Author Topic: Running shoes  (Read 31884 times)

igthebold

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Running shoes
« on: August 20, 2012, 02:16:10 PM »
I've seen running shoes mentioned in passing, but I'm curious what others here have found. Running attracts me because it's a fairly minimal sport. I'm also trying to do a style (chi running) that reduces wear and tear on my body, and as such, thick, padded running shoes aren't the thing.

Anybody else do a minimal style of running? What kind of shoes do you use? My ideal shoe would cost $50 or less and last a long time.

I just can't stomach being forced to buy a $100 pair of shoes every few months. :P

jpo

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2012, 02:21:19 PM »
Guy who sits next to me at work is a pretty consistent runner, has run multiple marathons, etc. I believe he runs in Vibram Five Fingers, not sure which model.

sideways8

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2012, 02:32:11 PM »
I just got a pair of minimalist running shoes by J-41. I'd never hear of them until I bought them haha! Previously, I had been using cheap canvas shoes from Target because they had very thin soles. However, I've already gone through three pairs this summer so I finally got some real running shoes. The pair I got was $65 on sale and are pretty comfy. I've only had a chance to do a couple of test walks but I'll be running in them this week!

Back when I was in high school, I had a pair of Adidas (also with thin soles) that lasted two or three years, which included one season of track and one season of cross country.

I've never heard of chi running... I think I'll have to look into that!

tannybrown

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 02:45:22 PM »
I was hiking a while back and met a guy doing it barefoot.  He moved a little slower but said it was no big deal, and insisted it was better for him than using shoes.  Maybe the same is true for running?

grantmeaname

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 03:29:11 PM »
I do most of my recreation and all of my puttering around town barefoot. If you have a nice metro park, high school campus, or golf course near you and you can do your first few weeks barefoot on nice grass, it's a super-easy transition. Even if you don't, the transition was easy enough for me. Retraining your muscles to run barefoot is a billion times harder than dealing with slight discomfort on the soles of your feet, so if you can run in Five Fingers, you can run in nothing.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 03:32:16 PM »
Well barefoot running seems to be on the rise. However, the scientific community is divided, I had read an article about the whole thing but can't find it, I found a smaller and similar one. In any case, I am not a runner by any sense, I just exercise. I have however found Brooks Ghost-5 to be one of the most confortable running shoes I have ever worn.

Russ

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2012, 03:53:49 PM »
No shoes are the best shoes! Just make sure you land on the balls of your feel and not the heels, and be bouncy - I like to think of my foot as a spring and not a lever, if that makes any sense. Every spring (it's too cold where I live to run barefoot through the winter and I don't care enough to shell out for a pair of waterproof five-fingers) I start out doing a half mile or so at a time for a week or two to build up my foot muscles. It's pretty cool actually, I drop half a shoe size over the summer from my new foot muscles raising up my arch. When you're comfortable with that, gradually increase mileage as the soles of your feet get used to the abrasion of running on asphalt or concrete. By late April / early May I can do 3 or 4 miles without a problem and glass and rocks don't hurt anymore. Really the only thing you have to worry about is landing on your heels. That'll mess you up real quick. Besides that, just go out, run as much as you feel like, and have fun!

Russ

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 04:00:45 PM »
You may also want to look into making yourself a pair of huaraches. they're basically just a piece of leather or rubber you tie to the soles of your feet, like a fancy lightweight running sandal. I don't have time to find a link right now but I'm sure there are several Instructables on the topic.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 04:31:00 PM »
No shoes are the best shoes! Just make sure you land on the balls of your feel and not the heels, and be bouncy - I like to think of my foot as a spring and not a lever, if that makes any sense.
I second this! I saw a man running last week in those 5-fingered-y-weird-y shoes and he was landing heel first with each step. OUCH! I winced just listening to the thud.

I just wear joggers, while jogging. Aptly named, huh? ;)

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 04:47:32 PM »
I did the Vibram Five Fingers thing for awhile in 08 and 09.

