she has shielded him from all responsibility for all of his adult life.  When she thought she was nearing the end, his wellbeing became her primary worry).

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2015, 09:23:55 AM »
IIRC, in the last episode of this soap opera, the mortgage was in your dad's name and the title was in both your dad's and your mom's name.  It sounds like your dad got off title by deeding his interest over to your mom.  My guess is that you are paying the mortgage that's in your dad's name.

If this is accurate, you have a big problem.  You are paying a mortgage on a house you do not own.  If something happened to your mom, the house would have to be sold to pay off her debts and the proceeds after the mortgage payoff would be split between you, your sister, and any other siblings.  You are at this point buying a house for these people, not for yourself.  In addition, your mom could decide at anytime to sell the house, and the net proceeds would be hers, not yours, no matter how much of the mortgage you paid.

I strongly suggest you take to heart the things that have been said here and on the original thread.  You are not helping these people and you are hurting yourself.  You have come so far from your first post here.  Figure out a way to get out from under this mess and move on with your life.

ETA:  What on earth motivated you to trade the Neon for a Saab?  That's out of the frying pan and into the fire.  Use some of the money you are pouring down the rat hole to get yourself a decent car.  You work hard for your money, you have a lot of obligations, and you need safe, reliable transportation.  And, because you are thinking of the future you, don't cut the 401(k).  Instead, unload the family obligations and with each one that disappears, INCREASE your contribution by the same amount.

What's the matter with a Saab?  Similar MPGs.  I ended up leaving the Neon because it had nearly 300k miles on it and I didn't know how much longer it would be around.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2015, 09:26:25 AM »
...

With regards to this, I don't think I have a savior complex.  If I do, it's a family-specific savior complex. 

And I think it's weird that supporting one's immediate family is considered not just a bad thing, but to read what's been written here, something I should be ashamed of.  A weakness in me. 

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2015, 09:27:02 AM »
How much is left on the mortgage?  Is it possible that the mortgage deal is not super because the person who took the loan has less than perfect credit?  If you had the house in your name, would you qualify for a better loan?

Somewhere in the 90k's.

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2015, 09:32:42 AM »

And I think it's weird that supporting one's immediate family is considered not just a bad thing, but to read what's been written here, something I should be ashamed of.  A weakness in me.
Aushin - I certainly don't think poorly of you for wanting to help out your family.  I think your heart is in the right place here.
my main critique is that you should never give up the free money of an employer-matched 401(k), and looking at your budget I think it is a very bad idea to pay for luxuries for other people like cable television and cell phones at your own expense.
For the record I would cut my own budget down to bare-bones to keep a 401(k) match - otherwise you are pissing away $5k every year, and missing out on a huge benefit of tax-deferred growth.

reading a lot of the other responses, I think many people are just worried that this is an enabling situation.  We have only your posts to evaluate how true that may be.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2015, 09:36:57 AM »
Well I've been well-convinced to keep contributing to the 401k so on that count at least forum.MMM.com has won the day.

charis

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2015, 09:54:04 AM »
IIRC, in the last episode of this soap opera, the mortgage was in your dad's name and the title was in both your dad's and your mom's name.  It sounds like your dad got off title by deeding his interest over to your mom.  My guess is that you are paying the mortgage that's in your dad's name.

If this is accurate, you have a big problem.  You are paying a mortgage on a house you do not own.  If something happened to your mom, the house would have to be sold to pay off her debts and the proceeds after the mortgage payoff would be split between you, your sister, and any other siblings.  You are at this point buying a house for these people, not for yourself.  In addition, your mom could decide at anytime to sell the house, and the net proceeds would be hers, not yours, no matter how much of the mortgage you paid.

I strongly suggest you take to heart the things that have been said here and on the original thread.  You are not helping these people and you are hurting yourself.  You have come so far from your first post here.  Figure out a way to get out from under this mess and move on with your life.

ETA:  What on earth motivated you to trade the Neon for a Saab?  That's out of the frying pan and into the fire.  Use some of the money you are pouring down the rat hole to get yourself a decent car.  You work hard for your money, you have a lot of obligations, and you need safe, reliable transportation.  And, because you are thinking of the future you, don't cut the 401(k).  Instead, unload the family obligations and with each one that disappears, INCREASE your contribution by the same amount.

What's the matter with a Saab?  Similar MPGs.  I ended up leaving the Neon because it had nearly 300k miles on it and I didn't know how much longer it would be around.

The car thing is what you chose to pick out of this?  The house is a huge problem for you if it is not in your name and you are paying the mortgage.  Are you ok with never seeing any of the money again and not getting the house?  Because that is a very real possibility.

No one is faulting your for your instinct to help your family.  But your auto pilot perspective that this dynamic is healthy or ok is preventing you from seeing that maybe your "help," e.g. completely supporting them, is actually hurting them. 

