Author Topic: Should I max out my 401K when I'm in my late 20s with other big financial goals?  (Read 5188 times)

CourtneyT

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I'm a pretty new reader living not too far away from the MMM. I have been married for 3 years and both my husband and I are in our late 20s. We have been living a frugal life since we got married and I believe that we are very successful with our life and financial management. I would like to introduce ourselves a little bit more so that it's easier for you to give the suggestions about my 401k contribution.

1. I have been the breadwinner of the family during the past 3 years while my husband went to school full time to get his master's degree. This is my first real job after my graduate school (master's degree) and gives us about 50k+ income a year. My husband just graduated and got a job with a 60k+ salary. I'm thinking to move to the city he will be working and I confidently believe that my new job will be 60k+ too.

2. We are currently debt free. During the 3 years with an annual income of 50-60k, we saved a 10-month emergency fund, 50k housing purchase fund, a 15k new used-car (just purchased with cash) and one international trip a year from scratch. We are very proud our results while we didn't know how we so magically made it with a rent costing half-month of my take home salary (biggest financial mistake ever made).

3. With the crazy real estate market in Colorado, we are thinking to buy a house within 1 to 2 years so that we can start to have kids. We were priced out by the 250k housing market when we were looking with the 50k down payment so that we are working on saving 100k (another 50k saving on top of the current fund) within about 1 year. I guess that we are the MMM type of people because we can save 50k a year with a 120k annual income.

4. Haha, finally get to the 401k part. My current company matches 3%. So when I started the job 3 years ago, I contributed 3% and set it to increase 1% a year so it's 6% now. All the financial experts on the Internet say that people should max out their 401k. It didn't make sense to me at all! At least in the past 3 years! We could not have saved that much for car or house so quickly if we followed the experts' suggestion! What's your opinion about this part? Should I have contributed more % in the past 3 yearsWith the two incomes (120k+)and slightly cheaper rent in the future, what's your suggestion about our 401k contribution in each of the stage (1-2 year before we purchase the house / after we buy the house and have kids but still pay the mortgage / totally debt free)? I especially hate debt so we will definitely do a 15-year mortgage with at least 20% down payment for a house about 300k-400k and will try to pay if off as soon as possible, ideally within 10-12 years. All the other costs involving children, car, and vacation have to be considered too. I'm wondering if we won't really be able to max out our 401k until our household income is 190k+ and totally debt free and college funds are all ready.

I really appreciate any of your suggestion. I would like to share my experience if you have any question.

Thanks,
Courtney

freeat57

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Congratulations and good job so far!!  Here are a few things to consider.  In investing, nothing replaces time.  If you look at examples of the power of compounding over time, someone who starts early comes out better every time.  Do not forget that not only are you investing money in your 401k, but it is not taxed going in, thus you save on your taxes for now.  You will likely earn more than enough on the 401k money to offset the mortgage interest.  And, believe me, it will be much easier to FIRE when you know you have that giant 401k waiting for you in your golden years.

CourtneyT

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Congratulations and good job so far!!  Here are a few things to consider.  In investing, nothing replaces time.  If you look at examples of the power of compounding over time, someone who starts early comes out better every time.  Do not forget that not only are you investing money in your 401k, but it is not taxed going in, thus you save on your taxes for now.  You will likely earn more than enough on the 401k money to offset the mortgage interest.  And, believe me, it will be much easier to FIRE when you know you have that giant 401k waiting for you in your golden years.

Thank you for your idea! You pointed out two things I didn't think about:

1. The earning on 401k money could offset with the mortgage interest. Even though I appreciate the peace of the mind without debt, the earning on 401k could bring me much more in the future if I only have to delay paying off my mortgage for 3-5 years.

2. The feeling of having a giant 401k balance. I haven't experience it yet because it's pretty small right now. I guess that I would love to see it growing to 7 figures some day!

Lucky Girl

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You are doing a great job!  I think the issue here is that you obviously have some emotional ties that may be impacting your financial decisions.  That is ok, but you just need to be conscious that you may delay some goals to satisfy emotional needs.

Two issues I see:
1) Prioritizing buying a house:  Many on MMM forums will tell you that renting is cheaper in several areas.  You do not need to have a house when you first have kids.  In fact, I would argue that its a bad idea for the first few years.  When kids are first born they don't need a lot of space, but they do need a lot of your time.  (I know, my kids are 3 and 6).  You will not want to worry about all the additional maintenance that comes with owning a home.  The smaller and lower maintenance your residence is, the better.  Also, its cheaper.  I would suggest you consider deferring buying the nice house with the backyard until your kids are a few years old (age 3 or so).  Even then you may find that being near a nice park/playground is better than having your own house.

