The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Ask a Mustachian => Topic started by: stratozyck on April 08, 2016, 10:36:19 AM
-
I got married a little over a year ago. When we got married I had no financial concerns - she had a job of similar income as mine. We were friends for many years before and she was able to pay off her student loan debt while working in graduate school. I was impressed by that.
On the day we went to her parents to tell them of our engagement (this was also the first time I met them), she got a call about her "dream job." She had talked to them before and when we were friends, I told her I thought it was a BS offer. It was a startup run by a guy with more dreams than business sense.
How could I be negative on that day? In front of her parents she said, "this is the best day of my life - introducing my future husband to my parents and getting my dream job!" How could I have pulled her aside and been like, is this really a good idea?
Fast forward some time. The dream job stopped paying her two months into it. She had bought a house a year earlier at a 15 year term for admittedly a decent rate. But suddenly, she had no income (or much in savings) and I was still contracted for my apartment for another two months. I suddenly was stuck with two payments. Oh, and she was pregnant (ok my fault on that one). Then I find out the payment she had told me was "adjusted" in that she told me how much she paid after her roommate paid her rent. Roommate left suddenly and she had no rental contract. She refused to consider going back to previous job.
The job was obviously BS. All these people had was artists concepts of what they wanted to do. Its like they spent all their time on posters, models, etc and never go around to actually doing anything. They are no longer around. She wants to sue them but I keep saying - theres nothing to get. There are no assets, no buildings, to recover from.
Suddenly now she's decided she is ok with being a stay at home mom and "respects her mom for doing whatever she wanted to do career wise." Her mom apparently was a lawyer that took mostly low paying/volunteer stuff while her dad worked at a cubicle job. Her mom also drives a BMW. Now my wife wants to do similar work. She's trying to pass herself off as a "consultant" and wants to write a book. She is a smart girl but gets tunnel vision on ideas that if others say is unrealistic she takes it hard. I casually mentioned that you know, to be a consultant you have to have industry experience. She keeps saying she has 15 years experience (she is counting internships going back to high school, in reality she has 1 year of full time work after school).
I've been trying to hold the line. She wants to take two vacations this year. We simply *must* go see her family across the country. Oh, and the reason she took that risky job is she got advice from an "executive coach" she was paying $400 a month to listen to.
Ok, its all settled now - I am only paying the one living expense now. But every few months I can't help but bring it up. I am not asking for much - she continues to say that buying the house was a great idea. Taking the risky job was a great idea. I keep saying "if it weren't for me you would be foreclosing." In the back of my mind, I wonder if I hadn't married her, if she would have at least learned the lesson of "don't take a risky job if you have a mortgage."
I get occasionally mad now and then because she has to have a career she "loves" because she "loves" her work. She is unemployed. I took a job I tolerate because it pays. She won't even consider taking a job she "tolerates."
-
That is a long rambling story, but the basic I got was: "Pregnant wife loses job, has trouble paying the mortgage. Husband is mad he had to pay double payments for two months and now has to support his wife and child by working an OK job."
Is that fair? Because honestly, first my thought is, and forgive me because this is going to come off as very old school, but you are the goddamn husband. It is *your* job to pay the bills above and beyond everything else. If she wants to be a stay at home mom, you should support her. Honestly, its probably for the best considering her poor decision making.
Anyway, your story sort of fades and is somewhat contradictory. Is she a SAHM or is she looking for work? Why did she buy a house after you were married(or while you were engaged) unless it was a joint decision. Lots of other little things not adding up, as if we are only hearing part of the story.
-
I would be upset too. I don't think it is normal although it might be common. All of it seems one sided, all of it rotating around her happiness. She is not acting like an adult. Adults sometimes (ok, often) have to do things they don't like including a paying job that they may not love. The thing is she has you so she feels she has the right to not be an adult because you are taking care of her.
-
I don't necessarily agree with AZDude that as the husband paying all the bills is your default responsibility. I think it should be a decision that both people in the relationship make together. However it sounds like the two of you never really talked about future plans that included family, financial, career, etc and now you are in this situation and bills have to be paid.
You knew while you were engaged to her that she was essentially without a paycheck, yet you still married her.
"I keep saying "if it weren't for me you would be foreclosing." "
^^^ This does not help. Phrases like this only creates anger and resentment within each of you, so stop saying it.
If you are looking for advice on what to do, I would suggest getting rid of all the anger first, because it doesn't help with clear thinking. Then ask her what she wants to do. The two of you should talk (and it most likely won't happen in one talk) about all the things that were never discussed, including an alternative plan. Being a SAHM might be the job she loves and doesn't want to rejoin the workforce. For better or for worse you guys are a team now, so it is time to start working as a team and talking (calmly and without finger pointing).
Marriage counseling also wouldn't hurt.
-
I second the counseling idea.
-
If she is pregnant and/or you have a very young child, it seems to me that this would be a good time for her to stay home for a while if you can afford it financially. If you can't, then she needs to at least seek something that is paying part-time.
I think you were right in supporting her to try her dream job. If she hadn't done it because you were against it, she would probably resent you for it at some point.
I think the two of you need to have a frank discussion and decide on your joint goals and try to come up with a plan that you both can work towards. It's not fair for one spouse to have to change all of their plans and goals to satisfy the other spouse. It needs to be a partnership working together to try to make sure both partners are fulfilled to the extent possible.
-
Your concern seems to be that she is both deciding not to work and not changing her spending patterns. Leaving you with a lot of financial stress.
Therefore, as part of your frank (and supportive) discussion it seems that you need an agreement that if your wife wants to be a SAHM that is fine, but there will be some drawbacks such as less vacations, eating out, etc.
If she is unwilling to change after hearing your concerns in a rational and productive manner, then I suppose counseling would be a must.
But for now, I think she just needs to hear your concerns in a productive manner and you need to understand where she is coming from as well.
-
You were engaged when she took the dream job, then you married her? Sounds like you were ignoring red flags. See if she can come around to your thinking eventually, but being condescending isn't going to help.
-
I think a good marriage counselor can help you both sort this out. It sounds like she wants the kind of life her parents want but you both have to want the same things or have to both compromise. Marriage is usually about compromise. 1 person does not get to call all the shots and it seems like she is trying to dictate both spending and her not working.
-
......... honestly, first my thought is, and forgive me because this is going to come off as very old school, but you are the goddamn husband. It is *your* job to pay the bills above and beyond everything else. If she wants to be a stay at home mom, you should support her. Honestly, its probably for the best considering her poor decision making.
I tend to agree
Interestingly, there's an ongoing topic in Beancounter's thread discussing the 'male privilege thing'. Maybe there is a 'male responsibilities thing' too.
Classic case of a couple with no foundation under the relationship. House built on sand... shows cracks.
Good luck to you and your wife OP, and congratulations on the kiddo!
-
Too bad about the kid. I would not put up with it if it were me. I have a goal of retiring early and if my spouse decided to stay home and make me support him working several extra years, screw that. Your life and happiness are not less important than hers.
-
I completely disagree with AZDude and acroy, incomes are a shared duty unless otherwise agreed previously.
If you are comfortable with her remaining a SAHM indefinitely going forward that is fine, but it is not your duty to compensate for her change of mind as far as lifestyle goes if that was not agreed upon previously.
I agree with the common advise though as far as having a honest discussion as far as plans or going to counseling. I would say even if you agree with her becoming a SAHM I would not agree with still going on 2 vacations in a year after taking a heavy financial cut. If she is not willing to cut back along with no longer contributing to the financial side of the marriage while at the same time expecting a child too that would raise some serious flags for me.
I would say that getting pregnant while in a financially precarious situation is going to put a strain on both your finances and your relationship with her too.
Hopefully though if you argue it from the perspective that improving your financial situation by cutting expenses is absolutely necessary to give the best start in life for your baby she might concede to that.
If you are currently sharing household responsibilities equally I would say if she was taking over household duties and you reduced eating out and going out to expensive events you could work a little extra over time every day and have just as much free time plus with less spending that would compensate some too. You would still take a hit but it can be mitigated some depending on your current lifestyle.
Also with being a stay at home parent come other responsibilities such as taking up a larger part of the house work and working on things such as preparing meals saving you money on eating out and freeing you up to potentially put in some more hours at work that would otherwise be spent on doing those chores. I would also make sure that is part of the deal too if she wants to stay at home.
-
But every few months I can't help but bring it up. ...I keep saying "if it weren't for me you would be foreclosing."
I read this and I think you need to just let the past be the past. For the good of the family you need to look forward. Counseling sounds like a good idea.
-
Agree that if one person stays home their job is to make the person that works job easier which means doing all the laundry, cleaning, etc and finding ways to save $, like cooking the meals, etc. Having a baby is not a f.t. job but it is if she does everything else too.
-
Sahm here...
Is it normal for a woman to not want to work full time after having a baby?
Absolutely....very few women want to leave their baby with a nanny or daycare every day. Most want to work part time or stay home. Unfortunately many women don't realize this until they actually have a baby and their change of heart takes their partner by surprise.
Is it okay for a nonworking partner to demand a 2 income lifestyle?
Absolutely not. I believe the sahm has a duty to be financial defense for her family and take saving and budgeting seriously. It seems like the best sahms tend to be modern versions of the old school farmers wife archetype: hardworking, giving, thrifty. Spendy, high maintenance, and demanding are terrible qualities for a stay at home spouse. Sahms are workhorses....they do the dirty work no one sees or pays for, so any woman who wants to be one needs to be able to find a certain level of contentment in doing important but nearly invisible work. Your wife sounds like she is very worried about self fulfillment and self actualization in her work....she may not last long as a sahm.
Is it normal for a sahm to want a creative outlet?
Yup...but it cant take away from her job of caring for the family and watching the finances or else her working partner will rightfully feel like they are being taken for a ride.
