School trips abroad for middle/high schoolers

[FiguringItOut]

What are your thoughts on paying $4-$5K for a kid to go on 7-10 day school trip? 

I can't figure out how I feel about it.  I have a 7th grader who brought a note home that their class will be going on a 10-day trip to Spain next year (Spring).  No price mentioned yet, but they will be sending additional info soon. 

My 9th grader has Mediterranean trip scheduled for senior year in high school.  The school's trip to Germany this past April was around $4.5K.  So I am expecting Mediterranean trip be somewhere in that ballpark.  No idea yet on the Spain trip for 8th grader.

I am torn to be honest.  The older one was on a fence about Mediterranean trip since she understands that it's expensive, but she also wants the school trip experience. And now she says that if younger one will get to go to Spain, she definitely wants her trip to Mediterranean.  The younger one is lobbying very hard for the Spain trip.  And to be honest, I think it would be a good experience for her because of her personality/nature and that we both find it very hard to travel together (this is a very long story, but suffice to say that we almost never take her on trips because she doesn't want to).  Plus this also sets precedence for younger one's high school trip is there's going to be one - it would depend on which high school she will end up going to.

In addition, I would have to get my ex to agree to pay half of these trips, which right now I'm not sure how realistic that would be.  Paying for these trips all by myself would be very difficult, but I can fairly easily pull off 50% of the cost.

So just want to hear opinions/experiences from others.

[FLBiker]

Posting to follow.  Our daughter is just 2.  I had no idea trips like this even existed before high school.

Personally, I'm pretty pro-international exposure.  I didn't do anything in high school, but I did a year abroad in college and lived overseas for 6 years in my 20s.  And I directly attribute some international trips as a kid to my willingness to do that as an adult.

[Mgmny]

Do you think your children are college-bound? Can you make your children pay for 50% if your ex can't (or even if your ex can, maybe you can each put in 25% and child 50%?)

[zhelud]

When I was in HS, I got to go on exchange trip for 3 weeks to Germany- each person in our class lived with a family for the whole time.  In turn, our families hosted the German students in our homes for 3 weeks. It was a great experience and I would recommend it to anyone.  It really broadened the horizons of everyone in our group.  But as I recall we only had to pay for our plane fares, and whatever other incidentals popped up (and of course the cost of feeding our own exchange students at home.) 

I'm generally in favor of students travelling abroad, but you might want to look into whether there are cheaper options- $4500 for a week long trip seems rather gold plated, considering that they are probably going to put the kids 4 to a room, etc.  Or is this the standard price these days?  (I know airfares are higher than they were back in the day...)

[joonifloofeefloo]

I'm pro international exposure, but against:

*spending that kinda dough on that kinda trip
*the type of trips most schools organize
*schools charging for activities that not everyone would be able to afford

Personally, I'd put the money aside for better opportunities, e.g., international work experience, the family volunteering for some months on a development project, maybe Outward Bound for your kid that is more insular and doesn't travel with with you, etc. Something with much more oomph and growth inherent.

[Cwadda]

How about telling your kids they can attend if they have skin in the game? These trips are bound to have fundraisers. I went on a Washington DC trip in high school. It was a great trip. I fundraised $400 of the $1200 bill, and asked my relatives for $ gifts towards the trip rather than a bunch of Christmas gifts I didn't need. I think I enjoy travel (and other things) more when I work hard to save up for it.

[Fishindude]

The money wouldn't bother me if in good financial shape, but sending my young kids that far from home unaccompanied by myself sure would.

[Bucksandreds]

The money wouldn't bother me if in good financial shape, but sending my young kids that far from home unaccompanied by myself sure would.

I went on a Paris school trip at 16 and that was still borderline too young. I will pay for study abroad for each child. (Did it twice myself) it will be as adults though. I'll take my kids to Europe in their teens when I can watch them.

[FiguringItOut]

I had no idea trips like this even existed before high school.

I was a bit surprised too when I got the note from school.

Do you think your children are college-bound? Can you make your children pay for 50% if your ex can't (or even if your ex can, maybe you can each put in 25% and child 50%?)

They are definitely college bound.  Actually more like Ivy League bound due to their academics. 

As for having them to pay for half or quarter of the trip, how in the world would they do that.  Especially an 8th grader who gets $35 allowance per month and has only about $600 in savings.  I honestly don't think this is realistic.  Maybe making her use her own money for incidental spending while on the trip, but that's about it.  She could probably come up with about $1,000, but not more than that.

