Author Topic: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?  (Read 39900 times)

prognastat

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2016, 02:59:47 PM »
Fairly certain dougules was going for sarcasm. Showing that standards held decades ago do not really apply to relationships today.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2016, 03:03:46 PM »
So clearly there have been some mistakes made. Situation now: you have some responsibilities. A child, most importantly, and also the house. The conversation you and your wife need to have - without recriminations on how much she fucked up with her job situation - is:
1. What can you afford to do this year, given the job situation?
2. What can each of you do to communicate better about money?
3. What is the future financial plan?

Also - can you refinance to a 30 year? That might give you a little more breathing room.

justajane

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2016, 03:11:00 PM »
Your post demonstrates a lot of contempt for your wife. Since I don't know you or her, I can't know for certain if it is earned or not.

I would also recommend marriage counseling.

Noodle

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2016, 03:17:26 PM »
I can't tell what the OP wants. For his wife to go back to work full-time permanently? For his wife to go back to work until he can find a job that he likes better? For his wife to admit that she made bad choices about her house/finances/job so that he can be proven "right"?  What I can see is that there is apparently a young child in the picture (I think, this timeline of engaged/married/pregnant/unemployed is really hard to follow) and OP has not said one word about trying to figure out what is best for the baby and getting them both on the same page to accomplish that. All I hear about is what he wants, and what he says/thinks she wants. I think that is partially what some of the other posters are reacting to, although I don't necessarily agree that "shut up and pay the bills, manly person" is the correct response. I also don't hear the OP giving his wife any credit for the hard work she is doing as a SAHP. Since we know nothing about the income and expenses of this household, or the costs of said trips, two vacations a year (with one being to bring baby to visit family) may or may not be unreasonable.

What I can tell is that we have two people who think and communicate very differently, and seem to operate under different, unstated assumptions they are both attached to, who have somehow managed to become a merged legal entity and produce a child who will link them forever. So yes, instead of worrying about who is or was right and wrong, use whatever resources you have to develop some communication skills and a common plan, stat.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 03:19:04 PM by Noodle »

prognastat

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2016, 03:32:01 PM »
I can't tell what the OP wants. For his wife to go back to work full-time permanently? For his wife to go back to work until he can find a job that he likes better? For his wife to admit that she made bad choices about her house/finances/job so that he can be proven "right"?  What I can see is that there is apparently a young child in the picture (I think, this timeline of engaged/married/pregnant/unemployed is really hard to follow) and OP has not said one word about trying to figure out what is best for the baby and getting them both on the same page to accomplish that. All I hear about is what he wants, and what he says/thinks she wants. I think that is partially what some of the other posters are reacting to, although I don't necessarily agree that "shut up and pay the bills, manly person" is the correct response. I also don't hear the OP giving his wife any credit for the hard work she is doing as a SAHP. Since we know nothing about the income and expenses of this household, or the costs of said trips, two vacations a year (with one being to bring baby to visit family) may or may not be unreasonable.

What I can tell is that we have two people who think and communicate very differently, and seem to operate under different, unstated assumptions they are both attached to, who have somehow managed to become a merged legal entity and produce a child who will link them forever. So yes, instead of worrying about who is or was right and wrong, use whatever resources you have to develop some communication skills and a common plan, stat.

I interpreted that she was still pregnant, but wanting to be a SAMP, however after rereading it is not clear which of the two it is currently.

maco

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2016, 03:33:06 PM »
Ok, its all settled now - I am only paying the one living expense now. But every few months I can't help but bring it up. I am not asking for much - she continues to say that buying the house was a great idea. Taking the risky job was a great idea. I keep saying "if it weren't for me you would be foreclosing." In the back of my mind, I wonder if I hadn't married her, if she would have at least learned the lesson of "don't take a risky job if you have a mortgage."

I get occasionally mad now and then because she has to have a career she "loves" because she "loves" her work. She is unemployed. I took a job I tolerate because it pays. She won't even consider taking a job she "tolerates."
Let bygones be bygones. No good comes of bringing it up repeatedly. It just makes you sound petty. What do you want her to do? Pay you back for those 2 months? You're married now. You share assets. Her paying you back wouldn't do anything to your joint financial situation.

You can discuss what your needs, as a family, are going forward, but leave the past out of it.

mm1970

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2016, 05:42:23 PM »
My wife once told me that maybe she would like to be a sahm.

I said "sure, I would like to quit my job to be a sahd too. I would have time to study physics part time like I always wanted! That's so much better than working a boring job. Which one of us should do it then?"

I'm not a career person and neither is she. We both want to quit our job so it would be unfair that only one of us did. We agree on that. The solution is that we will make sure that we both quit at the same time soon enough. FIRE FTW.

Ha ha ha.

Sorry, I'm not a SAHM, but I know a few.  Good luck finding time to study physics.  If it's anything like maternity leave or weekends or week-long vacations with my kids, it's cleaning, cooking, dishes, wiping butts, piles of laundry, grocery shopping, oil changes, waiting for the plumber, paying the bills, volunteering at the school, brushing teeth, clipping toenails, helping with math and reading, coloring, playing mousetrap, cleaning up pee all over the bathroom, and lying in bed with a toddler at night, almost asleep, thinking "just go the fuck to sleep already".

mm1970

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2016, 05:46:45 PM »
I'm kind of amazed at the number of people who think its OK for a man who gets his fiance/wife pregnant to demand that she immediately go back to work after having the baby and shirk his responsibility to provide for his family. I made sure my wife knew when she had our child that if she wanted to stay home, she could(and that going back to work was also totally OK).

