Author Topic: REGRETS  (Read 7322 times)

Ty Webb

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REGRETS
« on: November 14, 2012, 06:57:01 PM »
Hi All,
Does anyone else have regrets about their old free-spending ways? I'm in my mid-thirties and have been working on my 'stache for 3 years or so now. It's going great, savings are really building. My problem is, I did very well from an earnings perspective when I was in my twenties, making over a million dollars but I don't really have anything to show for it.  Just living in a big city, meals, drinks, clothes, trips, toys, etc. My industry has changed, big earnings don't come as easily now, and I had a chance at a very lucrative partnership that I passed on.  If I had only saved money and not sold the now very expensive real estate that I had bought.   I can't seem to shake the thought that if "I knew then what I know now" I'd already be retired! How do I bury these feelings of regret and move on?

EJ

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 07:25:04 PM »
Ty - welcome to the forums. 

You need to move forward and learn from the past (forgive yourself but don't forget).  People that have earned a high wage in the past have a great propensity toward getting back to those high earnings - be fortunate for what you have, work toward building your stash and go out and win every day.

I've often been bewildered by my early years stupidity as well.  Something I found that has helped me is a small amount of meditation each day - sounds and feels strange at first but it is incredible the power of living in the present moment...pm me if you want some specific reading sources.

Khao

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 07:37:58 PM »
I consider myself extremely lucky for multiple reasons :
- I'm young and have a lot of working years in front of me (I'm only 22)
- I'm a software developer so I know my salary will always be great
- I didn't mess up too badly (pure luck I guess because I still had no idea how to manage money)

My only big regret : Exactly one year ago, I got a lease on a new Toyota Matrix. A couple months later, I maxed out my credit card with a (relatively low) limit of 5k, then I panicked and told myself I needed to fix this. Took me nearly a whole year but last month I finally brought my credit card to 0! Found out about mustachianism only recently so I'm still working on fixing all the other bad things (like getting rid of the car) and I really wish I had bought an old beat-up car for 2-3k instead. I wouldn't have gotten into that maxed out credit card fiasco I had and I would have had a pretty good start of a stash right now.

kudy

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2012, 09:19:26 PM »
All the mistakes that you made were great learning experiences - that's what I always try and remind myself - I wouldn't be as wise as I am today if I was doing what I do now since birth.  Also, don't forget to remember the good times (assuming there were some) mixed in with all the wasteful spending.

Adventine

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2012, 09:33:24 PM »
Hi All,
Does anyone else have regrets about their old free-spending ways? I'm in my mid-thirties and have been working on my 'stache for 3 years or so now. It's going great, savings are really building. My problem is, I did very well from an earnings perspective when I was in my twenties, making over a million dollars but I don't really have anything to show for it.  Just living in a big city, meals, drinks, clothes, trips, toys, etc. My industry has changed, big earnings don't come as easily now, and I had a chance at a very lucrative partnership that I passed on.  If I had only saved money and not sold the now very expensive real estate that I had bought.   I can't seem to shake the thought that if "I knew then what I know now" I'd already be retired! How do I bury these feelings of regret and move on?


Hey, you eventually wised up. :) I'm sure now that you've found enlightenment, that you can find at least a couple of older people in your life who are still shackled to their consumerist lifestyles.  Relative to them, you're doing pretty great.

Nords

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2012, 09:46:08 PM »
I can't seem to shake the thought that if "I knew then what I know now" I'd already be retired! How do I bury these feelings of regret and move on?
That's your brain trying to make sure you get lasting value from the tuition you've paid to the School of Experience.

I think the thoughts & feelings will fade over time as you replace the old memories with new successes.  The key is that you changed your habits while you still had the ability to earn more and invest.  Imagine if you'd kept your old habits until you were 65 years old...

nofool

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2012, 10:40:57 AM »
Agreed with everybody else here.

Look, there will always be things you could have done better. It's a blessing to be at your current age and look back at your younger self and think, "Man, I was such an idiot!" It shows you just how far you've come. That's something to be thankful for!

"What if's" will haunt you to the day you die, if you let them. Don't. Just look toward the future instead. :)

AJ

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 02:50:49 PM »
I definitely regret some of the financial mistakes of my past, and I know what you mean about dwelling on them. But, I think the further down the road to financial freedom you get, the less it bothers you what could have been. And once you DO retire, its not like you will think to yourself "Man, if only I hadn't bought all those lattes not only would I be retired now, but I would have been retired a year ago!" (or, whatever). Point is, memories and regrets do fade as you build the life you want for yourself.