2)  Prioritizing paying off the mortgage:  emotional decision.  Many thoughts on this, but most agree that the most financially advantageous decisions is to only pay minimums on any loan below about 6%.  Mortgages these days are typically under 4%.


bottom line:  Your decisions, but in my opinion as someone who has never met you and is only looking at financial advantages, you should max out your 401(k) right now.  So should your spouse.  Then, whatever you have left can go to other savings goals.  You will never have another opportunity to defer $36,000 of income on your taxes.

MandyM

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As freeat57 said, well done so far. But...

I understand that you are debt averse, but the bottom line is that you can (more or less) get a loan to pay for anything EXCEPT your retirement. I am of the opinion that retirement savings should always be first, even if you don't plan on ER and 6% just doesn't cut it.

... All the other costs involving children, car, and vacation have to be considered too. I'm wondering if we won't really be able to max out our 401k until our household income is 190k+ and totally debt free and college funds are all ready.

This is some crazy logic. You aren't going to max out your 401K until you are totally debt free and have funded the college funds of your future children? Please don't do that.

neo von retorch

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Have you read any of the Mad Fientist? "Retire even earlier..."

There are big tax benefits available to you, especially if you plan to retire before age 60. Maximizing your 401K contributions will also maximum the tax savings. While your taxable account savings won't be as fast, they won't slow as much as you'd expect because the government will be taking a lot less out of your paychecks.

Tick-Tock

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I love to travel and have spent a lot of money on it, but only after maxing out retirement contributions. Once the year passes, you don't get that tax-deferred space back.

catccc

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another vote for maxing out your 401Ks.  I didn't in my early to mid 20s, started in my late 20s, and I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner.

Also another vote for de-prioritizing buying a house.  We have been renters and our kids are now 4 & 7.  If we had bought what we were interested in before kids, or even when they were babies, we would be stuck in a house that isn't what we would buy now.  People and priorities change.  I had dreams of a big family with 4 kids.  Turns out 2 is good for us.  I've also grown to love simple living in smaller spaces.  Some of the places we looked at before kids would be horrible to maintain and keep clean just due to size.  Owning a home isn't something that is always easy to get out of, so hesistation here isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also, for a home around that price, you aren't looking at much in tax benefits (mortgage interest).  I'd guess you are better off taking the standard deduction and keeping that 401k contribution maxed to lower taxable income.

For what it's worth, we've essentially been a one income family all but the first year of our 8 married years (married at 28, now 36).  In the single earner years, our gross pay anywhere from $24K (that was just one year, though) to $50K-$90K.  Through diligent savings, our net worth is now 616K, and we are aiming for FI, possibly RE within 5 years time.

CourtneyT

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another vote for maxing out your 401Ks.  I didn't in my early to mid 20s, started in my late 20s, and I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner.

Also another vote for de-prioritizing buying a house.  We have been renters and our kids are now 4 & 7.  If we had bought what we were interested in before kids, or even when they were babies, we would be stuck in a house that isn't what we would buy now.  People and priorities change.  I had dreams of a big family with 4 kids.  Turns out 2 is good for us.  I've also grown to love simple living in smaller spaces.  Some of the places we looked at before kids would be horrible to maintain and keep clean just due to size.  Owning a home isn't something that is always easy to get out of, so hesistation here isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also, for a home around that price, you aren't looking at much in tax benefits (mortgage interest).  I'd guess you are better off taking the standard deduction and keeping that 401k contribution maxed to lower taxable income.

For what it's worth, we've essentially been a one income family all but the first year of our 8 married years (married at 28, now 36).  In the single earner years, our gross pay anywhere from $24K (that was just one year, though) to $50K-$90K.  Through diligent savings, our net worth is now 616K, and we are aiming for FI, possibly RE within 5 years time.

Haha, I just did a rough calculation. Since our income will be 120k+ from this year, we may fall into the 25% tax bracket. By maxing out the 401K, we will be in the 15% bracket. It will make the take home salary almost the same!

neo von retorch

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Haha, I just did a rough calculation. Since our income will be 120k+ from this year, we may fall into the 25% tax bracket. By maxing out the 401K, we will be in the 15% bracket. It will make the take home salary almost the same!

That might be some funny math :) Money below $75k will be taxed at 15% - money taxed above $75k will be taxed at 25%. So let's just ignore taxes below $75k and say that the top $45k is taxed at 25%; take home is $33,750. If you contribute $18000, your take home is $20,250 (plus $18,000 in your 401K). If you both contribute, so $36,000, your take home is $6,750 (plus $36,000 in your 401K).

