Author Topic: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)  (Read 10538 times)

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« on: January 27, 2014, 02:36:34 PM »
I was laid off end of last year, prior to this I was saving heavily. I have enough money to last several years. I am so liquid because initially I was saving the money for a down payment on a house or to pay for MBA. I want to renew my lease, but part of the application process is to provide employer information. They may not allow me to renew the lease because I don't have a job - actually, i plan to not work consistently for the next 2-3 years and live off my savings. I'm going back to school.


Where do you live if you cannot rent an apartment without a job?

frugaldrummer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 655
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 02:42:13 PM »
Can't you just show them proof of your savings? 

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6379
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 02:42:29 PM »
What if you offered 6 months rent upfront? Would that be enough to put all fears to rest?

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 02:46:10 PM »
Can't you just show them proof of your savings? 

I also offered a guarantor, my parents, they said they won't accept it.

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 02:48:16 PM »
What if you offered 6 months rent upfront? Would that be enough to put all fears to rest?

Good idea, I'm going to try that, but I don't think so - my area is currently very trendy and I'm paying a really great price. They'd make more money if they got rid of me.

frugaldrummer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 655
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2014, 05:38:58 PM »
Ah, well, that's the problem then - they just want to be able to rent it to someone else for a higher rent, so they're looking for excuses.  I wonder if a tenants rights group could help?

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 06:24:33 PM »
Ah, well, that's the problem then - they just want to be able to rent it to someone else for a higher rent, so they're looking for excuses.  I wonder if a tenants rights group could help?

That's management companies. All of the places I've rented required you to make over a certain amount a year - otherwise they wouldn't even consider your application.

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4570
  • Age: 11
  • Location: USA
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 07:23:21 PM »
What about a co-signer? They must have something in place for students or people doing low-paid internships.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 07:25:20 AM »
Wait, have you told them you don't have a job?  If you just put down the same employer as last year I doubt they'll check.

curler

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 08:31:35 AM »
Most places I've dealt with have a procedure for dealing with retired people, who also don't have a job.  You may want to ask how they deal with them.

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 08:43:08 PM »
What about a co-signer? They must have something in place for students or people doing low-paid internships.

They said no to a guarantor.

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 08:44:09 PM »
Wait, have you told them you don't have a job?  If you just put down the same employer as last year I doubt they'll check.

I don't want to lie about something that is very easily checked.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27911
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 08:52:17 PM »
Sure, but did they even ask?  Most places, if you've always paid on time, let you renew without digging into your employment/credit/etc again.  You may be worried about nothing.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

wtjbatman

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Missouri
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 10:24:49 PM »
Wait, have you told them you don't have a job?  If you just put down the same employer as last year I doubt they'll check.

I don't want to lie about something that is very easily checked.

Exactly what arebelspy said. My experiences with signing new leases is just that. They show you the lease and you sign it. They don't do another background check or check references/job history.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8661
  • Registered member
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 12:14:12 AM »
Wait, have you told them you don't have a job?  If you just put down the same employer as last year I doubt they'll check.

I don't want to lie about something that is very easily checked.

Exactly what arebelspy said. My experiences with signing new leases is just that. They show you the lease and you sign it. They don't do another background check or check references/job history.

Right, the fact that you've been paying your rent (presumably) on time for the past X years should be reference enough to renew.

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 06:32:49 PM »
Sure, but did they even ask?  Most places, if you've always paid on time, let you renew without digging into your employment/credit/etc again.  You may be worried about nothing.

Yup, it's part of the application.

Russ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2213
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Boulder, CO
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 06:39:07 PM »
yeah I'm gonna say that if you have to submit a formal application to renew your lease, they're trying to get rid of you.

is there anything in your current lease regarding renewals that could help you?

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2014, 06:39:53 PM »
Wait, have you told them you don't have a job?  If you just put down the same employer as last year I doubt they'll check.

I don't want to lie about something that is very easily checked.

Exactly what arebelspy said. My experiences with signing new leases is just that. They show you the lease and you sign it. They don't do another background check or check references/job history.

