Sharing a rented Ski Condo-Am I being Bxxchy?

[frugaliknowit]

Hi Mustachians,

I thougt I would run this by you all.  Maybe I am being selfish and greedy.

Background:  I have a group of about 8 friends that at various times have split up a condo for 5, 6, or 7 days for a ski trip.  Basically with some variation, we take the total cost with taxes and cleanup and divide it up evenly.  Occasionally we take in a straggler and throw them on the couch for a few bucks and split up the money.  A kind of co-op.

Five of our group was recently introduced to a couple friend of one of the guys in our group (we will call him "Bill").  I am not sure how this happened but this new guy took it upon himself to set up a condo near Lake Tahoe for a trip next February, 2018.  5 of us indicated we wanted to do 7 nights.  There had been no discussion of Bill and his husband only wanting to do 6 nights.

Bill comes up with a proposal where he and his husband are staying 6 nights, another guy is staying 5 nights, the other 5 of us are staying 7 nights.  He takes the total bill, divides it by the total number of nights everyone is staying (52), to come up with a "nightly rate" of $70.97.  He then takes $70.97 and multiplies it by the number of nights each person is staying to come up with "their bill".  Basically, he turns it into a hotel...

It pisses me off as:

In the past, prettty much everyone stays the same number of days and we just divide the bill.  I feel like I am subsidizing the couple staying 6 days and the guy staying 5 days.  Under his math, my bill is $497 versus $461.  While that's not a lot of money, why should I pay it?  Had I known they were only going to stay 6 nights, I would have said "forget about it".   Furthermore, the rate on the condo is lower because of the 7 night stay and he and his husband are not even staying 7 nights.

Have any of you come accross this or have any thoughts?

[JustGettingStarted1980]

Yes

[spokey doke]

There has been a spate of threads ranting about all sorts of incredibly privileged 1st world problems...spending on a cruise...renovating my home costs so much...ski condo guy is costing me extra...

I think we have strayed very far from the foundations of MMM...

[Frankies Girl]

It is a difference of $36 for 7 nights. I'd chalk that up to variations in pricing deals and let that part go.

But it sounds like the real sticking point is that the person making the plans didn't clue anyone in until after it was a done deal. As they are new in this group, it likely does rankle a bit for them to decide what is fair and where and when everyone is staying and then just tell you without your ability to say this doesn't work for you unless you cancel on the whole trip right then (making you seem like the bad guy).

If so, I would tell them in the future, you do not want to book without having all the details including who is going, how long everyone is staying, etc.. already costed out and agreed upon. Be clear with your communication needs going forward.

[Roland of Gilead]

Friends are cheap.  There is no way I would pay an extra $36 to share a week of fun with a bunch of friends. That is insane.

[Feivel2000]

The way he is splitting the costs sounds very reasonable to me.

Could it be that you simply don't like this guy?

[YttriumNitrate]

Clearly the way to solve this problem is to get a Tahoe Value Pass and sell your "ski-with-a-friend" days to these 5/6 day freeloaders in order to make up for your lost $36. ;-)

[frugaliknowit]

Clearly the way to solve this problem is to get a Tahoe Value Pass and sell your "ski-with-a-friend" days to these 5/6 day freeloaders in order to make up for your lost $36. ;-)

Wow, GREAT idea!!  Us 7dayers have them...

[EarthSurfer]

Wow, you have spent a lot of heartbeats steaming over this.

You are being amazingly petty.

Someone has taken the initiative and booked a place, and will be lucky if someone doesn't stiff him.

Have a beer, smoke a bowl, or whatever calms you down.

If you don't like it, volunteer to book the accommodations next year.

[former player]

It's not the money, folks, it's that the new guy "took it upon himself" to organise the trip.  Toes have been trodden upon.

[Feivel2000]

He is probably also getting all those credit card rewards and will not share them.