If you actually want to help them, help them fill out applications for any and all public assistance (as has been suggested ad nauseam  above) that they maybe eligible for, help your mother buy a reliable used vehicle so she can go back to work, and give them six months to come to jesus before putting the house on the market.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 10:01:18 AM by jezebel »

Chrissy

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2015, 10:01:13 AM »
How much is left on the mortgage?  Is it possible that the mortgage deal is not super because the person who took the loan has less than perfect credit?  If you had the house in your name, would you qualify for a better loan?

Somewhere in the 90k's.

Alright.  Let's assume the property is worth $250,000.  A $90k mortgage would probably run you $430/mo,  a savings of $345/mo.  Property taxes in Philly are 3.13%, which would be $652/mo ($7,825).  However, if you pay the taxes all at once, you get a 1% discount.  [Edit:  I'm not sure if this is 1% off of $7,825 ($78) or 1% off the 3.13% charged which would put the total at $5,325.]

Sources:  http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/mortgage-calculator.aspx
http://www.centercityresidents.org/page-1599927

I don't have any experience owning property, so I'm not sure how feasible it is for you to take over the $90k remaining on the mortgage and refinance it to a lower rate.  But, if it IS possible, you'd be paying significantly less than the current monthly amount.  That, plus the other changes to phones, etc. would lead up to a LOT more money in your pocket every month.

Also, I'm really glad we convinced you about the 401k.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 10:09:52 AM by Chrissy »

surfhb

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2015, 10:02:06 AM »
Seek counseling.  You are allowing your family to destroy your life and your future.  You are enabling them and NOT helping them.  They need to be weened off of your teet. 

I would also say that you need a spouse to kick your ass for you but maybe a close friend or anonymous posters on a money forum will work do the job.  ;)

good luck!

Bingo!    +1000

You have a serious issue and it's running you into the ground.   Screw all this budgeting advice and figure out a way to rid yourself of the need to support your family.   It's not your problem nor should you feel guilt by letting them hit rock bottom.   

Your own flesh and blood have no respect for you....period!   
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 10:05:25 AM by surfhb »

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2015, 10:04:32 AM »
IIRC, in the last episode of this soap opera, the mortgage was in your dad's name and the title was in both your dad's and your mom's name.  It sounds like your dad got off title by deeding his interest over to your mom.  My guess is that you are paying the mortgage that's in your dad's name.

If this is accurate, you have a big problem.  You are paying a mortgage on a house you do not own.  If something happened to your mom, the house would have to be sold to pay off her debts and the proceeds after the mortgage payoff would be split between you, your sister, and any other siblings.  You are at this point buying a house for these people, not for yourself.  In addition, your mom could decide at anytime to sell the house, and the net proceeds would be hers, not yours, no matter how much of the mortgage you paid.

I strongly suggest you take to heart the things that have been said here and on the original thread.  You are not helping these people and you are hurting yourself.  You have come so far from your first post here.  Figure out a way to get out from under this mess and move on with your life.

ETA:  What on earth motivated you to trade the Neon for a Saab?  That's out of the frying pan and into the fire.  Use some of the money you are pouring down the rat hole to get yourself a decent car.  You work hard for your money, you have a lot of obligations, and you need safe, reliable transportation.  And, because you are thinking of the future you, don't cut the 401(k).  Instead, unload the family obligations and with each one that disappears, INCREASE your contribution by the same amount.

What's the matter with a Saab?  Similar MPGs.  I ended up leaving the Neon because it had nearly 300k miles on it and I didn't know how much longer it would be around.

The car thing is what you chose to pick out of this?  The house is a huge problem for you if it is not in your name and you are paying the mortgage.  Are you ok with never seeing any of the money again and not getting the house?  Because that is a very real possibility.

No one is faulting your for your instinct to help your family.  But your auto pilot perspective that this dynamic is healthy or ok is preventing you from seeing that maybe your "help," e.g. completely supporting them, is actually hurting them. 

If you actually want to help them, help them fill out applications for any and all public assistance (as has been suggested ad nauseam  above) that they maybe eligible for, help your mother buy a reliable used vehicle so she can go back to work, and give them six months to come to jesus before putting the house on the market.

I picked the Saab thing because it was the only thing I knew how to address.  I'm going to call the mortgage folks today to see how a transfer into my name would work and what the end result will be.  I recognize that all of his points are valid, I just don't have any information to offer with regards to them right now.

charis

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2015, 10:27:54 AM »
You can't just transfer a mortgage into your name, you would have to get your own mortgage and "buy" the house from your mom, as far as I know.   

4alpacas

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2015, 10:31:03 AM »
Well I've been well-convinced to keep contributing to the 401k so on that count at least forum.MMM.com has won the day.

former player

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2015, 10:58:37 AM »
You can't just transfer a mortgage into your name, you would have to get your own mortgage and "buy" the house from your mom, as far as I know.   
Agree with this.  No mortgage company will lend you money on the house unless you have legal ownership of it.

It would be technically possible for you to own the house jointly with your mother and get a mortgage on that basis: she would own a share in the house equivalent to her current equity and you would own a share equivalent to the amount of the mortgage you took out (which would be used to pay off your mother's current mortgage).  You would need to think very carefully about doing this: you would probably end up paying all of the mortgage, plus the taxes and any maintenance, for an asset over which you would have no control (and possibly not even your own bedroom to sleep in) for the several decades of your mother's and uncle's lives, and possibly also for the half-century of your sister's life and the near century of your nephew's.

