Wow now. Help me understand. Don't assume preconceived notions about what you think are my preconceived notions. What are the advantages of marriage with a prenup for you?
My apologies; I was tired and didn't feel like explaining it but certainly can. Fair warning: I'm long winded and want to give a full picture.
I'm almost 30 and my fiancee is almost 27. I have a STEM degree because I am good at math and science; I had to finance it myself and came out of college with a lot of debt (over $40K), but paid it off in a couple of years by saving about 70% of my pay. She got a degree in a liberal arts field (paid for by her parents) because she enjoyed the subject but then had very few job prospects coming out of school.
She recently got a Master's degree and got a little bit in loans for it (I paid most of the other bills); she still will be making about half of what I make with her new job. I've recently started socking away about $4K/month and she will soon be saving about 1/3 of that (prior to this I was putting away about $2,500-$3K/month and she was putting away about $500/mo).
I'm not overly passionate about my job and would like to FIRE ASAP (or at least get a job in something else but I would take a big pay cut); she is about to start working in her field and is very excited about it so likely wouldn't retire for awhile. I've saved a decent nest egg so far (about $150K if you include home equity; about $120K without home equity). Had I been smarter about using pre-tax money, my NW would be $175-$200K without home equity. If I continue with my path, I could feel comfortable leaving my job in the next couple of years, or even FIRE around my 34th birthday (liquid NW would be about $300-350K, enough to pay my part of the bills). Her nest egg is much smaller (NW about $10K) and won't grow nearly as quickly (in 4 years NW would be maybe $75-100K if she buckles down).
If we have kids, we wouldn't for at least the next 5 years. If that were the case, I would be willing to cancel the pre-nup and be a SAHD; she has said that she doesn't want to be a SAHM but is fine with me being a SAHD. If I continued working instead of FIRE and we got to a combined NW of over $600K, I would also be willing to cancel it and then FIRE. Honestly, I could see myself working some other job and helping her reach FIRE more quickly. I just read about the "oxygen mask" approach to raising kids in Jeff Yeager's book "The Cheapskate Next Door". I guess that is my FIRE method.
Now, the state I live in has punitive divorce laws for the breadwinner; I know because I work with other breadwinners who got taken to the cleaners, even when the other person had a career of her own and child support wasn't involved (I work with mostly guys, so every story was a guy breadwinner, but imagine a female breadwinner would have the same issue). I actually told my fiancee this (early in the relationship, way before we got engaged) and that I didn't want to get married, unless I was going to have kids, because of the financial risk and how that would destroy my goals. She still wanted to eventually get married and suggested a pre-nup so that I would still consider it.
She now has been reading the MMM blog for a month or so and is actually getting excited about FI, which is why I have considered canceling a pre-nup. Prior to this, my fear was that there is a possibility to get divorced before I quit my job and I would be stuck handing over a huge percentage of my NW and/or paying alimony. Or, it could be right after I leave my job, and a judge could make me pay alimony based on what I "could" make, not being understanding of the concept of FIRE. Either way, I would be stuck working a job I'm not crazy about for much longer than I originally planned, all because I didn't take precautions. Maybe it'd only be 3 more years, but that's 3 more years I'll never get back.
Is it a lack of trust? Perhaps somewhat. She is actually quite trustworthy (more than almost anyone else I know), but I also know that going through a divorce can bring out the worst in people. She would be the one holding the cards and I would be at her mercy; I don't feel comfortable with that. She can understand the logic of a pre-nup and agrees that, since I have set myself up for FIRE and she hasn't as quickly, it wouldn't be fair for her to take my money. However, since most divorces end with money split 50/50, even if she had a choice, it would be easy for her to self-justify taking her half when it comes down to it. This isn't because she's selfish so much as it's because she's human.
It's obvious that a lot of people in this thread don't see money as "mine" and "yours" but rather "ours". I understand that; it's how most people see it. I don't, at least right now.
The guys I know who got divorced never imagined it would happen and usually get some sort of "well, caveat emptor, buddy" as consolation after huge legal bills and losing the battle anyway; I'm taking that advice to heart. I guess that's why I get a little irritated because a lot of people IRL have been saying, "Why are you even getting married if you want a pre-nup?", then when they hear the story of someone losing A LOT from a divorce, brush it off with, "It is what it is."
She has it pretty good now; we split bills but it's by how much we make, so I pay most of them (we've lived together for 4.5 years and it's always been that way). We are moving into a smaller house soon and she is going to pay half the bills then since she will be making good money. My savings rate may even be higher ($4500/mo or so) when we do that, with hers being $1500/mo. I am helping her with her finances so the FI goal can become "our" goal and I can feel more comfortable without a pre-nup, eventually. I wouldn't mind waiting a few more years before marriage to reach that point, but she doesn't want to wait; I can understand that being officially married is more important to her than it is to me, and she can understand that I am nervous about losing my money, no matter how low I think the odds are. So we compromise.
She actually is relatively frugal and is getting better about it; she also isn't a self-entitled type. Quite honestly I could see myself spending the rest of my life with her, but am aware that probably 100% of men who get divorced likely thought the same thing when they got married. I said in a previous post that I see us as more likely than 90% of couples out there to make it (hell, maybe even more), but that I also know my opinion is biased :).