Regret leaving jobs I liked for better opportunities

[startingout]

This has already happened twice in my career, and I hope to not repeat my mistakes. I know the conventional wisdom on this, but what are your thoughts from an early-retirement perspective?

Years ago, I was working at a job I absolutely loved. It was basically my dream job. A few years later, a merger occurred. Some changes started being rolled out and people in my department started panicking about being made redundant. A recruiter reached out to me during this time, and I applied on a whim. I ended up getting the job offer. It was a small pay bump, but the new opportunities would be great for my career. I reluctantly accepted the offer and left my company.

I liked the new job, but not as much as my old one. It was similar in many ways, but didn't have the magic that my old job possessed. A couple of years later, COVID-19 happened, and I ended up furloughed. During my furlough, I applied to a bunch of jobs. One of the companies gave me an offer just as I was unfurloughed. This new company is in a more stable and less volatile industry, one with lots of opportunities, and my friends and family suggested I accept their offer. And it made sense logically, so I did.

Now I'm regretting this job change, but more so the one prior to this. Each of the pay bumps I received was less than a 10% increase, and I no longer care about the amount. I made the better choice on paper both times, but I'm much less happy now than I was in 2017. I prioritized my career when I'm not sure it would have mattered if I was planning on retiring within 10 years anyway. Also, I'm married and can live on my spouse's income, so it's not like I needed the pay raise or job security.

What are your thoughts?

[ctuser1]

Be very very very wary of loving your "job", presumably in a large corporation (since you mention mergers). The corporation does not, and can not love you back, and will not hesitate to eliminate your job if that suited it's bottom-line better.

You should, instead, love your work, the skill-set you gain at that work, the team you work with (i.e. the network you are building if/when you leave that job).

Never, ever get married to a job. If you see yourself getting too comfortable in a job, move. Even an internal move would be great, as long as you move out of your comfort zone.

Becoming comfortable is the fastest and most sure-shot way towards becoming a dinosaur.

[terran]

It sounds like the first job was likely to change and the second job no longer existed, so I'm not sure you're comparing what you legitimately could have with what you do have, but rather your idealized version of what you had with what you have now. That sounds like a great way to be unhappy with what you have now.

[startingout]

It sounds like the first job was likely to change and the second job no longer existed, so I'm not sure you're comparing what you legitimately could have with what you do have, but rather your idealized version of what you had with what you have now. That sounds like a great way to be unhappy with what you have now.

True, I do tend to make myself unhappy with picturing alternate scenarios. The second job still exists though. I was hired back after a furlough of only 2 weeks. I would still be employed with them had I not quit. Regarding the first job, I checked with a former coworker, and he said though some things changed, it's basically like it was before as far as his team goes. The layoffs people feared never happened at either companies.

Be very very very wary of loving your "job", presumably in a large corporation (since you mention mergers). The corporation does not, and can not love you back, and will not hesitate to eliminate your job if that suited it's bottom-line better.

Becoming comfortable is the fastest and most sure-shot way towards becoming a dinosaur.

I see your point. Would it have mattered if I ended up a dinosaur if my backup plan would be to retire earlier? Also, the tradeoff of staying at the job I loved would have been to eke out some more years of career bliss.

[terran]

It sounds like the first job was likely to change and the second job no longer existed, so I'm not sure you're comparing what you legitimately could have with what you do have, but rather your idealized version of what you had with what you have now. That sounds like a great way to be unhappy with what you have now.

True, I do tend to make myself unhappy with picturing alternate scenarios. The second job still exists though. I was hired back after a furlough of only 2 weeks. I would still be employed with them had I not quit. Regarding the first job, I checked with a former coworker, and he said though some things changed, it's basically like it was before as far as his team goes. The layoffs people feared never happened at either companies.

In that case maybe you have a proven tendency to jump ship too soon. Maybe you should try to use this self knowledge as a learning opportunity to decrease the value you place on security in favor of taking a wait and see approach if you find yourself in a position you like. At the first job you didn't even wait to find out there would be layoffs or that you would be laid off before finding a new job. At the second you went and found a new job within only 2 weeks of being laid off.

