Salvage or Clean Title for Used Car

[GigiH]

I'm in the market for a new-to-me used car. I'm looking at either a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla and hoping to get a 2010 or newer for under $8000 (I live in the San Francisco Bay Area  where everything is more expensive). Is buying a salvage title ever a good idea, if you can get a newer model with less mileage than one with a clean title?

[former player]

I've done it, but under very controlled conditions.

1.  If you can, see the car before the repairs are done so you understand the extent of the damage.  If you can't then get as much documentation about the damage and the repairs as you can.
2.  Either have the repairs done by a garage you trust, or have an expert you trust check that they've been done fully and properly.  Mine was repaired by the garage which was recommended to me 20 years ago and I've been going to ever since. I'd be doubtful about buying a flood damaged car, they are notoriously hard to repair fully, and you need to make sure the electronics are good as they are expensive to deal with.
3.  Check on what your insurance will be - some companies either won't insure at all or will charge more.
4.  Try to work out where the value is for you that wasn't there for the insurance company.  Mine was almost new with front end damage and was written off under a "replace with new" policy.  Insurers might also write off if repairs would take too long and they are on the hook for an expensive hire, or if the car is old and there isn't enough monetary value left in it.  If none of these apply you might be looking at something that needed very expensive repairs for its value, in which case the question is: were those repairs still done properly for the price you are being asked to pay?

If the area you live in is expensive for cars do you have any opportunity for a bit of geographical arbitrage, eg buying a car somewhere else that you have connections?  I'd also put the word out with friends, family and colleagues to see if anything comes up that way - a car belonging to an older person who has given up driving might be a good bet.  For that matter, if you have an assisted living facility near you you could even ask there if any of the residents have a car they no longer drive and would be willing to sell.

[GilesMM]

You picked a bad time to shop for a car as prices, while falling from highs, are still astronomical relative to 2019. 

You should be able to pick up a 2010 Corolla with a bit over 100,000 miles in your price range without going to a salvage title.  They run forever.

Here's one in Hayward https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1NXBU4EEXAZ328542

[Paper Chaser]

Salvage titles can come from a number of different causes. Collisions are probably the most common, but floods, hail damage, lightning strikes, mechanical problems, etc all happen too. You need to know why it was totaled, and preferably know your way around a modern-ish car to see what happened and how it was repaired.

I'd have zero issues with a salvage title caused by hail damage. That's probably just cosmetic. There's no way I'd buy a flood or lightning damaged vehicle, as damage can be undetectable and difficult/expensive to resolve. Collision damage varies. You need to be comfortable with the extent of the damage, and confident that it was repaired well and all functions (such as airbags) remain present and operational.

If you're going to drive it into the ground, resale value may not be a huge concern but you still need to be confident in your vehicle. So if you have uncertainty about what happened or how it was repaired I'd just keep looking.

[nick663]

You need to know the reason for the salvage but I would pass in most cases.  Generally speaking, if a car gets a salvage title it's because the insurance company deemed the damage exceeds xx% of the car's value so you should be quite skeptical if corners that were cut by a 3rd party to repair the vehicle.

After spending a few years around crash testing, I wouldn't touch a car that had crash damage.  Modern designs are very particular on how they perform in a collision and I have zero faith in a body shop to repair them correctly.  Third party parts, cutting/welding, etc. are far too common in the collision industry and it can cause the car to perform poorly later.  Notable example of this is a couple who was seriously injured in a relatively minor collision because their Honda Fit was "repaired" by bonding the roof instead of welding it:  https://www.thedrive.com/news/15027/couple-awarded-42-million-for-crash-injuries-after-body-shop-glues-on-replacement-roof

An engineer later testified that the crash was "virtually identical" to the IIHS's moderate-overlap crash test, and that the 2010 Fit has a "good" rating. However, the force of the impact caused the roof to separate, leading to a cascade of structural failures that jammed the doors shut and caused the fuel tank to ignite.

.....

Soon after the crash, the couple hired a local attorney named Todd Tracy to look into the car's past. What he found was nothing short of shocking: in 2012, months before the Seebachans bought the car, the previous owner had brought the Honda Fit into John Eagle Collision Center after the roof had been damaged by hail. Yet rather than weld on a new panel, as Honda requires, the shop instead opted to use an untested epoxy adhesive. None of this was disclosed in the vehicle history report provided to the couple when they made the purchase.

[curious_george]

Most of my cars have been salvage rebuilt vehicles. This actually saved less money than you might think...