I'm generally in favor of students travelling abroad, but you might want to look into whether there are cheaper options- $4500 for a week long trip seems rather gold plated, considering that they are probably going to put the kids 4 to a room, etc.  Or is this the standard price these days?  (I know airfares are higher than they were back in the day...)

It really is a standard price these days.

I'm sure that these costs have to a lot to do with additional insurances that school trips would require.  And this being a school trip with her friends is really the main selling point here and probably the only reason she wants to go.  She's not a traveler at heart. 

Personally, I'd put the money aside for better opportunities, e.g., international work experience, the family volunteering for some months on a development project, maybe Outward Bound for your kid that is more insular and doesn't travel with with you, etc. Something with much more oomph and growth inherent.

Honestly, I don't see this happening.  I mean it's possible that at some point in adulthood there will be some international work experience, but but volunteering/development projects are not likely to be happening.  Just not our cup of tea.

How about telling your kids they can attend if they have skin in the game? These trips are bound to have fundraisers. I went on a Washington DC trip in high school. It was a great trip. I fundraised $400 of the $1200 bill, and asked my relatives for $ gifts towards the trip rather than a bunch of Christmas gifts I didn't need. I think I enjoy travel (and other things) more when I work hard to save up for it.

Absolutely, been thinking about this too.  Between her savings right now and possible birthday/holiday gifts, she can probably come up with about $1,000.

The money wouldn't bother me if in good financial shape, but sending my young kids that far from home unaccompanied by myself sure would.

I understand.  I have different perspective on this.  I'm not overly protective by nature.  And I grew up basically being chained to my parents/grandparents until I escaped to college. Try being a 17-year-old with 8pm curfew.   I give my kids a lot of freedoms I never had with set rules and requirements of course.  They always thank me too for trusting them and letting them be somewhat independent.  They see examples of what I grew up with with some of their friends and they are horrified; as am I, since I know what it's like first hand.

[FiguringItOut]

The money wouldn't bother me if in good financial shape, but sending my young kids that far from home unaccompanied by myself sure would.

I went on a Paris school trip at 16 and that was still borderline too young. I will pay for study abroad for each child. (Did it twice myself) it will be as adults though. I'll take my kids to Europe in their teens when I can watch them.

Surprisingly, the age of a kid doesn't bother me nearly as much.  I answered to that in the above comment. 
This is more of a financial decision I suppose. 

[joonifloofeefloo]

Financially speaking, you're just not getting sufficient bang for your buck, in my perspective. (Ugh, schools are so wasteful in my opinion, a terrible example to kids re: financial wisdom.)

[PoutineLover]

I went on an exchange to France for 3 weeks when I was 15, and I'm so glad I got the chance. However, my trip wasn't that expensive, since we basically only had to pay for the flight and spending money (the family covered the accommodations and food, and we returned the favour when our exchange students came to vist). For 4-5k, I'm not so sure. I skipped the trip to China in my senior year because it was just too expensive and I was about to go to university away from home. It's perfectly reasonable to allow the older one to go, and send the younger when she is older, if both is too expensive. I think travel is very important and valuable, and if you can swing the cost (or if the teens can contribute even better) I don't think it would be a waste of money. But if you aren't in the financial position to pay for it, it's not something they absolutely need at those ages.

[lentil]

FWIW, I went on two international school trips in high school. One around age 14, the other around age 16. I got so much more out of the second trip than the first. Yeah, the first was fun, but at 14, I was like a tour group participant -- more passive observer than active traveler, mostly just interacting with my classmates. By age 16, I was able to participate in the planning, be more independent while we were abroad, engage more with the places/people we visited, and grow more.

I don't actually think either was particularly amazing in terms of expanding my understanding of the world -- any group trip means spending most of your time with the group, which was basically a bunch of ridiculously privileged teenagers. But the second trip in particular did a huge amount for my personal growth, especially my confidence and comfort traveling (or in new situations generally). I credit it with making me significantly more adventurous (and smart) in my subsequent travels & study abroad experiences, and still remember both trips vividly and pleasantly. Of course, I think it depends a lot on the trip organizers, and the individual kids.

If the school is offering trips for 7th and 9th graders, what are they offering for 12th graders? At an older age, the kids can contribute more financially (I'd assume), and also stand to gain a lot more from the experience overall. Gives you more time to save too!

[Mgmny]

Do you think your children are college-bound? Can you make your children pay for 50% if your ex can't (or even if your ex can, maybe you can each put in 25% and child 50%?)

They are definitely college bound.  Actually more like Ivy League bound due to their academics. 