[SnackDog]

Tell him it is a weekly rate and he is free to come for any part of a week but the rate is weekly, not daily or hourly.  I have friends who get quarter shares of houses near Long Island.  The whole group pays the same fee and gets access to the house designated weeks on thursday to wednesday.  Some people show up thursday and stay a week. Most show up Friday afternoon or even after work in NYC and leave Sunday night.  Everyone pays the same because everyone has the same access, whether they exercise it or not.

[FIRE47]

I have to say this is the kind of thing that cross the line from frugal to cheap.

I can see the argument both ways - why should the guy coming 5 days subsidize your 7 days? Between friends it seems like a fairly reasonable way to do it. Most adult couples especially the kind that rent out ski resorts don't even think along those lines and the guy probably didn't even ponder the small $ amount involved.

The other thing about being the guy that books and pays is you usually come up short. No one gives exact change, someone forgets, someone cancels plus he has the fun time of going around collecting and reminding everyone to pay up.

[Miss Piggy]

Maybe I am being selfish and greedy.

Maybe not selfish and greedy, but perhaps petty. So the new guy does the math differently than you would have. Okay. And the result is a $36 difference. Is $36 over a week of vacation expenses really that big of a deal?

[pk_aeryn]

I don't understand the issue here- you're staying more days than some people, correct? And your bill is $36 more for staying 1 or 2 nights longer?? It sounds like they are subsidizing you, not the other way around.  What am I missing?

[Megma]

I organized a trip with friends earlier this year and we did the math exactly how this guy did. Those of us who stayed more nights paid more. Seems fair to me.

[Telecaster]

I would figure it the same way "Bill" did it. 

And if you don't like "Bill's" arrangement you are free to reject it and come up with different accommodations.  Get as pissed off as much as you want, but you are only the victim if you want to be. 

[researcher1]

There has been a spate of threads ranting about all sorts of incredibly privileged 1st world problems...spending on a cruise...renovating my home costs so much...ski condo guy is costing me extra...

I hate when people make stupid comments like this.

We live in a 1st world country, therefore we have 1st world problems!

Should people talk about how our village's source of water has been contaminated rhino dung?
Or ways to reduce the humidity within our huts in the Amazon rain forest?

If topics like vacation spending and home renovations are improper in your mind, then what should people be discussing on this forum?

[Finallyunderstand]

You think it's wrong for you to subsidize them staying shorter but think it's ok for them to subsidize you staying longer?  Hmmmm

I did a trip out to Tahoe with 9 people this year and did the math the same as this guy.  Everyone thought it made sense.  And as some posters have mentioned, I was the person booking it, coordinating with the owner of the home (VRBO), signing the contract, putting up an  $800 security deposit, etc. My reward for doing all the legwork was not everyone paying exactly what they owed (flurry of emails and changing of places led to slightly different pricing getting lost in the shuffle) and me being on the hook for the difference plus the time I spent getting everything ready.  Did I complain, no!  If someone is complaining about $36 then I wouldn't want them to come anyway. 

[YoungGranny]

TBH I would likely calculate the math the same way he did. I've booked accommodations before and everyone paid for the nights they were there with some type of 75% minimum. If I book a week I don't invite someone who would only stay 1-2 nights cuz that's not worth it. But when I traveled recently my DH and I needed 2 nights to stay and were going to get our own place. Then friends said we could stay with them but they were staying 4 days - I said sure if we could just pay for 2 nights. Long story short, they wanted better accommodation and moved for the other 2 nights then wanted us to split 50/50 and got mad when we didn't agree. Didn't ruin any friendships but left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd say pony up the $36 and if it really bothers you be in charge of accommodations next year.

[surfhb]

There has been a spate of threads ranting about all sorts of incredibly privileged 1st world problems...spending on a cruise...renovating my home costs so much...ski condo guy is costing me extra...

I hate when people make stupid comments like this.

We live in a 1st world country, therefore we have 1st world problems!