If that's not your thing (it isn't for me, anymore), go to your local sporting goods store when they have a sale, grab some running shoes.  You should be able to score a pair for $20 or less that work just fine.
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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 07:41:19 PM »
Google invisible shoes. I bought a kit and made a pair for $20. I do have kid sized feet though... To be more mustachian, there are instructions out there for running sandals made out of old car floor mats. I suppose straight up barefoot would be the most mustachian, but glass hurts and bees hang out in the dirt.

the fixer

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 08:30:35 PM »
I also do minimalist running. I started last winter using a pair of neoprene dive booties that worked excellent in low temperature. I've also built my own huaraches using the rubber kneepads of an old wetsuit. if you're creative you can make your own from materials around the house and spend no money doing it.

Since barefoot running is the current fad it's getting a little more trumpeted up than it should be. One of the most important reasons we wear shoes medically is to prevent parasites. If you live in a tropical/subtropical area where this is a problem (the southeast US) going barefoot is NOT a good idea. And I second the bee problem; I like gardening and mowing the lawn barefoot (with a reel mower of course!) but one time I got stung by something on the bottom of my foot. It's not a huge deal every now and then, but the problem is quite easy to prevent.

Russ

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2012, 08:51:36 PM »
Ah yes I forgot about the parasites. Hookworm, if I remember correctly. They aren't a problem where I'm from unless you go by where all the geese live. I just avoid that area, but use your own good judgement on this one. It's probably the most legitimate argument against barefooting.

bogart

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 09:04:06 PM »
... One of the most important reasons we wear shoes medically is to prevent parasites. If you live in a tropical/subtropical area where this is a problem (the southeast US) going barefoot is NOT a good idea. ...

Per the CDC, "Ascaris, hookworm, and whipworm are known as soil-transmitted helminths (parasitic worms). Together, they account for a major burden of disease worldwide. Ascariasis is now uncommon in the United States." "Hookworm was widespread in the southeastern United States until the early 20th century but is now nearly eliminated." (see http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/sth/index.html)

I couldn't find CDC stats on whipworm, but "Prevalence of whipworm infestation is less than 0.1%, although adequate studies are quite outdated.[1] " -- http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1000631-overview#a0199

I'm not a barefoot runner, but the risk of parasite transmission in the US seems to me a pretty minimal concern.

igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2012, 06:51:51 AM »
Thanks for the replies everyone. The huaraches are especially intriguing. I'll have to play with that.

If the factoid I heard was correct, then NC has the largest number of different varieties of fungus of all the lower 48. I'm guessing conditions like that also benefit parasites. I like the idea of protecting the sole without exposing the skin to city conditions.

I also like not spending $70 on a pair of minimal running shoes. :P

sideways8

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2012, 07:06:28 AM »
$70 is not very minimal! Haha this info came a little bit late for me ><

igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2012, 07:15:32 AM »
$70 is not very minimal! Haha this info came a little bit late for me ><

Hence my discomfort. :)

sideways8

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2012, 08:04:55 AM »
I suppose as long as I learn my lesson the $65 I spent was not in vain! If people could stop using the ground as a broken glass disposal area, I'd just go without shoes like I did when I was a kid!

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2012, 08:16:03 AM »
I am sure that running barefoot is the best thing possible, but I live in NYC, and the learning curve for this was just too steep for me.  I also cringed at the price of running shoes, knowing that I was paying for Brand, not the stuff of the shoe.

A friend invited me to a website called "The Clymb", which sells deeply discounted excercise gear, and I got my running shoes for $35. It is an invitation only site, and it is mustachian in the prices, but not in the mindset of "buy gear now, it is on sale!"  You have to be disciplined and only buy what you really need now.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2012, 09:20:55 AM »
I went to a store several years ago and found a pair of very light running shoes.  This was right around the time the barefoot running stuff started taking off (and I had just read the book Born to Run).  I had started getting a tiny bit of knee pain when running so I thought I'd try something lighter and with less support.