As for having them to pay for half or quarter of the trip, how in the world would they do that.  Especially an 8th grader who gets $35 allowance per month and has only about $600 in savings.  I honestly don't think this is realistic.  Maybe making her use her own money for incidental spending while on the trip, but that's about it.  She could probably come up with about $1,000, but not more than that.

One of them I thought was in high school ("My 9th grader has Mediterranean trip scheduled for senior year in high school"), he/she could easily get a job and make 25-50% of the cost up. For your eighth grader, you could make her do chores/tasks to "earn" her way to the trip.

That being said though, because you said they are college-bound, I would probably not pay for this trip. The value for a trip at that age will be wasted. Your 8th grader won't appreciate Spain as much as she could when she has a broader cultural understanding of the world, and your other child going to the Mediterranean will be the same way. Let them travel in college when it is more meaningful and exploratory.

[Cwadda]

They are definitely college bound.  Actually more like Ivy League bound due to their academics. 

Maybe offer to pay for their trip if they get a scholarship to the college they attend?

[FiguringItOut]

Do you think your children are college-bound? Can you make your children pay for 50% if your ex can't (or even if your ex can, maybe you can each put in 25% and child 50%?)

They are definitely college bound.  Actually more like Ivy League bound due to their academics. 

As for having them to pay for half or quarter of the trip, how in the world would they do that.  Especially an 8th grader who gets $35 allowance per month and has only about $600 in savings.  I honestly don't think this is realistic.  Maybe making her use her own money for incidental spending while on the trip, but that's about it.  She could probably come up with about $1,000, but not more than that.

One of them I thought was in high school ("My 9th grader has Mediterranean trip scheduled for senior year in high school"), he/she could easily get a job and make 25-50% of the cost up. For your eighth grader, you could make her do chores/tasks to "earn" her way to the trip.

That being said though, because you said they are college-bound, I would probably not pay for this trip. The value for a trip at that age will be wasted. Your 8th grader won't appreciate Spain as much as she could when she has a broader cultural understanding of the world, and your other child going to the Mediterranean will be the same way. Let them travel in college when it is more meaningful and exploratory.

Thank you.

Yes, one is in 9th grade, so her potential trip is 3 years away.  The 7th-grader's trip is next next spring, potentially, so I was talking about her ability to possibly save up and contribute since it's a much shorter time frame.

[FiguringItOut]

FWIW, I went on two international school trips in high school. One around age 14, the other around age 16. I got so much more out of the second trip than the first. Yeah, the first was fun, but at 14, I was like a tour group participant -- more passive observer than active traveler, mostly just interacting with my classmates. By age 16, I was able to participate in the planning, be more independent while we were abroad, engage more with the places/people we visited, and grow more.

I don't actually think either was particularly amazing in terms of expanding my understanding of the world -- any group trip means spending most of your time with the group, which was basically a bunch of ridiculously privileged teenagers. But the second trip in particular did a huge amount for my personal growth, especially my confidence and comfort traveling (or in new situations generally). I credit it with making me significantly more adventurous (and smart) in my subsequent travels & study abroad experiences, and still remember both trips vividly and pleasantly. Of course, I think it depends a lot on the trip organizers, and the individual kids.

Very valid and interesting points.  Thank you.

[mbl]

I would give this some deep consideration.
Are you feeling that your kids's might miss out if they don't go on a school trip to Europe?
Might that money be better invested for their college educations? 

It's not necessary to go on a school trip for a kid to be successful or broadened.  They'd probably get as much enrichment as they would going to many good locations here at home(national parks, New Orleans, NYC, Boston, et al).  Enrichment might also be found in volunteering and other such activities.

That being said, the school trips are canned(not the exchange student format) and structured and are organized from a scholastic POV.  Going on your own allows for a lot of exploration of the everyday life, as does foreign exchange.

Given the current climate in Europe I would hesitate to be in a group visiting the most popular locations.

I'd take that money and go as a family to Europe.  Do it off season( i.e,during the kids February break and before Lent is a great time)
Another suggestion, let them go on their own dime when they're older.  JMHO

[FiguringItOut]

Financially speaking, you're just not getting sufficient bang for your buck, in my perspective. (Ugh, schools are so wasteful in my opinion, a terrible example to kids re: financial wisdom.)

I agree.  But I am weighing the cost vs experience here.

Last summer I took my older one on a trip to Germany and France for 11 days and it cost me a big fat ZERO dollars out of pocket.  I paid for the entire trip (flights, lodging, food, entertainment, trains, everything) with reward points/miles and cash rewards earned. 
We are going on a 7 day cruise (3 people) end of August that will be 100% paid with the remaining cash rewards I have left over.  Plus I'll have some cash rewards left over to pay for my trip to Netherlands/Belgium this August (lodging, food).  I only ended up paying for my plane tickets out of pocket because I didn't find good reward tickets available, but I have plenty or miles/points left for couple more international trips. 