A few tips for salvage cars:

1.) Ask for pictures of before the damage was fixed. You can't always see the car in person before and after, but in my very very limited experience of two dealerships they both gave me before pictures. Use these pictures to then thoroughly inspect the vehicle around the damaged area.

2.) Inspect the frame. Drive the vehicle and check for shaking, alignment issues, etc.

3.) Check with insurance company.

4.) Remember that resale value may be horrible. Drive car into ground instead of reselling it.

Honestly I wouldn't bother with salvage cars these days unless one is really trying to pinch pennies...partially for safety issues as already mentioned, but also for other issues that may not be obvious upon inspection like e.g. leaking seals around doors/trunks, frame damage, etc. The risk is small but potentially lethal and the savings are also small. I might feel differently about this if the cars were half off, but in my experience you only save 10% or so. It's not worth the hassle imo.

[oneday]

My dad was a mechanic, could fix any issue.

I am not. Dad counseled me not to buy salvage, as you can just never be sure it won't give you problems later, or will end up costing more to fix that it is worth.

I always buy used cars from private parties, especially after getting burned by a dealership in the late 90's. For a Civic or Corolla that you are thinking about getting, don't shy away from higher-mileage vehicles. They are very sold cars. Just be sure maintenance is current, and that you are prepared for/negotiate down the price if any upcoming big-ticket maintenance such as the timing belt (every 90K miles if I remember correctly).

Good luck!

[ChickenStash]

My only experience with a salvage title vehicle did not go well. Drove fine, straight frame, no suspension damage, a check engine light for a simple problem, and some body panels were replaced. It was an older vehicle so it wouldn't have taken much to total it. Unfortunately, the real issues were in the interior wiring harness that I couldn't see without taking the interior apart which a dealer wouldn't let me do. Man, what a mess that was. I lost count of how many hours I spent tracing and repairing wires and connections. I never did get it working right and eventually junked it. Hopefully, someone got some decent parts off it.

I say that as a tale of warning. Try to find out why the car was salvaged. Flood or water damage? Run far, far away. Just mechanical/body damage? Maybe OK if it drives straight and is in alignment. If the reason isn't known? Best to avoid.

I would definitely not recommend getting one unless there's easy access to someone that's handy with cars, including electrical diagnostic work.

On a positive note, a friend bought a lemon law buyback car and things went well. It was originally taken back for issues with the sunroof leaking and after it was fixed he never had a problem. It was a nice discount for him on a great vehicle. He was an auto mechanic for a while so he was willing to take the risk of having to deal with it himself.

[Michael in ABQ]

I had a car that ended up with a salvage title because someone clipped the right rear of the car and basically messed up a couple of body panels. I ended up slapping some Bondo on there and drove it for another year or two before someone really totaled it by crashing into me as I was stopped at a yield sign. In both cases the insurance payout was probably more than I could have sold it for, and I kept the car. The second time I kept it long enough to get $100 from a salvage yard.


Whenever I think of salvage titles, I remember helping my best friend work on an old VW Jetta Mk 2 in the parking lot of his apartment complex when we were about 18. It was raining, about 40 degrees out, dark, and three of us spent literally hours trying to get a frame piece supporting the engine back in place. It looked fine at first glance but as soon as we removed that crossmember the rest of the frame was bent just enough that we couldn't get the holes to line back up to get the bolts in. We eventually used a couple of pry bars and some car jacks in odd positions to basically force it back into position. Not worth it.

[grantmeaname]

You need to be ... confident that it was repaired well and all functions (such as airbags) remain present and operational.

Fun story about this. In half of the states when they are recertifying a car as roadworthy and flipping the title from salvage to rebuilt, they check that the car has airbags in it. In the other half of states, they just check that there is not a light saying that there are no airbags. If you were an unscrupulous person who wanted a rebuilt title, would you spend the five figure cost to do things right, or would you just pull out the airbag harness with the light on it and go to Florida or Indiana for your inspection?

Yes, I found this out the hard way. Clean titles only from now on for me.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

You need to be ... confident that it was repaired well and all functions (such as airbags) remain present and operational.

Fun story about this. In half of the states when they are recertifying a car as roadworthy and flipping the title from salvage to rebuilt, they check that the car has airbags in it. In the other half of states, they just check that there is not a light saying that there are no airbags. If you were an unscrupulous person who wanted a rebuilt title, would you spend the five figure cost to do things right, or would you just pull out the airbag harness with the light on it and go to Florida or Indiana for your inspection?

Yes, I found this out the hard way. Clean titles only from now on for me.