Full disclosure: I've been married almost 20 years.  My kids are 10 and 3 (originally didn't want kids, got talked into it).

I never wanted to stay at home.  That was never the plan.

However, we are a team.  It's OUR job to provide for our family. OUR job.

I worked and provided for the family while he was in graduate school.  For the last 14 years, we've both worked.
If he got injured tomorrow and could never work again, would I divorce him?  Because he cannot provide?  Um, no.  We'd have to make some life adjustments.  But we are married.  We do that together.

And when it came down to it, I cut my hours for a couple of periods of time when I had the kids.  We could afford it.  We made that decision together.  If my husband came home today and told me he was stressed out and wanted to cut his work hours in half, we'd discuss it.  (As it is, he has so much work he's having to work overtime.  We discuss that too.)

mm1970

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2016, 05:54:25 PM »
One more vote for a trip to a professional counselor.  I think you need somebody that can make her see how what she's doing is unfair... or help you see how you're being unfair given that we are only hearing one side of the story. 

Oh, and I've got a question for all y'all smart folks out there.  Between my sister-in-law and her wife, which one should I tell to stand up and be the breadwinner, and which one should I tell to stay home to clean the house and raise the kid?
And the guys up the street from me, what about them??  They both work and have a nanny for the kids.

ender

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2016, 05:58:06 PM »
Your post demonstrates a lot of contempt for your wife.

+1

Every time I read a post like this, I try to imagine the other person writing their version. Normally it doesn't take much imagination to write an equally "wow this person looks horrible" post.

crispy

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2016, 06:03:47 PM »
Is the "you shouldn't be a SAHM" a younger generation thing? I'm not that old, am I?

I mean, legitimately like half the posters in this thread believe a man should be able to look at his wife and tell her she *has* to get a job after the baby is born? All other issues aside, and there are plenty, this just feels very wrong to me. No one is backing me up on this?

I think most people feel like the OP and his wife should communicate and neither should have the right to unilaterally make a decision that effects both of them tremendously. I went back to work after my oldest was born and hated ever minute of it  so I quit and was a SAHM for several years. It was a decision I discussed with my husband and we were on the same page. We had also worked hard to get out of debt before having children so we had options. Our decisions were mutual and focused which is not happening in the OP's situation. We don't know the wife's side, but he is obviously seething with resentment which indicates that this is a symptom of some bigger issues.

I have a couple of friends who continue to be SAHMs even though their husband's feel overwhelmed and have asked them to go back to work. I think that is putting an unfair burden on one spouse and just builds resentment.  Both of these women have older children so there is no particular reason they can't work, they just don't want to. 

All that to say, he and his wife need to get on the same page and marriage counseling would probably help tremendously.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 06:10:08 PM by crispy »

Cassie

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2016, 06:22:07 PM »
I agree that once kids go to school there is no reason for the wife not to work if her spouse wants her too.  I could see where that situation would build a ton of resentment too.  As with most things in life communication is key.

ETBen

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2016, 08:06:20 PM »
The variety of responses here is fascinating. 

We only have one side of the story but it seems she is financially immature, maybe professionally too.  And she wants the lifestyle her family had, not realizing what it takes to create that.  It's fairly common. 

There still seems to be a lot of "his and hers" about money from your perspective and "ours" from hers.  Logically, if you want to be a stay at home parent and don't have some independent wealth stashed away, you need to move to a "ours" place about money.   Sitting down, looking at all of the facts, making joint decisions.  It's not about whether one thinks a mother should have the right.

For your his and hers perspective (money and past decisions), she must have a separate income.  From her perspective, it seems to be shared.  But then she must share in the responsibility, not just the opportunity to spend.

11ducks

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2016, 03:58:55 AM »
Your post demonstrates a lot of contempt for your wife.

+1

Every time I read a post like this, I try to imagine the other person writing their version. Normally it doesn't take much imagination to write an equally "wow this person looks horrible" post.

Ooh, challenge accepted.

Please help!!! My husband has always been so supportive of me, when I took the job of my dreams, when we told my parents he was so supportive and excited for me! Then we got pregnant, our dreams were coming true!! I'd always dreamed of being a SAHM.

Unfortunately the start up I had been working super hard towards never got off the ground, and I was laid off after 2 months. My morning sickness/pregnancy has been so bad/tiring, I haven't been able to get a new job (I've tried, but its not easy to get a job with morning sickness and while visibly pregnant!)

It is okay, because now we are going to be parents, and I'll be a SAHM just like my mother was. I cant imagine putting my baby into the care of strangers. There is so much to do to prepare the house, and get ready to be a Mom.
 I'm also trying to leverage the skills I have into a career that is flexible and could continue after baby is born (consultant), so I can try to contribute to our growing household.

 Fiancée has been wonderful and has paid our mortgage for me until he moved in. He has done it gladly, without me asking for it. I'm so glad he was willing to step up and support his family. (Presumably he also paid for a (fancy?) wedding during this time, so 'our' family could be complete?).
I can't wait for my parents and family to meet our new bundle of joy - family is so important. We will take the baby to see them, and celebrate later this year.