[mbl]

Second paragraph is your best bet.

[FiguringItOut]

I would give this some deep consideration.
Are you feeling that your kids's might miss out if they don't go on a school trip to Europe? Yes, do feel that.
Might that money be better invested for their college educations?  Possibly, but not necessarily. 

It's not necessary to go on a school trip for a kid to be successful or broadened.  They'd probably get as much enrichment as they would going to many good locations here at home(national parks, New Orleans, NYC, Boston, et al).  Enrichment might also be found in volunteering and other such activities.

That being said, the school trips are canned(not the exchange student format) and structured and are organized from a scholastic POV.  Going on your own allows for a lot of exploration of the everyday life, as does foreign exchange.

Given the current climate in Europe I would hesitate to be in a group visiting the most popular locations.

I'd take that money and go as a family to Europe.  Do it off season( i.e,during the kids February break and before Lent is a great time)
Another suggestion, let them go on their own dime when they're older.  JMHO

My younger one is not a 'traveler'.  She absolutely hates local trips.  Memorial day weekend their dad took them to Wash. DC.  The older one was so happy, learned a lot, enjoyed all sights/trips. Younger one was miserable the entire time, didn't look at anything, didn't enjoy anything, etc.  I don't see this changing any time soon either with her due to her personality. She refuses to go on any national park trips.  She was basically forced to go to D.C. since their dad planned it I and I told her that I was going away for a weekend myself so she has nobody to stay with.  That's why I think school trip with friends and organized by school, i.e. structured with required school learning, may be a good idea.

As for current climate, yes, that is definitely to be considered.  My older one and I were in Paris last summer on Bastille Day watching fireworks over Eiffel Tower when the attack in Nice took place.  Paris wasn't affected, but we had to deal with distraught family members back home who were trying make sure we were ok.

[FiguringItOut]

Sending child to Europe with school for 11 days @ $2,999. There will be a Japan trip at school but the price has not been made yet.

From all my friends who have sent their kids has said it was a fantastic experience for them.

And the one girl I spoke to has been twice and much enjoyed the experience.

Thank you.  How old is your child?

[charis]

I went to France at 15 or 16 and it was a terrific time that I remember fondly, but it wasn't hugely transformative, though it did start my interest in traveling and involved some romance (very chaste though).   

In your shoes, I would probably allow each child one school trip (whether it's in middle or high school) and require them to fund some portion of the trip (babysitting, fundraising or what have you). 

[FiguringItOut]

I went to France at 15 or 16 and it was a terrific time that I remember fondly, but it wasn't hugely transformative, though it did start my interest in traveling and involved some romance (very chaste though).   

In your shoes, I would probably allow each child one school trip (whether it's in middle or high school) and require them to fund some portion of the trip (babysitting, fundraising or what have you).

Thank you

[joonifloofeefloo]

I agree.  But I am weighing the cost vs experience here.

I understand. That's precisely what I'm trying to speak to here. I think the "experience" the school trips offer is too limited to be worth $5k. Like others said, the trips can be a lot of fun for some kids (and horrible for others), but I don't pay $5k for fun when I can have fun for $20 :)     The school trips are generally with each other, touring common sights.

I highly value experiences, broadening, etc, and a LOT more of those can be achieved on far less, through a different travel plan OR through nontravel experiences. I've travelled extensively in the non-school ways, starting age 16 on my own, and see high value in those, with almost zero cost.

re: Younger one, if she has lots of "stuff" going on (anxiety, rigidity, argumentativeness, anything along those lines), I'd spend the money on an effective therapy (or, like I mentioned earlier, a therapeutic travel program like Outward Bound), not a "fun trip with friends."

[mozar]

I think it would be good for both kids to pay for the school trips as much as they can themselves, and be the ones who asks your ex for money. These are very expensive trips and even if the younger one doesn't care for travel she will learn how to get money for the things she wants, which is just as good as a lesson.

The 7th grader has all summer to work mowing lawns, making websites, walking dogs whatever. Come up with a plan with her and do whatever you can to make that plan work. She will be full of pride when she manages to pay for a chunk of it herself. If she has worked super hard and your ex decides at the last minute to not help, then you should pony up the rest of the money.