-
But every few months I can't help but bring it up. ...I keep saying "if it weren't for me you would be foreclosing."
I read this and I think you need to just let the past be the past. For the good of the family you need to look forward. Counseling sounds like a good idea.
I sort of agree and don't agree.
I feel like you need to have an in depth talk about your plans which will include the things that happened in the past that are still having a financial impact. However once you have had this talk or gone through counseling you need to let go if you come to an agreement as far as what the two of you are planning financially. If you don't it is only going to build up resentment on both sides.
-
I don't think either of your are right or wrong... just lack of communication and expectations going forward.
You are a "team" now... act as one. Go have a talk so both of you are on the same page (probably should have done that before marriage but whatever.
stop bringing up past things and regrets, etc... it'll tear your relationship apart. Talk, plan, agree, move forward.
-
My wife once told me that maybe she would like to be a sahm.
I said "sure, I would like to quit my job to be a sahd too. I would have time to study physics part time like I always wanted! That's so much better than working a boring job. Which one of us should do it then?"
I'm not a career person and neither is she. We both want to quit our job so it would be unfair that only one of us did. We agree on that. The solution is that we will make sure that we both quit at the same time soon enough. FIRE FTW.
-
That is a long rambling story, but the basic I got was: "Pregnant wife loses job, has trouble paying the mortgage. Husband is mad he had to pay double payments for two months and now has to support his wife and child by working an OK job."
Is that fair? Because honestly, first my thought is, and forgive me because this is going to come off as very old school, but you are the goddamn husband. It is *your* job to pay the bills above and beyond everything else. If she wants to be a stay at home mom, you should support her. Honestly, its probably for the best considering her poor decision making.
Anyway, your story sort of fades and is somewhat contradictory. Is she a SAHM or is she looking for work? Why did she buy a house after you were married(or while you were engaged) unless it was a joint decision. Lots of other little things not adding up, as if we are only hearing part of the story.
I see a woman who is still making life decisions as if she were the only one affected, rather than understanding that she and her husband are now a team. And I see a husband who doesn't know how to talk to her about this.
-
I think you should chill out and support your wife and kid while the kid is young. Get over your salty feelings and consider yourself luck you have the ABILITY to support your wife and kid. Ignore that your wife made stupid job and financial decisions right out of college.
Then, maybe when your kid is 3 years old or something, be direct with your wife and lay out your financial numbers. Tell her you want more income so the both of you can save money and become FI.
One thing for sure: get over yourself and shutup and support wife and kid. If you didn't want to get somebody pregnant you shouldn't be ejaculating inside of women.
-
I think you should chill out and support your wife and kid while the kid is young. Get over your salty feelings and consider yourself luck you have the ABILITY to support your wife and kid. Ignore that your wife made stupid job and financial decisions right out of college.
Then, maybe when your kid is 3 years old or something, be direct with your wife and lay out your financial numbers. Tell her you want more income so the both of you can save money and become FI.
One thing for sure: get over yourself and shutup and support wife and kid. If you didn't want to get somebody pregnant you shouldn't be ejaculating inside of women.
Putting off this discussion till 3 years in I can only see as going disastrous. If you don't bring this up now 3 years down the line the changes will have been engrained already and that much harder to make changes. He absolutely needs to address these things before they have a kid not 3 years after.
Also he does not carry more responsibility for what the two of them did together.
-
There are a lot of people eager to adopt a child. Throw out some feelers and see what kind of price your 1st born would fetch on the open market to offset the costs of housing. Worst case scenario you manage to avoid all the costs of childcare. If it's profitable enough, you might be able to make a lucrative side business while allowing your wife to remain unemployed.
-
You can't be an industry expert with 1 year of full time experience.
Also, her being a SAHM is both your decision.
Geesh, good luck.
-
Communication is a must!!! Neither of you can read what the other one is thinking.
-
Not sure if this has been brought up before, but all the stuff you have described seem symptoms, and the underlying issue seems to be one of not fundamentally respecting your wife as an equal (e.g., you are judging her mom's choice of job as something unworthy, considering her pregnancy as your "fault" - and I'm not judging you, just noticing patterns jump out of your post). The two of you seem to value different things in life and the only way to reconcile is from within.
Not sure if anything people reply here can be useful. If you and your spouse are not good at introspection, might need professional help. Treat the disease, and not the symptoms.
-
There are a lot of people eager to adopt a child. Throw out some feelers and see what kind of price your 1st born would fetch on the open market to offset the costs of housing. Worst case scenario you manage to avoid all the costs of childcare. If it's profitable enough, you might be able to make a lucrative side business while allowing your wife to remain unemployed.
I have a modest proposal: https://books.google.com/books/about/A_Modest_Proposal.html?id=eSBEAwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false (https://books.google.com/books/about/A_Modest_Proposal.html?id=eSBEAwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false)
-
I disagree with those saying the mother has the right to stay home. You're a team, you made the baby together, you're both responsible for taking care of the family in whichever way you both agree on. (You SAHD while she works (after recovering from childbirth), Her SAHM while you work, Both work FT with FT Daycare, PT arrangements etc. SAHM and SAHD should be EQUALLY viable all else equal.
As others have said, communication is key. Mistakes were made here and while it's important to not dwell on them and keep bringing them up, it's worth understanding what happened and develop a plan to fix it. Do NOT continue to bring up 'If it weren't for me you'd be foreclosing', that sounds so toxic.
It sounds like your wife wanting to sue them means she at least understands fully that her 'dream job' was a sham there. If I were her I'd be embarrassed, angry, upset and likely try to get back into the job where I was making a similar income to you. You can't force her to do that, but you can outline expectations and develop shared goals (retire by X, pay off house by X) and have the plans in place to hit them (she goes back to work, you cut expenses by 30%, etc)
-
I'm sorry you are finding yourself unhappy in life. Only seeing your side of the story, I can't be too helpful. But it's clear that you have a lot of resentment towards her and I am certain that this is not healthy for your relationship. You are not on the same page with her on a number of issues. It's better to have done this *before* getting married, but water under the bridge. I don't know how well you two communicate, but counseling may be a great idea. If you don't work through this somehow I foresee you both being miserable for a long time or no longer together (and perhaps still miserable). These seem to be pretty big issues and not the taking out the garbage or hanging up a towel kind that you can get by ignoring for too long. Good luck!
-
I definitely think it's fair to be upset in this situation, but I'm biased. I'm in a similar one with a husband who quit his steady job one month after we got married to pursue training for a different career (which he didn't complete) and has now been in a purely commission-based job for going on two years earning less than minimum wage. I have a stable, tolerable job that I am not a huge fan of. It's trying being the emotionally and financially stable one with no end in sight. There's been personal therapy and marriage counseling galore, the prior being very helpful and the latter being moderately so but still a work in progress.
Things that have been helpful to me:
- Realizing I am choosing to keep this job I tolerate because I like the security it provides me. He isn't trapping me in this job.
- He will never fulfill the deep need I have for security, and it's unfair to expect him to (but it is fair to expect him to fulfill some of my needs, some of the time).
- That part of being emotionally an adult is being able to say to someone else "I need X, can we work together to figure out how to get/do it?
-
I'm kind of amazed at the number of people who think its OK for a man who gets his fiance/wife pregnant to demand that she immediately go back to work after having the baby and shirk his responsibility to provide for his family. I made sure my wife knew when she had our child that if she wanted to stay home, she could(and that going back to work was also totally OK).
-
I can't address normalcy, but it sounds emotionally unhealthy.
Given that it seems you two haven't communicated well about finances, I would guess your wife has a different sense of "enough." Have you discussed early retirement with her? If not, she may think you're crazy for focusing on money when (if?) you're paying the bills. You two need to talk about your financial goals AND your emotions around money (everyone has them). How much saving do you need to feel comfortable? How much does she need? Is being a SAHM her dream, or is she waiting for the right opportunity to open up and go back to work eventually? Does she want to go part-time? Would that make you feel more comfortable financially and like she is contributing? Then, as a team, you need to figure out how to weigh what she wants vs. what you want.
This is all very hard work, and it won't happen unless you are both actively engaged. Given that there's already simmering (boiling?) tension on the issue, I think a martial counselor would be a great idea. My advice to you is to approach the situation with the assumption that your wife has good intentions but just sees the situation very differently than you do. Empathy will make this whole process go much more smoothly.
Good luck!
-
I'm kind of amazed at the number of people who think its OK for a man who gets his fiance/wife pregnant to demand that she immediately go back to work after having the baby and shirk his responsibility to provide for his family. I made sure my wife knew when she had our child that if she wanted to stay home, she could(and that going back to work was also totally OK).
I don't think there is a wrong or right way for the man to feel, other than they should have discussed employment decisions BEFORE bringing a baby in the mix. In general I feel those type of decisions should be joint.
-
He did not get her pregnant, they got her pregnant. It takes two.
Also he is not more responsible to taking responsibility to provide for their family, though responsibility can be taken in multiple ways as I mentioned before.
If she wants to be a stay at home mom and this was not agreed upon before getting married then that is a decision they both need to make since it impacts them both and she can not expect to live at the same level of expenses at his expense if she wants to do this. The one that did it for me is expecting two vacations in a year after losing your job and deciding to be a SAHM. I might be interpreting this wrong but this does not show me she fully realizes the situation they are in. If she was willing to cut back to compensate for the reduction in income and work on cost saving measures using the free time she will have being a SAHM then I would say if the OP agrees to it, it can be fair enough. It is hard to know the whole situation of course only knowing part of half the the story, but saying shut up and do your duties is not the way to respond in my opinion given the little information we do have.
If they are expecting a child they both have a responsibility to have their financial life as stable as can be by that time. He does not have a one way responsibility to her, but they both do towards their baby.