So while you both maxing out a 401K will leave about $27,000 less ($2250/month) going to your bank for you to put towards other goals, overall you're keeping $9000 more of your money.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 02:25:10 PM by neogodless »

Gin1984

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Yes, max out your 401k before anything.  Before purchasing a house, purchasing a car, trip etc.  And especially before having children.  Childcare is expensive, max out now.

ooeei

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another vote for maxing out your 401Ks.  I didn't in my early to mid 20s, started in my late 20s, and I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner.

Also another vote for de-prioritizing buying a house.  We have been renters and our kids are now 4 & 7.  If we had bought what we were interested in before kids, or even when they were babies, we would be stuck in a house that isn't what we would buy now.  People and priorities change.  I had dreams of a big family with 4 kids.  Turns out 2 is good for us.  I've also grown to love simple living in smaller spaces.  Some of the places we looked at before kids would be horrible to maintain and keep clean just due to size.  Owning a home isn't something that is always easy to get out of, so hesistation here isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also, for a home around that price, you aren't looking at much in tax benefits (mortgage interest).  I'd guess you are better off taking the standard deduction and keeping that 401k contribution maxed to lower taxable income.

For what it's worth, we've essentially been a one income family all but the first year of our 8 married years (married at 28, now 36).  In the single earner years, our gross pay anywhere from $24K (that was just one year, though) to $50K-$90K.  Through diligent savings, our net worth is now 616K, and we are aiming for FI, possibly RE within 5 years time.

Haha, I just did a rough calculation. Since our income will be 120k+ from this year, we may fall into the 25% tax bracket. By maxing out the 401K, we will be in the 15% bracket. It will make the take home salary almost the same!

Well, it won't be almost the same, but it won't be as bad as you'd think.

If you contribute $36,000 to the 401k, it will reduce your take home by $27,000 if you're in the 25% marginal bracket.

The 25% rate is only on the income you make above $75,300.  You pay 0% on the first $18,550 you make, 15% on everything from $18,550 to $75,300, and 25% on everything from $75,300 up to $151,900.  It's not like a lot of people think, where someone who makes $75,400 pays 25% in taxes, and someone who makes $75,200 pays 15%.


Edit:  But you should still totally do it.  Max that baby out!  Also, take a look at http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/05/29/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/ and http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-calculator.html?_r=1 before you make any house buying decisions.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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You have an excellent household income. Maxing your 401ks and other retirement accounts available to you is imperative.

hankscorpio84

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another vote for maxing out your 401Ks.  I didn't in my early to mid 20s, started in my late 20s, and I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner.

Also another vote for de-prioritizing buying a house.  We have been renters and our kids are now 4 & 7.  If we had bought what we were interested in before kids, or even when they were babies, we would be stuck in a house that isn't what we would buy now.  People and priorities change.  I had dreams of a big family with 4 kids.  Turns out 2 is good for us.  I've also grown to love simple living in smaller spaces.  Some of the places we looked at before kids would be horrible to maintain and keep clean just due to size.  Owning a home isn't something that is always easy to get out of, so hesistation here isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also, for a home around that price, you aren't looking at much in tax benefits (mortgage interest).  I'd guess you are better off taking the standard deduction and keeping that 401k contribution maxed to lower taxable income.

For what it's worth, we've essentially been a one income family all but the first year of our 8 married years (married at 28, now 36).  In the single earner years, our gross pay anywhere from $24K (that was just one year, though) to $50K-$90K.  Through diligent savings, our net worth is now 616K, and we are aiming for FI, possibly RE within 5 years time.

Haha, I just did a rough calculation. Since our income will be 120k+ from this year, we may fall into the 25% tax bracket. By maxing out the 401K, we will be in the 15% bracket. It will make the take home salary almost the same!

Right on CourtneyT - think of it as an instant 25% ROI for investing in your future.  Also, if you are eligible, consider a HSA.  http://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/

CourtneyT

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another vote for maxing out your 401Ks.  I didn't in my early to mid 20s, started in my late 20s, and I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner.

Also another vote for de-prioritizing buying a house.  We have been renters and our kids are now 4 & 7.  If we had bought what we were interested in before kids, or even when they were babies, we would be stuck in a house that isn't what we would buy now.  People and priorities change.  I had dreams of a big family with 4 kids.  Turns out 2 is good for us.  I've also grown to love simple living in smaller spaces.  Some of the places we looked at before kids would be horrible to maintain and keep clean just due to size.  Owning a home isn't something that is always easy to get out of, so hesistation here isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also, for a home around that price, you aren't looking at much in tax benefits (mortgage interest).  I'd guess you are better off taking the standard deduction and keeping that 401k contribution maxed to lower taxable income.

