Author Topic: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)  (Read 11199 times)

SaintM

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Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« on: January 24, 2015, 05:32:11 PM »
I'm curious how the MMM community views the works of Robert Kiyosaki, of Rich Dad, Poor Dad fame.

His central points are largely definitions:
- An asset is something that puts cash into your pocket (rental property, dividend-paying stocks, businesses)
- A liability is something that takes money out of your pocket (your house, car, stuff in your house)
- Wealth is a unit of time: how long your property will fund your liabilities and lifestyle choices
The goal to achieving infinite wealth is to build a stable of assets that generate enough cashflow to pay for your life.

He despises saving money in bank accounts, paying off rental property and business debt, and devotes little time to convincing the reader to pare down his or her lifestyle.  Instead, he focuses on generating more income.

Spork

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2015, 05:39:28 PM »
This guy?

I read Rich Dad a long time ago... probably about whenever it came out in paperback.  I am sure there are concepts in there that are generally applicable.  But I think he is a guy that makes money trying to sell symposiums on how to make money.  That alone is a bit of a turn off.

SaintM

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2015, 05:45:32 PM »
Not the guy personally, but his ideas.

He gives PDFs of his books away on his website.

Spondulix

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2015, 06:28:09 PM »
I also read it a long time ago... apparently it didn't stick with me much.

What you describe in your first post sounds like accounting for a business, more or less. I think that's good advice, and I'm surprised that more people don't look at it that way. But, the idea that more money will solve the problem is limited advice, IMO. Wasn't RDPD in sales? If you're working on commission, the solution to financial problems might be as simple as to "sell more". I see personal finance as more like the whole business, and not just the salesman. Imagine you're a CEO of a public traded company during a recession. People aren't spending money, so "sell more" just isn't an option. How do you maintain (or raise) your stock price while sales/income are stagnant? You find other areas to trim the fat. It could be a matter of lowering expenses, re-evaluating the cost of your product, evaluating market demand of your product/services (and remove unprofitable ones), taking people off payroll, etc.

Comparing that to personal finance, I think it's no different from cutting spending, making a teenager get a job to pay for their own car, downsizing a house, evaluating if you're getting paid what your skills are worth, finding ways to increase productivity (or gain time) but make the same amount money, or evaluating other job options. In the end, it's all about net worth, and there's a lot of different ways to get there.

I think MMM focuses on decreasing costs (vs increasing income) because he was earning a fairly high income when he started. There's a lot of resources out there about how to bring in more, but not near as much about being efficient with what you have.

deborah

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2015, 06:40:15 PM »
Rich Dad Poor Dad gives a lot of bad advice, as well as being untruthful.

If you only take the good advice from it, you are better off reading The Millionaire Next Door - which has everything Rich Dad Poor Dad does (and more) without the bad advice.

SaintM

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2015, 08:10:41 PM »
I've read Millionaire Next Door, too.  Any others you suggest?

deborah

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 08:48:12 PM »
There are a lot of suggestions in the book sub-forum - it is comparatively small, so you should easily find a topic you like there - complete with book recommendations.

RichWard

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2015, 09:18:57 PM »
I read Rich Dad Poor Dad when I was 15, one of the first business type books I read.

I give it credit for getting me interested on the topic, but I don't remember it giving any real, substantial advice. Basically, investing is good is the only message I remember from it now.

I'd recommend it to high school aged individuals just to get their feet wet, but I don't recall any specific action items in the book.

Overall, I'm glad it was an easy enough read for a 15 year old to get through it, but now that I'm older I view him as a preaching/scammy type character.

brandino29

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2015, 11:08:21 PM »
A quick forum search will yield a lot of past discussions on the guy.  My recollection of the general sense of him here is he's full of it but there are certainly ideas worth taking. 

As for me it was one of the first books I read as I was starting down the financial path and it helped kick start my goal of being financially independent.  I reread it a couple of years ago out of curiosity and after having learned/read much more and was very underwhelmed with the actual nuts and bolts he provides (and the story itself is pretty lame and not believable). 

But, with that said, I think it's a lot like Dave Ramsey -- might not jibe with everyone but as long as it's getting more people to make an effort to improve their financial literacy, can't be all bad.

Kaminoge

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 04:57:31 AM »
Rich Dad, Poor Dad mainly made me feel sorry for his actual dad. I thought the basic premise was a bit of a dick move, he could have given the same information without having to drag his father into it.

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 07:34:45 AM »
I think it speaks to the entrepreneurial type. In the same way Ramsey reaches the serial debtor crowd.

I've always abhorred debt, but I appreciated seeing leverage from his perspective. I think that has made me a more rounded financial individual. I haven't started a small business, but I pick up a few side gigs. And I've changed my mind about paying off the house ahead of its 15 yr mortgage, in favor of putting that money into stocks.

Overall, mustachianism makes more sense to me (maximize pleasure, minimize expenditure.)

I don't need to die the richest; happy will be sufficient. 

iamadummy

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 07:38:29 AM »
and let us not forget his cash flow quadrant game.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 08:41:11 AM »
What about The Wealthy Barber? 

jgrafton

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 08:55:12 AM »
A Random Walk Down Wall Street by Burton G. Malkiel is one of my favorite investing books.  I just finished the 10th edition which covers the financial meltdown of 2008.  It contains a recipe for sound index investing and the fundamental theories behind why it works.