Around here there's a lot of talk of using FU money to escape a employment situation you don't like. Assuming you have a decent sized stash maybe you should work on learning to use it to stay in situations you do like even if that means you're risking the possibility that you spend some time unemployed.

[plog]

The grass is always greener.  You cannot live life without regret.  You chose B over A and C over B; I'm certain if you made the opposite decision in either of those cases you would still wonder if you made the right one. 

Don't look for missed happiness in the past, find a way to it  in the future.

[Freedomin5]

Be very very very wary of loving your "job", presumably in a large corporation (since you mention mergers). The corporation does not, and can not love you back, and will not hesitate to eliminate your job if that suited it's bottom-line better.

Becoming comfortable is the fastest and most sure-shot way towards becoming a dinosaur.

I see your point. Would it have mattered if I ended up a dinosaur if my backup plan would be to retire earlier? Also, the tradeoff of staying at the job I loved would have been to eke out some more years of career bliss.

Yes, it does matter. Why would you burn your bridges like that and exit with the reputation of being a dinosaur? Especially if you retire early and may due to unforeseen circumstances need to go back to work at a future date.

[Freedomin5]

It sounds like the first job was likely to change and the second job no longer existed, so I'm not sure you're comparing what you legitimately could have with what you do have, but rather your idealized version of what you had with what you have now. That sounds like a great way to be unhappy with what you have now.

True, I do tend to make myself unhappy with picturing alternate scenarios. The second job still exists though. I was hired back after a furlough of only 2 weeks. I would still be employed with them had I not quit. Regarding the first job, I checked with a former coworker, and he said though some things changed, it's basically like it was before as far as his team goes. The layoffs people feared never happened at either companies.

In that case maybe you have a proven tendency to jump ship too soon. Maybe you should try to use this self knowledge as a learning opportunity to decrease the value you place on security in favor of taking a wait and see approach if you find yourself in a position you like. At the first job you didn't even wait to find out there would be layoffs or that you would be laid off before finding a new job. At the second you went and found a new job within only 2 weeks of being laid off.

Around here there's a lot of talk of using FU money to escape a employment situation you don't like. Assuming you have a decent sized stash maybe you should work on learning to use it to stay in situations you do like even if that means you're risking the possibility that you spend some time unemployed.

Yes, you’re making your decisions based on fear. Doing so often leads to regret because what we fear often never materializes.

[startingout]

Yes, you’re making your decisions based on fear. Doing so often leads to regret because what we fear often never materializes.

Yes, that's true. I also can't seem to turn down an offer sheet with a bigger number. It's to the point where I didn't even want to apply to the last 2 jobs because I knew I wouldn't be able to turn them down if I had gotten an offer.

I actually turned down my current job after I got unfurloughed. But the company begged me to reconsider and let me work from home several days a week.

[ctuser1]

Your resume should tell a story.

The best crafted resumes are such where the story stands out without *any* editorializing. e.g. if you looked at Pete Buttigieg's resume, even just the 5-bullet-points version reported in media - then it's quite obvious that it was crafted for high political office based on 20-year-old assumptions. (this is not to support or oppose his positions, I'm just talking about his career moves).

Do you have a 5-bullet-point resume? An elevator resume? If not, that is your first order of priority.
Does that resume tell a consistent and strong story?
Yes? Great. You are set and make sure you maintain that story with your career moves.
No? Is it possible to change the wording on that to eke out a plausible angle of a story that you want told?
  If not - perhaps you should look to "build" that story by making the appropriate, strategic moves.

 

[MrThatsDifferent]

You seem to be a bit harsh on yourself. Each job change seems logical to me: one you thought your job was going to end, and the other you wanted a secure job. Sucks that the original job was imperiled as it was. All you can do now is focus on trying to make your current job as enjoyable as possible or doing the work to get through the day and make your non-work life as enjoyable as possible and shifting your energy to that. There is absolutely nothing you can do to change the past, so what’s the value in dwelling on it? Think about what you’ve learned from those experiences, write those learnings down and move on. Don’t give it anymore of your energy or focus, you have better things for that.