For what it's worth, we've essentially been a one income family all but the first year of our 8 married years (married at 28, now 36).  In the single earner years, our gross pay anywhere from $24K (that was just one year, though) to $50K-$90K.  Through diligent savings, our net worth is now 616K, and we are aiming for FI, possibly RE within 5 years time.

Haha, I just did a rough calculation. Since our income will be 120k+ from this year, we may fall into the 25% tax bracket. By maxing out the 401K, we will be in the 15% bracket. It will make the take home salary almost the same!

Right on CourtneyT - think of it as an instant 25% ROI for investing in your future.  Also, if you are eligible, consider a HSA.  http://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/

I'm doing an HSA right now. My tax friend suggested me to max out Roth IRA as well.

JLee

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another vote for maxing out your 401Ks.  I didn't in my early to mid 20s, started in my late 20s, and I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner.

Also another vote for de-prioritizing buying a house.  We have been renters and our kids are now 4 & 7.  If we had bought what we were interested in before kids, or even when they were babies, we would be stuck in a house that isn't what we would buy now.  People and priorities change.  I had dreams of a big family with 4 kids.  Turns out 2 is good for us.  I've also grown to love simple living in smaller spaces.  Some of the places we looked at before kids would be horrible to maintain and keep clean just due to size.  Owning a home isn't something that is always easy to get out of, so hesistation here isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also, for a home around that price, you aren't looking at much in tax benefits (mortgage interest).  I'd guess you are better off taking the standard deduction and keeping that 401k contribution maxed to lower taxable income.

For what it's worth, we've essentially been a one income family all but the first year of our 8 married years (married at 28, now 36).  In the single earner years, our gross pay anywhere from $24K (that was just one year, though) to $50K-$90K.  Through diligent savings, our net worth is now 616K, and we are aiming for FI, possibly RE within 5 years time.

Haha, I just did a rough calculation. Since our income will be 120k+ from this year, we may fall into the 25% tax bracket. By maxing out the 401K, we will be in the 15% bracket. It will make the take home salary almost the same!

Right on CourtneyT - think of it as an instant 25% ROI for investing in your future.  Also, if you are eligible, consider a HSA.  http://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/

I'm doing an HSA right now. My tax friend suggested me to max out Roth IRA as well.

I would probably max Traditional IRAs for another $11,000 in tax deferred investments, though if you're down to the 15% bracket Roth may be reasonable (also, read this).

neo von retorch

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I would probably max Traditional IRAs for another $11,000 in tax deferred investments, though if you're down to the 15% bracket Roth may be reasonable (also, read this).

Where do you hit the limit with TIRA tax deduction with income when you have an employer sponsored 401K?

BarkyardBQ

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I would probably max Traditional IRAs for another $11,000 in tax deferred investments, though if you're down to the 15% bracket Roth may be reasonable (also, read this).

Where do you hit the limit with TIRA tax deduction with income when you have an employer sponsored 401K?

https://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/IRA-Deduction-Limits

I also recommend that 401k/Traditional IRA's get maxed out before any other savings goal.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 03:01:13 PM by BackyarBQ »

CourtneyT

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You are doing a great job!  I think the issue here is that you obviously have some emotional ties that may be impacting your financial decisions.  That is ok, but you just need to be conscious that you may delay some goals to satisfy emotional needs.

Two issues I see:
1) Prioritizing buying a house:  Many on MMM forums will tell you that renting is cheaper in several areas.  You do not need to have a house when you first have kids.  In fact, I would argue that its a bad idea for the first few years.  When kids are first born they don't need a lot of space, but they do need a lot of your time.  (I know, my kids are 3 and 6).  You will not want to worry about all the additional maintenance that comes with owning a home.  The smaller and lower maintenance your residence is, the better.  Also, its cheaper.  I would suggest you consider deferring buying the nice house with the backyard until your kids are a few years old (age 3 or so).  Even then you may find that being near a nice park/playground is better than having your own house.

2)  Prioritizing paying off the mortgage:  emotional decision.  Many thoughts on this, but most agree that the most financially advantageous decisions is to only pay minimums on any loan below about 6%.  Mortgages these days are typically under 4%.


bottom line:  Your decisions, but in my opinion as someone who has never met you and is only looking at financial advantages, you should max out your 401(k) right now.  So should your spouse.  Then, whatever you have left can go to other savings goals.  You will never have another opportunity to defer $36,000 of income on your taxes.