I read Rich Dad Poor Dad years ago and I remember liking it but I don't remember it containing much practical advice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Random_Walk_Down_Wall_Street

Rpesek6904

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2015, 09:27:30 AM »
The biggest concept from Robert Kiyosaki that stuck with me was the Employee/Self-Employed/Business Owner/Investor distinctions from "Cash Flow Quadrant." Basically, his goal for everyone is to get to get to "investor" status so you can make money with minimal effort. Also, the distinctions between the Employee/Self-Employed/Business Owner as ways of producing capital to become an investor. I've taken those thoughts to heart and attempted to become a business owner/investor within his definition of those terms. So, for me, he did have some useful ideas.

I have learned over time that his advice speaks to the more entrepreneurial. I think that can seem "scammy" to those who are simply not entrepreneurs by temperament. He's not perfect. But, I don't think he is so bad either.

frugaldrummer

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2015, 03:04:10 PM »
It's been a long time since I read his book, but I'd agree, his emphasis was on the difference between his real dad - a worker bee with a "good" job who didn't end up with much - and his "rich dad", who was an investor and entrepreneur.

I'd say where one weakness in his story lies - and where MMM picks up the slack - is that his real dad didn't HAVE to end up broke.  Even with his regular job, frugality and reasonably conservative saving and investing could have put his dad in a pretty good position WITHOUT the risk and volatility of entrepreneurial enterprise.

Also, his first book was written during a real estate boom - take some of that advice with a grain of salt, as overly-leveraged investors go bust in a big way when real estate goes bust.   

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2015, 03:42:17 PM »
Ugh.  Book is weakly thought -out and poorly written and very short. Big print to make it seem longer than its 150 or so pages.  I attended the free seminar around 1996? as a cheap data night, and bought the (inexpensive) book there.

This guy is all about the seminars / retaining his advisors, spreading the word, making money through some sort of pyramid / seminar scheme and pressure sales at this seminars.
 
NOT about decent financial, balanced advice that works for a whole life.   At best advice for suckas that buy into "get rich quick" schemes,  although that is not his direct message, the persons that respond to his books and entrepreneurial approach tend to be.

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2015, 03:49:11 PM »
Rich Dad, Poor Dad mainly made me feel sorry for his actual dad. I thought the basic premise was a bit of a dick move, he could have given the same information without having to drag his father into it.

I haven't read the book but I have always been turned off by the title.  I'm not one to frequently yell SEXISM but it made me think "what about rich moms? Why is it just about dads?"

Spork

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2015, 05:37:23 PM »
Rich Dad, Poor Dad mainly made me feel sorry for his actual dad. I thought the basic premise was a bit of a dick move, he could have given the same information without having to drag his father into it.

I haven't read the book but I have always been turned off by the title.  I'm not one to frequently yell SEXISM but it made me think "what about rich moms? Why is it just about dads?"

It is actually (or supposedly) about 2 actual men in his life: his actual dad (poor dad) and a guy that took him under his wing and was "father-like" (rich dad).  While I'm not a real fan, it isn't sexist.  It's just about 2 men in his life. 

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2015, 05:54:21 PM »
Regarding the man:  he bugs me.  I watched one of his 'webinars' out of curiosity after skimming through the book, and as many have said it appeals to the entrepenuer-mindset folks, but it seems like he's most interested in getting people to pay for his seminars and advice.  IMO he's a shameless self-promoter.

AS for the book, I'm going off memory here since it's been several years, but it was mostly about how to set yourself up to make money, and less about saving, investing, needing less crap, etc.  The whole vibe was "hey, it's important to make a six-figure salary to consider yourself successful, and here's how you do it!"
some good nuggets in there (if i remember correctly a core point was to surround yourself with talented, trustworthy people - good advice IMO) but not much attention paid to what could increase happiness and financial security.  It kind of assumed that if you make a lot of money then you will be financially secure.  As we all know, large income ≠ security and happiness.

Blonde Lawyer

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2015, 06:37:29 PM »
Rich Dad, Poor Dad mainly made me feel sorry for his actual dad. I thought the basic premise was a bit of a dick move, he could have given the same information without having to drag his father into it.

I haven't read the book but I have always been turned off by the title.  I'm not one to frequently yell SEXISM but it made me think "what about rich moms? Why is it just about dads?"

Ah, interesting! I thought it was "do you want to be a Rich Dad or a Poor Dad."  Good to know.
It is actually (or supposedly) about 2 actual men in his life: his actual dad (poor dad) and a guy that took him under his wing and was "father-like" (rich dad).  While I'm not a real fan, it isn't sexist.  It's just about 2 men in his life.

innerscorecard

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2015, 07:57:13 PM »
There is deservedly a lot to criticize with Kiyosaki, but his first book really is a great introduction to a different way of thinking for many people.

thurston howell iv

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad)
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2015, 06:29:24 AM »
^- I agree. Several years ago a friend of mine called me and told me about the book. I read it and liked it well enough. It's not the financial bible but it does sow some ideas... Things I had never really thought about. My friend really got into it and even purchased the cashflow game. It was interesting to see that the job a person had didn't matter as much as their expenditures and investments.

My main take-away from the books was "thinking like a poor person"- "looking good and going nowhere".   (I guess a slang term would be "hood-rich"- where you have no money for essentials or savings but you somehow find money for name brand clothes, a new car, a big tv. etc.)

That really stuck with me and I've striven to keep my expenses in check (besides student loans- that's another story)...

In fact, I just learned of one of these situations last night. The sister of a friend recently divorced. She has 4 kids, a $12 dollar an hour job and decided to buy a 2013 Camaro. $440 car payment and $300 month insurance. I have no idea how this is even possible to maintain.- Makes me ill to even think about it.

While R. Kiyosaki is not really any sort of actual adviser, his books did make a few points that got me thinking more about money and how it works.

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