[bigalsmith101]

The one thing that I regret not doing in high school, was being an exchange student. I WISH I had spent a year (or any significant length of time) in a foreign country. However, I was on three varsity sports teams at the school, was in the boy scouts, on a soccer team, and had a girl friend the second half of my senior year.

That being said, I don't think that a 7-10 day trip is worth $4-5k. That's overpriced. The children are subsidizing the costs of the teachers that go on the trip, and though completely valid and worthwhile for some people, it doesn't strike my fancy. I realized in high school that it was overpriced as well.

Do your children want to go on these trips because their friends are going? Or because they really want to see new places in the world? Or are they just caught up in the hype?

That being said. I can easily imagine myself, close to FIRE when my children will be in high school, and can imagine that I'd be willing to pay for these types of trips. Though I'd probably urge my children to travel for extended lengths of time to get the most value from the experience.

[Axecleaver]

Little Axe went to Madrid and Barcelona for 10 days with her school when she was 11. She lobbied every teacher, the headmistress, and her husband (who I knew well) to support her trip before she asked us. It was transformative for her and has led to a lifetime of travel goals for her. The best part was getting out to public places and having conversations with folks on the trip - an hour long conversation in spanish with a nice lady in one of the parks was very memorable for her.

Part of the price is probably because the school is asking parents to subsidize the cost of chaperones. So that 5k may be 3k for your kid and 2k to pay for teachers to go with them. Or they may have outsourced to a travel company who is providing a kickback to the school (this is apparently a thing now). I'd ask for details on the pricing as that does seem like a lot.

[honeybbq]

I did an exchange to Germany when I was 16 for 3 weeks. It's one of the most memorable experiences of my life (and I'm 40!). I think even well traveled and exposed kids need a chance to 'play adult' in a safe environment, learn responsibility, be exposed to other cultures, etc. My mom paid for my flight but I had to pay for all my food and spending money. I would love to be able to do this for my child.

[TrMama]

The money wouldn't bother me if in good financial shape, but sending my young kids that far from home unaccompanied by myself sure would.

Our school district has a similar schedule of an international trip in late middle school (grade 8) and another at the end of high school. DH and I have discussed that we're both very uncomfortable sending our middle school aged kids out of the country without us. Not because of the day to day supervision, but in the event of something unplanned happening, we just aren't confident in the teachers/chaperones ability to make the right decisions. Those large school groups just aren't very mobile and it's really hard for them to alter their plans. There was a local school group in Nice on the day of the attack and DH and I did not agree with the way the school responded. We were both very glad neither of our kids were with that group.

We plan to travel with our kids, and encourage exchanges, rather than sending them out with a large school group.

[FiguringItOut]

The money wouldn't bother me if in good financial shape, but sending my young kids that far from home unaccompanied by myself sure would.

Our school district has a similar schedule of an international trip in late middle school (grade 8) and another at the end of high school. DH and I have discussed that we're both very uncomfortable sending our middle school aged kids out of the country without us. Not because of the day to day supervision, but in the event of something unplanned happening, we just aren't confident in the teachers/chaperones ability to make the right decisions. Those large school groups just aren't very mobile and it's really hard for them to alter their plans. There was a local school group in Nice on the day of the attack and DH and I did not agree with the way the school responded. We were both very glad neither of our kids were with that group.

We plan to travel with our kids, and encourage exchanges, rather than sending them out with a large school group.

Can you please post on how the school responded to Nice attack?
(I and my older daughter were in Paris when it happened last July).

[Lepetitange3]

Can you plan a European trip yourself with both kids instead?  1) it will be a lot cheaper 2) if researched right, you will get a lot more experience bang for your buck and 3) you can easily hit Spain, the Med, and most of Western Europe in one go because of proximity.  Bonus points for having the children do some of the research themselves about places to visit and compile a list.  Then they have "skin" in the game too in the form of the time and effort it takes them to help you plan a trip.

My parents took all 7 of us (I'm the oldest of 7) across Europe when I was in high school and the others were in high school/middle school (we are all only 12-18 mos apart because my folks are crazy but I digress).  The fun had and experienced were incredible.  Even better, family bonding and stuff me and the sibs and parents still reference from this trip to this day.  E.g. Any poorly prepared restaurant food is forever compared to a fish soup at a restaurant in the south of France that was incredibly fishy and basically inedible.  One of my brothers was dared to consume a full bowl.  It made him so sick he threw up in the potted plant next to the table.  So now it's "How was xxxx restaurant last night?" "It's a fish soup kind of place"

[Noodle]

Assuming that you are OK with the general idea of the trip, my suggestion would be to figure out how much you can afford to/want to contribute, and put the kids in charge of coming up with the rest, including talking to their dad. Although the younger one is too young for a job, if she really wants it she can walk dogs, be a mom's helper (I babysat that young but I think people are getting away from young teens as sitters), etc. You could also offer to give money for the trip in lieu of birthday and holiday presents and suggest grandparents etc do the same. Even if you could afford to pay for the whole thing, I would suggest having them contribute as that is a lot of family resources going to a pretty short travel experience.