-
Just sounds like you guys need to talk, perhaps with a counselor of some kind, to level set. You both seem to have unspoken expectations and it's creating unnecessary tension.
Marriage is a team sport. I don't think one spouse or the other is more responsible for providing the cash, but both do need to participate in the planning of how that cash is going to get raised, and how lives are going to be lived.
If you have a kid, this is by far the last time you guys are going to disagree on how things should be done. You guys need to learn to communicate effectively, like, yesterday.
-
Is the "you shouldn't be a SAHM" a younger generation thing? I'm not that old, am I?
I mean, legitimately like half the posters in this thread believe a man should be able to look at his wife and tell her she *has* to get a job after the baby is born? All other issues aside, and there are plenty, this just feels very wrong to me. No one is backing me up on this?
-
Not quite, she doesn't "have" to, this is a joint decision. She doesn't "get" to either if they don't agree on it and this was not discussed before marrying.
It's a matter that a marriage is a partnership and decisions are not unilateral. One party does not get to make the decision that affects both. These kinds of things need to be discussed and come to an agreement on.
If the understanding at the time they got married was that she would be contributing financially, this is implied if she was working/attempting to work at this time and did not discuss otherwise, then once she would like to change this they have to agree on a new plan. Would it be fair if he decided he wants to go back to college to get a degree and put them thousands in debt to pursue a risky dream career if she did not agree to this first?
-
AZ Dude, flip it around. Would you say it's ok for him to tell his wife she *has* to be a SAHM after she has the kid? That's pretty 'old school'... and not in a good way. Certainly not a healthy relationship.
I think other posters have it right.
-
A few random thoughts:
- Can you move past the crappy job decision? You know it was a bad decision; deep down, she knows it was a bad decision; and she doesn't want to hear you say "I told you so" anymore. Besides, what's done is done.
- I agree with the others here about counseling. You two have a lot to talk through.
- I guess you assumed she'd continue working full-time after baby was born? Did you two not discuss it? (Again...counseling.)
- I can understand how you would feel like she pulled a "bait and switch" on you, given that it appears things weren't discussed.
- Does she want to work? Yes, but only part-time? Doing what? Or no, she really doesn't want to work?
- If she really wants to be a SAHM, how about making money at it by watching a few more kids?
End of random thoughts.
-
Is the "you shouldn't be a SAHM" a younger generation thing? I'm not that old, am I?
I mean, legitimately like half the posters in this thread believe a man should be able to look at his wife and tell her she *has* to get a job after the baby is born? All other issues aside, and there are plenty, this just feels very wrong to me. No one is backing me up on this?
I see the discussion more along the lines of it shouldn't have been a unilateral decision. There are a lot of SAHM/SAHDs on these forums, with little to no problem. The problem lies in how the decision was made.
-
If its a joint decision, then that means the man could tell her that she *has* to get a job. Clearly, these sorts of things should be talked about, but ultimately, if a woman wants to stay home with your baby and take care of it, you, as a man, should accept that wholeheartedly and provide for your family.
Would it be fair if he decided he wants to go back to college to get a degree and put them thousands in debt to pursue his dream career if she did not agree to this first?
Entirely different scenario since there is no child involved, but to answer your question, it would depend on the financial situation of the couple and the realistic career goals of the man.
-
I agree with the counseling recommendation. You have a communication problem.
It sounds like she is deliberately hiding the truth with regards to money (not telling you about the roommate thing, paying a lot for a 'coach' service you did not know about). This is inexcusable when you have to be the same "team" working together! However, if your attitude is that she should fall over herself with gratitude that you keep her from bankruptcy and you come across as judgmental, then it might explain why she doesn't feel like she can tell you the truth.
You need a joint plan moving forward to raise your kid together.
-
AZ Dude, flip it around. Would you say it's ok for him to tell his wife she *has* to be a SAHM after she has the kid?
No, definitely not. In fact, nothing I have said would even suggest that I would be OK with that scenario. Flip it around and say Dad wants to scale back his work hours so he can spend more time with the LO(something I did myself at one point in time). In that situation, it would be wrong for the wife to say "No, you need to keep working as much as possible". That would be wrong.
-
Definite old school, although here in Canada we allow 1 yr parental leave JOINT between Parents. Although the mother has to take the 1st 6 weeks of it, or something like that.
I think it's situation based as well... for example let's say.
I make $100k per yr
She makes $30k per yr
we have a kid... I would straight up say it is pointless for her to go back to work and just stay be SAHM until public school. Why? Daycare will eat up $20k+ per yr and also quality parenting time is missing. Working a full yr for 'peanuts' is not worth it.
Now reverse it, it would be unacceptable for her to be a SAHM if she is by FAR the 'breadwinner' imho.
That said, the 1st 1-3yrs for a mom is TOUGH... so yes if finances weren't a HUGE priority, i would definitely take the financial burden without issue (and have).
Is the "you shouldn't be a SAHM" a younger generation thing? I'm not that old, am I?
I mean, legitimately like half the posters in this thread believe a man should be able to look at his wife and tell her she *has* to get a job after the baby is born? All other issues aside, and there are plenty, this just feels very wrong to me. No one is backing me up on this?
-
If its a joint decision, then that means the man could tell her that she *has* to get a job. Clearly, these sorts of things should be talked about, but ultimately, if a woman wants to stay home with your baby and take care of it, you, as a man, should accept that wholeheartedly and provide for your family.
Would it be fair if he decided he wants to go back to college to get a degree and put them thousands in debt to pursue his dream career if she did not agree to this first?
Entirely different scenario since there is no child involved, but to answer your question, it would depend on the financial situation of the couple and the realistic career goals of the man.
And this is where I strongly disagree, in both situations the other spouse are choosing to be a financial burden and changing the plans that were expected when they got married. This is fine if both come to an agreement that works for both, but forcing someone in to a financial position that was not agreed upon is a form of abuse.
The bottom line is you are equals in marriage and this means both parties have equal input in the financial decisions that get made. As far as their situation they can either discuss it/go to counseling and come to an agreement or slowly watch as their marriage breaks apart due to mounting resentment on both sides, which will be no more in the child's interest.
-
So stay-at-home-moms are actually abusing their husbands?
Interesting... anyway, I have to get back to work, but thanks for the discussion.
-
If its a joint decision, then that means the man could tell her that she *has* to get a job. Clearly, these sorts of things should be talked about, but ultimately, if a woman wants to stay home with your baby and take care of it, you, as a man, should accept that wholeheartedly and provide for your family.
Would it be fair if he decided he wants to go back to college to get a degree and put them thousands in debt to pursue his dream career if she did not agree to this first?
Entirely different scenario since there is no child involved, but to answer your question, it would depend on the financial situation of the couple and the realistic career goals of the man.
This sounds too much like the 1950s. Women are just as responsible as men are for providing for their family financially. Unfortunately, a huge block in this is that there is a serious gender gap between men and women for pay. Just because a couple has a child doesn't mean that the man is solely responsible for the financial livelihood of his family. They are both adults and equally responsible.
To the OP, demanding to be a princess of having a two income lifestyle while demanding to stay home is not okay. It's also not okay to refuse to admit your past mistakes. I suggest marriage counseling as others have said, but if it doesn't work out, be sure to remember this lesson for any future spouses.
-
I am really shocked that there are so many people on here basically telling OP to "be a man" and suck it up to "provide for his family." Give me a minute to double-check the year.
OK, now that we've established that we're firmly in 2016, my advice would be having a serious reality check with your wife. A lot of people are advising marriage counseling, which I back 100%. Counseling saved my young marriage when my husband was having trouble completing his degree, and I was burning out working 2 jobs. The other form of counseling you might need is financial counseling. Your wife doesn't seem to have a grip on the lifestyle you can afford. If she won't listen to you, maybe you need to take your numbers to an (independent, hourly) financial professional and have them back you up. I'm not sure if your wife is someone who can be reasoned with.
Only you know if this is salvageable. I know that I couldn't put up with this level of selfishness, but we do only have one side of the story.
-
So stay-at-home-moms are actually abusing their husbands?
Interesting... anyway, I have to get back to work, but thanks for the discussion.
If she is forcing him to take on all the financial responsibilities against his will and prior agreement, forcing him to work to support their lifestyle prior to her losing her job and deciding to be a SAHM then yes.
The discussion is pretty limited without knowing exactly what their prior financial situation was before nor them having a discussion about what they both are expecting out of the marriage and knowing what exactly she is expecting as far as lifestyle adjustments if she became a SAHM. However as a general rule one party does not get to change the financial plan unilaterally and if they force this it is indeed a form of abuse.
-
One more vote for a trip to a professional counselor. I think you need somebody that can make her see how what she's doing is unfair... or help you see how you're being unfair given that we are only hearing one side of the story.
Oh, and I've got a question for all y'all smart folks out there. Between my sister-in-law and her wife, which one should I tell to stand up and be the breadwinner, and which one should I tell to stay home to clean the house and raise the kid?
-
One more vote for a trip to a professional counselor. I think you need somebody that can make her see how what she's doing is unfair... or help you see how you're being unfair given that we are only hearing one side of the story.
Oh, and I've got a question for all y'all smart folks out there. Between my sister-in-law and her wife, which one should I tell to stand up and be the breadwinner, and which one should I tell to stay home to clean the house and raise the kid?
You shouldn't tell them anything. They should discuss and decide on their own.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
-
Fairly certain dougules was going for sarcasm. Showing that standards held decades ago do not really apply to relationships today.
-
So clearly there have been some mistakes made. Situation now: you have some responsibilities. A child, most importantly, and also the house. The conversation you and your wife need to have - without recriminations on how much she fucked up with her job situation - is:
1. What can you afford to do this year, given the job situation?
2. What can each of you do to communicate better about money?
3. What is the future financial plan?
Also - can you refinance to a 30 year? That might give you a little more breathing room.