The shoes worked great (just went to check and they are New Balance 662.  The sole says Acteva Ultralite on them).

Anyway, they were about $40 (on sale) and have served me very well for all sorts of things.  Here's a link: http://www.jcpenney.com/dotcom//new-balance-662-womens-athletic-shoes/prod.jump?ppId=1c13604&catId=cat100240063&deptId=dept20000013&selectedLotId=6106345&selectedSKUId=61063450059&navState=navState-:catId-cat100240063:subcatId-:subcatZone-false:N-100240063:Ns-:Nao-504:ps-24:pn-22:Ntt-:Nf-:action-pagination&topDim=null&topDimvalue=null&currentDim=null&currentDimVal=null&searchCount=1239&sortType=Featured

(sorry for the ridiculously long link)

I found that the Puma shoes didn't fit me properly and that the Nike Free (at the time) had more arch support than the ultralite ones.

I love them and have been running in them a while and never had any issues.  I guess my point is that you can use the concepts of barefoot running but can get a shoe that has no affiliation to it.  :)   

« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 09:23:02 AM by Mrs MM »

igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2012, 09:52:03 AM »
I love them and have been running in them a while and never had any issues.  I guess my point is that you can use the concepts of barefoot running but can get a shoe that has no affiliation to it.  :)

I totally agree, and thanks for the recommendation. I've been running on some cheapo shoes in a lower impact style, but they're terrible, the soles are wearing down, and they aren't evenly balanced any more. I love the idea of getting or making something that will last for years.

I'm about to fire ahead on an order of the Invisible Shoes. I'll report back after a few weeks if anyone is interested.

the fixer

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2012, 09:53:57 AM »
I love them and have been running in them a while and never had any issues.  I guess my point is that you can use the concepts of barefoot running but can get a shoe that has no affiliation to it.  :)

This is quite true! My girlfriend runs in some basic flats she got at Target or Payless or something for about $30. The key is to find (or make) a shoe with a very narrow sole, no heel drop, and a lot of flex.

I think the message of Born to Run was that humans are, literally, born to run. We don't need any fancy gear to do it; in fact it's one of the very few sports a human can do with absolutely no equipment. Because of that it should be the quintessential minimalist and anti-consumerist sport, yet we have running shoe companies convincing us that we have to pay $100+ every 3-6 months on super fancy engineered shoes.

I think this message got warped by the consumer mindset into "I need to buy FiveFingers!" so now we have the exact same shoe companies telling us we have to spend $100+ on dorky-looking or "minimalist" shoes instead.

I just got back from a 5-mi run in my wetsuit-kneepad huaraches. It's so much more fun to free your feet and feel the ground beneath you! And obviously from my choice of footwear I don't have a problem with looking like a dork while I'm running, but if I were to spend $100 on running shoes I had better look like a king!

the fixer

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2012, 10:01:30 AM »
I've been running on some cheapo shoes in a lower impact style, but they're terrible, the soles are wearing down, and they aren't evenly balanced any more. I love the idea of getting or making something that will last for years.

This can be a problem with cheap and DIY shoes, and I'm having it now with my huaraches. The rubber originally was 2mm thick, but it's worn extremely thin under the front part of my foot after about 4 months of use. I tried rubber cementing a patch made of bike innertube to reinforce it but that started peeling off around mile 3. I might have to give up on them and find new sole material. I think my next attempt will be with a Segway innertube if I can get one from my job.

Of course I could just order a sheet of Vibram Cherry, but it's more of a challenge to see if I can do it at no cost.

igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2012, 10:38:04 AM »
My wife found another option, but I opted not to pursue it: http://www.instructables.com/id/Barefoot-Running-Plasti-Socks/

Summary: coat the bottom of your socks with a layer of plastic.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2012, 01:37:13 PM »
I tried rubber cementing a patch made of bike innertube to reinforce it but that started peeling off around mile 3.