[FiguringItOut]

Can you plan a European trip yourself with both kids instead?  1) it will be a lot cheaper 2) if researched right, you will get a lot more experience bang for your buck and 3) you can easily hit Spain, the Med, and most of Western Europe in one go because of proximity.  Bonus points for having the children do some of the research themselves about places to visit and compile a list.  Then they have "skin" in the game too in the form of the time and effort it takes them to help you plan a trip.

Younger one won't go on any trip with me or any family member.  I am taking her on a cruise this summer, but that's different from a sightseeing type of trip.  She's basically going to be in the pool or on the beach the entire time.  It's a long story, but I don't see this situation changing any time soon. I posted more about it in the comments above.

I did take older one to Germany/France last summer.  She's also coming on a cruise this summer.  No trips planned yet for 2018. 

[PoutineLover]

From your comments it seems like the older one will actually appreciate it, but that it would be a total waste for the younger one. Why does she hate travel so much? Why does she want to go on this trip? I'd find that out before spending all that money.

[FiguringItOut]

Assuming that you are OK with the general idea of the trip, my suggestion would be to figure out how much you can afford to/want to contribute, and put the kids in charge of coming up with the rest, including talking to their dad. Although the younger one is too young for a job, if she really wants it she can walk dogs, be a mom's helper (I babysat that young but I think people are getting away from young teens as sitters), etc. You could also offer to give money for the trip in lieu of birthday and holiday presents and suggest grandparents etc do the same. Even if you could afford to pay for the whole thing, I would suggest having them contribute as that is a lot of family resources going to a pretty short travel experience.

Thank you.

I feel strange having kids talk to their dad about paying for things.  They don't fully understand how our divorce agreement works and they always come to me for all $$ needs/wants.  In reality, he's supposed to pay for half of all kid expenses not covered by child support.  And so far he has, so I'm not complaining.  But also, there weren't any unplanned large expenses so far.
The divorce is fairly recent, 2 years, and they didn't take it well in the beginning and the move was very hard on them.
But maybe they are old enough to get involved in these types of money decisions when he's involved.

[TrMama]

The money wouldn't bother me if in good financial shape, but sending my young kids that far from home unaccompanied by myself sure would.

Our school district has a similar schedule of an international trip in late middle school (grade 8) and another at the end of high school. DH and I have discussed that we're both very uncomfortable sending our middle school aged kids out of the country without us. Not because of the day to day supervision, but in the event of something unplanned happening, we just aren't confident in the teachers/chaperones ability to make the right decisions. Those large school groups just aren't very mobile and it's really hard for them to alter their plans. There was a local school group in Nice on the day of the attack and DH and I did not agree with the way the school responded. We were both very glad neither of our kids were with that group.

We plan to travel with our kids, and encourage exchanges, rather than sending them out with a large school group.

Can you please post on how the school responded to Nice attack?
(I and my older daughter were in Paris when it happened last July).

If I remember correctly, the school dithered for a couple days in Nice and then brought the whole group back home a week (ish) ahead of schedule. No refunds were given back to the parents even though their kid missed half the trip. There didn't seem to be an option to stay in France, but alter the itinerary to see things that weren't affected by the attack. The only 2 options seemed to be to come home or to continue on the trip as scheduled.

Many parents were mad that either 1) the kids were brought home, 2) the kids weren't brought home fast enough and/or, 3) lots of money was wasted. It really seemed like a clusterfuck and not a good experience for any of the kids.

DH and I both agreed that if we'd been on a trip overseas and something unexpected happened, our smaller family group would be better able to alter our itinerary so we could still have a good trip while mitigating risk.

OP - based on what you've posted so far, I'd deny the younger child's trip but tell her she may be able to go on the high school trip when the time comes.

[FiguringItOut]

From your comments it seems like the older one will actually appreciate it, but that it would be a total waste for the younger one. Why does she hate travel so much? Why does she want to go on this trip? I'd find that out before spending all that money.

