Author Topic: Relocating countries to FIRE early.  (Read 4274 times)

MissionPossible

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« on: July 03, 2015, 08:41:16 PM »
I'm from Vancouver, Canada where the cost of living is quite insane compared to most places in the world.

Although I love Vancouver and Canada, i'm beginning to realize my freedom is more important to me.

I have been researching countries where the cost of living is much lower but still relatively close (Belize, for example). As it turns out you can get pretty huge pieces of land with a house for very cheap compared to what it would cost me here. The weather is good year round, more relaxed pace of life, more space...but it comes with cons as well compared to Canada/US i'm sure. I'm going to visit for the first time next year as a general research project and see what I think and make more decisions from there.

Has anyone done something quite 'radical' and up and relocated countries to FIRE early? Good decision? Regrets? I'll always have my citizenship, so if it goes sideways for some reason, I can always come back.

deborah

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8807
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2015, 09:01:58 PM »
Depends upon how it goes wrong. One thing about developing countries is that they tend to have corruption, a different rue of law, and dangers (including diseases) that developed countries do not tend to have. Just make sure that you look at the pros and cons and that they are worth it for you.

forummm

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7396
  • Senior Mustachian
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2015, 05:49:38 AM »
There was a long thread about this. The person who started it was very opinionated on the subject, but it's an interesting perspective to consider.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/the-reality-of-retiring-to-a-'tropical-paradise'/

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 873
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2015, 09:26:18 AM »
Try Portugal in Europe.

Very low cost of living... big expat community... one of the most technological advanced countries in the world... a lot of culture and Paradise beaches.

Good weather - no hurricanes or something of sort. People are nice... good food... there is a little of bureaucracy but i now live in the US and in some instances I think the US is worse than Portugal.

Infra structure wise, one of the best in the world with one on the best road systems in the world.

Houses are cheap - depending where you choose to do so. Even in the capital, you can find houses in the center and good areas for 200k euros or so.

I would say someone with 2k monthly dollars can live lavishly alone ... if married and with kids could probably make ends meet.

Example of expenses:

Rental of a 3 bedroom apartment around 1300 sq feet in the middle of Lisbon in good neighbourhood --> 650-700 dollars (if you stay away from the center expect half of this cost even though you may live only 10 minutes away with public transportation from the center)

Food --> 50-75 dollars per person per month

Internet Optical Fiber+TV+Landline+ 2 cellphone with unlimited minutes and texting -->39.90 dollars

Independent cellphone plan --> 10 dollars per month

Electricity depends on usage --> 50-75 dollars per month

Water --- 30 dollars per month

Natural Gas --- 30 dollars per month

Pass for public transportation which includes buses, subway, boating system --- 29 dollars per month

Entertainment for going out at night ---- you can have good food and good meals in local restaurants at night for 10-20 dollars per person (depends if you include bottles of wine with it... if you do expect on the higher interval). During lunch hours restaurants typical charge somewhere between 5-8 dollars for a full course meal (soup, a beverage, steak/fish + dessert)

Movie theaters - 3 dollars per ticket

Universal healthcare ... even if you dont want to use the public healthcare system a private insurance is cheap. A 30 year old male with a mid level insurance package to top hospitals and private clinics pays around 30 dollars per month in premiums.


Expensive stuff is --Gasoline (taxed heavily) ...cars (taxed heavily)
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 09:42:07 AM by MrSal »

MissionPossible

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2015, 07:28:35 PM »
There was a long thread about this. The person who started it was very opinionated on the subject, but it's an interesting perspective to consider.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/the-reality-of-retiring-to-a-'tropical-paradise'/

Thanks for that, i'll definitely read through that thread.

I had not considered Portugal up till this point but i'm really just starting my research on this as of a couple weeks ago. I really love tropical climates so i'm quite drawn to them. I'm not even positive this is something i'm going to do at all, but i'm curious enough about it to look into what life could be like somewhere outside North America.

MMMaybe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2015, 08:58:45 PM »
If you are interested in Belize look for a British show called Escape to the Wild, which is about people who have moved to various tropical places (generally very remote).

Its on You Tube. I think Episode 3 had some British people that settled in rural Belize.

The thread that Forummm references is quite an interesting one. I admit to being rather opinionated on that thread as well because I have lived in a few tropical places :)

MissionPossible

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2015, 01:10:13 AM »
If you are interested in Belize look for a British show called Escape to the Wild, which is about people who have moved to various tropical places (generally very remote).

Its on You Tube. I think Episode 3 had some British people that settled in rural Belize.

The thread that Forummm references is quite an interesting one. I admit to being rather opinionated on that thread as well because I have lived in a few tropical places :)

Found it, will watch now.