I've had fabulous success in general with using super glue (the cheap stuff, not the brand name) to reattach soles to all sorts of shoes.  Rubber cement I wouldn't expect to hold.  Your choice of adhesive may be the problem, and if so, that's easy and cheap to solve.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2012, 02:08:27 PM »
No shoes are the best shoes! Just make sure you land on the balls of your feel and not the heels, and be bouncy - I like to think of my foot as a spring and not a lever, if that makes any sense.
I second this! I saw a man running last week in those 5-fingered-y-weird-y shoes and he was landing heel first with each step. OUCH! I winced just listening to the thud.

I just wear joggers, while jogging. Aptly named, huh? ;)

How do you run without heels hitting first and instead land on the balls of feet?  Seems like it take reprogramming the brain/motion

grantmeaname

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2012, 02:18:25 PM »
It's pretty natural, actually (intuitive-feeling, not "this is the one right way to exercise because nature says so"). If you're barefoot, when you speed up from a walking speed to a running speed, your weight shifts forward, and then you land on the front instead of the back of your foot. That avoids you hitting your heels really hard without a big cushion deforming under them each step, and also means you have an incentive not to go back to heel-striking form when running barefoot. Heel-striking barefoot hurts.

It's way different mechanically because each foot's arch compresses and decompresses with each stride, and the muscles in your legs have to coordinate with that to allow it. Meanwhile, your stride will shorten and you'll take more, shorter steps. That's what I was alluding to above: if you're a shod runner, you have to start running barefoot gradually to avoid injury, because the muscular changes are so dramatic. It's tempting to go back to heel-striking when you get tired (especially if you are running in an ultimate game or something vaguely competitive like that), but you'll only make that mistake once or twice.

In my opinion the mechanical changes are about fifty times harder than letting your soles toughen up.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2012, 02:22:40 PM »
Thanks.  I'll have to focus on it more than you suggest because everytime I run my heels hit first and hard, no matter how fast or slow I am going.  Also note that I am not a regular runner so maybe I just need to do it more.


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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2012, 03:51:30 PM »
Yas well as avoiding heel-striking, you can also aim to run quietly. If you're thinking about how much sound you're making and trying to minimise that, you're more likely to run with less of that thudding impact. If that makes sense to anyone else?

Russ

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2012, 05:00:46 PM »
How do you run without heels hitting first and instead land on the balls of feet?  Seems like it take reprogramming the brain/motion

Try jogging in place. Notice how you're bouncing from side to side on the balls of your feet? Now just keep doing that, while moving forward.

A lot of people also take too long of strides when they run with shoes. To compensate, they do 2 things: land on their heels (because you literally can't flex your ankle enough to put your toes down first when you're stretched out that far) and hunch over (to keep their center of gravity over their feet, which are way far out in front of them). When you run barefoot, you'll want to make sure you stand up straight, which forces you to take shorter strides to keep your feet underneath you, which allows you to land on the ball of your foot pretty naturally. It feels strange at first, but it will help a lot with staying "light on your feet" and not striking too hard. Trying to run quietly, as Nudelkopf said, is another good way to think about it.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2012, 06:41:45 PM »
Fatass here. I did Couch to 5k, and became a fatass who could run a 5k, which I did times a week for a few months. (Some day I'll get back into it!)

Cheap sneakers would feel OK for a week or so, but I started to get mysterious foot pain that would persist even on days when I wasn't running.  It felt quite wrong. Eventually I splurged on a pair of running shoes designed for heavier runners (Mizuno Wave Inspire 7), and all the pain disappeared in a week.