Up until this point, husband had been so supportive and encouraging of our future together.  We were on track together, and now, suddenly, it's like he's flipped a switch.

He is being so unkind to me, making snarky comments, insinuating I'm lazy and acting like I'm taking advantage of him, telling me that, if it wasn't for him, I'd be homeless, that I should somehow be working full-time to support him with a baby on the way?

He has been trying to tell me I cant go and see my family on a holiday this year, that my work experience is useless, and suddenly my career plans aren't good enough?

It's like everything was wonderful, when suddenly, my husband completely changed and it's making me stressed and miserable!

My body is changing, I feel so tired, fat, and unsexy. I cry all the time. He's not supportive and caring like he used to be.  I can tell he resents me, and I worry, maybe he resents the baby too? And I'm pregnant and have no money and have no idea what to do?! Please help!


Edited to add: I have no strong opinions about the situation one way or the other (other than, obviously, counselling for you both), am just accepting the challenge to post from the perspective of OP's partner. I don't know OP, could be totally off base.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 04:07:25 AM by 11ducks »

Kaikou

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2016, 04:34:36 AM »
Op I just want to commend you for reaching out to gain perspective on this situation. You have a lot going on, new marriage and new baby, those two things together break some people. I honestly want to applaud you for dealing with your struggles the best you can. Just breathe and take the necessary steps to get your family back on track. #prayers

BrickByBrick

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2016, 05:43:03 AM »
Definitely agree with all the marriage counseling votes, I have seen it work wonders.

Also another poster beat me to it but from a very practical standpoint what job would she be likely to get?  In today's market, if you don't have a friend's home-based daycare to rely on, then daycare could run you a pretty penny.  If she were to take a job only making 20K-35K then being a SAHM may be the better financial decision to make here.  There's a lot of different studies/calculations out there on the "worth"/ equivalent salary of a SAHM.  It would depend on where you live (H/LCOL), but I've seen one study (can't seem to find the link atm) that put a national average SAHM salary at about ~30K (daycare/cleaning/other savings 'synergies').

sunshine

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2016, 07:05:57 AM »
I've worked very part time the last 20 years so our now young adult kids had a parent at home at all times and a parent at  school functions etc.  This was a well thought out joint effort. I didn't decide. WE decided. It's sounds like you have been supportive in everything SHE wants. She needs to do the same for you. Two vacations etc is great if it puts no extra stress on you. However that doesn't sound like the case. Gee our first traveling far vacation with me primarily as  SAHM was when our kids were 5 and 8. Why? Because we had to make financial sacrifices to have a SAH parent. It's a privilege and a partnership. I took my job making our $ behave very seriously. Me working 10 hours compared to my spouse 4 plus times that also meant I did most of the stuff around the house. After all I had the time. The least I could do was let him relax a bit. After all he enabled me to work only 10 hours a week and enjoy my kids and home life stress free. I kept my 10 hours a week to keep my hand in my chosen profession by choice.  Your lady is not a princess and it is not your job to make everything fall into place. Marriage is a joint venture.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 07:13:27 AM by sunshine »

sunshine

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2016, 07:39:13 AM »
Is the "you shouldn't be a SAHM" a younger generation thing? I'm not that old, am I?

I mean, legitimately like half the posters in this thread believe a man should be able to look at his wife and tell her she *has* to get a job after the baby is born? All other issues aside, and there are plenty, this just feels very wrong to me. No one is backing me up on this?

I think most people feel like the OP and his wife should communicate and neither should have the right to unilaterally make a decision that effects both of them tremendously. I went back to work after my oldest was born and hated ever minute of it  so I quit and was a SAHM for several years. It was a decision I discussed with my husband and we were on the same page. We had also worked hard to get out of debt before having children so we had options. Our decisions were mutual and focused which is not happening in the OP's situation. We don't know the wife's side, but he is obviously seething with resentment which indicates that this is a symptom of some bigger issues.

I have a couple of friends who continue to be SAHMs even though their husband's feel overwhelmed and have asked them to go back to work. I think that is putting an unfair burden on one spouse and just builds resentment.  Both of these women have older children so there is no particular reason they can't work, they just don't want to. 

All that to say, he and his wife need to get on the same page and marriage counseling would probably help tremendously.

I know people that refuse also even though they are sinking financially or stressing their spouse to the hilt.  I have asked my spouse more than I can count if I should go back to work fulltime. Heck our babies are in college! It's always a no answer. I think this would be a far different answer if I hadn't made if my job to make our money behave and take my job as household CEO seriously.  I'm all for SAHM but it has to be a joint decision, give and take on both sides and always have a plan to get back to earning income. Breadwinner get sickl, dissabled, laid off  etc.

lemanfan

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2016, 07:54:15 AM »
To the OP:  You mention "love" (with quotation marks) for a job. But do you love each other?  Do you love her, and does she love you?  What do you do to keep loving each other?

Someone else wrote this:

Quote from: mm1970 link=topic=53784.msg1043817#msg1043817
However, we are a team.  It's OUR job to provide for our family. OUR job.

You have a kid together.  You owe it to the kid to try to keep falling deeper in love, and to provide a loving upbringing for the kid and its future potential siblings.  This includes communicating with each other about values, goals and methods to reach these goals.