-
Your post demonstrates a lot of contempt for your wife. Since I don't know you or her, I can't know for certain if it is earned or not.
I would also recommend marriage counseling.
-
I can't tell what the OP wants. For his wife to go back to work full-time permanently? For his wife to go back to work until he can find a job that he likes better? For his wife to admit that she made bad choices about her house/finances/job so that he can be proven "right"? What I can see is that there is apparently a young child in the picture (I think, this timeline of engaged/married/pregnant/unemployed is really hard to follow) and OP has not said one word about trying to figure out what is best for the baby and getting them both on the same page to accomplish that. All I hear about is what he wants, and what he says/thinks she wants. I think that is partially what some of the other posters are reacting to, although I don't necessarily agree that "shut up and pay the bills, manly person" is the correct response. I also don't hear the OP giving his wife any credit for the hard work she is doing as a SAHP. Since we know nothing about the income and expenses of this household, or the costs of said trips, two vacations a year (with one being to bring baby to visit family) may or may not be unreasonable.
What I can tell is that we have two people who think and communicate very differently, and seem to operate under different, unstated assumptions they are both attached to, who have somehow managed to become a merged legal entity and produce a child who will link them forever. So yes, instead of worrying about who is or was right and wrong, use whatever resources you have to develop some communication skills and a common plan, stat.
-
I can't tell what the OP wants. For his wife to go back to work full-time permanently? For his wife to go back to work until he can find a job that he likes better? For his wife to admit that she made bad choices about her house/finances/job so that he can be proven "right"? What I can see is that there is apparently a young child in the picture (I think, this timeline of engaged/married/pregnant/unemployed is really hard to follow) and OP has not said one word about trying to figure out what is best for the baby and getting them both on the same page to accomplish that. All I hear about is what he wants, and what he says/thinks she wants. I think that is partially what some of the other posters are reacting to, although I don't necessarily agree that "shut up and pay the bills, manly person" is the correct response. I also don't hear the OP giving his wife any credit for the hard work she is doing as a SAHP. Since we know nothing about the income and expenses of this household, or the costs of said trips, two vacations a year (with one being to bring baby to visit family) may or may not be unreasonable.
What I can tell is that we have two people who think and communicate very differently, and seem to operate under different, unstated assumptions they are both attached to, who have somehow managed to become a merged legal entity and produce a child who will link them forever. So yes, instead of worrying about who is or was right and wrong, use whatever resources you have to develop some communication skills and a common plan, stat.
I interpreted that she was still pregnant, but wanting to be a SAMP, however after rereading it is not clear which of the two it is currently.
-
Ok, its all settled now - I am only paying the one living expense now. But every few months I can't help but bring it up. I am not asking for much - she continues to say that buying the house was a great idea. Taking the risky job was a great idea. I keep saying "if it weren't for me you would be foreclosing." In the back of my mind, I wonder if I hadn't married her, if she would have at least learned the lesson of "don't take a risky job if you have a mortgage."
I get occasionally mad now and then because she has to have a career she "loves" because she "loves" her work. She is unemployed. I took a job I tolerate because it pays. She won't even consider taking a job she "tolerates."
Let bygones be bygones. No good comes of bringing it up repeatedly. It just makes you sound petty. What do you want her to do? Pay you back for those 2 months? You're married now. You share assets. Her paying you back wouldn't do anything to your joint financial situation.
You can discuss what your needs, as a family, are going forward, but leave the past out of it.
-
My wife once told me that maybe she would like to be a sahm.
I said "sure, I would like to quit my job to be a sahd too. I would have time to study physics part time like I always wanted! That's so much better than working a boring job. Which one of us should do it then?"
I'm not a career person and neither is she. We both want to quit our job so it would be unfair that only one of us did. We agree on that. The solution is that we will make sure that we both quit at the same time soon enough. FIRE FTW.
Ha ha ha.
Sorry, I'm not a SAHM, but I know a few. Good luck finding time to study physics. If it's anything like maternity leave or weekends or week-long vacations with my kids, it's cleaning, cooking, dishes, wiping butts, piles of laundry, grocery shopping, oil changes, waiting for the plumber, paying the bills, volunteering at the school, brushing teeth, clipping toenails, helping with math and reading, coloring, playing mousetrap, cleaning up pee all over the bathroom, and lying in bed with a toddler at night, almost asleep, thinking "just go the fuck to sleep already".
-
I'm kind of amazed at the number of people who think its OK for a man who gets his fiance/wife pregnant to demand that she immediately go back to work after having the baby and shirk his responsibility to provide for his family. I made sure my wife knew when she had our child that if she wanted to stay home, she could(and that going back to work was also totally OK).
Full disclosure: I've been married almost 20 years. My kids are 10 and 3 (originally didn't want kids, got talked into it).
I never wanted to stay at home. That was never the plan.
However, we are a team. It's OUR job to provide for our family. OUR job.
I worked and provided for the family while he was in graduate school. For the last 14 years, we've both worked.
If he got injured tomorrow and could never work again, would I divorce him? Because he cannot provide? Um, no. We'd have to make some life adjustments. But we are married. We do that together.
And when it came down to it, I cut my hours for a couple of periods of time when I had the kids. We could afford it. We made that decision together. If my husband came home today and told me he was stressed out and wanted to cut his work hours in half, we'd discuss it. (As it is, he has so much work he's having to work overtime. We discuss that too.)
-
One more vote for a trip to a professional counselor. I think you need somebody that can make her see how what she's doing is unfair... or help you see how you're being unfair given that we are only hearing one side of the story.
Oh, and I've got a question for all y'all smart folks out there. Between my sister-in-law and her wife, which one should I tell to stand up and be the breadwinner, and which one should I tell to stay home to clean the house and raise the kid?
And the guys up the street from me, what about them?? They both work and have a nanny for the kids.
-
Your post demonstrates a lot of contempt for your wife.
+1
Every time I read a post like this, I try to imagine the other person writing their version. Normally it doesn't take much imagination to write an equally "wow this person looks horrible" post.
-
Is the "you shouldn't be a SAHM" a younger generation thing? I'm not that old, am I?
I mean, legitimately like half the posters in this thread believe a man should be able to look at his wife and tell her she *has* to get a job after the baby is born? All other issues aside, and there are plenty, this just feels very wrong to me. No one is backing me up on this?
I think most people feel like the OP and his wife should communicate and neither should have the right to unilaterally make a decision that effects both of them tremendously. I went back to work after my oldest was born and hated ever minute of it so I quit and was a SAHM for several years. It was a decision I discussed with my husband and we were on the same page. We had also worked hard to get out of debt before having children so we had options. Our decisions were mutual and focused which is not happening in the OP's situation. We don't know the wife's side, but he is obviously seething with resentment which indicates that this is a symptom of some bigger issues.
I have a couple of friends who continue to be SAHMs even though their husband's feel overwhelmed and have asked them to go back to work. I think that is putting an unfair burden on one spouse and just builds resentment. Both of these women have older children so there is no particular reason they can't work, they just don't want to.
All that to say, he and his wife need to get on the same page and marriage counseling would probably help tremendously.
-
I agree that once kids go to school there is no reason for the wife not to work if her spouse wants her too. I could see where that situation would build a ton of resentment too. As with most things in life communication is key.
-
The variety of responses here is fascinating.
We only have one side of the story but it seems she is financially immature, maybe professionally too. And she wants the lifestyle her family had, not realizing what it takes to create that. It's fairly common.
There still seems to be a lot of "his and hers" about money from your perspective and "ours" from hers. Logically, if you want to be a stay at home parent and don't have some independent wealth stashed away, you need to move to a "ours" place about money. Sitting down, looking at all of the facts, making joint decisions. It's not about whether one thinks a mother should have the right.
For your his and hers perspective (money and past decisions), she must have a separate income. From her perspective, it seems to be shared. But then she must share in the responsibility, not just the opportunity to spend.
-
Your post demonstrates a lot of contempt for your wife.
+1
Every time I read a post like this, I try to imagine the other person writing their version. Normally it doesn't take much imagination to write an equally "wow this person looks horrible" post.
Ooh, challenge accepted.
Please help!!! My husband has always been so supportive of me, when I took the job of my dreams, when we told my parents he was so supportive and excited for me! Then we got pregnant, our dreams were coming true!! I'd always dreamed of being a SAHM.
Unfortunately the start up I had been working super hard towards never got off the ground, and I was laid off after 2 months. My morning sickness/pregnancy has been so bad/tiring, I haven't been able to get a new job (I've tried, but its not easy to get a job with morning sickness and while visibly pregnant!)
It is okay, because now we are going to be parents, and I'll be a SAHM just like my mother was. I cant imagine putting my baby into the care of strangers. There is so much to do to prepare the house, and get ready to be a Mom.
I'm also trying to leverage the skills I have into a career that is flexible and could continue after baby is born (consultant), so I can try to contribute to our growing household.
Fiancée has been wonderful and has paid our mortgage for me until he moved in. He has done it gladly, without me asking for it. I'm so glad he was willing to step up and support his family. (Presumably he also paid for a (fancy?) wedding during this time, so 'our' family could be complete?).
I can't wait for my parents and family to meet our new bundle of joy - family is so important. We will take the baby to see them, and celebrate later this year.
Up until this point, husband had been so supportive and encouraging of our future together. We were on track together, and now, suddenly, it's like he's flipped a switch.
He is being so unkind to me, making snarky comments, insinuating I'm lazy and acting like I'm taking advantage of him, telling me that, if it wasn't for him, I'd be homeless, that I should somehow be working full-time to support him with a baby on the way?
He has been trying to tell me I cant go and see my family on a holiday this year, that my work experience is useless, and suddenly my career plans aren't good enough?