Should people talk about how our village's source of water has been contaminated rhino dung?
Or ways to reduce the humidity within our huts in the Amazon rain forest?

If topics like vacation spending and home renovations are improper in your mind, then what should people be discussing on this forum?

You're missing the context of the term 😉 

It means we should understand how small our issues are compared to 95 percent of living beings.     

Anyway, maybe he's a control freak.... the kinda person that needs to make all the plans?  Are you the same?    As long as you have the nights you want just lay low and enjoy your time

My girlfriend is like this.... I can relax knowing everything is taken care of.  So nice.

[spokey doke]

There has been a spate of threads ranting about all sorts of incredibly privileged 1st world problems...spending on a cruise...renovating my home costs so much...ski condo guy is costing me extra...

I hate when people make stupid comments like this.

We live in a 1st world country, therefore we have 1st world problems!

Should people talk about how our village's source of water has been contaminated rhino dung?
Or ways to reduce the humidity within our huts in the Amazon rain forest?

If topics like vacation spending and home renovations are improper in your mind, then what should people be discussing on this forum?

Nothing on MMM rises to the level of 'hate' for me...

And I think the whole point of MMM is sharing about financial independence, early retirement, and the means to those ends...including frugality...so saving money on vacations is right on target for this forum IMO.

I think it is pretty silly for people to complain about (the first world problem of) having to pay an extra $36 more than another person for an entire week at a ski condo, esp. when they are staying an extra night. Asking for ideas on skiing frugally (or cruising, or whatever other first world problem might be on your plate at the moment)...sure.

[acroy]

Friends are cheap.  There is no way I would pay an extra $36 to share a week of fun with a bunch of friends. That is insane.

LOL

[Retire-Canada]

Have any of you come accross this or have any thoughts?

Bill's proposal is totally reasonable.

[Mgmny]

wait, how did this guy book the condo for 7 nights when he was only planning on staying 5? How did that happen? You said HE booked it?

Are you saying that he booked a trip for you and your friends for a time period that he didn't want to go? That's really weird.

[Mgmny]

Another thing to consider here, that always makes me feel weird in situations like this is that you are all splitting the bill evenly (and this is what my friends do too), but someone is getting better accommodations than someone else. I would find it super unlikely that in a condo there is magically 4 equal bedrooms. Maybe one of them is a master suite with private bathroom (who gets that?), maybe one room is 2 single beds and another a king, etc etc. I don't have a solution, but just something else to consider. if you're torn up about it, send an email to the group and say, "I call the master bedroom!" and boom, now you're getting a value deal.

[charis]

I don't understand the issue here- you're staying more days than some people, correct? And your bill is $36 more for staying 1 or 2 nights longer?? It sounds like they are subsidizing you, not the other way around.  What am I missing?

+1

What would the alternative have been?  Bill books for the whole group for the five nights everyone is there, then another subset books for night six, and then the final batch for night seven? And add in cleaning fees, etc. for each of those three stays?   Bill has saved you a TON by doing it this way.  You should thank him.

I organized a trip with friends earlier this year and we did the math exactly how this guy did. Those of us who stayed more nights paid more. Seems fair to me.

I think I (kind of) understand your consternation over someone planning a trip differently than your group normally does, but, yeah, this is an exceedingly fair way to calculate the cost split. 

Also, aren't you paying less than if 5-6 day people weren't going at all, because the total cost per night decreases as the number of people increases?  You'd have to pay for the 7 nights anyway.

[Jouer]

Tell him it is a weekly rate and he is free to come for any part of a week but the rate is weekly, not daily or hourly.  I have friends who get quarter shares of houses near Long Island.  The whole group pays the same fee and gets access to the house designated weeks on thursday to wednesday.  Some people show up thursday and stay a week. Most show up Friday afternoon or even after work in NYC and leave Sunday night.  Everyone pays the same because everyone has the same access, whether they exercise it or not.

Correct!

