Author Topic: Salary/raise? What would you do?  (Read 1931 times)

studlyrs

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Salary/raise? What would you do?
« on: October 26, 2017, 07:15:21 AM »
I work for a privately held company in a very specialized IT position.  I'm the only one in our company of 4k employees that is an "expert" at what I do.  The company thought it would be best to have another individual with the same expertise.  I am all for this because it will relieve some of the burden on me.  I recruited and am now training this person.  They come from a different department and come with a salary roughly 20-25% more than me.  The company has assured him that his salary will stay the same.  I will be managing this person and think it would be fair that my salary should be compensated.  I know the company won't approach me on this and I will have to be the aggressor if I want more money.  I know what selling points I have and how I would negotiate this but I am curious what others would do or if others have been in this same position and what the outcome was. 

nobody123

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2017, 08:17:22 AM »
You know what to do.  Tell them you want more money.  If your position is worth 25% more than you're currently making, and you have to supervise someone making that amount, ask for a raise to get you above their salary.

TartanTallulah

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 08:25:13 AM »
Point out that the salary difference hasn't escaped your notice, and ask for an increase.

topshot

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2017, 09:20:23 AM »
Though also realize you may well be training your replacement so be prepared for anything.

Josiecat

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2017, 09:24:49 AM »
If you will be managing this person, then yes you should be making more than them.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2017, 09:42:14 AM »
My manager was in this position when I was hired. It sucked for them. They asked for a raise based only on what I was paid and "fairness" and were told that I'd used up all the salary budget for the team. They busted a gut over the next couple of years delivering great work and over two pay cycles got to a place where they were making more than me. The way the hiring cycle worked out, they needed to pay more when they recruited me than when they recruited the manager a couple of years ago.

When I felt I was underpaid I made noises about looking to move, booked a couple of half days off and then came in wearing my best suit, and BOOM, out-of-sequence raise time. I'm still better paid per hour than my manager. My employer is not fair.

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I was also in the position where I was mentoring someone who was brand new to the company, and the industry, but was a couple of decades older than me and paid considerably more than me (and at a higher grade than me), being trained to do the exact same work as me. Although it grated to be training someone on basic things knowing they were being paid more, that was just the way it was. The company would have preferred to have hired a second person with my level of experience and at my wage, they weren't around, so they had to pay more. If I'd have made a fuss about this or asked to be moved up two grades and paid vastly more it would have looked like I didn't understand some basic things about how life works and that sometimes things aren't fair.

Do you know if you are underpaid for your work? Could you get a job elsewhere paid the same or more as this person? Do they have skills that you don't have and are being paid for that even as they "super-sub" into your team?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2017, 09:47:43 AM »
Your salary is not based on comparison with others or some nebulous concept of fairness, it's based on your best alternative (google BATNA or best alternative to negotiated agreement for more on the economics of strategy).  If you went to work elsewhere, what would you earn? If 20% more, then you should have gone already. If exactly the same, then you might as well stay. Your overpaid coworker would be first to go in a layoff anyway.

HR might be persuaded by your research/sources or they might be persuaded to make a counteroffer once you bring them a competitive job offer. On the other hand, if you whine that so-and-so makes more, they'll probably just write you up for violating policy and comparing salaries.

use2betrix

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2017, 10:02:28 AM »
It definitely sucks and I understand the frustration.

That being said - there’s often more than just “job responsibilities” in what determines a salary. If he came from another department and they’re taking the time to re-train him in something else, I would imagine he has shown the company that he is worthy of that salary, to them.

Sometimes people get hired on for more $ because the company is desperate. At my last job, I was the only person out of about 60 people (other than my boss) that was allowed to work 10 hrs overtime each week (we were hourly). I’m 29 and I’d say my average coworker age was 50. Many of them had been there years and I was the “new guy.” This obviously rubbed a ton of them the wrong way and they let me know, and never dropped it. I’d always tell them that, “when I was hired the only way that I’d accept the position is if I can work 50 hrs a week, I wouldn’t accept the job at 40 hrs.” So - it was my negotiating skills and they obviously really needed someone to fill the position. Sorry that my coworkers didn’t do the same negotiating skills when they were hired. Either they’d be working 50 hrs, or they wouldn’t be there at all, because I certainly wouldn’t have been there for 40 hrs a week..

mm1970

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 10:27:56 AM »
If you will be managing this person, then yes you should be making more than them.
Not necessarily.

In this particular case?  Probably.

I've hired people to work for me who made more - where I was a manager but they were experts in their field with 40 years experience.

Laura33

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 10:29:44 AM »
In some industries/work areas, the only realistic way to get a promotion/raise is by changing companies (this was a fact of life in my DH's world that he had to explain to me).  If this is your industry, then you should be investigating what other opportunities may be and what they offer.  If you can find a better-paid alternative, then either your employer matches or you jump to a better opportunity, which is a win-win for you.

But, yeah, "fairness" doesn't tend to go far with most companies.  Playing with FIRE's experience is far more common.