They're pricey at $100, but I'm glad I bought them - it made a world of difference. Anyways, the takeaway is, don't tolerate painful running shoes in the name of frugality. I did, and I regret it.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2012, 10:47:07 PM »
Lots of good advice here. I'm a fan of lightweight, flat running shoes myself. Whatever type of shoe you choose, though, the important (and mustachian) thing to remember is that you don't need to replace your shoes every 250 miles, which is actually what some shoe companies and stores will tell you.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2012, 07:11:55 AM »
The advice to run in place or quietly makes sense to me...nice comparison that will help me.  thanks

igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2012, 08:53:47 AM »
If you check out the ChiRunning book from the library, it'll take you through a bunch of exercises that'll get you running in a more barefoot style (the differences between ChiRunning and barefoot seem subtle to me). Biggest difference, as has been explained already, is that you land with your feet below your body and your knees bent. Your steps are shorter, so your cadence wil be a lot faster. After doing it for months I find it comfortable, but I still have to think about technique so I don't end up favoring a side, hunching up my arms, or whatever.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2012, 06:08:58 PM »
I've run minimalist, mostly accidentally, for about 5 years now.  I bought a pair of what I now think were prototype minimalist shoes or strange racing flats at DSW for $19.99 and only read Born to Run (which I love) later.  Minimalist shoes last a lot longer than regular running shoes--one pair can go for 3 years pretty easily.  I usually get my shoes at Marshalls/TJ Maxx on the sale rack.

Anyone have good hacks on cheap race entry?  I love racing.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2012, 07:50:02 PM »
I did Couch to 5k, and became a fatass who could run a 5k, which I did times a week for a few months.

Me too.  I didn't get back into it and was struggling to find a good way to exercise (frugally!) that fit with other constraints and preferences I hold (most relating to time, plus not wanting to pay to buy either equipment or a membership to, well, anything).  Then I found Doctor Mama's blog posts on jogging (starting here:  http://doctormama.blogspot.com/2006/05/listen-up-maggots.html ) and darned if I didn't ... start running.  Her approach (concise summary:  run slowly!  No, no, slower than that!) is working well for me, which considering I basically couldn't stand couch to 5k (something that plenty of other previous non-runners adore) is kind of amazing.

Just in case you're looking for an alternative approach that will probably produce similar results (cheap, easy, unlikely to cause injury, and leading to reasonable fitness).

igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2012, 06:25:42 AM »
Then I found Doctor Mama's blog posts on jogging (starting here:  http://doctormama.blogspot.com/2006/05/listen-up-maggots.html ) and darned if I didn't ... start running.

That's great! It's amazing how much of it is psychology; just getting out there and doing it is the hardest part. We're all so different that it takes different techniques to convince us at a low enough level to get up and do it.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2012, 09:56:42 AM »
Me too.  I didn't get back into it and was struggling to find a good way to exercise (frugally!) that fit with other constraints and preferences I hold (most relating to time, plus not wanting to pay to buy either equipment or a membership to, well, anything).  Then I found Doctor Mama's blog posts on jogging (starting here:  http://doctormama.blogspot.com/2006/05/listen-up-maggots.html ) and darned if I didn't ... start running.  Her approach (concise summary:  run slowly!  No, no, slower than that!) is working well for me, which considering I basically couldn't stand couch to 5k (something that plenty of other previous non-runners adore) is kind of amazing.

Just in case you're looking for an alternative approach that will probably produce similar results (cheap, easy, unlikely to cause injury, and leading to reasonable fitness).

Thanks for the link! I like her style. Maybe this will be the kick I need to try running again.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2012, 02:19:16 PM »
If you check out the ChiRunning book from the library, it'll take you through a bunch of exercises that'll get you running in a more barefoot style (the differences between ChiRunning and barefoot seem subtle to me). Biggest difference, as has been explained already, is that you land with your feet below your body and your knees bent. Your steps are shorter, so your cadence wil be a lot faster. After doing it for months I find it comfortable, but I still have to think about technique so I don't end up favoring a side, hunching up my arms, or whatever.

+1 For the ChiRunning book! Great tips on posture, warm-ups, diet, etc.

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2012, 02:25:42 PM »
Then I found Doctor Mama's blog posts on jogging (starting here:  http://doctormama.blogspot.com/2006/05/listen-up-maggots.html ) and darned if I didn't ... start running. 

One question on that post.. she notes every other day, not every day.