Janie

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2016, 09:14:21 AM »
Quote
On the day we went to her parents to tell them of our engagement (this was also the first time I met them), she got a call about her "dream job." She had talked to them before and when we were friends, I told her I thought it was a BS offer. It was a startup run by a guy with more dreams than business sense.

How could I be negative on that day? In front of her parents she said, "this is the best day of my life - introducing my future husband to my parents and getting my dream job!" How could I have pulled her aside and been like, is this really a good idea?

OP did not communicate his perspective. Even if he felt he "couldn't" on that special day, he withheld his thoughts until resentment drove him to make pointless barbs. It's late in the game, but it's still possible to take responsibility for productive communication.

maco

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2016, 09:55:04 AM »
Also, OP, as a point of compromise on the whole "vacation to visit family after the baby is born" thing, how about this: invite family for a visit. Hire a maid service to clean the whole house right before the visit. Yes, that costs money, but it costs less than travel does. Do not invite family to visit and then expect a new mom who's only gotten 4 hours of sleep a night to clean the whole house for the visit.

ender

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2016, 10:00:08 AM »
Your post demonstrates a lot of contempt for your wife.

+1

Every time I read a post like this, I try to imagine the other person writing their version. Normally it doesn't take much imagination to write an equally "wow this person looks horrible" post.

Ooh, challenge accepted.

Please help!!! My husband has always been so supportive of me, when I took the job of my dreams, when we told my parents he was so supportive and excited for me! Then we got pregnant, our dreams were coming true!! I'd always dreamed of being a SAHM.

Unfortunately the start up I had been working super hard towards never got off the ground, and I was laid off after 2 months. My morning sickness/pregnancy has been so bad/tiring, I haven't been able to get a new job (I've tried, but its not easy to get a job with morning sickness and while visibly pregnant!)

It is okay, because now we are going to be parents, and I'll be a SAHM just like my mother was. I cant imagine putting my baby into the care of strangers. There is so much to do to prepare the house, and get ready to be a Mom.
 I'm also trying to leverage the skills I have into a career that is flexible and could continue after baby is born (consultant), so I can try to contribute to our growing household.

 Fiancée has been wonderful and has paid our mortgage for me until he moved in. He has done it gladly, without me asking for it. I'm so glad he was willing to step up and support his family. (Presumably he also paid for a (fancy?) wedding during this time, so 'our' family could be complete?).
I can't wait for my parents and family to meet our new bundle of joy - family is so important. We will take the baby to see them, and celebrate later this year.

Up until this point, husband had been so supportive and encouraging of our future together.  We were on track together, and now, suddenly, it's like he's flipped a switch.

He is being so unkind to me, making snarky comments, insinuating I'm lazy and acting like I'm taking advantage of him, telling me that, if it wasn't for him, I'd be homeless, that I should somehow be working full-time to support him with a baby on the way?

He has been trying to tell me I cant go and see my family on a holiday this year, that my work experience is useless, and suddenly my career plans aren't good enough?

It's like everything was wonderful, when suddenly, my husband completely changed and it's making me stressed and miserable!

My body is changing, I feel so tired, fat, and unsexy. I cry all the time. He's not supportive and caring like he used to be.  I can tell he resents me, and I worry, maybe he resents the baby too? And I'm pregnant and have no money and have no idea what to do?! Please help!

Exactly.

prognastat

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2016, 10:31:59 AM »
Also, OP, as a point of compromise on the whole "vacation to visit family after the baby is born" thing, how about this: invite family for a visit. Hire a maid service to clean the whole house right before the visit. Yes, that costs money, but it costs less than travel does. Do not invite family to visit and then expect a new mom who's only gotten 4 hours of sleep a night to clean the whole house for the visit.

I would agree with this if the vacations are so the family can meet the new baby I would say it is fair to see if they are willing to come visit instead. The costs would be lower and there would be less stress on both the mother and baby.

stratozyck

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2016, 10:47:39 AM »
Hi again all - I read all the responses and I should clarify some things:

I only wanted her to consider going back to her previous job. She was not getting paid for 11 whole months before giving birth. When we got engaged, we were living in separate cities. We had a plan to live in the same city in the near future.  When she told me she did not get paid, I immediately petitioned my workplace to allow me to work from one of their offices near her. The net effect of this is that while I can be here for the next 2-3 years, eventually this move will affect my career and to get senior level/management I will need to be at an HQ.

She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).

I moved my career temporarily for her - I am not a bad guy. Its just frustrating that so quickly this went from "we will both make good incomes" to "I am stuck with a mortgage I had no say in." Her lifestyle is not excessive. She is not a bad person and is a good wife and mother - she is just so overly optimistic. She is the type that if someone says "I promise you $1 a day for the next year," she books it as "I have $365 this year." I am more of "I will believe it when I see it" type. The startup job was not hard work like one person replied - they effectively folded 2 months after she started. The amount of work she did for them was very little as her experience basically was "Ok, we are setting up your position, please await for resources and the go ahead to hire people under you" to "Ok we have no resources, cya."

Since writing this, I told her I did not want to take two vacations this year. See, I have student loan debt. It stresses me out because my plan was to pay it off pretty quickly once out of school and this marriage has delayed that significantly. I am not regretting it - I love my wife and daughter - but geez don't I have a little right to be like, "this sucks a little?"