Belize seems appealing for a few reasons. Good climate, low cost of living, English is the national language, and from what I've read you can declare permanent residency even if you only stay there 2 weeks a year. It's a ways away still even if it were to happen, but I suppose it would be a good idea to rent for awhile first until the honeymoon phase is over as stated in the other thread, then make more decisions from there.

former player

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4614
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2015, 12:50:16 PM »
It could be rather like being a tax exile - you could end up feeling that you are living somewhere for money reasons rather than because you love it, then you feel you can't leave also because of money reasons and you end up stuck.

If you find somewhere you love and want to spend the whole of your life there, and it turns out to be significantly cheaper, that's a different thing altogether.

MissionPossible

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2015, 09:17:36 PM »
I read through that other longer thread, and perhaps I will just move this conversation to there, but I really do like the angle of just taking it as it goes. Like, I don't know where i'll be in five years or even two years, but right now i'm here and i'm enjoying it, and who knows where the next place will be. I think I could live like that for awhile. I am glad I came across this forum, it seems there are some insightful people on here.

patrickza

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Age: 40
    • The Investor Challenge
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2015, 04:36:08 AM »
Try Portugal in Europe.

Very low cost of living... big expat community... one of the most technological advanced countries in the world... a lot of culture and Paradise beaches.

Good weather - no hurricanes or something of sort. People are nice... good food... there is a little of bureaucracy but i now live in the US and in some instances I think the US is worse than Portugal.

Infra structure wise, one of the best in the world with one on the best road systems in the world.

Houses are cheap - depending where you choose to do so. Even in the capital, you can find houses in the center and good areas for 200k euros or so.

I would say someone with 2k monthly dollars can live lavishly alone ... if married and with kids could probably make ends meet.

Example of expenses:

Rental of a 3 bedroom apartment around 1300 sq feet in the middle of Lisbon in good neighbourhood --> 650-700 dollars (if you stay away from the center expect half of this cost even though you may live only 10 minutes away with public transportation from the center)

Food --> 50-75 dollars per person per month

Internet Optical Fiber+TV+Landline+ 2 cellphone with unlimited minutes and texting -->39.90 dollars

Independent cellphone plan --> 10 dollars per month

Electricity depends on usage --> 50-75 dollars per month

Water --- 30 dollars per month

Natural Gas --- 30 dollars per month

Pass for public transportation which includes buses, subway, boating system --- 29 dollars per month

Entertainment for going out at night ---- you can have good food and good meals in local restaurants at night for 10-20 dollars per person (depends if you include bottles of wine with it... if you do expect on the higher interval). During lunch hours restaurants typical charge somewhere between 5-8 dollars for a full course meal (soup, a beverage, steak/fish + dessert)

Movie theaters - 3 dollars per ticket

Universal healthcare ... even if you dont want to use the public healthcare system a private insurance is cheap. A 30 year old male with a mid level insurance package to top hospitals and private clinics pays around 30 dollars per month in premiums.


Expensive stuff is --Gasoline (taxed heavily) ...cars (taxed heavily)

Another plus for Portugal is that you can be granted a 10 year tax holiday if you emigrate there. Friend of mine left Cape Town to do just that and loves it there. It's safe too, which is a big thing for South Africans.

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 873
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 07:40:07 PM »
Try Portugal in Europe.

Very low cost of living... big expat community... one of the most technological advanced countries in the world... a lot of culture and Paradise beaches.

Good weather - no hurricanes or something of sort. People are nice... good food... there is a little of bureaucracy but i now live in the US and in some instances I think the US is worse than Portugal.

Infra structure wise, one of the best in the world with one on the best road systems in the world.

Houses are cheap - depending where you choose to do so. Even in the capital, you can find houses in the center and good areas for 200k euros or so.

I would say someone with 2k monthly dollars can live lavishly alone ... if married and with kids could probably make ends meet.

Example of expenses:

Rental of a 3 bedroom apartment around 1300 sq feet in the middle of Lisbon in good neighbourhood --> 650-700 dollars (if you stay away from the center expect half of this cost even though you may live only 10 minutes away with public transportation from the center)

Food --> 50-75 dollars per person per month

Internet Optical Fiber+TV+Landline+ 2 cellphone with unlimited minutes and texting -->39.90 dollars

Independent cellphone plan --> 10 dollars per month

Electricity depends on usage --> 50-75 dollars per month

Water --- 30 dollars per month

Natural Gas --- 30 dollars per month

Pass for public transportation which includes buses, subway, boating system --- 29 dollars per month

Entertainment for going out at night ---- you can have good food and good meals in local restaurants at night for 10-20 dollars per person (depends if you include bottles of wine with it... if you do expect on the higher interval). During lunch hours restaurants typical charge somewhere between 5-8 dollars for a full course meal (soup, a beverage, steak/fish + dessert)

Movie theaters - 3 dollars per ticket

Universal healthcare ... even if you dont want to use the public healthcare system a private insurance is cheap. A 30 year old male with a mid level insurance package to top hospitals and private clinics pays around 30 dollars per month in premiums.


