Author Topic: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...  (Read 17390 times)

GuitarStv

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2014, 08:25:59 AM »
It's unrealistic to expect to avoid being hit in a situation where you're seriously attacked.  A good instructor should teach you how to minimize the damage, disorientation, and control the fear that you'll feel when this happens.  It's not easy by any means, this is why fighting should always be a last resort.

There are certainly poor Jiu-Jitsu instructors out there.  It's become a bit of a trendy sport and I've found some unskilled guys trying to cash in as instructors who really shouldn't be teaching.  If the one that you have seems unable to help you learn to defend yourself, head elsewhere.

Metta

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2014, 08:26:48 AM »
Is this a once in a lifetime thing or something I should prepare myself for in the future? How would I do this? Is this a woman only thing or is any bike rider at risk due to the stupidity of drunk/late night party drivers and their non consensual version of fun?

I think it is common or not depending on where you bike. I've had a few similar experiences but didn't choose to buy a car to avoid them. (I eventually had to buy a car when I moved somewhere with no appropriate streets to bike on.) The best thing I did was to buy a very, very loud electric bike horn that scared the hell out of everyone nearby. Like this one: http://usa.thehornit.com/product/hornit-db140

As someone else said, you have to live your life. There are terrible people everywhere and you can't enter a nunnery to avoid them. You might want to start biking in a very safe area to get your confidence back before doing the early morning shift, though.

Metta

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2014, 08:31:19 AM »
To go a little off topic into self defense here since it was brought up . . .

In high school I was bullied pretty badly.  Up to and including being jumped by a few guys and beaten unconscious while walking to school one morning.  I have spent many years of my life since training in various martial arts (1 year Aikido, 5 years WTF Taekwondo, 3 years Muay Thai, 2 years Judo, 4 years Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) along with some boxing and wrestling.


I took a few years of Aikido and found that learning how to fall has paid dividends in my life. Most of my falls are not due to getting knocked down. They are the result of missteps or hiking or running on difficult ground. Learning to fall has probably saved me from injuries countless times over.

GuitarStv

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2014, 08:37:14 AM »
To go a little off topic into self defense here since it was brought up . . .

In high school I was bullied pretty badly.  Up to and including being jumped by a few guys and beaten unconscious while walking to school one morning.  I have spent many years of my life since training in various martial arts (1 year Aikido, 5 years WTF Taekwondo, 3 years Muay Thai, 2 years Judo, 4 years Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) along with some boxing and wrestling.


I took a few years of Aikido and found that learning how to fall has paid dividends in my life. Most of my falls are not due to getting knocked down. They are the result of missteps or hiking or running on difficult ground. Learning to fall has probably saved me from injuries countless times over.

I went over my handlebars at good speed this summer . . . thanks to ingrained habits from Judo ended up shoulder rolling out of it and came out relatively unscathed.  :P  There are certainly fringe benefits!

Gin1984

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2014, 08:46:50 AM »
It's unrealistic to expect to avoid being hit in a situation where you're seriously attacked.  A good instructor should teach you how to minimize the damage, disorientation, and control the fear that you'll feel when this happens.  It's not easy by any means, this is why fighting should always be a last resort.

There are certainly poor Jiu-Jitsu instructors out there.  It's become a bit of a trendy sport and I've found some unskilled guys trying to cash in as instructors who really shouldn't be teaching.  If the one that you have seems unable to help you learn to defend yourself, head elsewhere.
I have found, at least the times I have been attacked that the men are trying to trap me and I have been able to avoid being hit.  I may just have been lucky, that is certainly possible.  The most upsetting time the guy grabbed me from behind, and did not hit.  He was more interesting in grabbing me, and trying to remove my clothes. However, if you fight back and don't stop them quickly I assume the attacker with default to hitting.  I was lucky to hurt him enough, quickly enough that it did not happen. 
That being said, just with basic size differences I can't stay up if hit by someone five inches and twice my size hits me.  Yes, there are some ways to minimize it but even with that, a good hit and I am down.  That is just a basic fact.  I'm thirty years old and have been dealing with this since I was twelve, trust me I do know my limits.  Why do you think women are so much more careful?