And also, finally, this is the icing on the cake. Her parents were both lawyers. Her mom was a volunteer/pro bono type. She got sent to expensive private schools. She has an adoptive brother. Guess what? Her parents are living above their means in retirement. Her adoptive brother got arrested for sex crimes and has had several stints in rehab for heroin (he is 29). They have spent lots of their savings on him ($50,000 in the past year alone to get the sex crime reduced to a probation). They also have a mortgage in retirement. She casually mentioned that its possible in ten years we will have to take care of them like her aunt did with her grandparents.

So yes, I believe I can be a little angry.

stratozyck

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2016, 11:00:21 AM »
I also want to add this:

Part of what I keep bringing up to her (we do have good communication) is that she could try to get a job in another industry and probably make 70k+. I won't say what her passion is, but to her, she simply *has* to work in that field. I fell for her because I like smart girls with passion, but in all honesty that field she is passionate about is dead at the moment.


ender

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2016, 11:07:15 AM »
geez don't I have a little right to be like, "this sucks a little?"

So yes, I believe I can be a little angry.


Are you looking for a chorus of "yeah your wife is horrible!" and validation of your feelings or what are you seeking from this thread?


Frankies Girl

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2016, 11:13:30 AM »
Based on what you've written, you and your wife are not only not on the same page... you're not even reading the same book. Or possibly in the same book store.

Seriously, if you love her and want to save your marriage, get into counseling ASAP. Otherwise your resentment will turn into anger and contempt (it's already happening) and will poison the relationship.

justajane

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2016, 11:16:58 AM »
She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).

Wait, you want her to feel regret about making a decision in her life that currently affects you that she made before she even knew you? This is just so bizarre. I really don't understand your perspective.

There are plenty of things that my husband has to deal with about me that "he had no say in." That's just marriage. It's how you deal with it that determines the happiness and possibly the longevity of your partnership. But to be this bitter about a decision that was made before she even knew you, especially one as benign as buying a house?? I truly don't get it.

You come across as very bitter towards your wife and not wholly "in" this relationship. This especially comes across in your frustrations with her family. You don't see them as your family. After ten years of marriage, I honestly think of my husband's parents as my responsibility. They're my family too. I love them. Maybe that will come with time for you, but I think it's an important part of becoming fully "in."   

maco

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #78 on: April 09, 2016, 11:37:43 AM »
She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).
Since it's a 15, not 30, year mortgage, your payments are having a much higher principal:interest ratio than on a 30, so that's something. You're getting equity in the house. You'll have to move in a couple years? Fine. In the meanwhile, the house is gaining in equity beyond whatever down payment she saved up and invested in it to start with. When you move in a few years, sell this house and use THAT for the down payment on the new one. You are not missing out on the opportunity to make a down payment on a house in a better location later.

Janie

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #79 on: April 09, 2016, 11:39:55 AM »
Quote
(we do have good communication)

From what you've written, it is hard to believe this.

Quote
So yes, I believe I can be a little angry.

I can't see how this helps you. "Should I be upset?" doesn't seem like the right question. If you want to nurture anger and resentment by feeding it rationalizations and justifications, go ahead. That's not likely to lead to a satisfying outcome for anyone.

Tyson

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #80 on: April 09, 2016, 11:42:55 AM »
Sell the house and move. 

Stupendous

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #81 on: April 09, 2016, 11:46:34 AM »
She bought the house before we started dating. I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. This house is still a mistake because as in the previous paragraph, it is very likely we will move. Currently I live away from my job and she has no job. It is not a long term stable situation and because of the 15/year mortgage that I had no say in, I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).

The house wasn't a mistake if she bought it before you 2 entered a relationship. She had no idea what her life would end up like.

And also, finally, this is the icing on the cake. Her parents were both lawyers. Her mom was a volunteer/pro bono type. She got sent to expensive private schools. She has an adoptive brother. Guess what? Her parents are living above their means in retirement. Her adoptive brother got arrested for sex crimes and has had several stints in rehab for heroin (he is 29). They have spent lots of their savings on him ($50,000 in the past year alone to get the sex crime reduced to a probation). They also have a mortgage in retirement. She casually mentioned that its possible in ten years we will have to take care of them like her aunt did with her grandparents.

Did you know about all the family problems before/while dating and before the pregnancy? A person's family is something to review as part of the dating process. A drug abuser can destroy families and marriages emotionally and financially so I avoid dating people with these type of family problems depending on how involved everyone is. If she wants to help her parents then you'll need to communicate that in order for that to be possible she will need to go back to work so that you and her do not become a burden on your own children.

And be careful and don't get her pregnant again until you can work through all this so you don't end up with 2 child support payments.

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #82 on: April 09, 2016, 11:55:58 AM »
I will say I'm an extremely selfish person, so that is probably a reason I haven't gotten married yet. I'm also probably the worst person to go to for relationship advice, but I will say this from a woman's perspective and you can take what you will out of it.

You were forced to pay for a house you didn't want. She did not communicate with you to begin with, I feel she is extremely selfish in her own right, or maybe just naive. Did you guys talk about goals before getting married? Did she ever mention wanting to be a housewife?

Since you are making the payments, it's your call. You can say that you can't afford it and move. If she refuses, tell her she can get her own job and make payments on the house. If you are bringing home the money, then I believe you have every right to place her on a budget and set expectation on what each of your responsibilities are. It is okay to stay at home if it's agreed that it makes sense, and if each person understands their role.

