Should I get a heat pump to replace my 20 year old central AC?

[G-String]

My current central air conditioner came with the house and is approximately 21 years old. Still works fine, but likely nearing the end of its life. Replacement would cost around $4000-5000 (I'm in Winnipeg). With the federal Greener Hoes program possibly coming to an end soon, I started to look into getting a crossover heat pump instead of replacing the AC. My furnace is almost brand new.

I got a quote for a Carrier crossover air source heat pump; it would cost approximately $10,000 minus $5k in federal rebates and $1500 in Manitoba Provincial rebates. Meaning a total cost to me of approximately $3500 after all rebates are factored in.

The HVAC guy who provided me with the quote said that crossover heat pumps are less reliable than a traditional central air conditioner, but both come with a 10 year warranty. Reliability is important to me.

Based on this info, should I get a crossover heat pump now?

[Sibley]

Is your HVAC guy one of the people who have long standing grudges/prejudices against heat pumps and thus isn't necessarily fair or accurate? Because I don't know if they actually are less reliable, but I do know there's a lot of HVAC techs out there who have a knee-jerk reaction that "heat pumps are bad".

My ac died and I replaced it and the 30 year old furnace with a heat pump and new furnace duel fuel system. The heat pump handles a portion of the heating, the furnace picks up the rest. So far its been fine, granted it was installed last fall.

[lhamo]

That is a REALLY good price for a heat pump system.  My brother is paying 30k for one today here in pricey Seattle.  We elected to just replace our gas furnace last year for 6k since we knew we would be selling the house -- heat pump would have been 10-15k...

[ChpBstrd]

$3500 for a central heat pump!???

Jesus, I just paid $10k year before last. JUMP. ON. THAT. DEAL.

[jrhampt]

Absolutely.  With the incentives, it's less than replacing the central AC with another central AC.  And it's more efficient.

[G-String]

$3500 for a central heat pump!???

Jesus, I just paid $10k year before last. JUMP. ON. THAT. DEAL.

It does cost around $10k (CAD), but we have $6500 in government rebates at the moment, which may be disappearing in March. 

[Photograph 51]

You need AC in Winnipeg?

[G-String]

You need AC in Winnipeg?

You really have no clue about Canada do you?  It amazes me how clueless some Americans are about Canada.  Do you think we all live in igloos and that we have snow year-round, and that we take toboggans to work?

To answer your question: yes.  Winnipeg has some of the most beautiful and hot summers. 

[Mod note: Let's maybe tone this down.  As a Canadian myself, I get the issue. It gets hot here in Ottawa and the humidity makes it much worse.]

[Photograph 51]

Your response was rude and obnoxious.  You owe me an apology.  I was suggesting the useful, practical option of refraining from using air conditioning. 

If you had said that you lived in most areas of the US, I would also have suggested the option of going without air conditioning.  Air conditioning is terrible for the environment and is a major cause of global warming.  Many people in most sub-tropical areas need to reevaluate their dependency on having their indoor environment be the exact temperature that they want it every moment of their lives.  I live a few hundred miles south of where you live, in a region with high humidity, and I don't ever use any air conditioning because I value the continuation of life on the planet more than I value being at a specific temperature. 

I looked up average summer temperatures for Winnipeg before posting and found that they are not that hot.  The sources that I looked at said that Winnipeg typically has highs around 80 degrees (F) in July and August.  Most people should have no trouble living without air conditioning in that kind of weather.  If you had said that you lived in Phoenix or Bangkok, I would have understood the need for air conditioning.  There are at least a billion people who live in extremely hot areas of this planet in which they actually are at risk of dying from heat, yet have no access to air conditioning.  Meanwhile, rich people in temperate climates complain about an 80 degree day.   

My suggestion that you at least consider going without air conditioning rather than spending thousands of dollars was a helpful, kind, appropriate suggestion.  If you don't want to do that, you could just keep reading.  Your insinuation that I am using caricatured stereotypes was mean and nasty.  If you don't want useful advice, don't ask for it.  I look forward to receiving your apology. 

[MOD NOTE: Sure, you could think of it that way.  But all you said was "You need AC in Winnipeg", not a dissertation on the philosophical underpinnings of mustachianism vis-a-vis discomfort levels  and the hedonic treadmill.  Anyway, you could both take a breather]

[Sibley]

OP, one reason why you might have heard that the heat pump doesn't last as long as the ac is that the heat pump is getting more usage than the ac.

An ac which runs for 2 months of the year (random time period) is of course going to have less wear and tear than a heat pump which is used for 5 months of the year. That doesn't mean that the heat pump is less reliable.

[G-String]

Your response was rude and obnoxious.  You owe me an apology.  I was suggesting the useful, practical option of refraining from using air conditioning. 