If your grandmother were prepared to put in the money from the sale of her mobile home, that would help the situation a lot.  You could own the house between the three of you: your mother's share would be her current equity, your grandmother's share would be her capital from the sale of her mobile home, and your share would be the residual amount borrowed by way of a new mortgage which was used (along with your grandmother's share) to pay off the old one.  Then there would be three of you owning the house.   That would reduce your costs considerably: you would have a newly financed mortgage of about $50k, hopefully at a more reasonable interest rate, and the house would be a secure home for your family without being an unreasonable burden on you.  Your grandmother could perhaps leave her share of the house to your uncle, which would ensure that he had the shelter that has been promised.  If you wanted to get a bit fancy about it, she could leave her share to him as a life interest (ie the right to live in the house for the rest of his life) after which it would come to you: that would prevent him from running up his gambling debts against his share of the house. 

Remember that there would be some legal costs involved in transferring the ownership of the house from its current state to a new joint ownership.  You could probably get enough mortgage to include those costs, though, given your current cash crisis.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2015, 11:02:16 AM »
I don't think she's a narcissist or a user.  She honestly would work and did for a long time to raise me.  I had a really easy and pleasant childhood and adolescence.  Her problem, all of their problems really, are they fucking suck with money.  Two of them compulsively gamble it away (I cringe when I even start TRYING to imagine the amount of money my grandparents pissed away) and my mom just spends, spends, spends.  Gambling isn't her vice, but money leaks through her hands like water regardless. 

This part right here is a problem. You say your mom can and would work, but she doesn't because you're perfectly happy to pay her bills. Except...you don't seem to enjoy paying her bills, you just put up with it because you believe that if she got a job she would just waste her money and come asking you for more anyway. It's time to cut the cord. She is taking advantage of you, as is your sister. Supporting the family isn't your job alone. Those who are young and able-bodied enough to work need to do so. Period. Your mother's compulsive shopping is not an excuse. Your sister's child is not an excuse. She can find a night or weekend job and the rest of the family can help out with child care while she's working. You have enough family members that you should be able to work that out. They also need to apply for any government assistance programs for which they qualify. If, after they get jobs (or legitimately try to find them) and sign up for all the programs, they still can't quite make ends meet, then (and only then) should you consider helping out. And if you do help out, you need to stand up for yourself and say that if there are any unnecessary purchases or gambling going on, they will never see another cent from you again. Anything else is them taking advantage of you.

Another Reader

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2015, 11:11:51 AM »
How about a Toyota Corolla or a Honda Civic?  Reliable, efficient, and reasonably priced.  Unload the cell phones, the cable, and the internet that your family is costing you, and you can afford to buy one of these new.  If you want to be more frugal, get something off lease that's something similar.  Reliable, safe, and cost-efficient transportation will help you as you work through the rest of the situation.

Your grandmother is looking for a home for your uncle because she can't support him forever.  She expects you to do it, and she will "help" you (maybe) with the money from the sale of her trailer.  In your shoes, I would politely decline this offer of "help," and tell the uncle he can't move in.

Your dad is the one that will be hurt if the mortgage is not paid.  It's not fair to him to hold him hostage because of your mother's and sister's behavior.  Consider paying the mortgage, but slowly cutting off all other support.  Once these folks figure out the free ride is gone, they will have to look elsewhere for the handout.

In the meantime, the folks that recommended counseling for you make a lot of sense.  You need to learn how to set boundaries, and an impartial third party could be very helpful in accomplishing that.

historienne

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #67 on: May 27, 2015, 11:20:59 AM »
One practical piece of advice: getting rejected the first time you apply for disability is very common.  Your relative may still have a chance of getting benefits if you appeal the rejection.  I recommend that you consult with a lawyer or social worker who specializes in SSDI benefits about this issue.

Depending on the circumstances, a successful appeal may result in benefits being paid from the time of the original application.  It's a pretty common business model for lawyers to take clients for SSDI cases with no upfront costs; you would agree to pay them if the case is successful, from the backdated payments.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 11:25:11 AM by historienne »

BlueHouse

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #68 on: May 27, 2015, 11:35:15 AM »
...

With regards to this, I don't think I have a savior complex.  If I do, it's a family-specific savior complex. 

And I think it's weird that supporting one's immediate family is considered not just a bad thing, but to read what's been written here, something I should be ashamed of.  A weakness in me.

I really hope you will consider that you may need some help and guidance from a professional or a support group.  It really does sound as if you are enabling a bunch of people's addictions.  It sounds as if you might be blind to how this situation affects you and your loved ones.  I commend you for wanting to help, but I have to agree that it is very likely that you're not really helping the situation, but rather delaying the inevitable - which may make it much worse in the end.  I know there are resources out there and you may even be able to take advantage of some tax changes to help your situation (is filing as head of household an option here?), but I would truly start out in a support group to help you find out if you really are part of the problem and then you can start changing your own behavior, which may help your family to see that it is possible. 