Right, the fact that you've been paying your rent (presumably) on time for the past X years should be reference enough to renew.

If they find out I no longer work there, they won't sign the lease and I get kicked out.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 07:23:20 PM »
Fill it out but put the wrong number.   Either they won't call, or they will and they'll get back to you saying the number is wrong.  Then you'll know they checked.  Then you can say, "Huh, that's weird.  Well, actually, my employment situation has recently changed."  Then you can say you've moved into consulting work or something.  And ask what the procedure is for independent contractors. 

samburger

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2014, 09:51:46 AM »
Fill it out but put the wrong number.   Either they won't call, or they will and they'll get back to you saying the number is wrong.  Then you'll know they checked.  Then you can say, "Huh, that's weird.  Well, actually, my employment situation has recently changed."  Then you can say you've moved into consulting work or something.  And ask what the procedure is for independent contractors.

This is what I would do.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27911
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2014, 10:31:49 AM »
Yeah, I sure wouldn't. If a potential tenant filled out with old info and the wrong number, they're gone.

Not to mention it's unethical.

Be honest. If you have to move, you have to move.

Weird that you're having to do a full application again. Does sound like they want to get rid of you.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

huadpe

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 219
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2014, 10:35:46 AM »
If your location is accurate (NYC) you should talk to a landlord/tenant attorney.  NY has -extremely- strong tenant protection laws, and I doubt they'll be able to evict you as long as you keep current with your rent.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27911
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2014, 10:48:22 AM »
If your location is accurate (NYC) you should talk to a landlord/tenant attorney.  NY has -extremely- strong tenant protection laws, and I doubt they'll be able to evict you as long as you keep current with your rent.

They aren't evicting, they just aren't renewing the lease.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2014, 11:11:44 AM »
Yeah, I sure wouldn't. If a potential tenant filled out with old info and the wrong number, they're gone.

Eh, he's out either way if he can't think of anything else, so there's no risk.

If your location is accurate (NYC) you should talk to a landlord/tenant attorney.  NY has -extremely- strong tenant protection laws, and I doubt they'll be able to evict you as long as you keep current with your rent.
They aren't evicting, they just aren't renewing the lease.

Huadpe's right, though, in New York, where the law is heavily weighted towards tenants, that could be viewed as trying to kick the tenant out and he could probably get help from a tenants' advocacy group.  From the attorney general's website:
"New York City Human Rights Law prohibits housing discrimination based on: gender, citizenship status, partnership status, gender identity, lawful occupation, and lawful source of income (including public assistance or housing assistance, social security, supplemental security income, pensions, annuities, or unemployment benefits)."
If you have offered to make the payments in advance, it can be argued they are refusing to rent to you based on your employment status.  It's not a home run, but worth looking into.


arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27911
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2014, 11:48:36 AM »
Yeah, I sure wouldn't. If a potential tenant filled out with old info and the wrong number, they're gone.

Eh, he's out either way if he can't think of anything else, so there's no risk.

Not necessarily, they may rent to him if he explains the situation.

/shrug

Either way, I wouldn't do that personally.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

huadpe

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 219
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 11:51:17 AM »
It'll probably depend on the nature of the lease.  They would be able to get away with non-renewal if the quantum of his income is insufficient to cover the rent, regardless of its source, AND the apartment isn't rent regulated.  Rent regulated apartments have guaranteed renewal unless you don't pay the rent.  But NY landlord/tenant court is pretty hellish to the landlord, so they may be amenable if they get wind you're seeking legal action.  Talk to a lawyer first though, they'll know more than me.

All of that said, if it's an unregulated apartment, why don't they just jack up the rent?  If you're at the end of your lease and your current rent is below-market, why aren't they just jacking it up to market rate?  Could you even offer (if the 6 months advance isn't enough) to renew at like $50/month more than they're asking? 

Anyway, I wouldn't do the lying about your employer - sounds like it's too late anyway, you told them you lost the job.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2014, 12:28:34 PM »
Yeah, I sure wouldn't. If a potential tenant filled out with old info and the wrong number, they're gone.