If you had said that you lived in most areas of the US, I would also have suggested the option of going without air conditioning.  Air conditioning is terrible for the environment and is a major cause of global warming.  Many people in most sub-tropical areas need to reevaluate their dependency on having their indoor environment be the exact temperature that they want it every moment of their lives.  I live a few hundred miles south of where you live, in a region with high humidity, and I don't ever use any air conditioning because I value the continuation of life on the planet more than I value being at a specific temperature. 

I looked up average summer temperatures for Winnipeg before posting and found that they are not that hot.  The sources that I looked at said that Winnipeg typically has highs around 80 degrees (F) in July and August.  Most people should have no trouble living without air conditioning in that kind of weather.  If you had said that you lived in Phoenix or Bangkok, I would have understood the need for air conditioning.  There are at least a billion people who live in extremely hot areas of this planet in which they actually are at risk of dying from heat, yet have no access to air conditioning.  Meanwhile, rich people in temperate climates complain about an 80 degree day.   

My suggestion that you at least consider going without air conditioning rather than spending thousands of dollars was a helpful, kind, appropriate suggestion.  If you don't want to do that, you could just keep reading.  Your insinuation that I am using caricatured stereotypes was mean and nasty.  If you don't want useful advice, don't ask for it.  I look forward to receiving your apology. 

[MOD NOTE: Sure, you could think of it that way.  But all you said was "You need AC in Winnipeg", not a dissertation on the philosophical underpinnings of mustachianism vis-a-vis discomfort levels  and the hedonic treadmill.  Anyway, you could both take a breather]

Every single new home in Winnipeg is built with central air conditioning.  And the vast majority of people use it on average 70 days per year. 

[G-String]

OP, one reason why you might have heard that the heat pump doesn't last as long as the ac is that the heat pump is getting more usage than the ac.

An ac which runs for 2 months of the year (random time period) is of course going to have less wear and tear than a heat pump which is used for 5 months of the year. That doesn't mean that the heat pump is less reliable.

Excellent point.  The one HVAC company I spoke with did say that the air sourced heat pumps were having a few issues and were less reliable than a traditional central ac. 

[Dancin'Dog]

That is a REALLY good price for a heat pump system.  My brother is paying 30k for one today here in pricey Seattle.  We elected to just replace our gas furnace last year for 6k since we knew we would be selling the house -- heat pump would have been 10-15k...

I've heard of some high prices for heat pumps, like $25-30K, but I don't understand how they can be that high.  We had one to replace one last year & another the year before.  They were 2.5 tons and cost $8,000 & $8500.  I wonder how they can cost $30,000 for some homes? 
When I checked the prices for the heat pumps online they ranged from about $2,500-$5,000 (depending on size & brand).  The labor only took about 5-6 hours.  It felt like they made a handsome profit at the price I paid.  It's hard to believe some HVAC contractors can charge $20-25K for less than one day of labor.  There must be some sort of difference that I'm not aware of.

[GilesMM]

OP, one reason why you might have heard that the heat pump doesn't last as long as the ac is that the heat pump is getting more usage than the ac.

An ac which runs for 2 months of the year (random time period) is of course going to have less wear and tear than a heat pump which is used for 5 months of the year. That doesn't mean that the heat pump is less reliable.

Excellent point.  The one HVAC company I spoke with did say that the air sourced heat pumps were having a few issues and were less reliable than a traditional central ac.

A decent heat pump should last 15-25 years.  It is not that complicated a device - a radiator, a pump and a fan more or less and some plumbing.  Replacing your gas furnace with a heat pump can be a very green solution depending on how green your electricity source is.  Our house is mostly electric and our utility in the PNW is about 97% green renewable (plus our own solar).

[Alternatepriorities]

I'm interested in hearing how an air source heat pump works in Winnipeg if you do install one. That price is cheaper than my brother's DIY in Seattle last year. No subsidies for his project that I know of. Well, I think he gamed the credit system at the store for 10%... He may have under shot on sizing though. He said the system struggled a bit with the last cold snap. Fortunately he has plenty of firewood on his property and a blaze king so the house was warm enough. I've been thinking of doing something like that if I build my own place from scratch. I'd insulate the heck out of it and then size the heat pump to keep it warm, but not comfortable and then I can use a wood stove, south facing windows, and thermal mass for the rest. I just need to be sure the house wont freeze up if I am not home in the winter.

[ChpBstrd]

In my area, it got down to 6 degrees Fahrenheit (-14.5 Celsius) last week and my heat pump never let the house get below temperature. In fact, I don't even think the emergency coils came on. It was installed 1.5 years ago, so perhaps it's better than the heat pumps which the old HVAC guys grouch about.

Heat pump performance degrades over time as the mechanical parts wear out. A gas furnace OTOH fails catastrophically when the burners rust out, the heat exchanger cracks, the thermocouple quits, etc. So the owner of a worn-out heat pump is more likely to be dissatisfied with its ability to heat the house economically because it is still working - sorta.