MandyM

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #69 on: May 27, 2015, 12:35:34 PM »

              -$300-800 between all the people living there (explained below)

Am I correct in assuming that the above is what your family contributes? I'm curious on the details. Do they chip in here and there? Pay for specific things, but no reliability? It is kind of broad range.

I really think you should press grandma on the 45K. As the deal stands now, she gets cash and you get another dependent. At least half of that money needs to be dumped into equity when you put the house in your name. If pissing money away is their specialty, there is no way you should accept a promised monthly payment in lieu of the lump sum. 

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2015, 12:53:35 PM »
IIRC, in the last episode of this soap opera, the mortgage was in your dad's name and the title was in both your dad's and your mom's name.  It sounds like your dad got off title by deeding his interest over to your mom.  My guess is that you are paying the mortgage that's in your dad's name.

If this is accurate, you have a big problem.  You are paying a mortgage on a house you do not own.  If something happened to your mom, the house would have to be sold to pay off her debts and the proceeds after the mortgage payoff would be split between you, your sister, and any other siblings.  You are at this point buying a house for these people, not for yourself.  In addition, your mom could decide at anytime to sell the house, and the net proceeds would be hers, not yours, no matter how much of the mortgage you paid.

I strongly suggest you take to heart the things that have been said here and on the original thread.  You are not helping these people and you are hurting yourself.  You have come so far from your first post here.  Figure out a way to get out from under this mess and move on with your life.

ETA:  What on earth motivated you to trade the Neon for a Saab?  That's out of the frying pan and into the fire.  Use some of the money you are pouring down the rat hole to get yourself a decent car.  You work hard for your money, you have a lot of obligations, and you need safe, reliable transportation.  And, because you are thinking of the future you, don't cut the 401(k).  Instead, unload the family obligations and with each one that disappears, INCREASE your contribution by the same amount.

What's the matter with a Saab?  Similar MPGs.  I ended up leaving the Neon because it had nearly 300k miles on it and I didn't know how much longer it would be around.

The car thing is what you chose to pick out of this?  The house is a huge problem for you if it is not in your name and you are paying the mortgage.  Are you ok with never seeing any of the money again and not getting the house?  Because that is a very real possibility.

No one is faulting your for your instinct to help your family.  But your auto pilot perspective that this dynamic is healthy or ok is preventing you from seeing that maybe your "help," e.g. completely supporting them, is actually hurting them. 

If you actually want to help them, help them fill out applications for any and all public assistance (as has been suggested ad nauseam  above) that they maybe eligible for, help your mother buy a reliable used vehicle so she can go back to work, and give them six months to come to jesus before putting the house on the market.

I have filled out many applications for public assistance for them.  And I have a different family member who is a social worker helping my mom figure out what programs people in our household might qualify for her. 

And I've also actually been on the hunt for a car for her (she does work when she can get to work). 

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2015, 12:55:17 PM »
How much is left on the mortgage?  Is it possible that the mortgage deal is not super because the person who took the loan has less than perfect credit?  If you had the house in your name, would you qualify for a better loan?

Somewhere in the 90k's.

Alright.  Let's assume the property is worth $250,000.  A $90k mortgage would probably run you $430/mo,  a savings of $345/mo.  Property taxes in Philly are 3.13%, which would be $652/mo ($7,825).  However, if you pay the taxes all at once, you get a 1% discount.  [Edit:  I'm not sure if this is 1% off of $7,825 ($78) or 1% off the 3.13% charged which would put the total at $5,325.]

Sources:  http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/mortgage-calculator.aspx
http://www.centercityresidents.org/page-1599927

I don't have any experience owning property, so I'm not sure how feasible it is for you to take over the $90k remaining on the mortgage and refinance it to a lower rate.  But, if it IS possible, you'd be paying significantly less than the current monthly amount.  That, plus the other changes to phones, etc. would lead up to a LOT more money in your pocket every month.

Also, I'm really glad we convinced you about the 401k.

Still gotta call the USDA about it.  Not sure how they handle refinancing or any of that.  Not sure if they do period, since they're not a bank.  Maybe I can get a bank involved?   

In any case, this is a cool potential option, thanks for the advice!

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #72 on: May 27, 2015, 12:58:11 PM »
You can't just transfer a mortgage into your name, you would have to get your own mortgage and "buy" the house from your mom, as far as I know.

This could get hairy as the mortgage was subsidized for a lot of years (the subsidy doesn't have to be paid back as long as she lives in the house and owns it)

If I buy it from her, that may put me on the hook for the subsidy.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2015, 01:00:07 PM »
I don't think she's a narcissist or a user.  She honestly would work and did for a long time to raise me.  I had a really easy and pleasant childhood and adolescence.  Her problem, all of their problems really, are they fucking suck with money.  Two of them compulsively gamble it away (I cringe when I even start TRYING to imagine the amount of money my grandparents pissed away) and my mom just spends, spends, spends.  Gambling isn't her vice, but money leaks through her hands like water regardless. 