[Inaya]

There has been a spate of threads ranting about all sorts of incredibly privileged 1st world problems...spending on a cruise...renovating my home costs so much...ski condo guy is costing me extra...

I think we have strayed very far from the foundations of MMM...

Well we can't all write off our vacations as business expenses...

[honeybbq]

I often share ski condos and there's always a million ways to split the bill. FWIW, I think the way Bill did it was fair.

It's less than 10% of the over ski condo price. I'd say move on and worry about bigger and better issues.

[Barben]

Well you're definitely justified in being peeved about this guy coming in and making plans for a whole group of people he's new to, and it may be worth pulling him aside at some point and saying "Thank you for organizing this, but next time I would appreciate getting some input from the rest of the people going on the trip."

That said, whenever my friends and I go on a trip like this (also usually skiing), we just pay by person-night, which is the same set-up as this.  So if we're using 100 person-nights, and I'm staying for 6, I pay for 6% of the total condo cost.

You mentioned a weekly rate beating a daily rate too, but keep in mind that you (as a group) won't have a cleaning/booking/turnover fee, since the place will be occupied for the whole week.  Plus, to reconcile this you'd have Bill pay a higher rate?  I think I'd write it off as sweat equity and call it a day paying the same rate monetarily.

[Catbert]

Personally, if I were arranging the trip I would charge everyone the same whether they stayed 5 days or 7.  If I were "the new guy" I'd do it how ever it had been done by the group before.   

But in this case the new guy was the one who took the time and trouble to book the accommodations so he gets to pick any reasonable way of dividing costs.  By the night has a logic to it so I'd go along to get along.

[Goldielocks]

I would pay whatever the organizer asked that seems relatively fair.   This is it.  No problem.

I would also ask to have the 7 night people get first pick of the bedrooms.   Normally the organizer gets to take the best bedroom (or give it to a guest of honor / special needs reason)...   Getting to pick the bedroom is certainly worth under $50...

Now, should we talk about cheaper ways to be accomodated?   You will be making all of your meals using the hopefully, included, kitchen... etc....?   How about choosing to not ski for at least one of the days to save a lot of money?  How will you reduce spending in the bars / apres ski while you are there?

[By the River]

We are in the process of booking a vacation place for 7-8 people that has a 5 night minimum.  A couple of friends cannot stay all 5 nights so we are doing the same as the original post. # of nights/total cost*nights you stayed.   Never thought about doing it differently.  However, the ones that cannot stay all 5 nights are only staying the last 3 so they will be getting the pull-out couch in the living room as first ones to the place gets dibs on the bedrooms.  (yes, we known each other over 30 years and still are childish enough to actually say "dibs" when we get in.)

[Sibley]

I'm a CPA. I look at these types of calculations for a living. The methodology used is fair and equitable. OP, you don't have a math problem. You have an emotional/change problem. That's your problem, not Bill's. Deal.

[mm1970]

Seems fair to me.  The only other way I'd think of changing it up would be if there was an obvious difference in size/ quality of bedroom.

Long ago and far away, my roommate (we had a 2BR apt) had a boyfriend who moved in over the summer.  She had the master, so her rent was slightly more than half the total.  She wanted to just have him split her part of the rent, because he was sharing her room.

However, he also had use of the kitchen and living room, so we ended up doing more of a calculation based on square footage.  We each paid 1/3 of the "rent" on the shared living spaces.  I paid my portion of my bed/bath, and they split her master.

[iris lily]

Friends are cheap.  There is no way I would pay an extra $36 to share a week of fun with a bunch of friends. That is insane.

LOL

Yeah, funny!

[Poundwise]

How about finding another friend or two who want to stay just 1 or 2 nights?

[CindyBS]

There has been a spate of threads ranting about all sorts of incredibly privileged 1st world problems...spending on a cruise...renovating my home costs so much...ski condo guy is costing me extra...

I hate when people make stupid comments like this.