Yeah, I shouldn't have taken out $43k in student loans for a degree I didn't even want or need. And, while I was still paying them off, I really felt those pangs of "what if". But now that they are all paid in full (and have been for a couple of years) I don't even think about it any more. I shouldn't have bought my first house at near the peak of the market. But now that we are in a different house, and the old one is a cash-flow-positive rental, I don't think about it. That doesn't mean they weren't mistakes, and it doesn't mean I didn't learn from them, but the mistakes no longer cause me mental stress or lost sleep.

ruthiegirl

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 05:04:50 PM »
Yep, and in Mustachaian lingo, you punch yourself in the face and move on.  It sucks, but it's done.   What changes from this point on is up to you. 

And welcome!  I am newby too and believe me, I deserve several good face punches.  Aw well, onward and upward. 

happy

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 06:55:30 PM »
The thing about  life is, unless you are perfect you will make mistakes. I'm just about to deliver the oh so clique'd line about we all make mistakes, the thing is to learn from them.
Sit your self down and say: did I make mistakes in the past: YES. Do I know how to avoid this from now on: YES.  Give yourself a green light and :).  Then get on with it and try not to make the same mistake again. Hold your self to your new frugality just to prove you learnt the lesson.

The "I wasted so much in the past, regret regret etc"  is one step away from "I've blown it now, no use trying anymore". IMO. Don't go there.

John Spartan

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 07:06:17 PM »
I think it's important to note that it's in the past.  No amount of worrying or stressing or anything else can change that now.  Mistake or not it happened.  What you CAN control is how you react and deal with it going forward.  If you let it to continue to effect you, then its effect will be much greater on you.  I realize this is easier said than done, but like others have said here....make the most of it as a learning opportunity.  You can't change it now, so learn from it.

rjack

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2012, 07:05:17 AM »
Substitute "I have learned valuable lessons" for "I have regrets" and you will be on the right track.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 07:10:13 AM by rjack »

JanMN

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2012, 08:05:26 AM »
Oh my god, everyone has regrets - it's called normal :-)  I basically saved no money in my 20s and started in my 30s, so I've had to work like heck to catch up...but I try to think of all the cool things I did in my 20s, which I couldn't pay for... so get (trick) your perspective to look on the bright side and try to let the other just be. 

One Day At A Time

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2012, 11:35:02 AM »
Oh heavens I have so many financial ones as well! I worked at investment banks for 8 years and spent most of my bonuses. I have never been a great saver (working on that) and when I was laid off spent my unemployment versus saving it. I'm a SAHM now with my kiddo and I think about how much closer my husband would be to retirement IF we had invested rather than spending my bonuses or if we had learned to live on one salary years (decades) ago.

When I started working there was no internet (gasp) so finding MMM would have been difficult in that light but I DO wish I had been raised with a solid financial foundation (there was none) or found frugality about 20 years ago.

Of course the thing that keeps me from flagellating myself too much, is that I can pass this knowledge to my son and he will NOT make the mistakes his parents (mostly mom) did. Or if he does, it won't be because I didn't teach him differently.

Forcus

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2012, 06:30:39 PM »
Absolutely! I have estimated that I have spent about 130k on my car habit the last 15 years without much to show for it. I had a bad habit of buying a car for cheap, pumping a bunch of money in it, getting bored, and selling it.... for cheap. Great deals for the buyers though! I've been reading this blog for about 6 months and wish I had discovered something like it 10 years ago when I started making real money. I could probably be retired by now. But, live and learn. I plan on teaching my kids what my parents and schools did not.

mm1970

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 09:42:40 PM »
Sure.  I work in a place where a lot of people buy lunch out.  Every day.  And I lecture the young ones especially that it's a waste of money.  Several of them have started to bring lunch, a few of them go in spurts.

But what I tell them, when they ask is this - I didn't learn to cook until I was 32.  When I was 34 and we bought the house, I was packing up the garage and found a credit card statement from when I was in my 20's and living in DC.

OMG.  $1200 a month.  Nearly all of it eating out (probably 1/3 beer.)  And that was normal (and it was back in the 90's).  When I think of how much money I'd have if I'd saved an extra $1000 a month for 3-4 years... 

One of my coworkers just rented a studio without a real kitchen.  He says he doesn't cook much anyway, and the $300 a month savings will more than make up for increased eating out.  I don't think he's really done that math.

vallefleur

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2020, 08:48:46 AM »
Hi, daylighting this thread because this is exactly what I need right now!

As I get more into FIRE, and am starting to have some real success with aggressive saving, I keep thinking about how different things could have been if I'd received education about these basic principles!