GuitarStv

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2014, 09:07:01 AM »
I'm not saying that BJJ is a panacea.  It's just a tool that could come in handy.  Particularly in situations where you're being grabbed, an understanding of grappling is useful.  If someone has 100 lbs on you you're in grave danger regardless of how skilled you are.  Surviving an attack is really the only thing that matters.  I'm glad that you got away OK.

Beric01

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2014, 11:56:05 AM »
Krav Maga teaches you how to anticipate attacks such that you can block or avoid them. However, it also teaches you a good defensive stance so that you won't go down immediately on being hit, no matter how much you're overpowered. Krav also teaches you specific defenses if someone pulls a gun or knife on you. It's supposed to be the most practical martial art out there. You can't count on an attacker coming at you with only their fists. In Krav you fight for your life so you fight "dirty".
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 11:57:57 AM by Beric01 »

Gin1984

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2014, 12:57:27 PM »
I'm not saying that BJJ is a panacea.  It's just a tool that could come in handy.  Particularly in situations where you're being grabbed, an understanding of grappling is useful.  If someone has 100 lbs on you you're in grave danger regardless of how skilled you are.  Surviving an attack is really the only thing that matters.  I'm glad that you got away OK.
And I did learn some stuff from it, but as you said "If someone has 100 lbs on you you're in grave danger regardless of how skilled you are".  Any time we practiced and I was against a larger guy, I went down. Yes, I can use what they taught me against another woman or small man, but not against the average man. I found other arts more helpful for someone my size.  But that could be because I had been learning for 7 years prior.  You know the worst part about it, according to the cops after they got there, if I had not been a minor, what I did to get free would have been "excessive force" and they would have had to arrest me as well.  In fact, if I did not have witnesses (was done right outside the student union, in front of the windows), they might have arrested me anyway.  Part of the plea deal was agreeing not to sue me in civil for damages.  Granted, I did hurt him, but WTF did they expect? 

enigmaT120

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2014, 05:57:21 PM »
What country was that in?

Gin1984

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2014, 06:23:57 PM »
What country was that in?
USA, California to be specific.

sheepstache

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2014, 06:36:01 PM »
I have found, at least the times I have been attacked that the men are trying to trap me and I have been able to avoid being hit.  I may just have been lucky, that is certainly possible.  The most upsetting time the guy grabbed me from behind, and did not hit.  He was more interesting in grabbing me, and trying to remove my clothes. However, if you fight back and don't stop them quickly I assume the attacker with default to hitting.  I was lucky to hurt him enough, quickly enough that it did not happen. 

I noticed when learning tae kwon do that all the self-defense aspects were taught as though you were a guy challenged in a street fight. It was interesting, but frankly, as a lady, I suspected dudes were not going to walk up and hit me and do anything else that looked much like sparring.

skunkfunk

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2014, 10:15:04 PM »
What country was that in?
USA, California to be specific.

What the hell, how often can somebody be attacked in California?? And for that matter I thought you could KILL somebody who is trying to rape you without repercussion. Could you seriously be liable for harming somebody who is a piece of shit like that?

Gin1984

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2014, 06:12:17 AM »
What country was that in?
USA, California to be specific.

What the hell, how often can somebody be attacked in California?? And for that matter I thought you could KILL somebody who is trying to rape you without repercussion. Could you seriously be liable for harming somebody who is a piece of shit like that?
I dislocated his knee (which was consider acceptable force) and then when he dropped me I kicked him in the balls and then hit him in the neck.  He feel down but tried to get up, I popped his testes sac (considered excessive).  He was still coming after me, so I thought I could still fight, legally.  But the cop even though he was getting up, he was down at the time and I should have just run instead of making sure he could not run after me.  Legally I would have been better off if hitting him in the neck killed him, but I did not have enough force for that to happen. 
And why would you think Ca is any safer than any other state? 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 06:14:05 AM by Gin1984 »

skunkfunk

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2014, 08:31:28 AM »
What country was that in?
USA, California to be specific.

