Author Topic: Fighting with Non-Recyclers  (Read 2077 times)

fpjeepy

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Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« on: October 23, 2020, 07:49:39 AM »
On another forum (dedicated to boat building) I have tried multiple times to start discussions about recycling boatbuilding products and/or reducing the price/footprint of boat production, and every time I get shut down. "It doesn't work" "What builders are doing now is the best that can be done" "Environmental cost of the process is higher than not recycling it" "There's no market for these recycled materials"
How do I get through to these people?


Retire-Canada

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2020, 08:06:33 AM »
How do I get through to these people?

You don't get through to these people. Do what you can to be a good example and leave it at that. You are not going to convert anyone who is not interested in changing.

GuitarStv

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2020, 08:07:44 AM »
Prove them wrong.

If you can prove that it's cost effective and/or easy to recycle these things, then you'll change minds because people will see personal benefit from doing it.  If you're trying to sell people on doing something harder and more expensive you're doomed to lose.

The average person doesn't give a shit about the environment, so don't try to use it as a selling point.

plog

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2020, 08:08:19 AM »
Quote
I have tried multiple times to

Probably at this point your only way is with leading by example.  You've made your point, they've countered your point and now your digging in.  It sounds like they think of you as the nutty hippie guy who can be dismissed out of hand.

They've given you counterarguments, you could try and go to builders and get data to disprove their assumptions, but I'm not really sure they'll believe you if they are in fact wrong. 


Metalcat

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2020, 08:10:22 AM »
I don't know anything about boats, so I don't know if they have a point or not.

However, as others have said, the best way to prove a point is to prove it. If you can do it effectively and for less cost with recycling, then do it and set the example.

fpjeepy

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2020, 08:33:00 AM »
It just makes me hate people. And I don't like that.

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2020, 08:43:06 AM »
It just makes me hate people. And I don't like that.

Unplug from that aspect of the community. I no longer go to Off Topic here, for example.

nereo

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2020, 08:56:46 AM »
On another forum (dedicated to boat building) I have tried multiple times to start discussions about recycling boatbuilding products and/or reducing the price/footprint of boat production, and every time I get shut down. "It doesn't work" "What builders are doing now is the best that can be done" "Environmental cost of the process is higher than not recycling it" "There's no market for these recycled materials"
How do I get through to these people?

We go through similar battles.
As you've learned, little headway is made by directly challenging their non-eco-friendly practices.  Instead, lead by example but also make an emotional or financial connection on their level. For example, instead of lecturing them on unsustainable building practices, you might get a better reaction by saying something like "man, those mahogany/teak boats are beautiful, but after seeing how much its destroying the forests there, I found a local mill that does great work with local, sustainably harvested red oak.  It gives my boat a sense of place and is an awesome material for strip planking".
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 09:18:34 AM by nereo »

Metalcat

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2020, 09:01:10 AM »
It just makes me hate people. And I don't like that.

That's not healthy. Don't engage then.

Fishindude

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2020, 09:47:29 AM »
I don't recycle and I will tell you why.   Our community has "mixed recycle" bins located strategically around where you are to drop off your; paper, cardboard, alum & steel containers, glass, plastic, etc.   Everything goes into one bin.   I was always suspicious but after talking to a gentleman I know at the landfill, all of these bins just get dumped into the landfill along with all of the other trash and buried.   

Aluminum and steel are borderline, but there really isn't any market for any of the other materials, as it costs way more to sort, clean, handle and process it.   The only reason our community (and many others) have this recycling program set up is to say that they have a recycling program, which makes them eligible for certain grants, etc.

My stuff just goes into the trash and winds up in the landfill like everyone else's, so it could be argued that I am actually operating "greener" than the folks using the recycling bins, as I don't burn gas taking my stuff there.

SunnyDays

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2020, 03:13:28 PM »
@Fishindude, thatís unfortunately very common.  There was an episode on Marketplace re recycling practices in BC where 3 different bundles were electronically tracked to see where they ended up.  One was properly recycled, one was sent overseas and one was sent to the landfill.  So discouraging.  Iím still a rabid recycler, but I can see why a lot of people donít bother.  Executives from the plastics industry have admitted that they knew recycling wasnít effective but used it as a ploy to get people to buy plastic over other materials.

Zikoris

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2020, 06:19:08 PM »
Hot take - plastic recycling is pretty close to useless in North America because so many people are piss-poor at at that it's better to focus on either buying things in paper or metal packaging (which is actually recycled well), or focus on eliminating the packaging altogether through buying secondhand or buying from brands that sell things unpackaged.

I feel like plastic recycling is basically a scam that makes people feel good, and worse, prevents people from making actually useful changes to their buying because they're under the mistaken impression that the current system is fine if they just make sure to recycle. I think people would be way more likely to make better buying choices if they knew that, for example, only about 10% of the stuff they recycle actually gets recycled, and everything else end up in landfills, third world countries, and the ocean.

Metalcat

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2020, 04:41:42 AM »
I thought this thread was about recycling parts for building boats??

trollwithamustache

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2020, 02:23:04 PM »
I've made various attempts to recycle more over the years and it turn into a S-show real fast with fees and the recycling places not really taking everything they say they will. My city recycling place even refused scrap steel once. (unpainted steel)  Its easier one county over, but that isn't clear from a simple web search.

So if you can lead by doing, and document how to do it, that would be super helpful. I definitely throw everything away when I do my own boat repairs.


nereo

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2020, 05:32:28 PM »
I thought this thread was about recycling parts for building boats??
Sigh. It was...

MrUpwardlyMobile

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2020, 05:55:44 PM »
It just makes me hate people. And I don't like that.

This is a you problem.  How can you convince people to do what you want.  Whether you think you have a point or not, Forcing your world view on people is going to be received negatively. As said elsewhere, you may be able to inspire people with your actions and badassery.

E.g.: show that you refurbished a junkyard engine for a boat, repaired a garbage hull, salvaged an old sail, repaired a busted old oar. Detail how you did it and show pictures. Make it exciting and cool. Do a step by step guide or make a video. You might actually inspire someone to follow suit. 

As for recycling commercially, thatís a whole big can of worms.  Please realize that many materials arenít very easily recycled or are not commercially recyclable. Many places just chuck their recyclable waste because it isnít economical of there is no demand for the material.  The Atlantic did a nice piece on some of the issues in commercial recycling.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/china-has-stopped-accepting-our-trash/584131/

Ultimately, I would point you to the Reduce, Reuse, recycle mantra. Reducing your usage is most valuable. reusing material you use is second most valuable. recycling is really the least efficient of the three.


Pigeon

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2020, 09:09:50 AM »
You can cheerfully recycle and let others know about your success.  You can provide evidence, if it exists, about recycling actually working.  Make the information available, ,but don't beat people over the head with it.

Other than that, there's nothing that turns people off quite like a self-righteous scold.

ChickenStash

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Re: Fighting with Non-Recyclers
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2020, 09:18:10 AM »
Regarding the "There's no market for these recycled materials" part, perhaps this is a business opportunity in disguise. If the naysayers believe the materials are worthless then it should be easy to get them in bulk for low cost then turn them around for a profit.