The worst one is rent. As a single woman, it was hard to get my own mortgage over the decades even though I have an excellent credit score and never once was late on rent or any other bills. My entrepreneurial artist income was always too scary for a bank to contemplate. Fourteen years ago I asked my parents to co-sign on a mortgage, but they refused saying that they didn't want to support me living so far away. More recently, I asked my mom again, but for something I would buy in their city, and she again said no, citing not wanting to take on the insecurity.. and fair enough, because my parents didn't manage the million dollars that my Dad retired with that well and it is going down quickly.

So I just have to accept it. I was the child of relatively affluent parents and as an adult, do not own my own home. It also came on my mind recently because my mom is going to sell the family home and live off the money rather than keep it and rent it out for long term income that keeps the investment. She just can't see it. So, I am gently separating off from the whole thing, and I'm looking into buying land, and tiny houses instead. But even as I do so, I have to come to peace with how that is a LOT of money over 2 decades now that has gone to paying down other people's mortgages.

Apparently the average net worth of someone with a house is 100K and someone without is 5K. I am above that average, but only due to a small lump sum from a divorce a few years ago that I thankfully have managed to hang out to and will now increase.

But ya, it just fills me with anger at times that my parents encouraged me to do an arts career and didn't help me to make the one investment where I would have been building passive wealth through my home. Guess I need to do some serious forgiveness work and get on with things joyfully now! Forgive both myself and my parents.

I hope to have children one day (and will adopt if I don't have my own) and I take GREAT comfort from the fact that I can teach them about all this, and buy them a small rental property when they are young, and get them investing in safe havens from a young age like the Our Rich Journey young women are doing. So thanks for reminding me about that, and for this community!

mistymoney

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2020, 08:58:07 AM »
Hi All,
Does anyone else have regrets about their old free-spending ways? I'm in my mid-thirties and have been working on my 'stache for 3 years or so now. It's going great, savings are really building. My problem is, I did very well from an earnings perspective when I was in my twenties, making over a million dollars but I don't really have anything to show for it.  Just living in a big city, meals, drinks, clothes, trips, toys, etc. My industry has changed, big earnings don't come as easily now, and I had a chance at a very lucrative partnership that I passed on.  If I had only saved money and not sold the now very expensive real estate that I had bought.   I can't seem to shake the thought that if "I knew then what I know now" I'd already be retired! How do I bury these feelings of regret and move on?

focus on learning and moving forward. there are going to be other forks in the road that you will look back on from mid 40's. focus on those forks, not the ones that have already been taken and cannot be redone.

expatartist

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2020, 10:24:55 AM »
I was the child of relatively affluent parents and as an adult, do not own my own home. It also came on my mind recently because my mom is going to sell the family home and live off the money rather than keep it and rent it out for long term income that keeps the investment. She just can't see it. So, I am gently separating off from the whole thing, and I'm looking into buying land, and tiny houses instead. But even as I do so, I have to come to peace with how that is a LOT of money over 2 decades now that has gone to paying down other people's mortgages.
...
But ya, it just fills me with anger at times that my parents encouraged me to do an arts career and didn't help me to make the one investment where I would have been building passive wealth through my home. Guess I need to do some serious forgiveness work and get on with things joyfully now! Forgive both myself and my parents.

You chose to pursue a career in a poorly paying industry, as I did. No one chose it for you. No one owes you anything. You chose to move away from family (I did too). No one is responsible for our net worth besides ourselves. There are unexpected circumstances and tragedies but your situation sounds like none of these.

Want a mortgage? Get a job for a couple of years while keeping the freelance career on the side, get the mortgage, then quit if you like.

Many artists think the world owes us something. It owes us nothing; it certainly doesn't owe us a living.

mistymoney

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2020, 10:34:38 AM »
Hi, daylighting this thread because this is exactly what I need right now!

As I get more into FIRE, and am starting to have some real success with aggressive saving, I keep thinking about how different things could have been if I'd received education about these basic principles!

The worst one is rent. As a single woman, it was hard to get my own mortgage over the decades even though I have an excellent credit score and never once was late on rent or any other bills. My entrepreneurial artist income was always too scary for a bank to contemplate. Fourteen years ago I asked my parents to co-sign on a mortgage, but they refused saying that they didn't want to support me living so far away. More recently, I asked my mom again, but for something I would buy in their city, and she again said no, citing not wanting to take on the insecurity.. and fair enough, because my parents didn't manage the million dollars that my Dad retired with that well and it is going down quickly.