This part right here is a problem. You say your mom can and would work, but she doesn't because you're perfectly happy to pay her bills. Except...you don't seem to enjoy paying her bills, you just put up with it because you believe that if she got a job she would just waste her money and come asking you for more anyway. It's time to cut the cord. She is taking advantage of you, as is your sister. Supporting the family isn't your job alone. Those who are young and able-bodied enough to work need to do so. Period. Your mother's compulsive shopping is not an excuse. Your sister's child is not an excuse. She can find a night or weekend job and the rest of the family can help out with child care while she's working. You have enough family members that you should be able to work that out. They also need to apply for any government assistance programs for which they qualify. If, after they get jobs (or legitimately try to find them) and sign up for all the programs, they still can't quite make ends meet, then (and only then) should you consider helping out. And if you do help out, you need to stand up for yourself and say that if there are any unnecessary purchases or gambling going on, they will never see another cent from you again. Anything else is them taking advantage of you.

My sister does have a job and my mom does watch the baby.  Trying to get them on government assistance programs.  Right now they get food stamps but no other forms of aid.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #74 on: May 27, 2015, 01:03:47 PM »

              -$300-800 between all the people living there (explained below)

Am I correct in assuming that the above is what your family contributes? I'm curious on the details. Do they chip in here and there? Pay for specific things, but no reliability? It is kind of broad range.

I really think you should press grandma on the 45K. As the deal stands now, she gets cash and you get another dependent. At least half of that money needs to be dumped into equity when you put the house in your name. If pissing money away is their specialty, there is no way you should accept a promised monthly payment in lieu of the lump sum.

It used to be 800 a month coming from my sister's boyfriend.  Three weeks ago he overdosed.  Now my grandmother has been giving me 200 dollars and my sister 100-200.  My uncle is supposed to pay 400/month from his poker bankroll, but he hasn't moved in yet.

And yes, after reading all of this, I'm going to have a long talk with my grandmother about that money.

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2015, 01:10:31 PM »
In your shoes, I would not allow your uncle to move in.  You are just adding another addict to the mix who will have an excuse not to pay you and will make it hard for your mother and sister to move forward.  You are paying for all this, so you can say no.

MandyM

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #76 on: May 27, 2015, 01:34:19 PM »
(I realize that the cable bill is small potatoes when many the other posters are suggesting you cut off most or all support.)

Could you make a deal with them on trying 3-4 months with internet only + Hulu or netflix? Perhaps you can buy silence for a smaller price.


dunhamjr

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #77 on: May 27, 2015, 01:50:12 PM »
What's the matter with a Saab?  Similar MPGs.  I ended up leaving the Neon because it had nearly 300k miles on it and I didn't know how much longer it would be around.

other than the specific issues you mentioned having with YOUR car, nothing.
people just like to rag on somethings.

saabs are fine cars.  i bought mine with 128k miles and 3 yrs later is still running just fine with very little needed in the way of actual repairs (2 oxygen sensors, 1 crank sensor), not including regular 'every car needs this crap done' maintenance.

Giro

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #78 on: May 27, 2015, 01:55:11 PM »
I read this post and all of the negative things I've ever thought about my family disappear. 

good luck with this.

dunhamjr

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #79 on: May 27, 2015, 01:56:57 PM »
With regards to this, I don't think I have a savior complex.  If I do, it's a family-specific savior complex. 

And I think it's weird that supporting one's immediate family is considered not just a bad thing, but to read what's been written here, something I should be ashamed of.  A weakness in me.

you have the complex regardless of what you name it ;)

immediate family is a bit of a stretch when you are pushing it out to grandma, an uncle, etc.
immediate family to me is mom, dad, sister, brother.  done.

i have helped out my brother once.  lent money to save his house.  got it paid back over time.  but he is in no better of a financial situation then before i lent him the money.

i do 'help' my mom out as well if you want to get technical.  i pay her to be our nanny for 8-12hrs a day to our two boys.  yeah its a lot of money, BUT not if you compare that to infant and toddler daycare costs.  not if you think about the time used in transporting kids to day care, picking them up, time off work when they are sick... etc. 

if you take it all into account with paying my mom what we do... the time and $$ cost is still a huge discount to what we would be paying going ANY another way.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #80 on: May 27, 2015, 02:04:18 PM »
What's the matter with a Saab?  Similar MPGs.  I ended up leaving the Neon because it had nearly 300k miles on it and I didn't know how much longer it would be around.

other than the specific issues you mentioned having with YOUR car, nothing.
people just like to rag on somethings.

saabs are fine cars.  i bought mine with 128k miles and 3 yrs later is still running just fine with very little needed in the way of actual repairs (2 oxygen sensors, 1 crank sensor), not including regular 'every car needs this crap done' maintenance.