BlueHouse

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 10:42:55 AM »
The way the hiring cycle worked out, they needed to pay more when they recruited me than when they recruited the manager a couple of years ago.

I deal with budgets and salaries of many people in many different capacities, in many different companies.  The above seems to have the most impact on what someone is earning even years after hiring.  You may need to be prepared to leave to get paid more. 

nobody123

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 12:28:29 PM »
Your salary is not based on comparison with others or some nebulous concept of fairness, it's based on your best alternative (google BATNA or best alternative to negotiated agreement for more on the economics of strategy).  If you went to work elsewhere, what would you earn? If 20% more, then you should have gone already. If exactly the same, then you might as well stay. Your overpaid coworker would be first to go in a layoff anyway.

HR might be persuaded by your research/sources or they might be persuaded to make a counteroffer once you bring them a competitive job offer. On the other hand, if you whine that so-and-so makes more, they'll probably just write you up for violating policy and comparing salaries.

I agree that whining about a salary issue is not the way to go.  I manage folks that make more money than I do (they have 20+ more years of experience, so it makes sense).  However, in this case, OP is being asked to manage someone, which is a new responsibility.  The company has already determined that a second person is needed in the area and what a novice would be paid (subordinate's salary).  So, OP needs to do the research to show that their skillset & experience is worth $X in the marketplace, and that adding management responsibilities should mean a bump of $Y on top of that.  Generally, a company knows that if they significantly underpay someone for an extended period of time, they'll quit.  So there is some notion of "fairness" that does come into play here.

I do find it interesting that OP "recruited" the new employee.  How was that possible without knowing the budget for the position?  Why wasn't a salary bump for becoming a supervisor part of the initial conversations?

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2017, 12:06:08 AM »
I do find it interesting that OP "recruited" the new employee.  How was that possible without knowing the budget for the position?  Why wasn't a salary bump for becoming a supervisor part of the initial conversations?

If the position was only open to existing employees there may not have been a budget. If we take an employee from another area, we fill out one form, and it needs four management signatures. If we recruit to replace someone, it's three forms, and many levels of management (to the point where the person making the final decision has no clue what the individual will be doing or what the team does. If we want to add a new position, we need to build an extensive business case, have months of data, add a litre of sweat and blood and get approval from the head of the company, counter-signed by Thor. It's only if the person sticks around that it's easier to do the recruitment request than just carry on doing the extra work.

nobody123

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2017, 06:51:31 AM »
I do find it interesting that OP "recruited" the new employee.  How was that possible without knowing the budget for the position?  Why wasn't a salary bump for becoming a supervisor part of the initial conversations?

If the position was only open to existing employees there may not have been a budget. If we take an employee from another area, we fill out one form, and it needs four management signatures. If we recruit to replace someone, it's three forms, and many levels of management (to the point where the person making the final decision has no clue what the individual will be doing or what the team does. If we want to add a new position, we need to build an extensive business case, have months of data, add a litre of sweat and blood and get approval from the head of the company, counter-signed by Thor. It's only if the person sticks around that it's easier to do the recruitment request than just carry on doing the extra work.

Wow, that's an amazingly odd way to run a business.  We have the same process for an internal or external hire, but if you are considering poaching an employee from another manager it is generally considered good form to speak with him or her privately before the job posting is published.

There has to be a budget somewhere.  Even with an internal transfer, you'd have to backfill the vacated position, so there'd be some idea of what the incremental payroll would be.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Salary/raise? What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2017, 07:07:42 AM »
I do find it interesting that OP "recruited" the new employee.  How was that possible without knowing the budget for the position?  Why wasn't a salary bump for becoming a supervisor part of the initial conversations?

If the position was only open to existing employees there may not have been a budget. If we take an employee from another area, we fill out one form, and it needs four management signatures. If we recruit to replace someone, it's three forms, and many levels of management (to the point where the person making the final decision has no clue what the individual will be doing or what the team does. If we want to add a new position, we need to build an extensive business case, have months of data, add a litre of sweat and blood and get approval from the head of the company, counter-signed by Thor. It's only if the person sticks around that it's easier to do the recruitment request than just carry on doing the extra work.

Wow, that's an amazingly odd way to run a business. We have the same process for an internal or external hire, but if you are considering poaching an employee from another manager it is generally considered good form to speak with him or her privately before the job posting is published.

There has to be a budget somewhere.  Even with an internal transfer, you'd have to backfill the vacated position, so there'd be some idea of what the incremental payroll would be.

Yes.

Not at my company. An internal transfer is stealing/borrowing someone else's headcount, and the previous team remains with a shortfall. If the original position is backfilled there is a separate recruitment approval process.

Imagine, if you will, a company run by people who believe that as long as your staff are sleeping, they could be working harder, and thus are lazy so you should be looking to reduce headcount.

This might have gone far enough off topic. I don't work at the OP's company, so apart from adding to the "hiring and budgets can be weird and arbitrary" I'm not sure that it's helpful to the OP.