Should I buy a new car?

[meadow lark]

Because of our crazy economy, I am trying to decide at what price point it makes sense to trade my 2014 Prius for a 2022 Plug In Prius.  I’m going to go to the Toyota dealership tomorrow and get numbers, but it looks like a new Prius is approx $32K.  The federal tax rebate would be $4500 (soon to run out on Toyotas).  Making it equivalent to $27,500.  What is a reasonable amount to move from a good 8 yo car with 100k miles on it to a new car with a new warranty, etc?  I can pay in cash, but I will choose financing if the APR was good enough.  $8K seems obvious, $10K probably, $12k maybe? 

[ixtap]

Given this is MMM, what is the point of this trade in? I don't think you can make a good financial argument here for anything but keeping the current one.

That still leaves the personal arguments, but only you can decide what that cutoff is.

[meadow lark]

There is some dollar amount that is smart to pay to have a mechanically new car with a warranty and better gas mileage instead of an 8 yo car with 100k miles on it.  You may believe that is worth very little, say $100.  But there is an amount of money where this makes sense practically and over which it doesn’t.

[alsoknownasDean]

You're assuming there'll be new ones in stock and priced at or below MSRP?

Surely with the spike in gas prices anything somewhat fuel efficient has flown off the lots. A hybrid Rav4 has nearly a year-long wait between order and delivery here.

Used cars are expensive because new ones are either also expensive or hard to find.

[JLee]

Check dcu.org for financing - they offer another 0.25% off for sufficiently efficient vehicles.

I would be surprised if they have cars in stock / are selling at MSRP.  CarbuyerUSA offered me ~$4k more than I paid new for my 2yo Model 3 - the used car market is bananas right now.  Also given that, if you are able to get a new car at MSRP you may be able to sell yours private party for a lot more than you may think.

In any case, 100k on a Prius is barely broken in.

[BikeFanatic]

I think there is a value in having a new car because you do not want to break down nor do you want to have to be inconvenienced by going to the shop frequently for repairs, at least that is my opinion.  I sold a used nissan I drove to a friend because it was ten years old and I could predict a lot of repairs in the future, but with only 79K miles on it. My friend gave me 3500- first the dealer offered me 2,500 then they said 4K.  this was over a year ago. Now I wish I hung onto the car, oh well. The gas mileage was excellent.

SO I do not know at what point it is valued to have a new car vs an older ( but time tested valuable) prius. The gas mileage on the New plug in Prime is bound to be superior- due to the cost of gas vs electricity- I bet there is a prius forum where they talk about this very calculation. Then the longevity of Prius is legendary, I do not know anyone who has sold theirs, but I bet resale value is super high right now. ( I looked up my old 2011 toyota camary they want 8K for it, with 100K miles).

SO I guess my advice is to head on over to prius forums and see if they can help calculate  for you. The peace of mind of having a new car is somewhat valuable to me - I think 4-6K I would estimate, then the cost savings of a plug in that's pretty good number I bet, then if you have solar that would put the clean energy to good use.
I know we are at MMM but I do think that optimization also includes piece of mind, if you have the bandwidth to save every penny and optimize fully great for you, but some of us have to compromise here and there.

[Dicey]

Check dcu.org for financing - they offer another 0.25% off for sufficiently efficient vehicles.

I would be surprised if they have cars in stock / are selling at MSRP.  CarbuyerUSA offered me ~$4k more than I paid new for my 2yo Model 3 - the used car market is bananas right now.  Also given that, if you are able to get a new car at MSRP you may be able to sell yours private party for a lot more than you may think.

In any case, 100k on a Prius is barely broken in.

I was thinking the same thing.

Meadowlark, why do you care about a warranty on a Prius? Are you worried about the batteries?  Is it having any specific mechanical issues?

When I used to jones for a new car, I would calculate the sales tax. If that didn't work, I added in the first year's registration. If that still didn't work, I added the first year of depreciation. Then I would take a tiny sliver of that amount and get my car detailed, which made my old driver feel new. It worked every time.

Oh and walking into a Toyota dealership increases the likelihood that you will do this. They know every psychological trick in the book to convince you it's the only prudent decision.

[cool7hand]

There is some dollar amount that is smart to pay to have a mechanically new car with a warranty and better gas mileage instead of an 8 yo car with 100k miles on it.  You may believe that is worth very little, say $100.  But there is an amount of money where this makes sense practically and over which it doesn’t.

This is a question that only you can answer because the value of reliability is subjective. Make sure you are being reasonable for you with your fears and concerns when you set that value, and then don't worry that someone else sets a different value.

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

Can't remember if you have been thinking about buying a new car for a while, so if you have then ignore this.

But given all that you've got going on in your life right now, is wanting the new car more of a "hey here is something I can control" when so much else falls on the "holy shit" side?

[ixtap]

There is some dollar amount that is smart to pay to have a mechanically new car with a warranty and better gas mileage instead of an 8 yo car with 100k miles on it.  You may believe that is worth very little, say $100.  But there is an amount of money where this makes sense practically and over which it doesn’t.