Dreading finding out how much it costs to fix whatever is at the root of the issue tbh. 

dunhamjr

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2015, 02:05:58 PM »
good that we have you convinced on the 401k thing.

sounds like you are making progress on some of the assistance programs.

i do agree getting the uncle moved in as well is just another headache added on.

definitely start talking to everyone you can find about the house subsidy etc.  i do think you will need to get this house and mortgage into your name, really to protect yourself/your contributions to the mortgage.  but i can understand there may be some hurdles to jump along the way.  i am not sure how the next buyer (you) would be in any way on the hook to pay back any subsidy that your mother had received.

i also definitely agree with everyone talking about how much you contribute beyond the essentials... house, electric, water...  cellphones and cable tv are luxuries.  they need to be at least cut back significantly, if not cut off completely, so that they can fend for themselves on those items.

i also sway HIGHLY towards making the proceeds of the trailer sale yours/under your control and a contingent item to the continued support that you provide.

considering you are highly likely to continue this path of support, you need to be the one in control of making sure that this situation doesnt drag your future down the hole with the rest of the family.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2015, 02:06:26 PM »
With regards to this, I don't think I have a savior complex.  If I do, it's a family-specific savior complex. 

And I think it's weird that supporting one's immediate family is considered not just a bad thing, but to read what's been written here, something I should be ashamed of.  A weakness in me.

you have the complex regardless of what you name it ;)

immediate family is a bit of a stretch when you are pushing it out to grandma, an uncle, etc.
immediate family to me is mom, dad, sister, brother.  done.

i have helped out my brother once.  lent money to save his house.  got it paid back over time.  but he is in no better of a financial situation then before i lent him the money.

i do 'help' my mom out as well if you want to get technical.  i pay her to be our nanny for 8-12hrs a day to our two boys.  yeah its a lot of money, BUT not if you compare that to infant and toddler daycare costs.  not if you think about the time used in transporting kids to day care, picking them up, time off work when they are sick... etc. 

if you take it all into account with paying my mom what we do... the time and $$ cost is still a huge discount to what we would be paying going ANY another way.

I lived in one house with all the people mentioned (except my sister who wasn't born yet) until I was 5.  I'm probably a lot closer to my uncle and grandmother than most people are.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2015, 02:07:49 PM »
When I say "house" I mean "trailer". 

Another Reader

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2015, 02:16:36 PM »
And that's exactly why the Saab needs to go.  Dreading car repair expenses should not be part of a young, successful software engineer's life.  You need a car that is safe, reliable, and fuel efficient.  By telling your family members they must pay for all their luxury services, you can easily afford such a vehicle.

The mortgage is going to be a problem.  From what you said, it's a USDA direct loan and not just a USDA guaranteed loan.  Your mother does not qualify to refinance and your dad no longer occupies the house and is no longer married to your mom.  You might ask if it is possible to refinance into a conventional mortgage without having to repay the subsidies. 

If your sister has a job, why isn't she paying more in rent?

seattlecyclone

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #85 on: May 27, 2015, 02:21:16 PM »
              Also, until recently, my sister's boyfriend and the father of my nephew  (not the same as the one who was using my sis as a mule) was living with us and paying 800/month to me in rent.

I missed this part on my first read. Have you applied for social security survivor's benefits? Your sister and nephew could each be eligible for a sizable monthly payment until the kid turns 16 (for your sister) or 18 (for your nephew).

Another Reader

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2015, 02:27:44 PM »
And my sister can't collect any Social Security because he did manual labor for cash.  He had a lot of money saved up but it's all going to go towards paying out tens of thousands of dollars of back-owed child support for his four (count em!) other children.

I don't know the rules, but it sounds like they can't get this benefit.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2015, 02:30:11 PM »
And that's exactly why the Saab needs to go.  Dreading car repair expenses should not be part of a young, successful software engineer's life.  You need a car that is safe, reliable, and fuel efficient.  By telling your family members they must pay for all their luxury services, you can easily afford such a vehicle.

The mortgage is going to be a problem.  From what you said, it's a USDA direct loan and not just a USDA guaranteed loan.  Your mother does not qualify to refinance and your dad no longer occupies the house and is no longer married to your mom.  You might ask if it is possible to refinance into a conventional mortgage without having to repay the subsidies. 

If your sister has a job, why isn't she paying more in rent?

She started the job two weeks ago.  I'm waiting to see what her paychecks look like before I peg her to a payment plan.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #88 on: May 27, 2015, 02:41:25 PM »
And my sister can't collect any Social Security because he did manual labor for cash.  He had a lot of money saved up but it's all going to go towards paying out tens of thousands of dollars of back-owed child support for his four (count em!) other children.

I don't know the rules, but it sounds like they can't get this benefit.

I suppose "for cash" is code for "not reported on anyone's tax return." This is one of many examples of how tax fraud can be a bad idea.

MsPeacock

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #89 on: May 27, 2015, 04:26:53 PM »
Here is the link for information on social security survivor benefits

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10085.pdf


Mrs. Pomodoro

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #90 on: May 27, 2015, 07:02:17 PM »
My uncle is also a grandma-related obligation.  When I thought she might pass away, I swore to her I'd make sure he had food and shelter (she has a probably-not-healthy relationship with him, where she has shielded him from all responsibility for all of his adult life.  When she thought she was nearing the end, his wellbeing became her primary worry).