[mitchm]

No particular advice here but this is something I also think about fairly often. I like my job a lot -- what would it take in terms of pay raise for me to leave the organization? Probably a life-changing amount of money, since it is a trade/profession that most people consider "high stress" and very prone to burnout, yet I rarely feel that way and sometimes enjoy my weeks working more than my weekends. Hard to put a dollar value on that.

Not trying to gloat though -- more trying to reassure myself that I'm not an idiot for sticking around and not doing the company switch thing that the mainstream media/economists say is the key way to increase your salary these days, as a young professional.
 

[marty998]

Sometimes you just have to block recruitment agents.

They're in the sales business. They're there to sell you a job change, in the same way a realestate agent is there to sell you a house. In a stable market with a few big companies, their livelihood/commissions depend on getting you switch jobs, and switch jobs often.

Don't ever assume it's to help you with furthering your career.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Liking your job is a good thing, but it's still just a job. It would pay you the same if you hated it. Anytime you like it, that's a good thing. Doesn't much matter if you liked the last one better, imo

[LD_TAndK]

I'm sort of in the opposite position. I've stuck to the same job while my peers have been jumping jobs and probably earn 20% more than I do now.

No regrets here though, being at a job I like has been a boon to my quality of life.

Not sure I see the point of chasing resume building accomplishments, when FIRE is in less than a decade and money isn't tight.

[startingout]

I rarely feel that way and sometimes enjoy my weeks working more than my weekends. Hard to put a dollar value on that.

Where do you work, and are you guys hiring? 😉

Yeah, I don't think the early retirement community should value raises and career growth as much provided they love their jobs. If your job motivates you to happily work years longer than you have to, then you'll still come out ahead than someone who quits as soon as possible.

[FLBiker]

Personally, I have turned down more money a few times and have never regretted it.  For me, this is less about FIRE (in the absolute sense of stopping working as early as possible) as it is about freedom.  Because we live modestly and have a good amount of savings, I don't always have to make the choice that makes (or saves) the most money.  DW stayed home for 2.5 years when our daughter was born, only the first three months of which was paid.  That would have been ~$100K, all told, and we never regret.  I've also turned down a promotion for a position that I know would have been stressful and unpleasant, even though it would have been a lot more money (~40% raise).

I'm also personally not against staying in jobs that are comfortable.  Early in your career, it's probably good to be pushed professionally, develop diverse skills, etc., but at a certain point that doesn't seem like a priority.  Not that it's bad, but I don't know that it's essential.  We're probably ~3-5 years away from hitting our FIRE number.  I am absolutely willing to stay in a job where I am comfortable at this point.  If it goes away, I'll find a different one, but I'm willing to ride the wave until then.

All that being said, I actually started a new position in October.  The reason, though, is that I needed something I could do remotely to facilitate a lifestyle change we wanted to make (moving from the US to Canada).  I actually took a pay cut to do it (although my previous employer is making up the difference (likely for the next few years) so that I continue to support projects there.

For me, personal growth and quality of life are the benchmarks, and my job is just a means to those ends.

[Laura33]

First, make sure you're regretting the actual job, not your dream of what your life would be like today if you had stuck with the perfect first job and nothing had changed.  Force yourself to recall the warts on the dream -- the annoyances that have faded with time, the frustrations that made you open to change.  It is so, so easy to idealize what we have lost, particularly when we are not happy where we are now.  But all that does is sell yourself a line of self-pitying crap.  Worse, it persuades you that there really is some ideal job out there, and so it's ok to keep wasting time dreaming about it, vs. figuring out what combination of pros and cons is the right balance for you.

Second:  to the extent you have a realistic view of the good and bad things about your former jobs, your regrets are telling you that your have been making decisions that are not aligned with what you truly value.  And that's ok -- humans are absolutely notorious for thinking that the wrong things will make them happy.  So it's actually a good thing that you are feeling this, because it gives you a chance to change course and make better decisions going forward. 