I have joke with my SO that I want to be stay at home many times. The guilt of it would cause so much restrictions on my freedom that I don't think I could bare it. If she doesn't feel that guilt, maybe you should make those restrictions a little more blunt (giving her a budget and set list of what she will need to do if you are providing income). I come from a spoiled background myself, so I understand the desire to be taken care of. It's fear that keeps me independent, and I think that's something she might not have, so show it to her.

Again, I am extremely young and naive myself. I don't have any children and am not married but in a rather long relationship, so take this all with a grain of salt. I know it's far more complex than I could imagine.

Allie

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #83 on: April 09, 2016, 12:32:55 PM »
It sounds like your plan is to move in 2-3 years to get back to your HQ and climb the ladder; pay off the student loans; and make plans for a stable, early retirement.  Her plan is to pursue her passion; help others; and be an amazing wife and mother.  These two plans don't sound mutually exclusive*.  You just need to sit down and mesh them together, which, from the outside, seems really easy.

Dump the house (rent or sell), rent a smaller place in her town or move to yours, create a budget that lets you dump the loans and for her to stay at home.  Anything above and beyond she brings in is just icing on the cake.  The forum will be great place to get advice on how to structure your life to make this happen.

What will keep everything from coming together is resentment or a lack of cohesive vision for your future.  You and your wife are more than a team.  You are a family.  It's like a team and friendship to the nth degree because you are working for the betterment of each member and the whole for now and into the future after you are long dead through the raising of your children.  What happened last year is nothing when you compare it to the lifetime of plans and decisions you have to make. 

*if you have bumped into my posts or journal before, you will know that this is exactly the plan my husband and I have.  I do passion projects, stay at home, volunteer, and watch the finances while my husband works and we stash for the future.  I love it and he has never expressed any resentment.  If he did, we'd have to change the plans, but it can work.

FrugalFan

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #84 on: April 09, 2016, 12:47:46 PM »
I am not regretting it - I love my wife and daughter - but geez don't I have a little right to be like, "this sucks a little?"

So, things didn't go exactly the way you had hoped, and maybe it does suck a little. Acknowledge that -and move on! Dwelling on is not doing anybody any good! And if she just recently had a baby, give her time to adjust. She may very well want to start working again once she has recovered from the pregnancy, birth, and sleep deprivation. I agree with some of the others that your negativity and resentment is poisoning your relationship together. Giver her some time, then make plans for the future TOGETHER.

Ellsie Equanimity

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #85 on: April 09, 2016, 03:00:05 PM »

I only wanted her to consider going back to her previous job. . . eventually this move will affect my career and to get senior level/management I will need to be at an HQ.

. . .I only wanted her to admit that buying a house was a mistake. . .I am stuck socking a lot away into this house when I'd rather be renting a small apartment and saving for a downpayment (at higher rates of return than the mortgage).

I moved my career temporarily for her - I am not a bad guy. . .

I have student loan debt. It stresses me out because my plan was to pay it off pretty quickly once out of school and this marriage has delayed that significantly.

The problem with communication is most people think they are good at it. Even if you actually are, it is still difficult to navigate.

It sounds to me like you feel like you are sacrificing for your wife and don't feel respected for it, or possibly like she even "gets" it. Hence wanting her to admit that your analysis of the situation is right.

Try talking to her about that. Also, as much as you can, orient your conversations and your thoughts to see the two of you as a team.

Try a conversation that goes something like:

"Hey, honey. I know your dream is (xyz). I love (insert attributes) about you that drive you to that. I also really want us to be financially stable. How can we work together to make both of those things happen? Right now it's hard for me to feel like I have your support in our finances and I'm guessing it's hard for you to feel like I support you in (career/staying at home), too. How can we get on the same page and support each other better?"

Listen to your wife's thoughts and truly consider them. Yes, the situation may be difficult for you, but it's assuredly difficult for her, too, and it doesn't help either of you to focus on your own hardship. Give your wife the benefit of the doubt that she isn't trying to be against you and does want what's best for you. Orient the conversation back to the two of you being a team; don't fall into the trap of seeing it as you against her.

I also support the idea that counseling would be good, or even an informal time of the two of you talking together to another couple you respect. It can help to have outside input for both of your perspectives and everybody (even the best communicators) can use tips on how to support one another better.

brycedoula

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #86 on: April 09, 2016, 06:54:17 PM »
Having a baby is not a f.t. job but it is if she does everything else too.

Oh honey, having a baby is ABSOLUTELY a full-time job, at least until the child gets older.

Source: have a 10-week old infant - my life is a constant cycle of nursing, napping & diaper changing.

b_girl

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2016, 09:22:42 PM »
Having a baby is not a f.t. job but it is if she does everything else too.

Oh honey, having a baby is ABSOLUTELY a full-time job, at least until the child gets older.

Source: have a 10-week old infant - my life is a constant cycle of nursing, napping & diaper changing.

Quoted for truth...

DebtFreeBy25

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2016, 11:30:06 PM »
This sounds too much like the 1950s. Women are just as responsible as men are for providing for their family financially. Unfortunately, a huge block in this is that there is a serious gender gap between men and women for pay. Just because a couple has a child doesn't mean that the man is solely responsible for the financial livelihood of his family. They are both adults and equally responsible.