What the hell, how often can somebody be attacked in California?? And for that matter I thought you could KILL somebody who is trying to rape you without repercussion. Could you seriously be liable for harming somebody who is a piece of shit like that?
I dislocated his knee (which was consider acceptable force) and then when he dropped me I kicked him in the balls and then hit him in the neck.  He feel down but tried to get up, I popped his testes sac (considered excessive).  He was still coming after me, so I thought I could still fight, legally.  But the cop even though he was getting up, he was down at the time and I should have just run instead of making sure he could not run after me.  Legally I would have been better off if hitting him in the neck killed him, but I did not have enough force for that to happen. 
And why would you think Ca is any safer than any other state?

Weird. I guess you could argue that he might have been armed?

Gin1984

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2014, 08:51:38 AM »
What country was that in?
USA, California to be specific.

What the hell, how often can somebody be attacked in California?? And for that matter I thought you could KILL somebody who is trying to rape you without repercussion. Could you seriously be liable for harming somebody who is a piece of shit like that?
I dislocated his knee (which was consider acceptable force) and then when he dropped me I kicked him in the balls and then hit him in the neck.  He feel down but tried to get up, I popped his testes sac (considered excessive).  He was still coming after me, so I thought I could still fight, legally.  But the cop even though he was getting up, he was down at the time and I should have just run instead of making sure he could not run after me.  Legally I would have been better off if hitting him in the neck killed him, but I did not have enough force for that to happen. 
And why would you think Ca is any safer than any other state?

Weird. I guess you could argue that he might have been armed?
I honestly was too freaked out to deal with it and because I was a minor I got to not do so.  I shut up and called my mother and she dealt with it all.  I guess there is a benefit of being a kid, lol.  Did make me practice neck shot more after that though. 

sheepstache

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2014, 09:01:52 AM »
What the hell, how often can somebody be attacked in California?? And for that matter I thought you could KILL somebody who is trying to rape you without repercussion. Could you seriously be liable for harming somebody who is a piece of shit like that?
I dislocated his knee (which was consider acceptable force) and then when he dropped me I kicked him in the balls and then hit him in the neck.  He feel down but tried to get up, I popped his testes sac (considered excessive).  He was still coming after me, so I thought I could still fight, legally.  But the cop even though he was getting up, he was down at the time and I should have just run instead of making sure he could not run after me.  Legally I would have been better off if hitting him in the neck killed him, but I did not have enough force for that to happen. 
And why would you think Ca is any safer than any other state?

I wonder if the thinking was that, since there was a populated building right near by, help was only a short run away. I haven't had this type of experience but I've mentally practiced some similar scenarios and I think my instincts would be the same as yours. If you get him down, make him stay down. If he gets back up before you get help, now you're again at a physical disadvantage, have lost the element of surprise, and he's super pissed. In a self-defense scenario, you have to assume the worst, that he's armed or that you won't get help, etc.

Since charges weren't pressed, I suppose it's possible that cop was just ignorant or fucking with you.

I'd like to make some sort of joke here about CA being liberal and criminals having a right to do their jobs without risk of physical injury but I'm not sure I've had enough coffee yet to pull it off.

Gin1984

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2014, 09:14:09 AM »
What the hell, how often can somebody be attacked in California?? And for that matter I thought you could KILL somebody who is trying to rape you without repercussion. Could you seriously be liable for harming somebody who is a piece of shit like that?
I dislocated his knee (which was consider acceptable force) and then when he dropped me I kicked him in the balls and then hit him in the neck.  He feel down but tried to get up, I popped his testes sac (considered excessive).  He was still coming after me, so I thought I could still fight, legally.  But the cop even though he was getting up, he was down at the time and I should have just run instead of making sure he could not run after me.  Legally I would have been better off if hitting him in the neck killed him, but I did not have enough force for that to happen. 
And why would you think Ca is any safer than any other state?

I wonder if the thinking was that, since there was a populated building right near by, help was only a short run away. I haven't had this type of experience but I've mentally practiced some similar scenarios and I think my instincts would be the same as yours. If you get him down, make him stay down. If he gets back up before you get help, now you're again at a physical disadvantage, have lost the element of surprise, and he's super pissed. In a self-defense scenario, you have to assume the worst, that he's armed or that you won't get help, etc.