After my grandmother was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, she had my mom swear to her that my mom will take care of my aunt after she passes away. So far my aunt is capable of taking care of herself physically and financially but she is emotionally immature and even abusive sometimes. Oftentimes when my mom doesn't do what my aunt requested she would say to my mom, "Didn't you promise our mother you will take care of me?" "Taking care of me" includes things like getting groceries for her when she doesn't feel like going out and asking my dad to drive her to places when there are convenient taxi/public transportation options available.

Now my mom's in her 70's, she starts making the same request to my brother and I, to take care of my aunt if my mom passes away before my aunt. Both my brother and I told her not to guilt us into it like our grandmother did to her. We're sensible adults and will do whatever's necessary, but not more.

From my brother's and my perspective, it's really my grandmother's and my aunt's responsibility. My aunt is "alone" because of how she was raised and her own doing. Why should my mom be the one who takes the burden?

I think my mom's situation isn't even as bad as yours, but it still affects our life as a family and I see my mom stressed out about it over the past 20 years. It must be difficult when someone close and ill made you promise something like this, but you need to think for your (future) self, too. Please keep in mind that you're making a promise to take care of a gambler for the rest of your and his life, and re-evaluate if this is what you really want for yourself. No one, including your grandmother, should ask you to sacrifice your life so that others don't have to suffer for themselves. If you cannot or unwilling to "undo" your promise, make it very clear what it means to support your uncle and do your future partner a favor and let him/her know about this situation before committing to a long term relationship. My dad really shouldn't be part of this "contract" but he cannot get out of it. It hurts to see my aunt bossing my dad around.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2015, 07:04:55 PM by Mrs. Pomodoro »

BrickByBrick

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2015, 07:59:37 PM »
Reading through all this, I will simply reaffirm what many others have said and then some:

1.  That house needs to be in your name or you need to stop paying on it.  Perhaps Grandma's trailer money can go toward this (must go to this) if you can't get the mortgage in your name.  If that won't work, that trailer money needs to go towards the home's living expenses, to give you a break.

2.  If it truly is too late to stop your addict uncle from moving in, put up a boundary now that he needs to support himself other than shelter.  You said he is not physically disabled...good news! He can at least dig a ditch.

3.  You keep saying your mom would work if only she had a car...then buy a cheap beater car (2-3K) and give it to her.  This honestly sounds to me like an excuse, the car situation cannot be this hard to address.  If she hesitates about driving a beater car, then you will know her issue is with working...not the car.

If you're going to continue to support them all, all of their finances need to be an open book to you.  Seriously, their financial decisions need to be run by you first.  You are giving a drunk a drink by paying for anything of theirs when they are turning around and gambling it away (or compulsively spending - your mom).  You live in a house full of addicts, they cannot be trusted with their own money.  You need to start weening them off your support.

If you start cutting them off from certain luxuries due to bad behavior, they will riot, and accuse you of all sorts of nasty things, because they are children (and you are forced to treat them like children).  If they full on rebel, you have to leave.  You have a life and future ahead of you, and it sounds like it's all on you to break this cycle.  Change your family tree.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #92 on: May 28, 2015, 08:28:15 AM »
And my sister can't collect any Social Security because he did manual labor for cash.  He had a lot of money saved up but it's all going to go towards paying out tens of thousands of dollars of back-owed child support for his four (count em!) other children.

I don't know the rules, but it sounds like they can't get this benefit.

I suppose "for cash" is code for "not reported on anyone's tax return." This is one of many examples of how tax fraud can be a bad idea.

This post feels really judgmental.  I'm not speaking in code.  It isn't some cryptic password.  When you work for cash you aren't listed on anyone's accounting records.

Another Reader

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #93 on: May 28, 2015, 08:34:53 AM »
The responses that are judgemental refer to some very bad behavior by your family members.  Other than that, everyone here is encouraging you to make changes that will benefit you now and in the long run your dependent family members.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #94 on: May 28, 2015, 08:35:55 AM »
And my sister can't collect any Social Security because he did manual labor for cash.  He had a lot of money saved up but it's all going to go towards paying out tens of thousands of dollars of back-owed child support for his four (count em!) other children.

I don't know the rules, but it sounds like they can't get this benefit.

I suppose "for cash" is code for "not reported on anyone's tax return." This is one of many examples of how tax fraud can be a bad idea.

This post feels really judgmental.  I'm not speaking in code.  It isn't some cryptic password.  When you work for cash you aren't listed on anyone's accounting records.

And that comes with consequences like not being able to collect SS benefits.  Nothing judgemental about it, just reality.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #95 on: May 28, 2015, 09:06:57 AM »
Reading through all this, I will simply reaffirm what many others have said and then some:

1.  That house needs to be in your name or you need to stop paying on it.  Perhaps Grandma's trailer money can go toward this (must go to this) if you can't get the mortgage in your name.  If that won't work, that trailer money needs to go towards the home's living expenses, to give you a break.

2.  If it truly is too late to stop your addict uncle from moving in, put up a boundary now that he needs to support himself other than shelter.  You said he is not physically disabled...good news! He can at least dig a ditch.