So I just have to accept it. I was the child of relatively affluent parents and as an adult, do not own my own home. It also came on my mind recently because my mom is going to sell the family home and live off the money rather than keep it and rent it out for long term income that keeps the investment. She just can't see it. So, I am gently separating off from the whole thing, and I'm looking into buying land, and tiny houses instead. But even as I do so, I have to come to peace with how that is a LOT of money over 2 decades now that has gone to paying down other people's mortgages.

Apparently the average net worth of someone with a house is 100K and someone without is 5K. I am above that average, but only due to a small lump sum from a divorce a few years ago that I thankfully have managed to hang out to and will now increase.

But ya, it just fills me with anger at times that my parents encouraged me to do an arts career and didn't help me to make the one investment where I would have been building passive wealth through my home. Guess I need to do some serious forgiveness work and get on with things joyfully now! Forgive both myself and my parents.

I hope to have children one day (and will adopt if I don't have my own) and I take GREAT comfort from the fact that I can teach them about all this, and buy them a small rental property when they are young, and get them investing in safe havens from a young age like the Our Rich Journey young women are doing. So thanks for reminding me about that, and for this community!

if you were renting 20 years ago, I do think you should be old enough by now to not feel so entitled to your mother's money nor be blaming her for what you chose as your career. Which you could have changed at any time over the past 20 years if you wanted to.

Freedomin5

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2020, 04:32:08 PM »
I am also the child of affluent parents who sold the family home to live off its proceedings. They worked hard for their money, invested it in a home that appreciated significantly, and did not want to deal with tenants but wanted a steady dividend income. In their case, renting out the family home would not meet the 1% rule. It made more sense for them to sell and capture the capital gains.

My parents are free to do as they like with their money. They do not have to give me a cent of their money if they donít want to. They have given me a lot already by supporting my education (lucky enough to graduate debt free through a combo of scholarships and parent support). Iím a big girl now. Iím capable of earning my own money and supporting myself, and if my income is not high enough to purchase a house, then thatís on me.

Thereís no need to forgive your parents because they have done nothing wrong towards you except to say no when you asked them to take on a risk that even the banks were unwilling to take on, which is entirely within their right and sounds reasonable to me if they need the money to fund their retirement.

And if youíre getting hung up on this, think very carefully before having children. I have one and sheís pretty expensive! And I know I canít ask her grandma/grandpa to bail us out. And any money going towards raising her is not going towards a downpayment/mortgage.

Also, listen to expatartist. Sheís figured out a way to earn a steady living as an artist while still doing her own super cool projects. I believe she also owns property. All without parent economic outpatient care. Read her journal if you want to know how she did it.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 04:53:14 PM by Freedomin5 »

Zikoris

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2020, 04:43:21 PM »
Hi, daylighting this thread because this is exactly what I need right now!

As I get more into FIRE, and am starting to have some real success with aggressive saving, I keep thinking about how different things could have been if I'd received education about these basic principles!

The worst one is rent. As a single woman, it was hard to get my own mortgage over the decades even though I have an excellent credit score and never once was late on rent or any other bills. My entrepreneurial artist income was always too scary for a bank to contemplate. Fourteen years ago I asked my parents to co-sign on a mortgage, but they refused saying that they didn't want to support me living so far away. More recently, I asked my mom again, but for something I would buy in their city, and she again said no, citing not wanting to take on the insecurity.. and fair enough, because my parents didn't manage the million dollars that my Dad retired with that well and it is going down quickly.

So I just have to accept it. I was the child of relatively affluent parents and as an adult, do not own my own home. It also came on my mind recently because my mom is going to sell the family home and live off the money rather than keep it and rent it out for long term income that keeps the investment. She just can't see it. So, I am gently separating off from the whole thing, and I'm looking into buying land, and tiny houses instead. But even as I do so, I have to come to peace with how that is a LOT of money over 2 decades now that has gone to paying down other people's mortgages.

Apparently the average net worth of someone with a house is 100K and someone without is 5K. I am above that average, but only due to a small lump sum from a divorce a few years ago that I thankfully have managed to hang out to and will now increase.

But ya, it just fills me with anger at times that my parents encouraged me to do an arts career and didn't help me to make the one investment where I would have been building passive wealth through my home. Guess I need to do some serious forgiveness work and get on with things joyfully now! Forgive both myself and my parents.

I hope to have children one day (and will adopt if I don't have my own) and I take GREAT comfort from the fact that I can teach them about all this, and buy them a small rental property when they are young, and get them investing in safe havens from a young age like the Our Rich Journey young women are doing. So thanks for reminding me about that, and for this community!

if you were renting 20 years ago, I do think you should be old enough by now to not feel so entitled to your mother's money nor be blaming her for what you chose as your career. Which you could have changed at any time over the past 20 years if you wanted to.