Eh, he's out either way if he can't think of anything else, so there's no risk.

Not necessarily, they may rent to him if he explains the situation.

Well that's why I said "if he can't think of anything else" :)  It sounds like he's already offered rent up front and been rejected, so it sounds like time for last-ditch efforts.  On the other hand, having already talked to them about that, it might be too late to fly under the radar, they know something's up.  But the office may be big enough that the person he talked to isn't the person reviewing his paperwork.

My experience as a renter is that if an individual landlord (like ARS) is not being accommodating, there's a reason, and pushing won't get you anywhere (nor is it worth it anyway because you want both parties to be comfortable).  Management companies, however, are often just looking to have their t's crossed and i's dotted.  There are plenty of renters, so they can always get someone unremarkable who they don't have to spend any time thinking about.  (Come to think of it, they probably have insurance against renters skipping out such that their loss is covered provided they followed industry standard steps in screening tenants.)  So if you are a special case, your only defense is to seem like it would cost them more time to refuse you, for example, having a tenant's advocacy group breathing down their neck about whether they're really following the fair housing law.  But, that's a last resort, I would try to fly under the radar first. 

If the problem really is employment status, you are just going to have the same problem if you try to get a lease somewhere else, so you might as well do all you can to stick with the place where you, presumably, have a good record as a tenant.  New York has plenty of independently wealthy people, but they have more coherent tax return history that expresses that, so until then, you'll be limited to places that take guarantors or individual landlords who are willing to work with you.

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2014, 06:04:57 PM »
Fill it out but put the wrong number.   Either they won't call, or they will and they'll get back to you saying the number is wrong.  Then you'll know they checked.  Then you can say, "Huh, that's weird.  Well, actually, my employment situation has recently changed."  Then you can say you've moved into consulting work or something.  And ask what the procedure is for independent contractors. 

They have a correct number from last year. They can easily look in my file and find a different number.

RedMaple

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Age: 35
  • Location: NYC
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2014, 06:08:19 PM »
Sure, but did they even ask?  Most places, if you've always paid on time, let you renew without digging into your employment/credit/etc again.  You may be worried about nothing.

It's part of the application. I've never had issues paying my rent. I don't know what their procedure is. I guess I'm preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

sheepstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2014, 06:40:16 PM »
Fill it out but put the wrong number.   Either they won't call, or they will and they'll get back to you saying the number is wrong.  Then you'll know they checked.  Then you can say, "Huh, that's weird.  Well, actually, my employment situation has recently changed."  Then you can say you've moved into consulting work or something.  And ask what the procedure is for independent contractors. 

They have a correct number from last year. They can easily look in my file and find a different number.

Well, presumably it's in the phone book as well!  But they wouldn't look it up.  It's the tenant's job to save them the hassle.  Neither are they going to dig through their files on the off-chance that a tenant had the same employer last year and the number for HR is still the same.  And what you've done is simply transposed two numbers so that if they do figure out the correct number on their own, it will look innocent.

Btw, I'm really not trying to encourage you to do something you're not ethically comfortable with.  If you don't want to do it it's not like you have to make excuses for why.

Personally, if you weren't sure you had the money to pay, then I would feel iffy about it.  The spirit of the lease is that you don't intend to be forced to skip out on the rent; the factors that they use to predict that are technicalities.  In fact, someone like you who's got the rent right now in cold hard cash is in a much stronger position to guarantee that they'll fulfill the spirit of the lease compared to someone who might lose their job right after it's signed.  But that's just my take on it.

capital

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2014, 06:34:38 PM »
Is your 'great deal for the neighborhood' apartment rent stabilized, as many such apartments are in NYC? Because you can't be kicked out in that case.

libertarian4321

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
Re: Rent renewals and being unemployed (or early retirement)
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2014, 03:47:33 AM »
You could probably just lie to them, because they probably won't check.

But better yet, tell them you are self employed, or that you are an investor.  If you show them you have money, they won't give a rat's ass is you "have a job" (unless they are idiots).

I can't imagine any company refusing to extend an existing rental agreement to a person who is already a resident and who has made his payments on time.