3.  You keep saying your mom would work if only she had a car...then buy a cheap beater car (2-3K) and give it to her.  This honestly sounds to me like an excuse, the car situation cannot be this hard to address.  If she hesitates about driving a beater car, then you will know her issue is with working...not the car.

If you're going to continue to support them all, all of their finances need to be an open book to you.  Seriously, their financial decisions need to be run by you first.  You are giving a drunk a drink by paying for anything of theirs when they are turning around and gambling it away (or compulsively spending - your mom).  You live in a house full of addicts, they cannot be trusted with their own money.  You need to start weening them off your support.

If you start cutting them off from certain luxuries due to bad behavior, they will riot, and accuse you of all sorts of nasty things, because they are children (and you are forced to treat them like children).  If they full on rebel, you have to leave.  You have a life and future ahead of you, and it sounds like it's all on you to break this cycle.  Change your family tree.

1. Got off the phone with the USDA about the process and how it works.  I pretty much have to talk to a real estate lawyer, because there are a LOT of variables, including:
     A. Recapture of subsidy amount when the property changes hands (she's been subsidized for about $56,000 dollars so far)
     B. Renegotiation of the interest rate (was set at 6.75% in 1998, could possibly be lowered if I refinance, which in turn can heavily impact the above Recapture amount)
     C. The possibility of just having the deed signed over to my name and leaving the mortgage agreement as is (didn't even realize this was a thing that could happen)
     D. How grandma's trailer sale money could impact any or all of the above

2. I've told my uncle I want 400 dollars per month from him in rent. 

3. A friend of mine offered me his 150k mile '97 Cadillac Seville to give to her for free (technically $1000 but on a "pay me whenever you can" basis).  But she says the car is too large (she is 4'9") and that she tried to drive similar cars back in the day and can't do so safely.  I don't know if that is her being difficult or just a physical reality of being so tiny.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #96 on: May 28, 2015, 09:10:20 AM »
Unrelated: yay 100 posts I'm a Handlebar.  Which reminds me I should really invest in a bike for getting to and from work.

tweezers

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2015, 09:12:51 AM »
Reading through all this, I will simply reaffirm what many others have said and then some:

1.  That house needs to be in your name or you need to stop paying on it.  Perhaps Grandma's trailer money can go toward this (must go to this) if you can't get the mortgage in your name.  If that won't work, that trailer money needs to go towards the home's living expenses, to give you a break.

2.  If it truly is too late to stop your addict uncle from moving in, put up a boundary now that he needs to support himself other than shelter.  You said he is not physically disabled...good news! He can at least dig a ditch.

3.  You keep saying your mom would work if only she had a car...then buy a cheap beater car (2-3K) and give it to her.  This honestly sounds to me like an excuse, the car situation cannot be this hard to address.  If she hesitates about driving a beater car, then you will know her issue is with working...not the car.

If you're going to continue to support them all, all of their finances need to be an open book to you.  Seriously, their financial decisions need to be run by you first.  You are giving a drunk a drink by paying for anything of theirs when they are turning around and gambling it away (or compulsively spending - your mom).  You live in a house full of addicts, they cannot be trusted with their own money.  You need to start weening them off your support.

If you start cutting them off from certain luxuries due to bad behavior, they will riot, and accuse you of all sorts of nasty things, because they are children (and you are forced to treat them like children).  If they full on rebel, you have to leave.  You have a life and future ahead of you, and it sounds like it's all on you to break this cycle.  Change your family tree.

1. Got off the phone with the USDA about the process and how it works.  I pretty much have to talk to a real estate lawyer, because there are a LOT of variables, including:
     A. Recapture of subsidy amount when the property changes hands (she's been subsidized for about $56,000 dollars so far)
     B. Renegotiation of the interest rate (was set at 6.75% in 1998, could possibly be lowered if I refinance, which in turn can heavily impact the above Recapture amount)
     C. The possibility of just having the deed signed over to my name and leaving the mortgage agreement as is (didn't even realize this was a thing that could happen)
     D. How grandma's trailer sale money could impact any or all of the above

2. I've told my uncle I want 400 dollars per month from him in rent. 

3. A friend of mine offered me his 150k mile '97 Cadillac Seville to give to her for free (technically $1000 but on a "pay me whenever you can" basis).  But she says the car is too large (she is 4'9") and that she tried to drive similar cars back in the day and can't do so safely.  I don't know if that is her being difficult or just a physical reality of being so tiny.

I was just going to chime in about C.  It doesn't matter whose name the mortgage is in....its the title that important (I'm the sole mortgage holder in my family, but my husband and I are both on the title).  I was able to add to my husband to the title of my house when we got married.  I just had to pay the filing fee with the county.  Good luck.

TimmyTightWad

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #98 on: May 28, 2015, 09:19:41 AM »
Just curious which employer in the Philly area provides free food....feel free to inbox for privacy reasons.

Aushin

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Re: Should I stop contributing to my 401k temporarily?
« Reply #99 on: May 28, 2015, 09:34:13 AM »
PM'd you.  Although I think in other threads I've made in the past I basically gave away where I work.