I know, right? I'm 33 and would be ashamed to even ask me parents for, like, $100. I have literally never once asked anyone for money in my life, even when I was broke and living on my own in my late teens. It's hard to even fathom having the audacity to expect them to buy me property. I would feel like such a loser.

Cpa Cat

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2020, 05:36:49 PM »
In my youth, I invested a sizable amount into a company that fell victim to financial management and fraud. Simultaneously, I was being audited multiple years in a row because our CPA was not preparing our returns correctly.

If I had understood how to read a financial statement, or a tax return, I would have saved - literally - hundreds of thousands of dollars.

In inspired me to make changes and go back to school and become a CPA. Now I have earned hundreds of thousands of thousands of dollars by working at my profession and making financially literate investment choices.

Would it be nice if I could have the lost money AND everything I've learned and earned since then? Sure. I'd be extra super rich if that could be. But those two things don't go together.

Hard lessons are what make you who you are. It's up to you how you react to them.


Villanelle

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2020, 05:49:22 PM »
I have a modest inheritance when I reached 18.  It was gone in a few years.  That was dumb.

I suppose I do regret it, but I also know that it is part of what took to get me to where I am now, so that regret doesn't sting.  I had to get sick to build up antibodies against wasting money.  Because I did, I'm better off. 

meghan88

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2020, 06:11:53 PM »
Hi, daylighting this thread because this is exactly what I need right now!

As I get more into FIRE, and am starting to have some real success with aggressive saving, I keep thinking about how different things could have been if I'd received education about these basic principles!

The worst one is rent. As a single woman, it was hard to get my own mortgage over the decades even though I have an excellent credit score and never once was late on rent or any other bills. My entrepreneurial artist income was always too scary for a bank to contemplate. Fourteen years ago I asked my parents to co-sign on a mortgage, but they refused saying that they didn't want to support me living so far away. More recently, I asked my mom again, but for something I would buy in their city, and she again said no, citing not wanting to take on the insecurity.. and fair enough, because my parents didn't manage the million dollars that my Dad retired with that well and it is going down quickly.

So I just have to accept it. I was the child of relatively affluent parents and as an adult, do not own my own home. It also came on my mind recently because my mom is going to sell the family home and live off the money rather than keep it and rent it out for long term income that keeps the investment. She just can't see it. So, I am gently separating off from the whole thing, and I'm looking into buying land, and tiny houses instead. But even as I do so, I have to come to peace with how that is a LOT of money over 2 decades now that has gone to paying down other people's mortgages.

Apparently the average net worth of someone with a house is 100K and someone without is 5K. I am above that average, but only due to a small lump sum from a divorce a few years ago that I thankfully have managed to hang out to and will now increase.

But ya, it just fills me with anger at times that my parents encouraged me to do an arts career and didn't help me to make the one investment where I would have been building passive wealth through my home. Guess I need to do some serious forgiveness work and get on with things joyfully now! Forgive both myself and my parents.

I hope to have children one day (and will adopt if I don't have my own) and I take GREAT comfort from the fact that I can teach them about all this, and buy them a small rental property when they are young, and get them investing in safe havens from a young age like the Our Rich Journey young women are doing. So thanks for reminding me about that, and for this community!

if you were renting 20 years ago, I do think you should be old enough by now to not feel so entitled to your mother's money nor be blaming her for what you chose as your career. Which you could have changed at any time over the past 20 years if you wanted to.

I know, right? I'm 33 and would be ashamed to even ask me parents for, like, $100. I have literally never once asked anyone for money in my life, even when I was broke and living on my own in my late teens. It's hard to even fathom having the audacity to expect them to buy me property. I would feel like such a loser.

I was on my own and broke in my late teens as well, and estranged from family, and not the best with money until I smartened up on my own.  I also didn't have the basis or means for a decent career until I put myself through university in my late 30's.  So there's always time to make changes.

Vallefleur - renting is not all bad.  You might want to check out a few threads on this forum on the topic of buying vs. renting.  Or also see stuff like https://www.millennial-revolution.com/rent/renting-will-make-you-rich/.  That said, if you live in a LCOL area where house prices are low but rents are high, and you plan on staying put in one house for at least 10 years, buying might make sense.

charis

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2020, 07:49:19 PM »
Hi, daylighting this thread because this is exactly what I need right now!

As I get more into FIRE, and am starting to have some real success with aggressive saving, I keep thinking about how different things could have been if I'd received education about these basic principles!