Expensive stuff is --Gasoline (taxed heavily) ...cars (taxed heavily)

Another plus for Portugal is that you can be granted a 10 year tax holiday if you emigrate there. Friend of mine left Cape Town to do just that and loves it there. It's safe too, which is a big thing for South Africans.

Thats true.

There is a 10 year tax free status for foreigners... i am not sure what the requirements are but im sure they include some kind of investment even if just the purchase of property.

patrickza

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 546
  • Age: 40
    • The Investor Challenge
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 11:26:09 PM »
Try Portugal in Europe.

Very low cost of living... big expat community... one of the most technological advanced countries in the world... a lot of culture and Paradise beaches.

Good weather - no hurricanes or something of sort. People are nice... good food... there is a little of bureaucracy but i now live in the US and in some instances I think the US is worse than Portugal.

Infra structure wise, one of the best in the world with one on the best road systems in the world.

Houses are cheap - depending where you choose to do so. Even in the capital, you can find houses in the center and good areas for 200k euros or so.

I would say someone with 2k monthly dollars can live lavishly alone ... if married and with kids could probably make ends meet.

Example of expenses:

Rental of a 3 bedroom apartment around 1300 sq feet in the middle of Lisbon in good neighbourhood --> 650-700 dollars (if you stay away from the center expect half of this cost even though you may live only 10 minutes away with public transportation from the center)

Food --> 50-75 dollars per person per month

Internet Optical Fiber+TV+Landline+ 2 cellphone with unlimited minutes and texting -->39.90 dollars

Independent cellphone plan --> 10 dollars per month

Electricity depends on usage --> 50-75 dollars per month

Water --- 30 dollars per month

Natural Gas --- 30 dollars per month

Pass for public transportation which includes buses, subway, boating system --- 29 dollars per month

Entertainment for going out at night ---- you can have good food and good meals in local restaurants at night for 10-20 dollars per person (depends if you include bottles of wine with it... if you do expect on the higher interval). During lunch hours restaurants typical charge somewhere between 5-8 dollars for a full course meal (soup, a beverage, steak/fish + dessert)

Movie theaters - 3 dollars per ticket

Universal healthcare ... even if you dont want to use the public healthcare system a private insurance is cheap. A 30 year old male with a mid level insurance package to top hospitals and private clinics pays around 30 dollars per month in premiums.


Expensive stuff is --Gasoline (taxed heavily) ...cars (taxed heavily)

Another plus for Portugal is that you can be granted a 10 year tax holiday if you emigrate there. Friend of mine left Cape Town to do just that and loves it there. It's safe too, which is a big thing for South Africans.

Thats true.

There is a 10 year tax free status for foreigners... i am not sure what the requirements are but im sure they include some kind of investment even if just the purchase of property.

I'll find out. My friend that went over got it without any property investment, and his investments are all still in South Africa, so it seems the rules aren't too stringent.

Villanelle

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2961
Re: Relocating countries to FIRE early.
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2015, 05:46:06 AM »
I think living in a foreign country is a lot harder than most people realize.  Everyone's day to day life is full of small cultural literacies, most of which we aren't even aware of.  We simply know how to do things the way we have always seen them done, without really even being aware we are relying on a sort of tribal mind.  Having those cultural literacies ripped out from under you can be damn hard.  I've only lived in places where I didn't speak the language, which no doubt made it more difficult, but most often is it not the language that has cause major frustrations so much as it is the lack of understanding about how things are done. 

When I first arrived in Germany, a friend told me this story and I think of it often.  She'd only been here a couple weeks and she made her first major Germany grocery store shopping trip.  She managed to do a lot of things right which other people screw up (like weighing her own produce and printing the label, rather than bring it up and expecting the cashier to do that, something very different than the way it is done in the States and which most people wouldn't even think to question unless someone mentioned it ahead of time).  She loaded her stuff on the conveyor, aware that she was expected to have her own bags and to very quikly bag her own products as they were rung up.  She was doing it all right!  And suddenly the elderly lady behind her started screaming at her.  She couldn't understand, and was soon crying.  Eventually, she realized the woman was telling her that she was doing it wrong.  Bottles are to be laid sideways on the conveyor.  And Germans tend not to be gentle about corrections. They aren't being unpleasant.  They are just correcting a wrong and showing you how to do it right.  But the manner in which it is done can feel stern and reprimanding.   

Many Americans here also have a shared humiliation about their first time leaving a parking garage.  You always pay before you leave at a small vending-syle machine, not at the actual exit gate.  But if you don't know that, you pull up to the gate and can't get out, and if there are cars behind you, they get annoyed, and you can't back out, and...

These are just illustrations of the many, many small frustrations of Ex-pat life.  People think of the big things, but to me, it is the small cultural illiteracies that make for the Bad Days.

That said, I've had wonderful experiences and DH and I have recently discussed the possibility of a semi-retirement gig running a small B&B in Scotland or maybe Ireland.  We've done almost no research so I don't have any idea of the logistics, but it does show that even with the headaches and humiliations, I've found much to like in overseas living, too.