It's like everything was wonderful, when suddenly, my husband completely changed and it's making me stressed and miserable!
My body is changing, I feel so tired, fat, and unsexy. I cry all the time. He's not supportive and caring like he used to be. I can tell he resents me, and I worry, maybe he resents the baby too? And I'm pregnant and have no money and have no idea what to do?! Please help!
Edited to add: I have no strong opinions about the situation one way or the other (other than, obviously, counselling for you both), am just accepting the challenge to post from the perspective of OP's partner. I don't know OP, could be totally off base.
-
Op I just want to commend you for reaching out to gain perspective on this situation. You have a lot going on, new marriage and new baby, those two things together break some people. I honestly want to applaud you for dealing with your struggles the best you can. Just breathe and take the necessary steps to get your family back on track. #prayers
-
Definitely agree with all the marriage counseling votes, I have seen it work wonders.
Also another poster beat me to it but from a very practical standpoint what job would she be likely to get? In today's market, if you don't have a friend's home-based daycare to rely on, then daycare could run you a pretty penny. If she were to take a job only making 20K-35K then being a SAHM may be the better financial decision to make here. There's a lot of different studies/calculations out there on the "worth"/ equivalent salary of a SAHM. It would depend on where you live (H/LCOL), but I've seen one study (can't seem to find the link atm) that put a national average SAHM salary at about ~30K (daycare/cleaning/other savings 'synergies').
-
I've worked very part time the last 20 years so our now young adult kids had a parent at home at all times and a parent at school functions etc. This was a well thought out joint effort. I didn't decide. WE decided. It's sounds like you have been supportive in everything SHE wants. She needs to do the same for you. Two vacations etc is great if it puts no extra stress on you. However that doesn't sound like the case. Gee our first traveling far vacation with me primarily as SAHM was when our kids were 5 and 8. Why? Because we had to make financial sacrifices to have a SAH parent. It's a privilege and a partnership. I took my job making our $ behave very seriously. Me working 10 hours compared to my spouse 4 plus times that also meant I did most of the stuff around the house. After all I had the time. The least I could do was let him relax a bit. After all he enabled me to work only 10 hours a week and enjoy my kids and home life stress free. I kept my 10 hours a week to keep my hand in my chosen profession by choice. Your lady is not a princess and it is not your job to make everything fall into place. Marriage is a joint venture.
-
Is the "you shouldn't be a SAHM" a younger generation thing? I'm not that old, am I?
I mean, legitimately like half the posters in this thread believe a man should be able to look at his wife and tell her she *has* to get a job after the baby is born? All other issues aside, and there are plenty, this just feels very wrong to me. No one is backing me up on this?
I think most people feel like the OP and his wife should communicate and neither should have the right to unilaterally make a decision that effects both of them tremendously. I went back to work after my oldest was born and hated ever minute of it so I quit and was a SAHM for several years. It was a decision I discussed with my husband and we were on the same page. We had also worked hard to get out of debt before having children so we had options. Our decisions were mutual and focused which is not happening in the OP's situation. We don't know the wife's side, but he is obviously seething with resentment which indicates that this is a symptom of some bigger issues.
I have a couple of friends who continue to be SAHMs even though their husband's feel overwhelmed and have asked them to go back to work. I think that is putting an unfair burden on one spouse and just builds resentment. Both of these women have older children so there is no particular reason they can't work, they just don't want to.
All that to say, he and his wife need to get on the same page and marriage counseling would probably help tremendously.
I know people that refuse also even though they are sinking financially or stressing their spouse to the hilt. I have asked my spouse more than I can count if I should go back to work fulltime. Heck our babies are in college! It's always a no answer. I think this would be a far different answer if I hadn't made if my job to make our money behave and take my job as household CEO seriously. I'm all for SAHM but it has to be a joint decision, give and take on both sides and always have a plan to get back to earning income. Breadwinner get sickl, dissabled, laid off etc.
-
To the OP: You mention "love" (with quotation marks) for a job. But do you love each other? Do you love her, and does she love you? What do you do to keep loving each other?
Someone else wrote this:
However, we are a team. It's OUR job to provide for our family. OUR job.
You have a kid together. You owe it to the kid to try to keep falling deeper in love, and to provide a loving upbringing for the kid and its future potential siblings. This includes communicating with each other about values, goals and methods to reach these goals.
-
Also, OP, as a point of compromise on the whole "vacation to visit family after the baby is born" thing, how about this: invite family for a visit. Hire a maid service to clean the whole house right before the visit. Yes, that costs money, but it costs less than travel does. Do not invite family to visit and then expect a new mom who's only gotten 4 hours of sleep a night to clean the whole house for the visit.
-
Your post demonstrates a lot of contempt for your wife.
+1
Every time I read a post like this, I try to imagine the other person writing their version. Normally it doesn't take much imagination to write an equally "wow this person looks horrible" post.
Ooh, challenge accepted.
Please help!!! My husband has always been so supportive of me, when I took the job of my dreams, when we told my parents he was so supportive and excited for me! Then we got pregnant, our dreams were coming true!! I'd always dreamed of being a SAHM.
Unfortunately the start up I had been working super hard towards never got off the ground, and I was laid off after 2 months. My morning sickness/pregnancy has been so bad/tiring, I haven't been able to get a new job (I've tried, but its not easy to get a job with morning sickness and while visibly pregnant!)
It is okay, because now we are going to be parents, and I'll be a SAHM just like my mother was. I cant imagine putting my baby into the care of strangers. There is so much to do to prepare the house, and get ready to be a Mom.
I'm also trying to leverage the skills I have into a career that is flexible and could continue after baby is born (consultant), so I can try to contribute to our growing household.
Fiancée has been wonderful and has paid our mortgage for me until he moved in. He has done it gladly, without me asking for it. I'm so glad he was willing to step up and support his family. (Presumably he also paid for a (fancy?) wedding during this time, so 'our' family could be complete?).
I can't wait for my parents and family to meet our new bundle of joy - family is so important. We will take the baby to see them, and celebrate later this year.
Up until this point, husband had been so supportive and encouraging of our future together. We were on track together, and now, suddenly, it's like he's flipped a switch.
He is being so unkind to me, making snarky comments, insinuating I'm lazy and acting like I'm taking advantage of him, telling me that, if it wasn't for him, I'd be homeless, that I should somehow be working full-time to support him with a baby on the way?
He has been trying to tell me I cant go and see my family on a holiday this year, that my work experience is useless, and suddenly my career plans aren't good enough?
It's like everything was wonderful, when suddenly, my husband completely changed and it's making me stressed and miserable!
My body is changing, I feel so tired, fat, and unsexy. I cry all the time. He's not supportive and caring like he used to be. I can tell he resents me, and I worry, maybe he resents the baby too? And I'm pregnant and have no money and have no idea what to do?! Please help!
Exactly.
-
Also, OP, as a point of compromise on the whole "vacation to visit family after the baby is born" thing, how about this: invite family for a visit. Hire a maid service to clean the whole house right before the visit. Yes, that costs money, but it costs less than travel does. Do not invite family to visit and then expect a new mom who's only gotten 4 hours of sleep a night to clean the whole house for the visit.
I would agree with this if the vacations are so the family can meet the new baby I would say it is fair to see if they are willing to come visit instead. The costs would be lower and there would be less stress on both the mother and baby.
-
Hi again all - I read all the responses and I should clarify some things:
I only wanted her to consider going back to her previous job. She was not getting paid for 11 whole months before giving birth. When we got engaged, we were living in separate cities. We had a plan to live in the same city in the near future. When she told me she did not get paid, I immediately petitioned my workplace to allow me to work from one of their offices near her. The net effect of this is that while I can be here for the next 2-3 years, eventually this move will affect my career and to get senior level/management I will need to be at an HQ.
She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).
I moved my career temporarily for her - I am not a bad guy. Its just frustrating that so quickly this went from "we will both make good incomes" to "I am stuck with a mortgage I had no say in." Her lifestyle is not excessive. She is not a bad person and is a good wife and mother - she is just so overly optimistic. She is the type that if someone says "I promise you $1 a day for the next year," she books it as "I have $365 this year." I am more of "I will believe it when I see it" type. The startup job was not hard work like one person replied - they effectively folded 2 months after she started. The amount of work she did for them was very little as her experience basically was "Ok, we are setting up your position, please await for resources and the go ahead to hire people under you" to "Ok we have no resources, cya."
Since writing this, I told her I did not want to take two vacations this year. See, I have student loan debt. It stresses me out because my plan was to pay it off pretty quickly once out of school and this marriage has delayed that significantly. I am not regretting it - I love my wife and daughter - but geez don't I have a little right to be like, "this sucks a little?"
And also, finally, this is the icing on the cake. Her parents were both lawyers. Her mom was a volunteer/pro bono type. She got sent to expensive private schools. She has an adoptive brother. Guess what? Her parents are living above their means in retirement. Her adoptive brother got arrested for sex crimes and has had several stints in rehab for heroin (he is 29). They have spent lots of their savings on him ($50,000 in the past year alone to get the sex crime reduced to a probation). They also have a mortgage in retirement. She casually mentioned that its possible in ten years we will have to take care of them like her aunt did with her grandparents.
So yes, I believe I can be a little angry.
-
I also want to add this:
Part of what I keep bringing up to her (we do have good communication) is that she could try to get a job in another industry and probably make 70k+. I won't say what her passion is, but to her, she simply *has* to work in that field. I fell for her because I like smart girls with passion, but in all honesty that field she is passionate about is dead at the moment.
-
geez don't I have a little right to be like, "this sucks a little?"
So yes, I believe I can be a little angry.
Are you looking for a chorus of "yeah your wife is horrible!" and validation of your feelings or what are you seeking from this thread?