Actually, I have been rethinking about buying a house next year. With the crazy market in Denver area last year and probably this year, if we rush into the housing market, probably we will buy it at the highest price. I just want to get the cash ready and have more freedom to jump to the house we really like. Also, when I have the baby, my mom will definitely come to take care of me for at least half year. My parents will visit a lot in the future and help take care of babies. I'm so lucky to have a mom like that. Renting for a long time will not work very well because an average 2-bedroom is easily 1,200-2,000 now, which is enough to pay a mortgage.

FIPurpose

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another vote for maxing out your 401Ks.  I didn't in my early to mid 20s, started in my late 20s, and I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner.

Also another vote for de-prioritizing buying a house.  We have been renters and our kids are now 4 & 7.  If we had bought what we were interested in before kids, or even when they were babies, we would be stuck in a house that isn't what we would buy now.  People and priorities change.  I had dreams of a big family with 4 kids.  Turns out 2 is good for us.  I've also grown to love simple living in smaller spaces.  Some of the places we looked at before kids would be horrible to maintain and keep clean just due to size.  Owning a home isn't something that is always easy to get out of, so hesistation here isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Also, for a home around that price, you aren't looking at much in tax benefits (mortgage interest).  I'd guess you are better off taking the standard deduction and keeping that 401k contribution maxed to lower taxable income.

For what it's worth, we've essentially been a one income family all but the first year of our 8 married years (married at 28, now 36).  In the single earner years, our gross pay anywhere from $24K (that was just one year, though) to $50K-$90K.  Through diligent savings, our net worth is now 616K, and we are aiming for FI, possibly RE within 5 years time.

Haha, I just did a rough calculation. Since our income will be 120k+ from this year, we may fall into the 25% tax bracket. By maxing out the 401K, we will be in the 15% bracket. It will make the take home salary almost the same!

Right on CourtneyT - think of it as an instant 25% ROI for investing in your future.  Also, if you are eligible, consider a HSA.  http://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/

I'm doing an HSA right now. My tax friend suggested me to max out Roth IRA as well.

I would probably max Traditional IRAs for another $11,000 in tax deferred investments, though if you're down to the 15% bracket Roth may be reasonable (also, read this).

I came to a similar conclusion (though not nearly as well written as go curry cracker) that even when doing Traditional to Roth conversions, it's just not worth it if your paying tax on that money. Roth is really only worthwhile if you are in the 0% tax range.

bearkat

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Way to be debt free after 4 degrees, that's great! But here's another vote for maxing 401k or at the very least investing a lot more than 6%.

Glad to see your re-examining the house, I personally wouldn't want a mortgage that was nearly 5x my 1-person annual income, especially if I was about to have kids. You mention how you hated having rent eat up so much of your budget, but with a 300k 15-year mortgage it seems like you could easily be in the same boat again.

catccc

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If/when you have other investments, staying well in the 15% tax bracket can be really beneficial.  On our 2013 return, we had taxable capital gains of $11K.  Our tax rate on those gains?  0%.

Another vote for checking out a traditional IRA for deductability.  I like to have a mix of both taxable and non-taxable income sources in retirement.  Aim for the Roth contributions in lower earning years and the traditional for higher earning years.   Right now my after-tax retirement money is more than my pre-tax money.  I'm now in what I plan to be the home stretch and highest earning years of my path to FI, so I'm doing traditional IRA contributions from here on out.

Or try for rollovers and conversions to take advantage of rates.  For instance, as a single person, I put away into my 401Ks, taking it off the top of my income at the 25% tax rate.  After I got married, in the year that I was a SAHP, I rolled that into a Roth and paid taxes on it all at 15%.

little_brown_dog

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Don't fall into the house trap unless you are certain a house is important for your quality of life. We have a house, and while it works well for us, it is a pain in the butt. You don't realize how awesome the perks of renting can be (bundled utilities, repairs/upgrades covered or managed by the owner, ability to move relatively easily) until you no longer have them. With a house, you aren't just paying the mortgage - you are also socked with property taxes, increased utilities, lawn/yard maintenance expenses, and you have to pay for every single thing that breaks or needs to be replaced. And moving is a complete nightmare because few of us want to pay for 2 homes at once.
For us, all of this is worth it because we really value our private outdoor space. Shared condo complex green spaces, tiny balconies, or rented properties that we could be easily ousted from just don't work well with our lifestyle. With 2 big dogs and kids and a desire to garden and do homesteady things, the house, even with its downsides, still is better for us than renting. But if we were city people who weren't particularly attached to owning actual land (and doing weird things on it that most landlords would hate - like filling it with raised vegetable beds and letting poultry run around), renting would probably beat owning.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 01:22:15 PM by little_brown_dog »