I would be PISSED if my car didn't make it to at least 10yr and 150k with basic maintenance and small repairs. As a matter of fact, that is all I got out of my previous car and I was indeed rather unhappy about it. I was concerned when the warranty on the hybrid battery ran out on my 2010 Insight, but I would recommend you check on expectations for your particular Prius before you declare 8 years and 100k decrepit.

I am at 13 years, just over 150k and getting the rear window regulator replaced because that makes more economic sense than getting a new car while this one is working fine.

I did replace belts and hoses along with tires and brakes a couple of years ago (at about where you are now) to try to keep my baby on the road as long as possible. All of that was less than sales tax for me on a new Prius Prime.

Again, if there is a known issue with your car, replacing it may well be the best answer. But you seem to think just being 8 years old is an issue and for a Toyota, it shouldn't be.

[Paper Chaser]

"Human spends $30k to avoid the small chance of a few $300 repairs"

The OP reads more like a person that's trying to justify buying a new thing before the tax credit goes away than any reasonable financial decision or a fully considered choice about usable life.
The only reason this is even an option, is that you have the money to spend, and want something new. Sometimes life is more simple when you're poor because you can't stir yourself up into these kinds of internal debates.

[yachi]

I rarely owed enough in taxes for the federal tax rebate on electric cars to make much difference, so I'm surprised that so many people take it as a given in calculations like these.  But I agree with alsoknownasDean that you're unlikely to find something at MSRP quickly.  Also, keep in mind you're going to the same dealership for both the new car and your used car.  So they'll see both sides of the transaction and will tailor their pricing to not give you a stupid-crazy deal.

[meadow lark]

Got the numbers, it didn’t make financial sense.  So I didn’t do it.

Also, a plug in Prius was in stock and they told me they could probably get a regular Prius in within a month.  They also had a hybrid Corolla ( not a plug in) in stock.

Which seems pretty Mustachian to me - to actually have an idea, look at real numbers, and make a decision.  To actually go to a dealership and find out what was in stock and what the wait time was. Because I am a responsible adult, I am capable of walking into a dealership and not buying something. 

A lot of posters are just rude and insulting.  The automatic assumption, by many, was that I am an idiot.  Even though you don’t know me, I’ve been on this forum with a journal ( off and on) since it began, I FIRED on a nurse’s salary.  I asked a real question and instead of getting real answers like, “I think a new car is worth the value of a used car plus $1K per year old because X” (which is what I was estimating) I got people acting condescending and rude. 

The beauty of this forum is that a lot of people know more than I do about particular subjects.  The problem with this forum is that a lot of people use it to act like everyone else is an idiot.

ETA - a friend spoke to me and I realize I was overreacting and reading the comments from a lens that is different than the one that was probably intended.  I apologize for my reaction.

[Dicey]

And here I just thought people were trying to be helpful because you asked. Sorry you found the feedback not to your liking. I have a journal too. It's crazy long. Never when I post a freestanding thread on a specific topic do I expect anyone to answer based on anything other than the face value of the question I'm asking. You're a respected member of this community, but not everyone knows that or your backstory. If someone really was rude, we have a Report to Moderator button for that. We also have an awesome team of mods who keep things remarkably civil around here.

[PDXTabs]

A lot of posters are just rude and insulting.
...
The beauty of this forum is that a lot of people know more than I do about particular subjects.  The problem with this forum is that a lot of people use it to act like everyone else is an idiot.

We're just gently punching you in the face. It used to be a thing.

But seriously, you made the right choice. I have a 2014 Ford Focus with 125k miles on it and I wouldn't trade it in. I'll reconsider at 200k.

[BikeFanatic]

The sales tax and the excise taxes are really high on a new car where I live, so that would help in the nay department. But still, a plug in where you can go 30 miles on a charge would save me a ton in gas as 90 percent of my trips are 25 and under. Meadow lark, what king of mpg do you get with your old Prius?

[meadow lark]

After getting a personal reminder from a friend to chill out, I reread all the comments.  I overreacted.  I’m not going to pull down my post bc that seems dishonest.  But -@Dicey, you are correct. The vast majority of the comments were completely appropriate.

[joemandadman189]

There is some dollar amount that is smart to pay to have a mechanically new car with a warranty and better gas mileage instead of an 8 yo car with 100k miles on it.  You may believe that is worth very little, say $100.  But there is an amount of money where this makes sense practically and over which it doesn’t.

In the past, for us it was the point where the annual cost of repairs exceeded the (roughly) annual cost of payments on a new car or repairs exceed the value of the original car. This car also left DW stranded once or twice and she was over it.

My car is older, 2010, with roughly the same miles,  i could see getting a new vehicle any time in the next 0-3 years, not necessarily because of costs but because of size and growing kids.