Yes to all of this. I'm assuming that OP didn't coerce, badger or otherwise pressure his wife into getting pregnant or carrying to term. If any of the preceding are true, all bets are off. But I'm going to choose to imagine OP as a reasonable person and figure that his wife had an equal or greater say in the choice to have this child. It's not okay for her to make a unilateral decision that OP needs to provide all or nearly all of their income.

Should OP support her through at least six weeks of maternity leave and more if necessary? Yep. Should OP be supportive if she's actively looking for a job? Yep. Is OP obligated to financially support her indefinitely because he knocked her up? Big Ol' Nope

Moving past the antiquated gender role debate, I think it would be helpful to know more about OP's job, finances and feelings. I understand that he's upset about having to deal with the consequences of his wife's choices. That's all perfectly reasonable, but is he financially able to manage the situation? It sounds like they're in debt and that his wife's refusal to make any significant financial contribution is potentially creating an emergency (debt, kid and spendy lifestyle on one income).

The lesson here is that it's important to both know and accept your partner's finances and financial habits before marrying. My husband and I have been married for nearly six years and continue to maintain separate accounts. I still wouldn't have married him if I couldn't trust him to manage money. Considering a worst case scenario is often helpful at highlighting weaknesses. Worst case scenario, if you become severely disabled you are at the complete mercy of your spouse. Choose wisely. 

Zamboni

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #89 on: April 10, 2016, 02:26:04 AM »
I'm somewhat confused by some of these details.

You moved locations to be with her . . . but she does not live near family anyway because you have to travel a long distance to see them? Now she is not working, and the location is neither ideal for your job nor close to family? The mortgage payments are too high and you don't seem particularly to like this house?

It seems like you need to sit down together and plan out a roadmap for at least the next 3-5 years. If she wants to take care of children and do part time consulting, then why not just go ahead and get on the same page about moving to a new city as needed for your career? If she has objection to that, then based upon the information I have this will be a bumpy road for a long time. But maybe she will be fine with it and agree that you just need to sell the current house now to get ready for an impending move?

If she really, really likes the house, but has no income and it is not in a good location for your job, then I'm sorry but she needs to consider the needs of the family over her own attachment to this inanimate object. Bear in mind that moving with a small child in tow is stressful, but the child doesn't care one way or the other where you live at this point, so any resistance to moving from her is purely selfishly motivated (and I don't even know if she will resist . . .)

Also, you are under no obligation whatsoever to ever give a dime to her parents and/or brother. I would express my extreme discomfort with any ideas she expresses along those lines every single time she mentions it.

maco

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #90 on: April 10, 2016, 07:04:47 AM »
Also, you are under no obligation whatsoever to ever give a dime to her parents and/or brother. I would express my extreme discomfort with any ideas she expresses along those lines every single time she mentions it.
Legally, that depends what state you and they live in.

Zamboni

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #91 on: April 10, 2016, 07:33:53 AM »
^Ouch wow thank you for that. I had no idea about these laws, and most of us with financially irresponsible parents probably need to find out more. If his spouse is not working (no income), could a nursing home come after his income some day?

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2016, 07:50:14 AM »
Wow - some old school conservative views here, I don't necessarily agree that male = provider and female can choose whether to work or not. I'm more liberal and believe it should be a joint decision based on aptitudes for earning and caring, and availability of childcare.

So I'm seeing you feel you wanted to make a joint decision, but your wife has decided she isn't working - I can easily see why that has frustrated you. I'm also seeing you are very rational, structured, planning for every eventuality, with your wife occupying an opposite point of view.  Counselling looks like it would help here - neither of you are wrong, but you could each understand the other more, and negotiate some compromises.  Then you can make plans for the future for your family, that you both buy into.


Mongoose

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #93 on: April 10, 2016, 08:37:53 AM »
I'm somewhat confused by some of these details.

You moved locations to be with her . . . but she does not live near family anyway because you have to travel a long distance to see them? Now she is not working, and the location is neither ideal for your job nor close to family? The mortgage payments are too high and you don't seem particularly to like this house?

Me too. It's very unclear, other than moving to be near the job she no longer has and one (?) of you owning a house there, why you are in your current location? Can you sell the house and move to the location that is better for your job?

I'm going to assume that the baby is young at this point. And you seem to be worried about your long term job prospects because of your location? And feeling trapped there because of the house? And perhaps your frustration is resulting in your reporting here to be negative (are you frantic, anxious, frustrated)?

First, I would also strongly recommend marriage counseling. You guys haven't been married very long and it's hard enough to get on the same page with another person...adding baby makes that tons more difficult.

Second, although I do agree with the commenters expressing concern about your tone, I sympathize with your frustration. I was the principle wage earner in my marriage for years. When we had no kids, DH refused to work most jobs because they were "beneath him." He is just as optimistic as you describe your wife. It sometimes makes me nuts. We were married a long time before we had kids because of this. He finally decided he really wanted kids and wanted to be a SAHD. I was making enough to afford that. We talked a lot and agreed. Seven months into the pregnancy, he abruptly changed his mind unilaterally. I ended up juggling 85% of the baby care, household stuff and earning most of our income. It was tough. But...we decided to stay together and try to work out mutually acceptable circumstances. We had to move locations to someplace I dislike. DH now is working for very little pay at a job he was previously sure was "beneath him". I have a part time job, the children and all the house, including most of the remodeling. I live someplace I loathe. I am definitely frustrated.

