Author Topic: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?  (Read 1708 times)

uneven_cyclist

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Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« on: August 05, 2024, 11:09:52 PM »
Hello All,

My family and I recently had to use our credit cards in a sort of an emergency fund capacity to cover roughly $10k in expenses that came up unexpectedly.

I'm considering a few options for repaying this:

1) Set card payments to minimum and just pay them down over time...I'm not entirely sure how long it would take...6 months?  12 months?
2) Sell shares from our taxable accounts and pay them off immediately.
3) Open a couple of new credit cards with 0% APR intro rates and then transfer the balance and pay down over time -- these typically have 3% interest to transfer balance from what I've seen initially, so it would not be completely free.

Do folks have any thoughts?  Should I just sell shares and get it done? 

I've never been in a similar position and I hate to sell shares, but it kind of feels like it might be the most sensible option?

Thanks!


Alternatepriorities

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2024, 11:33:03 PM »
Emotional approach for myself, I'd sell the shares and pay of the CC without paying interest on the debt. It's a point of personal pride that I've never paid the CC companies and penny in interest in 25 years of having cards...

The math approach: Will the taxes you pay on the capital gains exceed the interest on the debt? I doubt it unless these are shares you've owned a long time/have huge gains on, but check the numbers... Also check the numbers for how long it will take to pay off making minimum payments... I think you will be shocked at how long minimum payments take to pay off the debt. If you are going to pay enough in capital gains to make it worth avoiding, the balance transfer plan is probably worth the effort.... 

seattlecyclone

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2024, 12:38:40 AM »
Typical credit cards rates are in the ballpark of 15-20%. Do not pay that if you have any other reasonable alternative. Thankfully your Options 2 and 3 are both reasonable alternatives. I'd personally lean toward trying a 0% balance transfer, but selling shares is basically just as good.

former player

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2024, 02:02:26 AM »
What about a bank loan or agreed bank overdraft?  Both are likely to be cheaper than credit card rates.

I'm a bit more concerned about how these expenses came about and why you didn't have an emergency fund or sinking funds on hand to cover them.  And I'm even more concerned that you are proposing to use capital (your taxable investments) to cover what look like expenses that should be paid from income: that would be a very bad habit to get into.  So I hope you can put in place enough of a savings buffer that this isn't going to happen again.


sonofsven

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2024, 05:26:20 AM »
Edward Jones recently had a card on offer with a 0% BT fee for the first sixty days, I'd check on that.
I don't like to ever give the banks money.
Doctor Of Credit is a trusted source for cc offers.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2024, 05:32:11 AM by sonofsven »

nereo

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2024, 05:59:09 AM »

My family and I recently had to use our credit cards in a sort of an emergency fund capacity to cover roughly $10k in expenses that came up unexpectedly.


Ok, this is your classic MMM “hair on fire” type of emergency debt. Kill it, now. 

If you have a 0% transfer option with no fees, and you have a large enough surplus of cash to repay the transfer within the slotted time (usually 6-12 months, occasionally 18) then you can hedge your bets, hope another emergency doesn’t come up in the meantime and go that route

Buuuuut… you got into this situation with no clear plan on how to pay for a sudden $10k expense, which isn’t all that huge in the grand scheme of things. That is a big red flag. You have investments, and my advice in your case is to not try to play the cc game and instead just use that to pay off the cc pronto.  THEN sit down and map out a plan where another $10k “sort of an emergency” won’t put you into this exact same situation. For most that’s an ER fund, likely coupled with a higher monthly cash flow.

yachi

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2024, 06:58:05 PM »
1. No, it's on the order of 7 years, and you'll end up paying something like $20K for your $10K emergency.  All credit cards are required to list the Minimum Payment Warning on every statement.  Look at your statement from last month to see what yours would be.*

2. Look at last month's credit card statement to see your APR.  That's how much interest they charge you each year.  It's almost always way higher than you can make in the stock market.  Mine's 25.49%.  I'd need a Warren Freaking Buffett level return on your stocks just to tread water.  I've had returns like that before, but it's not guaranteed, and some years, I might have negative returns.  Again, Just to break even on your credit card interest you'd need market beating returns.

3.  This option is just kicking the can down the road while paying a 3% fee.  (it's not interest, it gets charged the moment you transfer it over).  If you do this, pay particular attention to the date you pay off the new card because some will hit you with retroactive interest if you don't pay off the entire balance by the end date.

By the way, once you carry a balance on the credit card, you no longer have a grace period on new charges.  That means a purchase made on the 1's of the billing cycle gets a month's worth of interest tacked onto it by the time you see it on your bill.  So don't put any more charges on that credit card.

Here's a couple links:  Understanding your Statement
How Credit Card Grace Periods Work

*You're certainly allowed to make higher-than-minimum payments on your credit card, but you're still fighting the APR of the card with your investments.


By the way, I realize this is "sort of an emergency", but:

1.  Hospitals allow payment plans when paying all at once will be difficult
2.  Cars can be purchased with car loans
3.  Lots of home contractors work with lenders to finance more expensive house repairs

uneven_cyclist

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2024, 11:41:43 PM »
Thanks all for your replies.