The worst one is rent. As a single woman, it was hard to get my own mortgage over the decades even though I have an excellent credit score and never once was late on rent or any other bills. My entrepreneurial artist income was always too scary for a bank to contemplate. Fourteen years ago I asked my parents to co-sign on a mortgage, but they refused saying that they didn't want to support me living so far away. More recently, I asked my mom again, but for something I would buy in their city, and she again said no, citing not wanting to take on the insecurity.. and fair enough, because my parents didn't manage the million dollars that my Dad retired with that well and it is going down quickly.

So I just have to accept it. I was the child of relatively affluent parents and as an adult, do not own my own home. It also came on my mind recently because my mom is going to sell the family home and live off the money rather than keep it and rent it out for long term income that keeps the investment. She just can't see it. So, I am gently separating off from the whole thing, and I'm looking into buying land, and tiny houses instead. But even as I do so, I have to come to peace with how that is a LOT of money over 2 decades now that has gone to paying down other people's mortgages.

Apparently the average net worth of someone with a house is 100K and someone without is 5K. I am above that average, but only due to a small lump sum from a divorce a few years ago that I thankfully have managed to hang out to and will now increase.

But ya, it just fills me with anger at times that my parents encouraged me to do an arts career and didn't help me to make the one investment where I would have been building passive wealth through my home. Guess I need to do some serious forgiveness work and get on with things joyfully now! Forgive both myself and my parents.

I hope to have children one day (and will adopt if I don't have my own) and I take GREAT comfort from the fact that I can teach them about all this, and buy them a small rental property when they are young, and get them investing in safe havens from a young age like the Our Rich Journey young women are doing. So thanks for reminding me about that, and for this community!

if you were renting 20 years ago, I do think you should be old enough by now to not feel so entitled to your mother's money nor be blaming her for what you chose as your career. Which you could have changed at any time over the past 20 years if you wanted to.

I know, right? I'm 33 and would be ashamed to even ask me parents for, like, $100. I have literally never once asked anyone for money in my life, even when I was broke and living on my own in my late teens. It's hard to even fathom having the audacity to expect them to buy me property. I would feel like such a loser.

I was on my own and broke in my late teens as well, and estranged from family, and not the best with money until I smartened up on my own.  I also didn't have the basis or means for a decent career until I put myself through university in my late 30's.  So there's always time to make changes.

Vallefleur - renting is not all bad.  You might want to check out a few threads on this forum on the topic of buying vs. renting.  Or also see stuff like https://www.millennial-revolution.com/rent/renting-will-make-you-rich/.  That said, if you live in a LCOL area where house prices are low but rents are high, and you plan on staying put in one house for at least 10 years, buying might make sense.

Thank god your parents declined to co-sign a mortgage for you.  My parents were not so smart and co-signed a loan for a sibling that they are now paying bc said sibling cannot afford the payments due to unstable income. Can you not see the risk you are asking them to take? No adult should be trying to burden their parents in that way.  I'm also baffled why you'd expect your elderly retired parents to suddenly become landlords "to keep the investment.". They did keep it, now they're living off of it.  You need to work on something but it ain't forgiveness.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2020, 09:43:15 PM »
In my youth, I invested a sizable amount into a company that fell victim to financial management and fraud.
I am 98% sure you intended to write "financial mismanagement", but given the attitude of most on the boards to active management, this typo got me to laugh out loud.

Vallefleur:
I think the thing you need to explore is where you developed the expectations you seem to have of wealth transfer (or even just privilege-transfer, in the case of the cosign) from your parents to yourself. I say this because I can identify to a degree.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: our society normalizes wealth transfer, rather than true self-making, to an unhealthy degree, and you hint at just that when you say "my parents encouraged me to do an arts career" (with the implication of shared understanding that the arts are rarely lucrative.) I can see the potential that you might have been set up to believe you had their affluence to rely on in the long run. One of my parents made a lot of lofty promises all my life about providing for my education (and I did work very hard to feel 'worthy' of that aid, because we were not wealthy); every one turned to dust in the six months before they were supposed to materialize. I recognize that disappointment. So in sincerity: what would you have done differently in your life if you had not anticipated that form of support? What would that have shaped in your choices?