It's not that she hates travel.  There are some other issues at play here (long story).  There are places she really wants to visit, Iceland and Japan for example.  But in Japan she's only interested in Pokemon culture. I refuse to consider a shlep to Japan to only see some Pokemon stuff.   In  Iceland she wants to see black sand beaches, glacier, but she won't hike to the glacier for example.  So she chooses not to go on a trip instead, though I offered an Iceland trip if she will participate in activities.

The school trip will, I think, offer structure and somewhat 'scholastic' environment that will hopefully give her 'this is required by school' feeling.  Plus they will be bused around to some places and she will be with friends. 
It may turn our that this school trip would give her the kick in the butt she needs to start being more adventurous.  (I can hope, can't I?)

[PoutineLover]

It seems like a lot of money to spend on the hope that she might enjoy it. Is there any way to do a local trip with her friends, basically something cheaper to see how she handles it? I know when I went with my sister on our first international trip, she only cared about finding wifi so she could talk to her friends. She's way better now, but it was very frustrating at the time. I personally hated school trips because there was always someone telling me where to go and we had to eat at places that everyone would like (so nothing good). If there are other issues you can't get into, that's fine, but maybe consider waiting until she is a bit more mature and will get more out of the experience. Some people just don't like travel and that's okay. It sounds like you are very into travel and enjoying that with your kids but it's possible that your energies are better spent elsewhere with this one.

[neophyte]

I did two trips in high school, neither quite that expensive. I think they were worth doing.  We knew about the trips about a year in advance and my parents made me pay for them myself.  I saved allowance, worked summers in a grocery store, walked dogs, weeded gardens, and babysat when my mother voluntold me to.  I think my parents also occasionally paid me to do bigger jobs around the house and yard.  If your child isn't old enough to legally work a real job, it makes earning money more difficult, but not impossible.

[Jrr85]

I'm generally in favor of students travelling abroad, but you might want to look into whether there are cheaper options- $4500 for a week long trip seems rather gold plated, considering that they are probably going to put the kids 4 to a room, etc.  Or is this the standard price these days?  (I know airfares are higher than they were back in the day...)

It really is a standard price these days.

I'm sure that these costs have to a lot to do with additional insurances that school trips would require.  And this being a school trip with her friends is really the main selling point here and probably the only reason she wants to go.  She's not a traveler at heart. 

That may be standard price for a school trip, but that's an expensive trip.  You could probably do a week long trip to Europe for you and both your daughters for about $6-7k (my wife and I did a 7 day trip to italy for around $5000).  If you're going to spend that much on a trip for the two of them, why not spend a little less and all three of you go on a big trip?

[I'm a red panda]

Man that's so hard to decide because that is very expensive. However one of my best experiences of my life was when I was 15 and went to Germany with Girl Scouts. However it was completely paid for by the National Organization as I was selected to represent the United States on this trip so it didn't cost my parents anything. However when I think back lifetime memory wise and considering the cost of airfare to Europe 4000 doesn't seem like too much to pay for the trip.

I do have to think though that rather than a school trip I almost would rather have a family trip to Europe. So in other words I'm not being very helpful here at all.

[joonifloofeefloo]

The school trip will, I think, offer structure and somewhat 'scholastic' environment that will hopefully give her 'this is required by school' feeling.  Plus they will be bused around to some places and she will be with friends. 
It may turn our that this school trip would give her the kick in the butt she needs to start being more adventurous.  (I can hope, can't I?)

OP, it sounds like you want the kids to do the trips, and that you're willing to fund it versus have the kids do so. That's a-okay!

As you can see, many of us who fully endorse international travel wouldn't spend this amount on this particular type and length of trip, or in a child this age, or send our kid on it regardless of price. (That's okay too.)

You get to do this if you want :)

A side effect of the thread is that if their dad views this as not a necessity, thus chooses not to fund towards it, you have our perspectives, too, to help you see his point of view and make the decision based on your own budget. That can be helpful in shared custody scenarios.

Your daughter may not be an adventurous person. I don't think a person can (or should) be made into one. She might be more into a bazillion other things (reading, pondering, friendship, etc). I bet she's great as is, and will demonstrate many wonderful traits aside from that when allowed to bloom based on who she is.

[Lepetitange3]

You've also said you've travelled internationally with the children already and plan to do so in the future.  If you just don't want to spend the money, that's perfectly fine too.  They're not missing out on anything.  Especially for younger daughter, doesn't sound like the time is right.  But hey, if you're ok with them going and don't want to fund it, let them make their case to dad.

[Dicey]

Hmmm, a million years ago, I traveled as a Girl Scout. Two memorable trips spring to mind. First one was with my troop through a number of National Parks and historic points of interest to and from National Center West, near Ten Sleep, Wyoming. Awesome trip!