-
Based on what you've written, you and your wife are not only not on the same page... you're not even reading the same book. Or possibly in the same book store.
Seriously, if you love her and want to save your marriage, get into counseling ASAP. Otherwise your resentment will turn into anger and contempt (it's already happening) and will poison the relationship.
-
She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).
Wait, you want her to feel regret about making a decision in her life that currently affects you that she made before she even knew you? This is just so bizarre. I really don't understand your perspective.
There are plenty of things that my husband has to deal with about me that "he had no say in." That's just marriage. It's how you deal with it that determines the happiness and possibly the longevity of your partnership. But to be this bitter about a decision that was made before she even knew you, especially one as benign as buying a house?? I truly don't get it.
You come across as very bitter towards your wife and not wholly "in" this relationship. This especially comes across in your frustrations with her family. You don't see them as your family. After ten years of marriage, I honestly think of my husband's parents as my responsibility. They're my family too. I love them. Maybe that will come with time for you, but I think it's an important part of becoming fully "in."
-
She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).
Since it's a 15, not 30, year mortgage, your payments are having a much higher principal:interest ratio than on a 30, so that's something. You're getting equity in the house. You'll have to move in a couple years? Fine. In the meanwhile, the house is gaining in equity beyond whatever down payment she saved up and invested in it to start with. When you move in a few years, sell this house and use THAT for the down payment on the new one. You are not missing out on the opportunity to make a down payment on a house in a better location later.
-
Sell the house and move.
-
She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).
The house wasn't a mistake if she bought it before you 2 entered a relationship. She had no idea what her life would end up like.
And also, finally, this is the icing on the cake. Her parents were both lawyers. Her mom was a volunteer/pro bono type. She got sent to expensive private schools. She has an adoptive brother. Guess what? Her parents are living above their means in retirement. Her adoptive brother got arrested for sex crimes and has had several stints in rehab for heroin (he is 29). They have spent lots of their savings on him ($50,000 in the past year alone to get the sex crime reduced to a probation). They also have a mortgage in retirement. She casually mentioned that its possible in ten years we will have to take care of them like her aunt did with her grandparents.
Did you know about all the family problems before/while dating and before the pregnancy? A person's family is something to review as part of the dating process. A drug abuser can destroy families and marriages emotionally and financially so I avoid dating people with these type of family problems depending on how involved everyone is. If she wants to help her parents then you'll need to communicate that in order for that to be possible she will need to go back to work so that you and her do not become a burden on your own children.
And be careful and don't get her pregnant again until you can work through all this so you don't end up with 2 child support payments.
-
I will say I'm an extremely selfish person, so that is probably a reason I haven't gotten married yet. I'm also probably the worst person to go to for relationship advice, but I will say this from a woman's perspective and you can take what you will out of it.
You were forced to pay for a house you didn't want. She did not communicate with you to begin with, I feel she is extremely selfish in her own right, or maybe just naive. Did you guys talk about goals before getting married? Did she ever mention wanting to be a housewife?
Since you are making the payments, it's your call. You can say that you can't afford it and move. If she refuses, tell her she can get her own job and make payments on the house. If you are bringing home the money, then I believe you have every right to place her on a budget and set expectation on what each of your responsibilities are. It is okay to stay at home if it's agreed that it makes sense, and if each person understands their role.
I have joke with my SO that I want to be stay at home many times. The guilt of it would cause so much restrictions on my freedom that I don't think I could bare it. If she doesn't feel that guilt, maybe you should make those restrictions a little more blunt (giving her a budget and set list of what she will need to do if you are providing income). I come from a spoiled background myself, so I understand the desire to be taken care of. It's fear that keeps me independent, and I think that's something she might not have, so show it to her.
Again, I am extremely young and naive myself. I don't have any children and am not married but in a rather long relationship, so take this all with a grain of salt. I know it's far more complex than I could imagine.
-
It sounds like your plan is to move in 2-3 years to get back to your HQ and climb the ladder; pay off the student loans; and make plans for a stable, early retirement. Her plan is to pursue her passion; help others; and be an amazing wife and mother. These two plans don't sound mutually exclusive*. You just need to sit down and mesh them together, which, from the outside, seems really easy.
Dump the house (rent or sell), rent a smaller place in her town or move to yours, create a budget that lets you dump the loans and for her to stay at home. Anything above and beyond she brings in is just icing on the cake. The forum will be great place to get advice on how to structure your life to make this happen.
What will keep everything from coming together is resentment or a lack of cohesive vision for your future. You and your wife are more than a team. You are a family. It's like a team and friendship to the nth degree because you are working for the betterment of each member and the whole for now and into the future after you are long dead through the raising of your children. What happened last year is nothing when you compare it to the lifetime of plans and decisions you have to make.
*if you have bumped into my posts or journal before, you will know that this is exactly the plan my husband and I have. I do passion projects, stay at home, volunteer, and watch the finances while my husband works and we stash for the future. I love it and he has never expressed any resentment. If he did, we'd have to change the plans, but it can work.
-
I am not regretting it - I love my wife and daughter - but geez don't I have a little right to be like, "this sucks a little?"
So, things didn't go exactly the way you had hoped, and maybe it does suck a little. Acknowledge that -and move on! Dwelling on is not doing anybody any good! And if she just recently had a baby, give her time to adjust. She may very well want to start working again once she has recovered from the pregnancy, birth, and sleep deprivation. I agree with some of the others that your negativity and resentment is poisoning your relationship together. Giver her some time, then make plans for the future TOGETHER.
-
I only wanted her to consider going back to her previous job. . . eventually this move will affect my career and to get senior level/management I will need to be at an HQ.
. . .I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. . .I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).
I moved my career temporarily for her - I am not a bad guy. . .
I have student loan debt. It stresses me out because my plan was to pay it off pretty quickly once out of school and this marriage has delayed that significantly.
The problem with communication is most people think they are good at it. Even if you actually are, it is still difficult to navigate.
It sounds to me like you feel like you are sacrificing for your wife and don't feel respected for it, or possibly like she even "gets" it. Hence wanting her to admit that your analysis of the situation is right.
Try talking to her about that. Also, as much as you can, orient your conversations and your thoughts to see the two of you as a team.
Try a conversation that goes something like:
"Hey, honey. I know your dream is (xyz). I love (insert attributes) about you that drive you to that. I also really want us to be financially stable. How can we work together to make both of those things happen? Right now it's hard for me to feel like I have your support in our finances and I'm guessing it's hard for you to feel like I support you in (career/staying at home), too. How can we get on the same page and support each other better?"
Listen to your wife's thoughts and truly consider them. Yes, the situation may be difficult for you, but it's assuredly difficult for her, too, and it doesn't help either of you to focus on your own hardship. Give your wife the benefit of the doubt that she isn't trying to be against you and does want what's best for you. Orient the conversation back to the two of you being a team; don't fall into the trap of seeing it as you against her.
I also support the idea that counseling would be good, or even an informal time of the two of you talking together to another couple you respect. It can help to have outside input for both of your perspectives and everybody (even the best communicators) can use tips on how to support one another better.
-
Having a baby is not a f.t. job but it is if she does everything else too.
Oh honey, having a baby is ABSOLUTELY a full-time job, at least until the child gets older.
Source: have a 10-week old infant - my life is a constant cycle of nursing, napping & diaper changing.
-
Having a baby is not a f.t. job but it is if she does everything else too.
Oh honey, having a baby is ABSOLUTELY a full-time job, at least until the child gets older.
Source: have a 10-week old infant - my life is a constant cycle of nursing, napping & diaper changing.
Quoted for truth...
-
This sounds too much like the 1950s. Women are just as responsible as men are for providing for their family financially. Unfortunately, a huge block in this is that there is a serious gender gap between men and women for pay. Just because a couple has a child doesn't mean that the man is solely responsible for the financial livelihood of his family. They are both adults and equally responsible.
Yes to all of this. I'm assuming that OP didn't coerce, badger or otherwise pressure his wife into getting pregnant or carrying to term. If any of the preceding are true, all bets are off. But I'm going to choose to imagine OP as a reasonable person and figure that his wife had an equal or greater say in the choice to have this child. It's not okay for her to make a unilateral decision that OP needs to provide all or nearly all of their income.
Should OP support her through at least six weeks of maternity leave and more if necessary? Yep. Should OP be supportive if she's actively looking for a job? Yep. Is OP obligated to financially support her indefinitely because he knocked her up? Big Ol' Nope
Moving past the antiquated gender role debate, I think it would be helpful to know more about OP's job, finances and feelings. I understand that he's upset about having to deal with the consequences of his wife's choices. That's all perfectly reasonable, but is he financially able to manage the situation? It sounds like they're in debt and that his wife's refusal to make any significant financial contribution is potentially creating an emergency (debt, kid and spendy lifestyle on one income).
The lesson here is that it's important to both know and accept your partner's finances and financial habits before marrying. My husband and I have been married for nearly six years and continue to maintain separate accounts. I still wouldn't have married him if I couldn't trust him to manage money. Considering a worst case scenario is often helpful at highlighting weaknesses. Worst case scenario, if you become severely disabled you are at the complete mercy of your spouse. Choose wisely.
-
I'm somewhat confused by some of these details.
You moved locations to be with her . . . but she does not live near family anyway because you have to travel a long distance to see them? Now she is not working, and the location is neither ideal for your job nor close to family? The mortgage payments are too high and you don't seem particularly to like this house?
It seems like you need to sit down together and plan out a roadmap for at least the next 3-5 years. If she wants to take care of children and do part time consulting, then why not just go ahead and get on the same page about moving to a new city as needed for your career? If she has objection to that, then based upon the information I have this will be a bumpy road for a long time. But maybe she will be fine with it and agree that you just need to sell the current house now to get ready for an impending move?