It's often best to let the past be past, and it's good you're trying to move on, but since you mention you want to raise children yourself, please consider whether having that expectation of future support set you up as a young person for optimal personal wellbeing. That anger comes from somewhere - you even mention some of it is self-directed - and it sounds like been smoldering on and off for over a decade of your life; it sounds to me like it's more about the difference that would have made in your past and your plans than it is about a sense of deprivation in your present or future. Providing financial education is always good, but consider whether you want your future offspring to grow up anticipating financial gifts the way you clearly did as opposed to expecting to make their own way in the world, so that having to do so won't leave them still working to find peace with the experience after a decade and a half of living in it.

Families often perpetuate pain by trying to do the opposite of what their parents did. The kind thing to do for the next generation isn't to give them the perpetual external support you wish you'd received; it's to set them up to be self-reliant, resilient, and internally prepared to make a happy and satisfying life, no matter what happens, even if those gifts aren't available.

Malcat

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2020, 05:08:31 AM »
Hi, daylighting this thread because this is exactly what I need right now!

As I get more into FIRE, and am starting to have some real success with aggressive saving, I keep thinking about how different things could have been if I'd received education about these basic principles!

The worst one is rent. As a single woman, it was hard to get my own mortgage over the decades even though I have an excellent credit score and never once was late on rent or any other bills. My entrepreneurial artist income was always too scary for a bank to contemplate. Fourteen years ago I asked my parents to co-sign on a mortgage, but they refused saying that they didn't want to support me living so far away. More recently, I asked my mom again, but for something I would buy in their city, and she again said no, citing not wanting to take on the insecurity.. and fair enough, because my parents didn't manage the million dollars that my Dad retired with that well and it is going down quickly.

So I just have to accept it. I was the child of relatively affluent parents and as an adult, do not own my own home. It also came on my mind recently because my mom is going to sell the family home and live off the money rather than keep it and rent it out for long term income that keeps the investment. She just can't see it. So, I am gently separating off from the whole thing, and I'm looking into buying land, and tiny houses instead. But even as I do so, I have to come to peace with how that is a LOT of money over 2 decades now that has gone to paying down other people's mortgages.

Apparently the average net worth of someone with a house is 100K and someone without is 5K. I am above that average, but only due to a small lump sum from a divorce a few years ago that I thankfully have managed to hang out to and will now increase.

But ya, it just fills me with anger at times that my parents encouraged me to do an arts career and didn't help me to make the one investment where I would have been building passive wealth through my home. Guess I need to do some serious forgiveness work and get on with things joyfully now! Forgive both myself and my parents.

I hope to have children one day (and will adopt if I don't have my own) and I take GREAT comfort from the fact that I can teach them about all this, and buy them a small rental property when they are young, and get them investing in safe havens from a young age like the Our Rich Journey young women are doing. So thanks for reminding me about that, and for this community!

Welcome to the forum, and try not to be discouraged by the types of replies that the tone of your post has and will elicit.

This is not a place that is very tolerant of entitlement or lack of personal responsibility for circumstances. However, it's actually an extremely supportive place if what you are seeking is support to make positive changes and take control of your own financial circumstances.

If what you are looking for is sympathy for your circumstances, I guarantee you are in the wrong place. Absolutely no one here is going to feel bad for someone from a supportive, financially secure family whose parents *didn't* prevent them from pursuing their dreams.

If what you want is support and advice for increasing your income, lowering your spending, and especially determining if buying a home really is a better option for you than renting, then you have hit a goldmine of wisdom here, and if you approach people here with the right attitude, they will put in countless hours of time to help you with exquisitely researched and customized advice.

You will need a thick skin though, because it's considered fair game here to rip apart someone's personal decisions, so if you can be humble and not take anything personally, then you could be on your way to a much better financial future.

mistymoney

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2020, 06:18:15 AM »
Hi, daylighting this thread because this is exactly what I need right now!

As I get more into FIRE, and am starting to have some real success with aggressive saving, I keep thinking about how different things could have been if I'd received education about these basic principles!

The worst one is rent. As a single woman, it was hard to get my own mortgage over the decades even though I have an excellent credit score and never once was late on rent or any other bills. My entrepreneurial artist income was always too scary for a bank to contemplate. Fourteen years ago I asked my parents to co-sign on a mortgage, but they refused saying that they didn't want to support me living so far away. More recently, I asked my mom again, but for something I would buy in their city, and she again said no, citing not wanting to take on the insecurity.. and fair enough, because my parents didn't manage the million dollars that my Dad retired with that well and it is going down quickly.

So I just have to accept it. I was the child of relatively affluent parents and as an adult, do not own my own home. It also came on my mind recently because my mom is going to sell the family home and live off the money rather than keep it and rent it out for long term income that keeps the investment. She just can't see it. So, I am gently separating off from the whole thing, and I'm looking into buying land, and tiny houses instead. But even as I do so, I have to come to peace with how that is a LOT of money over 2 decades now that has gone to paying down other people's mortgages.