The second was a smaller subset of scouts from multiple troops, who went to "Our Cabana"* in Cuernavaca, Mexico. I was older for this trip, and thus remember more.

The costs were quite low and I know I paid a good chunk of it through babysitting. I'm sure these trips contributed to my love of travel.

Two random stories from the Mexico trip: none of us wanted to wear our uniforms, but one day when it was mandatory, we were amazed at what respect they garnered. The rest of the trip, we all voluntarily wore them. Once, when two of us were separated from the group, we hailed a cab and said "Casa de las Guias". Because of our uniforms, he knew where to go and we were swiftly reunited with our group.

The second story, happened when we were not in uniform, finalized our decision to voluntarily wear them. We were on a crowded subway car (first subway ride for most of us) during rush hour in Mexico City. When we got off the car, one of the girls burst into tears. Seems someone's fingers had been pinching her ass and she froze, rather than speaking out or moving. I said she should have told me, I'd have kicked whoever it was in the nuts for her. Apparently this got back to my mom, who was a chaperone on the trip, but was in another section of the car. I thought I'd get in trouble for saying that, but apparently she was quite pleased. I never understood why the other girl did nothing.

My point is that your kids can make life-long memories, such as mine, in other ways, for a fraction of the cost. Seek out other opportunities if you think your kids will benefit from travel, but not at such a high price.

My current city has a Sister Cities Program with two similar  size cities in Europe. The participants come from all the high schools in the city,  so the kids get to meet others from the same area, plus make new friends from far away. The trip doesn't have to be with her school.

*I remember it as "Nuestra Cabana" but Google insists on "Our Cabana". Same place.

[lentil]

Just to add one more bit of anecdotal input, my younger brother was an awful traveler when he was a kid. He ruined almost every family trip he came on, decided around age 12 that he was going to absolutely refuse to camp ever again (which was a bummer, since that was pretty much the staple of our family trips), and just did not have any fun (or let others have much!). Poor guy just hated it, and didn't deal well with change or new situations.

Fast-forward to today, when he's a terrific person in his mid-thirties who LOVES to travel. He's lived & worked in several different countries, recently introduced his girlfriend to international travel, and works hard to make as many of his vacations travel-based as possible. Oh, and spent ten minutes during a recent phone call explaining to me about how great camping is...the nice thing is, over the phone, no one can see me facepalm ;-)

I don't know what made the difference, just wanted to throw out that just because a person is unenthusiastic about family trips doesn't mean they won't grow up into a traveler. Or anything else, for that matter. People are surprising!

[Tick-Tock]

I went on trips to Europe after 8th grade and during sophomore and junior years of high school (junior year was a 3-week exchange program).  I was a fairly serious kid, always interested in history, art, theater, etc., and looking back I still think that the 8th grade trip was too early.  I got so much more out of the high school trips.

[historienne]

The money wouldn't bother me if in good financial shape, but sending my young kids that far from home unaccompanied by myself sure would.

I went on a Paris school trip at 16 and that was still borderline too young. I will pay for study abroad for each child. (Did it twice myself) it will be as adults though. I'll take my kids to Europe in their teens when I can watch them.

Obviously this is going to vary by kid, but I spent a year abroad without my parents at age 16.  It was an organized thing, I had a host family, etc - it was fantastic and I would absolutely let my own kids do a similar program at that age.

[TrMama]

Just to add one more bit of anecdotal input, my younger brother was an awful traveler when he was a kid. He ruined almost every family trip he came on, decided around age 12 that he was going to absolutely refuse to camp ever again (which was a bummer, since that was pretty much the staple of our family trips), and just did not have any fun (or let others have much!). Poor guy just hated it, and didn't deal well with change or new situations.

Fast-forward to today, when he's a terrific person in his mid-thirties who LOVES to travel. He's lived & worked in several different countries, recently introduced his girlfriend to international travel, and works hard to make as many of his vacations travel-based as possible. Oh, and spent ten minutes during a recent phone call explaining to me about how great camping is...the nice thing is, over the phone, no one can see me facepalm ;-)

I don't know what made the difference, just wanted to throw out that just because a person is unenthusiastic about family trips doesn't mean they won't grow up into a traveler. Or anything else, for that matter. People are surprising!

I think that's called adolescence . . . My mom used to firmly tell us, "We're going to have fun whether you want to or not!"

[Dicey]

I think that's called adolescence . . . My mom used to firmly tell us, "We're going to have fun whether you want to or not!"

I love your mother!