Author Topic: Red Pill or Blue Pill, Do you ever one wonder about just taking the blue pill?  (Read 19896 times)

tomsang

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After watching the Matrix, I wondered if it was smart for Neo to take the Red Pill. The real world was pretty messed up and miserable. It would have been easier to just take the Blue Pill and lead his life in the cubicle.

"This is your last chance. After this there is no turning back. You take the blue pill: the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill: you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." - Morpheus, The Matrix

We have always been savers with 30%+, but with salary increases, side gigs and spending cuts we have exceeded 70% the past few years.  Our spending currently would put us squarely in the Antimustachian Wall of Shame, yet we are going through a transition where we don't fit in or have not built strong relationships with mustachians and we are not connecting and our relationships with some of our long term friends is deteriorating as our values are diverging. This appears to be a transitioning period, but it sometimes feels like it would be easier to buy a Tesla, buy a boat, buy fancy clothes, toys, and "live the life".

We value and spend facepunch worthy amounts on trips, concerts, dinner out, kids, and events so we haven't become hermits yet we don't buy the fancy cars, boats, designer clothes, Coach Bags, expensive toys, etc.  We now shop at Value Village, watch what we buy, wife (based on her preference not money) does not die her hair, and just look at most purchases as clutter vs. needs.

Thoughts on the transition, has anyone else gone through the process, any words of wisdom?  This is not dire, just a wrinkle that I was not expecting.

Adventine

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...yet we are going through a transition where we don't fit in or have not built strong relationships with mustachians and we are not connecting and our relationships with some of our long term friends is deteriorating as our values are diverging.

I'm going through this right now as well. It's a bit disorienting. Sometimes very lonely.

Words of wisdom? I don't have any, really. But I sympathize. The temptation to go back to the old ways--to keep up with everyone else--is very strong.

Xavier

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I may get hammered for this opinion, given that I'm a neophyte here (Matrix pun intended), but it looks to me like your doing things very well and have done nothing face-punch worthy.  Perhaps we're just on different parts of the spectrum.  I still aspire to get to the point you're at:

We have always been savers with 30%+, but with salary increases, side gigs and spending cuts we have exceeded 70% the past few years.
-Sounds pretty damn impressive to me.

We value and spend facepunch worthy amounts on trips, concerts, dinner out, kids, and events so we haven't become hermits yet we don't buy the fancy cars, boats, designer clothes, Coach Bags, expensive toys, etc.  We now shop at Value Village, watch what we buy, wife (based on her preference not money) does not die her hair, and just look at most purchases as clutter vs. needs.
-It sounds to me like you value and have given priority to meaningful experiences over unnecessary material possessions.  Nothing to fault there in my books and again, you sound farther along on the path on this than I.  I knew there was a study on  stuff vs. experiences in terms of satisfaction so I dug it up:
http://phys.org/news189277732.html

I'm rambling, which seems to be my forte (edit: spelling :) ) of late, but the red pill/blue pill idea is something that I got lost in thought on this week.  I feel like I'm deprogramming myself to some extent right now in a few areas.

I do feel that 'stuff' has its place.  Even a zen monk may have need of a can opener now and then.  I think the trick is not to make the stuff our master.  Doesn't sound like you have any worries there.

Have a great weekend!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 10:46:49 AM by Xavier »

daverobev

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I think you can fit in while still being intelligent.

That's the problem - it's not that people who have money spend it, it's that *everyone* thinks they are "middle class" (which means something different to me as a Brit than you Americans I think, but still).

If you're doing well, your retirement is on track, you don't have an outrageous amount of debt and you're AWARE of how debt and money and advertising all works - great. You're not stupid, you're an adult, you can make choices.

IMHO mustachianism is at heart a movement to get the people who do NOT have a clue about debt to wake up, do just a little digging and go.. oh, shit, I can't *afford* this stuff even though this company will give me credit! I have to take responsibility for myself!

I dunno. I'm kinda a lonely introvert in a foreign country, so I guess I can't really comment. My adopted family (wife is Canadian) must think I'm pretty strange/cheap.. which I guess I am.