Apparently the average net worth of someone with a house is 100K and someone without is 5K. I am above that average, but only due to a small lump sum from a divorce a few years ago that I thankfully have managed to hang out to and will now increase.

But ya, it just fills me with anger at times that my parents encouraged me to do an arts career and didn't help me to make the one investment where I would have been building passive wealth through my home. Guess I need to do some serious forgiveness work and get on with things joyfully now! Forgive both myself and my parents.

I hope to have children one day (and will adopt if I don't have my own) and I take GREAT comfort from the fact that I can teach them about all this, and buy them a small rental property when they are young, and get them investing in safe havens from a young age like the Our Rich Journey young women are doing. So thanks for reminding me about that, and for this community!

if you were renting 20 years ago, I do think you should be old enough by now to not feel so entitled to your mother's money nor be blaming her for what you chose as your career. Which you could have changed at any time over the past 20 years if you wanted to.

I know, right? I'm 33 and would be ashamed to even ask me parents for, like, $100. I have literally never once asked anyone for money in my life, even when I was broke and living on my own in my late teens. It's hard to even fathom having the audacity to expect them to buy me property. I would feel like such a loser.

I was on my own and broke in my late teens as well, and estranged from family, and not the best with money until I smartened up on my own.  I also didn't have the basis or means for a decent career until I put myself through university in my late 30's.  So there's always time to make changes.

Vallefleur - renting is not all bad.  You might want to check out a few threads on this forum on the topic of buying vs. renting.  Or also see stuff like https://www.millennial-revolution.com/rent/renting-will-make-you-rich/.  That said, if you live in a LCOL area where house prices are low but rents are high, and you plan on staying put in one house for at least 10 years, buying might make sense.

The mother may be feeling the burden of property ownership, wanting to sell, and also 'saving' her dd from that burden as a single woman.

expatartist

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Re: REGRETS
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2020, 09:50:46 AM »
If what you want is support and advice for increasing your income, lowering your spending, and especially determining if buying a home really is a better option for you than renting, then you have hit a goldmine of wisdom here, and if you approach people here with the right attitude, they will put in countless hours of time to help you with exquisitely researched and customized advice.

You will need a thick skin though, because it's considered fair game here to rip apart someone's personal decisions, so if you can be humble and not take anything personally, then you could be on your way to a much better financial future.

Hi @vallefleur hope my statements aren't offensive. In the spirit of many on MMM, they're tough love. I'm from a middle-class family (like many artists; visual arts tend to be middle-class and up since working class artists, especially POC remain marginalized in the arts) who always encouraged my art-making but, once it came to choosing a course of study, disagreed and essentially kicked me out of the house. So I worked at Subway, then retail, saved enough to pay for community college arts courses while working then once old enough for student loans (parents made too much $ for me to get loans without co-signers) I went to university for my degree. Also while working. Hacked a DIY art study program to France, internships/apprenticeships etc to the UK and Italy paid for by working at art supply stores and scenic painting. All good fun and full of learning experiences. Not great for savings.

All artists work hard for whatever successes we have - and they're usually small. But the world is stacked against many and though it took me 20 years to pay off my (relatively small, low interest) loans and I scraped by for years until finding the arts job I have now, thanks to my passport and degree I was able to travel and work around the world. We are so very lucky to have first world passports. It can be helpful to remember how lucky we are when comparing ourselves with others.

You mentioned tiny houses. It can be an option for those who can't get a mortgage - my situation until this job a few years ago. I've been intrigued with them too, so bought and renovated one in Sicily about ten years ago. 5 years ago purchased a tiny place in Athens. Both have made small profits by renting to holiday renters (Sicily) on AirBnB and volunteers (Athens). The models will change for the next few years during COVID and life plans will have to adapt too. There are lots of creative options for housing so if you're not interested to get a job that would qualify you for a mortgage, you can create another solution. Tiny houses tend not to appreciate much but artists' homes are often for the select few who can understand how we view and use space.  2 years ago I received an unexpected inheritance which is funding 50% of the real estate I am purchasing to immigrate to Athens eventually. So my future options have been increased thanks to this gift.

One aspect of MMM I enjoy is the creativity, dedication, and hard work demonstrated in the posts. We can all learn from this and I tune in regularly for a kick in the ass to examine how I've been slacking off ;)


ETA: Regrets, I could have many. But I tend to see the mistakes I made (and continue to make) as something to learn from.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2020, 09:06:05 PM by expatartist »