If she really, really likes the house, but has no income and it is not in a good location for your job, then I'm sorry but she needs to consider the needs of the family over her own attachment to this inanimate object. Bear in mind that moving with a small child in tow is stressful, but the child doesn't care one way or the other where you live at this point, so any resistance to moving from her is purely selfishly motivated (and I don't even know if she will resist . . .)
Also, you are under no obligation whatsoever to ever give a dime to her parents and/or brother. I would express my extreme discomfort with any ideas she expresses along those lines every single time she mentions it.
-
Also, you are under no obligation whatsoever to ever give a dime to her parents and/or brother. I would express my extreme discomfort with any ideas she expresses along those lines every single time she mentions it.
Legally, that depends what state you and they live in (http://elder-law.lawyers.com/elder-care/you-may-have-to-pay-for-your-parents-care.html).
-
^Ouch wow thank you for that. I had no idea about these laws, and most of us with financially irresponsible parents probably need to find out more. If his spouse is not working (no income), could a nursing home come after his income some day?
-
Wow - some old school conservative views here, I don't necessarily agree that male = provider and female can choose whether to work or not. I'm more liberal and believe it should be a joint decision based on aptitudes for earning and caring, and availability of childcare.
So I'm seeing you feel you wanted to make a joint decision, but your wife has decided she isn't working - I can easily see why that has frustrated you. I'm also seeing you are very rational, structured, planning for every eventuality, with your wife occupying an opposite point of view. Counselling looks like it would help here - neither of you are wrong, but you could each understand the other more, and negotiate some compromises. Then you can make plans for the future for your family, that you both buy into.
-
I'm somewhat confused by some of these details.
You moved locations to be with her . . . but she does not live near family anyway because you have to travel a long distance to see them? Now she is not working, and the location is neither ideal for your job nor close to family? The mortgage payments are too high and you don't seem particularly to like this house?
Me too. It's very unclear, other than moving to be near the job she no longer has and one (?) of you owning a house there, why you are in your current location? Can you sell the house and move to the location that is better for your job?
I'm going to assume that the baby is young at this point. And you seem to be worried about your long term job prospects because of your location? And feeling trapped there because of the house? And perhaps your frustration is resulting in your reporting here to be negative (are you frantic, anxious, frustrated)?
First, I would also strongly recommend marriage counseling. You guys haven't been married very long and it's hard enough to get on the same page with another person...adding baby makes that tons more difficult.
Second, although I do agree with the commenters expressing concern about your tone, I sympathize with your frustration. I was the principle wage earner in my marriage for years. When we had no kids, DH refused to work most jobs because they were "beneath him." He is just as optimistic as you describe your wife. It sometimes makes me nuts. We were married a long time before we had kids because of this. He finally decided he really wanted kids and wanted to be a SAHD. I was making enough to afford that. We talked a lot and agreed. Seven months into the pregnancy, he abruptly changed his mind unilaterally. I ended up juggling 85% of the baby care, household stuff and earning most of our income. It was tough. But...we decided to stay together and try to work out mutually acceptable circumstances. We had to move locations to someplace I dislike. DH now is working for very little pay at a job he was previously sure was "beneath him". I have a part time job, the children and all the house, including most of the remodeling. I live someplace I loathe. I am definitely frustrated.
That said, sniping comments to your spouse aren't going to help. If you want to keep your family together, you need to start with where you are now. How you got here is a collection of sunk costs. You and your wife need to put together a plan that is agreeable to both and practical enough to actually have a chance of working (I add that because my spouse can be wildly impractical in terms of optimism and dreaming). Common goals will help. Anything in the past is counterproductive in terms of rectifying your current situation.
-
Let the past go and make a plan for the future.
First - there's no point in her getting a job while you have a baby if you need to move to another city for your job within a couple of years. What's your plan with that? She's going to work for a year and then you're going to ask her to quit and make her start over the job hunt elsewhere? Let her work as a "consultant" and SAHM until you move back to where you need to be. Let her know that you're cool with her being a SAHM for a couple of years, but it needs to be temporary. Don't have any more babies.
Second - Sell your house. Who cares about it? It's temporary and you hate it. Tell your wife that you'd feel more comfortable if you guys had a cheaper place while she's staying home and not working. Can you move back to your original location sooner rather than later?
I'm with you - it sounds like you got trapped. It sounds frustrating. But you were an active participant in getting trapped. You didn't delay marriage and baby while your wife sorted out her career goals. You didn't tell her to put her unaffordable house on the market when she lost her roommate, instead you just paid the mortgage and then moved into it. She may have decided to buy the house - but you decided to keep it.
You act like life is something that just happened to you. But actually, you're a victim of yourself. You've repeatedly Knight-in-Shining-Armored this woman. You didn't want to ruin her excitement on her big day, so you supported her in a life-altering decision you didn't like. You swooped in to pay her mortgage. You put your career on hold to move to her location. You're prancing around on your white horse and blaming your princess for the manure.
-
Another option might be depending on how the housing and rental markets are in your area it might be worth renting out the house while renting a smaller place/apartment closer to work if the housing market is currently down and that is what is holding your wife back from selling it. That way you get the shorter commute and hopefully the rental cost will at least offset the cost of mortgage or possible even cover some of the cost of renting a place closer.
This depends heavily on the housing and rental market in your area and would need a decent bit of investigating first.
-
I didn't read most of the comments but read the original post. I have this to say:
It sounds like you both need a little education in making sound life and financial decisions. This happened with my ex and I, where I enforced sound financial decisions (savings, cutting spending, etc), but I also was in the process of figuring out what the hell I was gonna do career-wise. My wife supported my floundering for a few years, but eventually got fed up. I finally settled on a career that I both like and makes good money, so financially things started to align.
There is no "normal" as you originally proposed, but what I've learned is that a) focus on cleaning YOUR side of the street, not hers. In other words, don't blame her for you being a victim. You don't need to be a victim of anyone else but yourself. And b) RESEARCH EVERYTHING. Don't ever just go into anything important (marriage, car, car loan, mortgage, new city, house, etc) without doing a ton of research and asking at least 2 other people what they think. Ultimately go with your gut, and if you don't have a clear direction that you FEEL, don't do it.
As someone said, what's done is done. Focus on figuring out what needs to be done right now. Meditate and figure out what the overall goal is, then see what the next indicated action towards that goal is. It will present itself if you remain calm and with good intentions.
Good luck.
-
I took a job I tolerate because it pays. She won't even consider taking a job she "tolerates."
Ok, quit. Tell her you want to pursue your dreams too and the house is her responsibility. But then, you presumably took this job that you "tolerate" before you met her so is that your mistake that you were expecting her to fix when you got married?
As so many others have said you need to learn to communicate. It doesn't sound as if there was any discussion about children, financials or life goals before the wedding and those things need to be addressed as soon as possible. You assumed she would do what you told her (Not take the job, keep working) and she assumed you would happily support her. It didn't work out that way and now you can either figure out a new plan or become resentful and bitter.
-
You act like life is something that just happened to you. But actually, you're a victim of yourself. You've repeatedly Knight-in-Shining-Armored this woman. You didn't want to ruin her excitement on her big day, so you supported her in a life-altering decision you didn't like. You swooped in to pay her mortgage. You put your career on hold to move to her location. You're prancing around on your white horse and blaming your princess for the manure.
This is brilliant - especially the last line!
I do not think it has been mentioned yet - while lots of these issues started before baby, if you still have a child under 1 this is not necessarily the time to expect your wife to be at her most rational. Learn to communicate better over the next few months, then make some hard decisions together once baby is a little bit older. Few of us are at our best with a new baby in the house (yourself included.) Hang in there, I am sure you guys will sort this out.
-
"Oh honey, having a baby is ABSOLUTELY a full-time job, at least until the child gets older.
Source: have a 10-week old infant - my life is a constant cycle of nursing, napping & diaper changing."
I had 3 kids within 7 years and also did all the housework, errands, etc because my husband was working. He did the outside work and took care of the cars. So I know from personal experience. I did not say it was super easy but very doable.
-
She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).
Since it's a 15, not 30, year mortgage, your payments are having a much higher principal:interest ratio than on a 30, so that's something. You're getting equity in the house. You'll have to move in a couple years? Fine. In the meanwhile, the house is gaining in equity beyond whatever down payment she saved up and invested in it to start with. When you move in a few years, sell this house and use THAT for the down payment on the new one. You are not missing out on the opportunity to make a down payment on a house in a better location later.
She did not make a down payment. She got a $0 down loan.
-
You act like life is something that just happened to you. But actually, you're a victim of yourself. You've repeatedly Knight-in-Shining-Armored this woman. You didn't want to ruin her excitement on her big day, so you supported her in a life-altering decision you didn't like. You swooped in to pay her mortgage. You put your career on hold to move to her location. You're prancing around on your white horse and blaming your princess for the manure.
This is brilliant - especially the last line!
I do not think it has been mentioned yet - while lots of these issues started before baby, if you still have a child under 1 this is not necessarily the time to expect your wife to be at her most rational. Learn to communicate better over the next few months, then make some hard decisions together once baby is a little bit older. Few of us are at our best with a new baby in the house (yourself included.) Hang in there, I am sure you guys will sort this out.
Thanks - I will (hopefully) let this thread die down. Very few answered the original question - is this normal? A few did. A lot of people didn't like my tone and while I get that, I feel better after I vent as opposed to bottling it up. The counseling suggestions/concerns about divorce were so off base - I went here precisely because the issue is "settled" with her. We've spoken about it. Both of us are also very Catholic and divorce is not (and never will) be a consideration. Its a rhetorical question - but aren't we allowed to complain? I mean, people go to bars all the time and vent and no one thinks that makes you a bad person. I'd just prefer to do it without the alcohol tab.