Why is that so vital?

I understand rest time, but if you go jogging, say, every week day (5x/week), for 20-30 minutes.. won't you have enough rest time the whole rest of the day and weekend?

How is it different if you exercise for 2 hours every other day, or an hour once per day?  How about a half hour once/day?  At some point it's gotta be fine to go once/day, right?
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igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2012, 04:03:27 PM »
How is it different if you exercise for 2 hours every other day, or an hour once per day?  How about a half hour once/day?  At some point it's gotta be fine to go once/day, right?

I think some people do, but it's not usually full-bore every day.

If my experience is commonly shared, then when you first get started there will be lactic acid issues, and you'll hate walking the day after, let alone running. Reinforcing the association probably works against you, psychologically.

Russ

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2012, 05:59:40 PM »
One question on that post.. she notes every other day, not every day.

Why is that so vital?

It's important for the same reason that she says to neither measure yourself by speed nor distance, but by time. Let's start by looking at a world-class runner. His/her event is the 10k, which takes a little under a half hour. That runner may train every day, but you'd better believe they don't run their PR time two days in a row. Whether they feel "good" or not, their body is not physically recovered enough. They may be able to run two fast-ish days in a row at 35 minutes pretty easily, but that's still not top speed. For DoctorMama's audience, that first slothstyle run is probably the first serious run they've done in a very long time. Whether it's fast by a trained athlete's standards is irrelevant; the new runner is very often going as fast as they can - setting a slow PR, but a PR nonetheless. Just like you wouldn't expect a world-class athlete to run their best time ever two days in a row, you can't expect a new runner to run their best time ever two days in a row. The difference is that a trained runner can do an "easy" run for their recovery day, whereas the new runner literally can't go any slower so they must either walk or do nothing at all. So they are advised to only run every other day. Both the slow and fast runner are putting forth the same amount of effort, for the same amount of time (note: effort is different from work. The fast runner is doing more work, but if both are going as fast as they can, it is the same amount of effort. This is called Perceived Rate of Exertion (PRE) in the exercise world). Make sense?

The "measure yourself against others by speed/distance" trap is a pretty easy and common one to fall into, actually. It's clear to see that the new runner going as slow as they can for 1/2 hour probably shouldn't try to match the elite athlete's 10k run. But if you're reasonably fit, you might say to yourself "I'll do the same 10k, as fast as I can, even though I'm slower. If the distance is good for them, it's good for me". The problem here is that, since you're slower, you'll be putting out the same effort for a longer amount of time. This is actually more training stress than the elite athlete is taking, and you'll end up overtrained. The key is to go by effort and time, and not speed or distance. As the great Greg LeMond said, "It never gets easier, you just go faster"
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 06:03:25 PM by Russ »

TLV

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2012, 08:37:39 PM »
+1 to starting out really slow, slower than walking, and every other day for your distance runs. When I joined the track team as a high school freshman, that's how they started us out - the coach literally walked along with us the first half-mile to make sure we didn't go too fast. We didn't just rest on the in-between days, though - usually we'd have a short sprint-type workout, sometimes mixed into a game of flag football or ultimate.

Later years in high school we typically ran every day, usually twice a day (just a 15-20 minute warmup for one of the runs), but it was almost never the same workout two days in a row - we'd mix long runs, pace work, sprints, and recovery runs in depending on the point in the season.

reverend

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2012, 11:41:26 AM »
Interesting discussion. I've read the same thing that it's not natural to land hard on your heels but one should land on the ball of the feet.  It's more of an issue for me with bad knees - possibly for this very reason (not that I'm really a runner, but even walking!).

Another issue that I've seen more about in the press lately is to not stretch prior to a workout, which can injure muscles and tendons. Intuitive to some, but apparently a lot of coaches or trainers have touted it as a "must do" prior to any workout.  heh

Nudelkopf

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2012, 05:01:22 PM »
Hmmm, whoops! I guess I never stretch while cold. At least, I avoid static stretches before I'm warmed up. I'll have to read more about that.

bogart

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2012, 10:30:58 PM »
One question on that post.. she notes every other day, not every day.