There are so many ways to screw people over with salvage titles that I've only bought them from people I know who have repaired them, themselves, but under those conditions, I have bought them.

[alex618]

One thing to clarify is that there is a difference between a salvage and rebuilt title.  It sounds like you are talking about purchasing a rebuilt title, not salvage.

A salvage titled vehicle is a car that was totalled (for whatever reason.)  You will not be able to get it insured/registered without undergoing an "enhanced" safety inspection.  The definition of the word enhanced is pretty loose here and differs state by state.

Once you complete this inspection you are issued a rebuilt title.  At that point you can insure/register/drive it like a normal vehicle.

I'm not trying to be pedantic but there's a lot of confusion/misinformation about this topic, and people will say things like "you'll have trouble with your insurance company accepting your salvage car" - which is technically true, but not in the way that most people think because they use the terms salvage and rebuilt interchangeably.  They are completely different title classifications.

https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/rebuilt-title-vs-salvage-title-whats-difference-281474979846034

[former player]

One thing to clarify is that there is a difference between a salvage and rebuilt title.  It sounds like you are talking about purchasing a rebuilt title, not salvage.

A salvage titled vehicle is a car that was totalled (for whatever reason.)  You will not be able to get it insured/registered without undergoing an "enhanced" safety inspection.  The definition of the word enhanced is pretty loose here and differs state by state.

Once you complete this inspection you are issued a rebuilt title.  At that point you can insure/register/drive it like a normal vehicle.

I'm not trying to be pedantic but there's a lot of confusion/misinformation about this topic, and people will say things like "you'll have trouble with your insurance company accepting your salvage car" - which is technically true, but not in the way that most people think because they use the terms salvage and rebuilt interchangeably.  They are completely different title classifications.

https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/rebuilt-title-vs-salvage-title-whats-difference-281474979846034

It's a different system in the UK.  There are four categories of damage: Categories A and B are the most serious and the body shell has to be scrapped (Cat B can have some parts salvaged), Categories S and N (formerly C and D) can be repaired and put back on the road.  Still need to know what you are doing to buy one, or have someone you really trust.

[merula]

My experience with a salvage title is off from what's been described, but it was years ago and my first car, so maybe I'm missing something, or maybe there are more state-by-state variations than I thought.

I bought a 2003 Ford Focus in 2007, from a friend of my godmother's who fixed up Focuses specifically. Mine was either the second or third my family had gotten from them. I asked if it was a salvage title and was told no, it was some minor body damage that had been repaired by getting a panel from a salvaged car. I saw a photo of the damage and it wasn't bad. The physical title didn't say anything about salvage. The state (MN) doesn't do any emissions or safety checks on passenger vehicles.

That car worked great for years, only minor maintenance things, and the only reason I wanted to trade it in was because I needed a 4-door for car seat reasons.

At the dealership, they came back saying it was a salvage title, with the KBB report proving it. They still took the trade-in, but for less than I was expecting. (I did use that as a negotiating point, so the difference wasn't huge in the end.)

The other thing to keep in mind is that salvage is often a decision made by insurance companies, and having worked for an insurance carrier for almost 20 years, I can tell you that there is a lot of variability there. A damaged car that would've been definitely salvaged in 2019 could be worth repairing in early 2021 (when used car prices spiked but before the parts crunch), and then might be back to salvage today. It's also possible to negotiate repair vs replace with the insurance company in some cases; my sister's car was about to be salvaged after an accident when my dad pointed out that the replacement would take longer than the repair and they had rental reimbursement, and the adjuster ran some more numbers and opted to repair the car.

[index]

I'm in the market for a new-to-me used car. I'm looking at either a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla and hoping to get a 2010 or newer for under $8000 (I live in the San Francisco Bay Area  where everything is more expensive). Is buying a salvage title ever a good idea, if you can get a newer model with less mileage than one with a clean title?

This is probably going to piss the Japanese car fans off but Honda or Toyota is a boomer hang over from the 80s to the early 2000s when the other car makers were turning out junk. After 2008, the automakers all had to up their game. 200k miles is the new 100k of old and most cars today are going to make it to that number easily. If you don't drive much, look for a newer 2016+ car with high mileage - bonus if you can score something with the preventative maintenance done. If you pile on the miles - looks for something closer to the 2010 mark with low mileage. I wouldn't got salvage -> a Kia with a clean title >>> salvaged Toyota.

[grantmeaname]

After 2008, the automakers all had to up their game.

Except Chrysler, which didn't get the message and has worsened even faster than the meteoric rise in quality of Kia/Hyundai.