We were friends for about 8 years before we got married. She is someone that causes other people to go "oh gosh, she's so naïve!" So it makes me want to protect/save her. She's very smart and optimistic and the optimistic part can come back to bite her a lot. I am the pessimist/realist and we balance each other out. She once invited a random stranger to help her move in - the guy ended up being a really bad guy but somehow nothing bad happened to her.
This is a rhetorical question - but aren't we allowed to complain? I am a loving husband and have taken time off of work to watch our baby alone so she can do things she wants to do. Can't I at least go - some things about this suck! When I got this job I thought "I'd be retiring in my 50s." Now... ?
Anyways as a parting summary this is what I've done financially since posting this:
- Told her we cannot go on two vacations this year. We will go on one and I also convinced her to take a train instead of flying (I hate flying - I've done it so much and dread it every time).
- Decided to refinance my student loans at a much lower variable interest rate. I will put about 1,000 a month into a bond fund and if the student loan variable rate gets above the rate of return on the bond I will shift to paying off the loan (and in 2-3 years could have enough in the bond fund to pay the loan payments with the bond coupon). This gives us additional liquidity - as the sole earner I worry greatly about losing my job and would prefer to have 2-3 years after tax salary than paying off student loan debt. I could pay off the loan in 3 years without major hardship but if I can borrow at 3% to get 5% returns - why not?
- Requested to relocate my office closer to home so I can bike to work. I have an old car and if I can put off getting a newer one another 5 years that would save a lot.
-
Of course you can complain-no big deal. However, I do think you both need counseling in order to sort things out before they fester. Most people who get divorced never thought they would or they stay together and are miserable. If things aren't worked out eventually neither of you will care enough to try. Counseling is a good thing not a bad thing.
-
I hate it when people ask for advice on a public forum and complain "nobody answered the original question."
Everybody here is trying to help you. You ask "is this normal?"
What kind of question is that? Normal means different things to different people. In my personal opinion being religious in 2016 is batshit insane - but its a free country so whatever.
If you want a free pass to complain that's usually what people have friends for or go to therapy sessions for. I would highly suggest either option for you if you don't want to have your life blasted on a public personal finance forum.
-
Honestly, I think the kinds of problems you're describing are really normal, though also very undesirable. I get that these are hard conversations to have, but it's really important to talk about your life goals (individually and as a couple), ideally before you do anything un-take-backable like have kids. If you guys have different expectations about how you're going to share responsibility for your financial life as a family, that's a big deal and you need to talk about it.
You're in a difficult position because probably your relationship with your wife has been based around NOT having these kinds of difficult conversations, and if you want to start now with some Real Talk your wife may well feel like you're changing the rules. That's why couples' therapy might be a good option - structure and a neutral third party could really help out here!
-
My husband and I have a very similar arrangement to what you and your wife have on paper...he works for the money at a job he enjoys enough while I stay home with the kids, dream up grand plans, do some random projects in social services, and do the radical homemaking I enjoy while we squirrel away money to get out of the race by our early 40s. We will probably have issues getting rid of our house in a few years and will be frustrated that we are saddled with the expense. Young children have made our lives nuts for a couple years, but having a family is awesome. We came to this arrangement through careful consideration and because my DH likes to take care of me and wanted to have support while he climbed through the ranks.
So, in response to your question, if you are comparing your situation to what I experience you shouldn't be upset. In fact, it sounds almost perfect!
But, your question is flawed. Your being upset or not upset should have nothing to do with whether or not your life is normal. Nothing about my house is normal. Nothing about this forum is normal. That's why it's so awesome. If you look around and think, "wow, this is perfectly normal!" You are doing something wrong. That's when you should be upset. :-)
-
I know you're trying to let this thread die, but I have some additional thoughts to share.
You're asking whether you should be upset. The reality is you already are. And yes, I believe that's okay.
You're asking whether what you've experienced is normal. I assume, based on the fact that you're asking, that it's not normal for you and your wife. (Alternatively, are things so new that you really don't have an established "normal" yet?)
Some questions to ponder:
- What is/are the real source(s) of your displeasure? The fact that you "had to" move? The 0% down payment? The less-than-smart job decision and subsequent job loss? The need to adjust your vision of the future because of all of this? The fact that you feel most/all of this was outside of your control? All of the above combined? Something else entirely?
- To what extent do you feel like this all boils down to a lack of communication or lack of approaching things as true partners? If this is true to a great extent, then I believe the suggestions for counseling are valid. Do you?
-
So to answer your question....no that shit's not normal, at least in my experience, sounds like you should get some counseling. Happy?
-
Its all moot now - I talked to my wife and I am trying to get a new and better job. I am interviewing for one soon that would be a 80% raise. One thing that really got to me with the move is putting my career on hold. I know I am top 10% in my career but on my team I have bottom 25% quality people getting 50% more pay than me. Being remote I don't have a negotiating leg to stand on.
All is well that ends well.
-
Its all moot now - I talked to my wife and I am trying to get a new and better job. I am interviewing for one soon that would be a 80% raise. One thing that really got to me with the move is putting my career on hold. I know I am top 10% in my career but on my team I have bottom 25% quality people getting 50% more pay than me. Being remote I don't have a negotiating leg to stand on.
All is well that ends well.
I am glad that you and your wife talked and that it seems to have worked out for you. Best of luck!!
-
Good luck!
-
Hope all goes well with u for the job hunt!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Is this normal...is the wrong question to ask.
What is wrong with this......leads to a more open ended exploration.
Karpman Drama Triangle , stop rescuing .
-
I'm kind of amazed at the number of people who think its OK for a man who gets his fiance/wife pregnant to demand that she immediately go back to work after having the baby and shirk his responsibility to provide for his family. I made sure my wife knew when she had our child that if she wanted to stay home, she could(and that going back to work was also totally OK).
I'm kind of amazed that in 2016 anyone thinks that women aren't equally responsible for the financial well being of their families because they happen to have ladybits.
I don't think anyone has an automatic right to be a SAHP. If a couple agrees on it, wants to do it, and can swing it financially, fine. That doesn't seem to be the case here.
OP, you seem to have a lot of issues in your marriage. You don't seem to be able to communicate at all with your spouse as well as differing goals. The two of you need to work on this together. You seem to have contempt for her, which seldom ends well. I think you could benefit from counseling.
I am a woman, and I would never support another able bodied person to be a SAHP, period. So, I can understand where you are coming from with that. My SIL is similar to your wife. She's capable of working, but wanted to find a well paying dream job as an artist that wouldn't require her to work very hard. She's not a good artist, and this fantasy job has never been dropped in her lap. She has one kid who is now in college and hasn't worked a day since she got pregnant. This would be a complete non-starter for me, and it has stressed my brother out a great deal.
You two need to find a mutually agreeable, realistic financial plan.
BTW, I tend to agree with you about consultants, yet I come across students in business schools who are allegedly being educated to become consultants upon graduation. Go figure.
-
This reminds me of a friend whose wife doesn't want to make love very often (3 or 4 times a year) and who isn't interested in changing. I feel for him. I also think you either have to accept that that is the way it's going to be and if you can't there's no point in sticking around. I know that's extremely harsh but is it worth being angry at each other for the rest of your life? And if you accept it, REALLY accept it. I have another friend who got married a 2nd time when he was 40. She was about 10 years younger and they both had good careers. He told me after his first wife he didn't want to be in a situation where he was the breadwinner. First thing that happened when she had her baby? "I'm going to take more than 3 months off." It's now been a couple of years and he has come to terms with it but he talks about "when she goes back to work." Your scenario is TERRIFYING to me. I dated my SO for 5 years before we lived together and we left no stone unturned. We still have issues (15 years now) but we're on the same page, and always have been, where our future plans are concerned. Not wanting kids takes a lot of stress off too.
Good luck!
-
OP, you have brought up separate issues and conflated them into one, clouding things a bit. Here is what I would say about the issues separately:
(1) While you were engaged, before you were married, she took a risk on what she considered her dream job. You thought it was a bad decision but said nothing. She stopped getting paid within 2 months. Afterwards you married her. This issue is closed and inadmissible. She may not have had the best judgment, but neither did you, and you don't get to say "told you so" unless you actually told her so.
(2) You two got pregnant and she wants to be a SAHM. This is one of those issues that you should have discussed before getting married. Did you discuss it and she changed her mind, or did she just not discuss it? Either way, this needs to be a joint decision -- she cannot dictate, you cannot dictate, you guys need to keep discussing it until you agree on a solution or there is a total impasse, and an impasse means the end of your marriage. For some reason people earlier in the thread have confused joint decision with the man dictating things.
(3) Should you take two vacations and see her family? Sounds like a budgeting decision. You have a household income and household expenses and must make joint decisions about them. She should not be able to dictate, neither should you. If the decision on expenses is tangled up with who brings home the bacon in your household, you're going to have a bad time. If you don't talk about joint decisions in a transparent and mutually open minded way, you're going to have a bad time. I think you'll get the hang of it.
-
I would have left her ages ago. Sorry she does seem rather delusional and lacking a base intelligence. But you are the meal ticket now. Be a man and dominate your house, your woman and lead your family.
That way no more fairyland journeys.
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk
-
How would she feel about you being the SAHP?
Just based on your posts in this thread this sounds far off from a "match made in heaven". Catholic or not you have to be compatible to be happy with them till death. While you were "friends for 8 years" I am not sure a friendship and marriage are quite the same.
I wish you luck in your marriage and finances, if it were me I would encourage her to find some sort of part time work from home so you are not footing the entire bill.
-
read this:
http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1461175241&sr=8-1&keywords=no+more+mr+nice+guy
-
Rhetorical question: is it OK to complain in a forum/ website built around the idea that people should get off their asses and stop being a complainy-pants?