Since charges weren't pressed, I suppose it's possible that cop was just ignorant or fucking with you.

I'd like to make some sort of joke here about CA being liberal and criminals having a right to do their jobs without risk of physical injury but I'm not sure I've had enough coffee yet to pull it off.
That might be it, but honestly I don't think there was any use going in the building.  The was a few students (none that came out to help) and one older cafeteria lady.  Yea, that would have been helpful.  Eyeroll.  I actually ran to the on campus cop station.  Well, sort of, the cafeteria lady had called the cops so I met them half way.  It also could have been that the cop was cringing himself, I don't think some guys like that kind of damage no matter what the guy has done.

Villanelle

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2014, 07:17:17 AM »
That said, as a woman on a bicycle, you're going to get men yelling crap at you. Once I was on my bike and I got cat called by a couple of men on a freaking cell phone tower. Its ridiculous. I'm older, wiser and fed up with that sort of crap now, but it definitely used to unnerve me when I was younger.

I'm not a man, but I get the feeling that men are less likely to get yelled at (not that it doesn't happen). I'm sure they get the typical "you're not a car" sort of thing, but a woman on a bike is going to get that, plus "hey, baby, I'll go where you're going" and such.

So, I guess I'm trying to say that I'm not sure if its once in a lifetime or not. Sometimes you just have get on your bike and ride because that's how you want to live your life.

I think this is well-put.

Looked at in terms of mustachianism, yes, the stock market might crash for the first 10 years of your retirement, breaking the 4% rule we've been relying on. Is that small risk worth staying in your job forever?

I will also say my experience and observation has been that the younger the woman is, the more shit she gets from men. So, to the OP, your experiences now will probably be quite different from when you were a teenager.

Pet peeve time. My understanding, from the one time I looked up the numbers (and I'm fine with being corrected), is that women are not actually more likely to be victims of violent crime than men. Indeed, once we start comparing crimes outside the home committed by strangers, women are far less likely to be victims. Now, granted, this might be because women live less risky lives. But we should ask ourselves, the next time we base a decision on the idea that the world is a dangerous place for women, where we got that idea from. Odds are it's from the news media blowing the stories of a few photogenic females out of proportion.

The other thing I've noticed is that women assign too much weight to potential violence. I fully understand that being cat-called is unpleasant, but it's very different from being attacked and I really have very little patience with women who conflate not feeling safe with actually not being safe. Someone I know was commenting on that woman-walks-through-nyc-for-ten-hours video. I thought that video was interesting and made a good point about a challenge women face. But this person said it backed up their paranoid feeling about being out in public in the city. And I'm like, how in god's name did you get from A to B there? The woman walks through nyc for 10 hours, seemingly unaccompanied, and despite numerous catcalling and creepster moves, nothing bad physically happens to her. I interpreted that as proof catcalling does not equal danger.

men never, ever understand this concept no matter how many times you explain it to them.

Please do NOT, however, continue to denigrate an entire gender just because you think your ideas are the only ones that are correct or worthy.  Shame on you.  How would you feel if I wrote "Most women are just weaklings who will never assume responsibility for their own safety"?  Not cool, right?  See the parallel yet?

You can learn to recognize and respond appropriately to dangerous situations.  You can also learn to curtail your own sexism before spewing it all over the internet.  I suggest you start with the latter.

For what it's worth, I didn't interpret this at all as you did and I'm curious why you did. I didn't at all read it as a put down or that she felt that your contribution wasn't welcome. Maybe the difference is I read the two paragraphs as separate thoughts. I didn't think she was using the second one to justify her disagreement with you in the first.

And I don't think it's denigrating to suggest we can't know another's experience entirely. I wouldn't find it sexist for a guy to say women can't understand what it's like to be a guy. I once startled a woman really badly late at night. It was cold so I was wearing a big coat with the hood up and she was distracted by her phone and didn't notice me til I was almost on top of her.  I thought the experience was funny and interesting. I wouldn't conclude from that that I have a man's understanding of an entire lifetime of women in isolated situations perceiving you as a threat. Maybe I'm giving TrMama the benefit of the doubt that that was the type of idea she was trying to get across and there might have been a better way to put it.