[AccidentialMustache]

Not that it matters now since you have a decision, but it is worth considering that you know a lot about the state of the vehicle you have, but fairly little about a vehicle you buy. Sure it is "new". Plenty of "new" cars end up with recalls.

Our new EV (added a second car, unfortunately) had a recall at less than 6 months old. It has so far been in the shop for just shy of 10% of the time we've owned it.

Oh and I know we'll be back in, because one of the last three times it was in, the tech got the headliner greasy and dirty as hell and broke minor plastic clips so covers fall off. The dealership is ordering parts to make it better, but that'll be another day or two for install once they come in.

That's not counting the letter from the manufacturer which should have been mailed to me on Monday, telling me to take it to the dealer for software updates, because the manufacturer flubbed the over the air updates and now our car can't self-update anymore. In an ideal case that's one day, but practically speaking I don't expect my dealership to notice they need to order specific parts (ethernet cable, usb cable, usb to ethernet adapter) to be able to do the update. So they'll schedule it, take the car, and then realize "oh crud we have to order stuff." So who knows how long that'll take. At least they don't have to take much off for the software update, so I can probably get them to give it back to me after they realize they can't do it for days as they order equipment.

So yeah. Just sayin'. Sometimes, you should stick with ol' reliable.

A warranty isn't a guarantee against trouble. It is a guarantee that the manufacturer thinks you paid them more for it than it will cost them to fix the inevitable problems that crop up, on average, across their fleet.

[dhc]

There is some dollar amount that is smart to pay to have a mechanically new car with a warranty and better gas mileage instead of an 8 yo car with 100k miles on it.  You may believe that is worth very little, say $100.  But there is an amount of money where this makes sense practically and over which it doesn’t.

Even if you could justify the new car financially (which I agree can be done, but is much more likely with an actually-old car, not one of the most reliable cars with a measly 100k miles!), a large part of MMM considering cars harmful and wasteful seems related to the environmental impact of them. Going from a very fuel efficient hybrid to electric would probably have a significant negative impact, in that the resources required and emissions from production of the new car vastly exceed the ever-so-slight reduction in fuel consumption and emissions you’d have while driving it. Much better to drive the very good and efficiency one for at least 10 more years and another 100-200k.

[jnw]

Toyotas are the best made cars ever.  I have one that's 24 years old, with 240K miles, and it'll last me another 10 years easy.  Heck even the air conditioner still works as good as when I got over 10 years ago for $5000.  People drive Toyotas to 500k miles.  Changing the timing belt is about the only significant thing I've had to do to it.

That said, my Toyota doesn't have a battery in it and I don't know how long the batteries last in Prius.  It's a hybrid right? So it uses a battery as well?  I've seen that used batteries are really expensive. I don't have to worry about that problem with my all gas Toyota.

[Dicey]

Toyotas are the best made cars ever.  I have one that's 24 years old, with 240K miles, and it'll last me another 10 years easy.  Heck even the air conditioner still works as good as when I got over 10 years ago for $5000.  People drive Toyotas to 500k miles.  Changing the timing belt is about the only significant thing I've had to do to it.

That said, my Toyota doesn't have a battery in it and I don't know how long the batteries last in Prius.  It's a hybrid right? So it uses a battery as well?  I've seen that used batteries are really expensive. I don't have to worry about that problem with my all gas Toyota.

Funny, DH just nentioned that Prius batteries actually aren't crazy expensive. The trick is not to buy them from the dealer. He also said it's important to keep the connecting cables clean.

[VanillaGorilla]

As the owner of a 2013 Prius with 125,000 miles on it I would vote against the plugin.

1.) Priuses are widely known as superbly reliable. 100k miles is about 1/2 to 1/3 of the expected lifespan, depending on where you live and how hard a life the car lives. So far my personal experience over the last 75,000 miles has been nothing but oil changes, and a 5 minute MAF sensor replacement.

2.) I get a true 49 mpg driving around my city. The plug in hybrid's EV range is 25 miles, so if you drive 10,000 miles a year and half of those are electric, you will save at best $600 a year (at $6 a gallon and free electricity).

3.) The new car will cost far more than $600 a year, as registration and insurance will cost that much and depreciation on a new prius is at least $3000 a year. I bought my Prius when it was five years old for $12,000, so it lost roughly $15,000 in value over the first five years of its life.

Gen3 batteries don't die. Even if they do they're fixable. Even if you have to replace the whole battery it's still cheaper than owning a new car for two years. If you're worried about the reliability of your ten year old car, maybe consider bringing it to a mechanic and having them look for any potential problems? After ignoring my car for several years and just driving it I'm in that camp myself.

Now, if you're tired of your car and simply want a new one, and are willing to pay a premium of about $4,000 per year over what you have, then go for it.

[darkskys]

I definitely say keep it. It’s not even that old yet and the shine of a new car wears off quick.

I’d only start looking to replace it if the cost and inconvenience of keeping it is greater than your desire to keep it and save the money. Seems like you are a little ways from this though.