That said, sniping comments to your spouse aren't going to help. If you want to keep your family together, you need to start with where you are now. How you got here is a collection of sunk costs. You and your wife need to put together a plan that is agreeable to both and practical enough to actually have a chance of working (I add that because my spouse can be wildly impractical in terms of optimism and dreaming). Common goals will help. Anything in the past is counterproductive in terms of rectifying your current situation.

Cpa Cat

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2016, 09:01:12 AM »
Let the past go and make a plan for the future.

First - there's no point in her getting a job while you have a baby if you need to move to another city for your job within a couple of years. What's your plan with that? She's going to work for a year and then you're going to ask her to quit and make her start over the job hunt elsewhere? Let her work as a "consultant" and SAHM until you move back to where you need to be. Let her know that you're cool with her being a SAHM for a couple of years, but it needs to be temporary. Don't have any more babies.

Second - Sell your house. Who cares about it? It's temporary and you hate it.  Tell your wife that you'd feel more comfortable if you guys had a cheaper place while she's staying home and not working. Can you move back to your original location sooner rather than later?

I'm with you - it sounds like you got trapped. It sounds frustrating. But you were an active participant in getting trapped. You didn't delay marriage and baby while your wife sorted out her career goals. You didn't tell her to put her unaffordable house on the market when she lost her roommate, instead you just paid the mortgage and then moved into it. She may have decided to buy the house - but you decided to keep it.

You act like life is something that just happened to you. But actually, you're a victim of yourself. You've repeatedly Knight-in-Shining-Armored this woman. You didn't want to ruin her excitement on her big day, so you supported her in a life-altering decision you didn't like. You swooped in to pay her mortgage. You put your career on hold to move to her location. You're prancing around on your white horse and blaming your princess for the manure.

prognastat

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2016, 09:27:02 AM »
Another option might be depending on how the housing and rental markets are in your area it might be worth renting out the house while renting a smaller place/apartment closer to work if the housing market is currently down and that is what is holding your wife back from selling it. That way you get the shorter commute and hopefully the rental cost will at least offset the cost of mortgage or possible even cover some of the cost of renting a place closer.

This depends heavily on the housing and rental market in your area and would need a decent bit of investigating first.

DroppedInOn

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2016, 09:51:06 AM »
I didn't read most of the comments but read the original post. I have this to say:

It sounds like you both need a little education in making sound life and financial decisions. This happened with my ex and I, where I enforced sound financial decisions (savings, cutting spending, etc), but I also was in the process of figuring out what the hell I was gonna do career-wise. My wife supported my floundering for a few years, but eventually got fed up. I finally settled on a career that I both like and makes good money, so financially things started to align.

There is no "normal" as you originally proposed, but what I've learned is that a) focus on cleaning YOUR side of the street, not hers. In other words, don't blame her for you being a victim. You don't need to be a victim of anyone else but yourself. And b) RESEARCH EVERYTHING. Don't ever just go into anything important (marriage, car, car loan, mortgage, new city, house, etc) without doing a ton of research and asking at least 2 other people what they think. Ultimately go with your gut, and if you don't have a clear direction that you FEEL, don't do it.

As someone said, what's done is done. Focus on figuring out what needs to be done right now. Meditate and figure out what the overall goal is, then see what the next indicated action towards that goal is. It will present itself if you remain calm and with good intentions.

Good luck.

SailorGirl

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2016, 11:12:14 AM »
I took a job I tolerate because it pays. She won't even consider taking a job she "tolerates."

Ok, quit.  Tell her you want to pursue your dreams too and the house is her responsibility. But then, you presumably took this job that you "tolerate" before you met her so is that your mistake that you were expecting her to fix when you got married?

As so many others have said you need to learn to communicate.  It doesn't sound as if there was any discussion about children, financials or life goals before the wedding and those things need to be addressed as soon as possible.  You assumed she would do what you told her (Not take the job, keep working) and she assumed you would happily support her.  It didn't work out that way and now you can either figure out a new plan or become resentful and bitter.

SandyBoxx

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #98 on: April 10, 2016, 04:14:06 PM »

You act like life is something that just happened to you. But actually, you're a victim of yourself. You've repeatedly Knight-in-Shining-Armored this woman. You didn't want to ruin her excitement on her big day, so you supported her in a life-altering decision you didn't like. You swooped in to pay her mortgage. You put your career on hold to move to her location. You're prancing around on your white horse and blaming your princess for the manure.

This is brilliant - especially the last line!

I do not think it has been mentioned yet - while lots of these issues started before baby, if you still have a child under 1 this is not necessarily the time to expect your wife to be at her most rational.  Learn to communicate better over the next few months, then make some hard decisions together once baby is a little bit older.  Few of us are at our best with a new baby in the house (yourself included.)  Hang in there, I am sure you guys will sort this out.

Cassie

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Re: Should I be upset with my spouse or is this normal?
« Reply #99 on: April 10, 2016, 05:17:33 PM »
"Oh honey, having a baby is ABSOLUTELY a full-time job, at least until the child gets older.

Source: have a 10-week old infant - my life is a constant cycle of nursing, napping & diaper changing."


I had 3 kids within 7 years and also did all the housework, errands, etc because my husband was working. He did the outside work and took care of the cars. So I know from personal experience. I did not say it was super easy but very doable.