I agree with much of your post.  But I disagree that nothing bad happened to that woman.  Catcalling is, in and of itself, bad.  It's disrespectful and it makes another human being feel uncomfortable and afraid.  That's enough to qualify it as bad, no?  It's pretty dismissive to suggest that just because she was not physically attacked it was "nothing bad".  If I sit on a corner and hurl racist vitriol at passers by, is that "nothing bad"?

And I agree that there's nothing degenerating about saying that someone can't know another's experience.  Is it "spewing sexism" to say that I can never know what it feels like to receive a blow job?

sheepstache

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2014, 03:19:41 PM »


The other thing I've noticed is that women assign too much weight to potential violence. I fully understand that being cat-called is unpleasant, but it's very different from being attacked and I really have very little patience with women who conflate not feeling safe with actually not being safe. Someone I know was commenting on that woman-walks-through-nyc-for-ten-hours video. I thought that video was interesting and made a good point about a challenge women face. But this person said it backed up their paranoid feeling about being out in public in the city. And I'm like, how in god's name did you get from A to B there? The woman walks through nyc for 10 hours, seemingly unaccompanied, and despite numerous catcalling and creepster moves, nothing bad physically happens to her. I interpreted that as proof catcalling does not equal danger.

men never, ever understand this concept no matter how many times you explain it to them.

Please do NOT, however, continue to denigrate an entire gender just because you think your ideas are the only ones that are correct or worthy.  Shame on you.  How would you feel if I wrote "Most women are just weaklings who will never assume responsibility for their own safety"?  Not cool, right?  See the parallel yet?

You can learn to recognize and respond appropriately to dangerous situations.  You can also learn to curtail your own sexism before spewing it all over the internet.  I suggest you start with the latter.

For what it's worth, I didn't interpret this at all as you did and I'm curious why you did. I didn't at all read it as a put down or that she felt that your contribution wasn't welcome. Maybe the difference is I read the two paragraphs as separate thoughts. I didn't think she was using the second one to justify her disagreement with you in the first.

And I don't think it's denigrating to suggest we can't know another's experience entirely. I wouldn't find it sexist for a guy to say women can't understand what it's like to be a guy. I once startled a woman really badly late at night. It was cold so I was wearing a big coat with the hood up and she was distracted by her phone and didn't notice me til I was almost on top of her.  I thought the experience was funny and interesting. I wouldn't conclude from that that I have a man's understanding of an entire lifetime of women in isolated situations perceiving you as a threat. Maybe I'm giving TrMama the benefit of the doubt that that was the type of idea she was trying to get across and there might have been a better way to put it.

I agree with much of your post.  But I disagree that nothing bad happened to that woman.  Catcalling is, in and of itself, bad.  It's disrespectful and it makes another human being feel uncomfortable and afraid.  That's enough to qualify it as bad, no?  It's pretty dismissive to suggest that just because she was not physically attacked it was "nothing bad".  If I sit on a corner and hurl racist vitriol at passers by, is that "nothing bad"?
[/quote]

But I didn't say "nothing bad" happened to her. I wrote "nothing physically bad." I mean, I understand that soundwaves entering her ears is a physical thing... but I thought it was clear what distinction I was making since I'd just allowed as how catcalling is very unpleasant to experience and that it's a real challenge women face.

Quote
And I agree that there's nothing degenerating about saying that someone can't know another's experience.  Is it "spewing sexism" to say that I can never know what it feels like to receive a blow job?

Again, I think we're making the same point?  I was saying I thought Sol's reaction was a bit off the mark. But last month I did go to battle with another forum member for saying most women seem terrible at remembering to turn the lights out :) so I can see how we all ought to be avoiding formats like [most][gender][something bad], or if you do say something like that, to explicate your meaning a bit.

Villanelle

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Re: Safety Question: I'm rage-buying a bike but...
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2014, 03:23:13 PM »
I totally missed the word "physically".  Sorry!

As for the second, I was agreeing with you, and disagreeing with the person you quoted.