Good to know as well about the Edward Jones card with the 0% balance transfer fee...it looks like that would be a great option, but I think it would require opening a brokerage acct. with them, which is a bit more effort than I want to put in at the moment.  Great to know about as an option though, and I'll use Doctor of Credit to track down similar options in the future if a similar need arises.

Bearing in mind everyone else's responses, I think I'm just going to sell shares and pay off the debt ASAP. 

From there, I can move on to using my time/energy in the coming weeks to verify that cash flow is configured properly after hitting these bumps in the road.

I also share commenters' concerns about either (A) not having had things configured properly in terms of cash flow/emergency fund systems/routines; or (B) destabilizing those systems/routines by quickly racking up debt and then selling shares from our retirement fund to get out of the bind...and especially concerns about making this a habit.

I'll take a closer look at all of it, and we do now have a really high interest rate savings acct. so it would be fairly easy to boost our cash holdings without feeling *too* concerned about cash drag.  If something similar were to happen again, we could cover the cost without going into debt.

On the other hand, this is the first time we've ever used our cards this way, after about 10 years of being on this path, and so from that perspective, it does feel like a relatively isolated incident.  Although...who knows what the future might bring.

The way I am thinking about it, if we were to leave the $10k invested rather than sitting in a high interest savings acct. and then use our cards to cover unforeseen major expenses like what just happened, then it would actually not be the worst strategy.  Even though it sucks in a moment like this to actually go through the process of selling shares.

Thank you everyone for your replies and for helping me to decide on a course, I am grateful to you for your time.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 12:35:05 AM by uneven_cyclist »

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2024, 08:38:47 AM »
The approach you've landed on seems fine. Reading your most recent update, I'm not clear on what happened to make you use your credit cards this time around, and how you plan to prevent that moving forward. You noted it's the only time it's ever happened, and you think it's an isolated incident (great on both fronts), but what in your financial system specifically didn't work this time around? (E.g. expected income that didn't come through, normally would have sold stock but market was down, cash reserves not large enough, etc)

 No need to explain it here if it's clear in your mind, but ensuring that is buttoned up & whatever failed in the system this time is adequately resolved. Because a $10k emergency is definitely something you can plan for & need to have a clear approach that will work in lots of scenarios (market down, etc).

Laura33

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2024, 08:46:34 AM »
On the other hand, this is the first time we've ever used our cards this way, after about 10 years of being on this path, and so from that perspective, it does feel like a relatively isolated incident.  Although...who knows what the future might bring.

The way I am thinking about it, if we were to leave the $10k invested rather than sitting in a high interest savings acct. and then use our cards to cover unforeseen major expenses like what just happened, then it would actually not be the worst strategy.  Even though it sucks in a moment like this to actually go through the process of selling shares.

There are people who use CCs as an EF, as you suggest.  But two caveats:

1.  You need it to be an intentional strategy, where you immediately execute the stock sale without debating your options.  Here, you've been on the MMM path for 10 years, and you don't have either $10K immediately available for an emergency or a clear pre-existing plan to get those funds from some other source (as demonstrated by the fact that you felt the need to ask the question in the first place).  That concerns me.  You do want to have a plan so you don't have to think about it mid-crisis, which is when you're most likely to make the wrong choice.  (Not to mention who wants to waste brain cells on $$ when you're in an actual life crisis?)

2.  The "CC as EF" strategy can work out well long-term, because as you note, market returns tend to be significantly higher than what you'd make in a HYSA.  But there are two downsides:

(a)  Capital gains taxes will mean you have to cash in extra investments just to pay the tax.  That reduces your overall return from keeping the money in the market.  Sure, you can withdraw your Roth contributions, but that forfeits decades of tax-free growth and will cost you way more in the long-term.

(b)  When your plan is to sell shares, you risk selling into a down market, which means it could end up costing you more than if you'd just kept the $ in a HYSA.  And I worry that, generally speaking, there is likely to be a correlation between major emergencies and down markets -- the economic forces that send the market down (like, say, a significant drop in the employment rate) can often be the same forces that create emergencies (like, say, losing a job).  Most people have some degree of EF in HYSA to at least mitigate that risk. 

If you're comfortable relying on shares instead of HYSA, that's perfectly fine; certainly, the long-term market numbers suggest that you may well come out ahead.  Just go into it with full awareness of the potential downsides, and make sure you're comfortable with those risks.  (Now is a good time to do that, since you're just coming out of a major hit, so you won't be as subject to it-won't-happen-to-me-itis).

sonofsven

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2024, 12:00:48 PM »
Sounds like you came up with a strategy, but if anyone else is interested, this is a link to the Doctor Of Credit list of 0% cards (from 12/23, so there could be some changes).
According to the data points in the comments, it looks like you don't need to open an EJ brokerage account to get approved for their CC.

https://www.doctorofcredit.com/list-of-0-apr-credit-card-offers/

charis

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Re: Sell Shares to Pay CC Debt vs. Pay Over Time?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2024, 12:25:25 PM »
I have to say that I wouldn't want to sell shares either.  The minor inconvenience of building up a relatively small EF fund that would have prevented you from being in this situation at all seems like a no brainer.   10-15k in a HYSA isn't going to drag your portfolio enough to make it worth investing.