So:  what drove you to make those mistakes?  Well, as others have noted, fear just jumps off the page.  You seem to have a high degree of need for security, so that the slightest threat of change was sufficient to trigger a desire to jump ship to something safer.  This is actually really good news, because you know what is the best security of all?  FI!  Not needing a job allows you to wait and see if things change for the worse/better.  So the takeaway here for the short-term is to build your safety net outside of your job, i.e., lower your expenses and build up a big fat emergency fund so when that fear kicks in, you can remind yourself how illogically you are acting, because you have plenty of cash and low expenses and can afford to ride this out.  Added bonus:  as you're discovering now, the more solid your current financial situation is, and the closer you get to FI, the less important a bump in pay becomes in your decisionmaking.   

The other thing that you seem to be discovering is that security and money do not always provide a satisfying job experience.  Some jobs are flat-out boring.  Some jobs have a crap team ethos.  And some of those crappy jobs offer money and security.  But again, this is good news:  you've identified this as a problem, which means you can teach yourself to move past the apparent money and security and look for the factors that make a difference to your daily happiness once you're actually in the job. 

So the next step is figuring out what those are.  Why do you think you enjoyed that first job -- what was it about the actual work and the environment that got you jazzed?  What skills did you get to use/develop that you aren't getting to use now?  Or was it the training, type of work, management, independence, etc.?  Think about all aspects of your former jobs and see if you can tease out the things that you liked and disliked.  And also don't discount the money/security issues.  Leaving that first job might have been the right call for you at the time, if you were in a different situation and needed the paycheck.  The fact that Current You wouldn't make the same decision today doesn't mean that Past You was wrong. 

Once you figure out -- as best you can, we're all imperfect -- the things that make you meaningfully happy and those that don't, take a look at all of your options.  You are not stuck where you are now.  Can you go back to the last job?  What are the pros and cons of that?  Or if you're really pining over the first job, can you see if there are opportunities to go back there?  Even if none of that is an immediate option, do the things you can do to set yourself up in the future -- keep those connections active, let your friends know you'd like to come back, build your network, build your skills, be an active driver of your career. 

Or:  decide that you actually do get enough from your current job to be content there for as long as you need to reach your financial goals.  And then repeat the analysis any time you are once again unhappy. 

[Cassie]

I used to change jobs for more money or if things looked shaky. Each time I regretted it. When I was lucky enough to find a place I loved I stayed because I knew I would probably be unhappy if I did.  The people I knew that kept climbing the ladder were never happy.

[startingout]

To further clarify, I've had more than 3 jobs. I'm currently on my 5th full-time job, with an average tenure of only 2 years for the first 4, which is a problem in and of itself. I just started my current job, so I'd really like to stay here for at least 2 years. My last 3 jobs are what I describe in my initial post. They all have the same job function, on paper.

As for what I liked about the first job I described, we had a really fun, laid-back culture. Also, my team got along so well and worked together so seamlessly that we did away with deadlines. We just did our best to accomplish what we could each day. We had a lot of fun together, celebrating holidays and special events, and joking a lot during our meetings. One person on our team loved to bake, so we'd have delicious treats often. I don't think it's likely that I find myself in such a situation again. Most of the team has since left that company. I do think about going back, but I've since moved further away, so my commute would be over an hour each way, unless I could get the company to allow me to work remotely 4 days a week. Even that could have been doable had I stuck around for the training on their new processes. I ultimately left the company because the next company seemed similar in culture, but with better pay and an improved commute.

The second job I described, which I just left, was similar in culture, but less fun, probably because the demographics of the company skewed older. The industry this company was in was more stressful than the first, so my work was more challenging. This company did say they would be willing to hire me back.

I thought my current job would be easier, but it might be the most challenging yet. I don't dislike challenges, but I dislike the stress they bring. I don't think there's anything laid back or fun about this culture, which is why I initially turned down the offer.

[mitchm]

@startingout I manage a financial education/asset-building program for refugees and asylees. Small team so I still get to do some of the teaching/1:1 coaching myself. http://www.irc-ceo.org/about/our-story/

I rarely feel that way and sometimes enjoy my weeks working more than my weekends. Hard to put a dollar value on that.

Where do you work, and are you guys hiring? 😉

Yeah, I don't think the early retirement community should value raises and career growth as much provided they love their jobs. If your job motivates you to happily work years longer than you have to, then you'll still come out ahead than someone who quits as soon as possible.

[startingout]

@mitchm Sounds like a great cause and place to work! It's not in my region, unfortunately.