We live in a 1st world country, therefore we have 1st world problems!

Should people talk about how our village's source of water has been contaminated rhino dung?
Or ways to reduce the humidity within our huts in the Amazon rain forest?

If topics like vacation spending and home renovations are improper in your mind, then what should people be discussing on this forum?

First, the OP specifically asked if she was being bitchy and asked people if they felt her reaction was out of line.  Op shouldn't ask if she didn't want honest opinions.

Second, "first world problems" is a colloquial term meaning a problem about something that is not life threatening or especially important in the grand scheme of life.  Many first world residents are going through extreme situations that are very stressful and that have nothing to do with rhinos, water holes, or huts.   Let's not insult the millions of us who live in first world countries that are going through a living hell with REAL problems, some that involve life or death, by assuming we don't have them.

I personally have a child with cancer and have spent the last 14 months turning my entire life upside down to keep him alive under enormously stressful conditions. 

I fully acknowledge that many people don't have the problems I have , and can get stressed out by regular situations.   I tend to keep my mouth shut when people complain about situations that seem like a dream come true for me, but when specifically asked - Yes, OP is overreacting about a measly $36 and is being bitchy.  Just being able to ski would be a dream come true for many.  Millions of people struggling, including in first world countries, would love to go on ANY vacation at all.  I certainly can afford one, but can't go because my son could literally die from going.

Asking about vacations, home renovations and the like are fine.  Even in my little hell, I talk about that stuff too.  Complaining about a situation that is clearly a privilege to be in AT ALL is pretty petty and I think people have a right to call others out on it.  I encourage anyone to spend a day in the pediatric ICU and trust me, all your first world problems will magically disappear. 

[charis]

Did the OP get scared off because no one agreed with him/her?

[J Boogie]

You know, we've looked at this backwards and forwards and inside out and so far we haven't been able to figure out why this bothers the OP.

I'll just address the elephant in the room.

These feelings are obviously microagressions stemming from the OP's unconscious bias against gay people.  Bill and his husband are paying their fair share.




All jokes aside, I prefer Bill's method.  For my brother's bachelor party/wedding weekend, a bunch of guys (mostly single/ traveling without their wives/families) rented out a place for a few days.  I participated in most of the events/meals but I didn't stay there as I was staying with my family in the cabin we rented (same with my other brother.)

There was a very conscientious guy who took it upon himself to tally up what everyone owed the best man based on what they took part in.  I was really thankful for that - not only for saving all of us the headache, but also for doing it in a really fair way.

[I'm a red panda]

You know, we've looked at this backwards and forwards and inside out and so far we haven't been able to figure out why this bothers the OP.

The only thing I can think of is in the past, everyone paid the same amount regardless of how long they stayed.  So this is costing OP a teensy tiny bit more.

If OP was one of the ones staying the shorter amount this "hotel fee" style billing would probably be brilliant.

[Kris]

When I read a post like this, my immediate reaction is this:

One of the things I like best about living below my means is that it allows me to be less obsessive about money, so that a little thing like this would never cause me one moment of hesitation or frustration.

Do you have money, or does money "have" you? One thing I hated about not having very much money when I was much younger was I always felt like money "had" me. When money is tight, you think about it constantly. It takes up tons of your time and emotional energy, and can easily affect your well-being.

My main money goal was always to have enough of it that I could stop worrying. Which now I do.

Which means I don't stress over stupid, petty crap like this.

OP: Yes, you are being bitchy. Let it go. Life is too short. And friends are more important than $36 damn dollars. You are letting money get in the way of your well-being. Stop.

[GuitarStv]

Have any of you come accross this or have any thoughts?

Bill's proposal is totally reasonable.

+1

It seems to be pretty fair and is how I would have divided things.

[charis]

You know, we've looked at this backwards and forwards and inside out and so far we haven't been able to figure out why this bothers the OP.

The only thing I can think of is in the past, everyone paid the same amount regardless of how long they stayed.  So this is costing OP a teensy tiny bit more.