Why is that so vital?

I'm not really in a position to answer.  For me, her system is one that allows me to run, and to more-or-less enjoy running, or at least, not dis-enjoy running, and thereby to get noticeably more exercise than I was getting prior to starting what she recommends.  I don't know that it is the "best" system and it's clearly not the only such one (the other one that I know of being couch-to-5k), but it's the one that's worked best for me.  Her take, and I have been trying to deploy this, is that it's better to do something else on the "off" days.  Overall for now, as I've gone from running 0 days per week to running ~3.5 days per week, my take is that this is a good system for me.

  At some point it's gotta be fine to go once/day, right?

Clearly lots of folks do.  I'm not really interested in doing so though I will say I see the every-other-day thing as a "guideline" not a "rule."  Thus far, and I'm all of about a month into this, so there aren't many data to examine, I haven't run two days in a row, but I may this week as for scheduling reasons it may work out better for me to either double-up (across two adjacent days) or skip a day (i.e. space it out to 3), and I figure there's no harm in trying the adjacent day thing and seeing how I react to it.

Overall, my sense is that she's trying to present a good way to use running as a steady and valuable way to exercise (more or less across the entire life span and regardless of how unfit you are) while avoiding injury, annoyance, etc., and that the every-other-day plan is a good one for that context.  Which is pretty much how I want to use it, so I'm not tempted to push it too far, so far.

igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2012, 08:01:57 AM »
Following up on the invisible shoes, now called Xero, or something like that. After about 23 miles in them I can say I like them! My feet are still adjusting, but I'm back up to about 5 miles (down from 12 with regular shoes) and I really enjoy it. My schedule has become somewhat erratic, since I'm letting my feet tell me whether I should run again, but otherwise I'm very happy with them.

At this point I don't see any reason to buy anything more expensive (these were $25). Plus, now I don't have to buy fancy socks. Winter will be interesting, but I'll get there when I get there.

velocistar237

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2012, 11:13:13 AM »
igthebold, do you run on pavement? A couple years ago, I tried running to work on paved sidewalks, and I injured my toe while wearing running flats. I like the idea of huaraches, but I don't want to hurt myself.

Also, have people looked at you funny when you've worn them?

igthebold

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2012, 11:44:58 AM »
igthebold, do you run on pavement? A couple years ago, I tried running to work on paved sidewalks, and I injured my toe while wearing running flats. I like the idea of huaraches, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My surfaces, in order of preference:
- mown grass
- asphalt
- sidewalk

One of the big things I like about the barefoot style is that you start off a lot more sensitive, so it's easier to "listen" to your body. As such, I find myself less prone to injury on concrete than I was in shoes. But I've only been doing it for 23 miles. We'll see a few months down the road.


Also, have people looked at you funny when you've worn them?

I don't really pay attention to people.. I'm too busy listening to the latest Brandon Sanderson novel and/or paying attention to my form. However, I have received comments from friends who've seen me running, usually of the bemused, friendly mocking variety. So yeah, they are noticeable.

Melissa

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Re: Running shoes
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2012, 03:47:37 PM »
Running every other day allows the muscles to recover.  Running causes micro-tears that need at least 48 hours to repair themselves.  In the process they become a little stronger each time.  Also, running each day is not going to make you faster.  You have to run faster to get faster, but your body can't take that abuse on a regular basis.

My husband and I follow the "Run Less, Run Faster" program by Bill Pierce, Scott Murr, and Ray Moss.  Their program call lfor running only three days a week and each run is different.  One run is long and the pace is slower.  Another is intervals (400, 800, 1200, or 1600m).  The last run is a lactate run-this one is shorter but you are pushing yourself harder.  We use this program to improve race times and I am starting to utilize the program with my middle school cross country team.  It helps prevent overuse injuries that are commonly seen in runners.