If OP was one of the ones staying the shorter amount this "hotel fee" style billing would probably be brilliant.

This is what I've also gathered from the post .   Because there is a minimum number of nights that must be booked, anyone who is staying less than the required nights is getting the benefit of the booking without having to share the full cost of the booking.  So those staying the extra nights are, essentially, subsidizing the shorter-stay people, who end up paying less per night that they stay (I think?) and get the benefit of a booking (more nights usually means lower cost per night) in which they couldn't otherwise partake. 

I still think the calculation is reasonable, but the OP seems to feel that Bill was being deceptive when he booked a group event for which he would not have to share the all the costs involved.

[PoutineLover]

On the last group vacation I went on, that's how we split it. Our flights were arriving on different days, but it didn't make sense to book a different place for the 2 nights we'd be 3 or 5 instead of 8 for the rest of the vacation. This way is pretty fair and in the end, the cost difference is so small it isn't worth complaining about and making the vacation uncomfortable. If it bothers you, take charge next time,or request that arrangements be cleared by the group before making them final.

[Megma]

When I read a post like this, my immediate reaction is this:

One of the things I like best about living below my means is that it allows me to be less obsessive about money, so that a little thing like this would never cause me one moment of hesitation or frustration.

Do you have money, or does money "have" you? One thing I hated about not having very much money when I was much younger was I always felt like money "had" me. When money is tight, you think about it constantly. It takes up tons of your time and emotional energy, and can easily affect your well-being.

My main money goal was always to have enough of it that I could stop worrying. Which now I do.

Which means I don't stress over stupid, petty crap like this.

OP: Yes, you are being bitchy. Let it go. Life is too short. And friends are more important than $36 damn dollars. You are letting money get in the way of your well-being. Stop.

+1

Love the viewpoint on money and stress Kris, very well articulated. I'd send it my spendy mom but she wouldn't get it.  😀

[Kris]

When I read a post like this, my immediate reaction is this:

One of the things I like best about living below my means is that it allows me to be less obsessive about money, so that a little thing like this would never cause me one moment of hesitation or frustration.

Do you have money, or does money "have" you? One thing I hated about not having very much money when I was much younger was I always felt like money "had" me. When money is tight, you think about it constantly. It takes up tons of your time and emotional energy, and can easily affect your well-being.

My main money goal was always to have enough of it that I could stop worrying. Which now I do.

Which means I don't stress over stupid, petty crap like this.

OP: Yes, you are being bitchy. Let it go. Life is too short. And friends are more important than $36 damn dollars. You are letting money get in the way of your well-being. Stop.

+1

Love the viewpoint on money and stress Kris, very well articulated. I'd send it my spendy mom but she wouldn't get it.  😀

I think a lot of people don't get it. And it's a very persistent thread of MMM's philosophy re the paradox of hedonic adaptation, though people seem to sort of overlook it.

[dycker1978]

This tread is awesome!!  It is on a lower expenses ERE forum complaining about spending an extra $36.00 for a week of spendy pant luxury ski trip that cost almost $500 for a week anyways, plus food, drink and what ever else.  There is so much fail here, and they are worried about $36.  LMAO

[Letj]

Wow, you have spent a lot of heartbeats steaming over this.

You are being amazingly petty.

Someone has taken the initiative and booked a place, and will be lucky if someone doesn't stiff him.

Have a beer, smoke a bowl, or whatever calms you down.

If you don't like it, volunteer to book the accommodations next year.

Absolutely agree with you. I would find such a person unbearable; squabbling over something so petty and for such little dollars and risking upsetting people and ruining a nice trip is just ridiculous and low class.  I am glad that the friends I hang out with are reasonable people. I think Bill is pretty upstanding and certainly found a reasonable way to split the cost. If the OP doesn't want to stay 7 days because of a small additional cost then they shouldn't go or stay fewer days.