So maybe you, like me, just need "a thing" that means you meet more people who might be on the same page as you. I work remotely for old contacts in the UK so that isn't helping me much. And, for me, the blue pill.. well, would be a job in Canada, and I don't think that's too likely too soon (child due in the next few months, with me going to be stay at home father). Maybe through the child I'll meet people? I think that happens!

Meeting likeminded people when you're in the minority. It's not like there's a "Mustachetown" in large cities! But it'd be cool if there was!

TinyLightsBelow

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It seems obvious that your worry here is social isolation and not too much related to Mustachianism itself. It's really difficult when you step outside the norm in terms of behavior, because you become quick to find that the way that you connected with people dissipates. I had the same issue when I became a vegan because suddenly I couldn't eat anything my friends or family loved to eat, and my peers definitely didn't have interest in hearing me blab on about my ideology. The same could happen if you became an atheist, changed your political views, decided not to use alcohol or smoke, etc.

It really sucks at first but it does get better. Like you said, you haven't forged strong friendships with Mustachians -- yet. But it will happen. And many of your other friends may find they don't have too much in common with you any more, but there will be ones who want to stick around. It's a long and alienating process but there's a light at the end of the tunnel called getting to do what you want AND hang out with great people! Keep persevering.

FunkyStickman

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Most people aren't ready to be unplugged from the Matrix. That doesn't make your reality any less real, it just changes the way you can interact with them.

You can take the red pill, and pretend you didn't, but sooner or later you will hate living a lie.

You can take the blue pill, but since you're already here... that's kind of not an option. You already know the truth.

Or you can take the red pill, go on living like you know the truth, and let things sort themselves out naturally.

If your friends can't wrap their brains around how what you're doing is working, you don't change your beliefs for them. And you probably can't change their beliefs until they are ready to change.

The best thing you can do is just live the example, and let them come to their own conclusions. When they are ready, they will ask questions.

lentilman

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Don't forget that Cypher made a deal with Agent Smith to get back in the Matrix.  So even in the movie people were conflicted about the choice.

I would say that TMND, YMOYL, MMM, etc. are just offering people the pill.  The choice of lifestyle is still open (either way).


DocCyane

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Just remember, if Neo hadn't taken the red pill, he wouldn't have found Trinity.

willn

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we are not connecting and our relationships with some of our long term friends is deteriorating as our values are diverging. This appears to be a transitioning period, but it sometimes feels like it would be easier to buy a Tesla, buy a boat, buy fancy clothes, toys, and "live the life".

We value and spend facepunch worthy amounts on trips, concerts, dinner out, kids, and events so we haven't become hermits yet

Sounds rough. I'd say relationships based on bonding over stuff aren't that satisfying.  Relationships based on values, shared experiences and emotional connection are more satisfying, and the weaknesses in your previous bonds is showing because you now value different things--and that's a positive thing.  I think you'll soon form new bonds with others who now share your values.

Zamboni

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Having formerly lived in a quite affluent neighborhood, I completely relate to what you are saying.  Most of the other ladies at the pool talk only about two topics 1) shopping and 2) their children.  Social issues, politics, interesting books, science, music, or even gardening?  Nada.  My bridge group was slightly better (but not much.)  So, the less I shopped, the less there was to converse about.  Eventually I felt a bit ostracized bc I just couldn't participate in those discussions.  Oh well.

Now I live in a more modest area, and people here are much more interesting imho.  There are definitely more like-minded people here.



MustacheCowboy

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I think Funky nailed it. Stick to your truth and it will work out for you and your family.

Mr Mark

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Just go for it.  F#@k the ones who want to judge you based in the car you drive, the places you eat out at...

Continue to create your own reality, and don't take the blue pill. FIRE at an early age does have a lot of matrix analogues...

Petari

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I would say don't underestimate how much your worldview has now diverged from that of the non-Mustachians you encounter in life. When you keep this in mind, you should feel much less frustrated interacting with non-Mustachians, as you remember that principles like frugality, conscious consumption, the value of purchasing freedom that are mundane to us are new and threatening and unconventional and scary for those who have not gone on this journey of reflection to arrive at the point where you are now.

In terms of relating to other Mustachians...I think one of the most important pillars of Mustachianism is consuming consciously in a manner driven by your values instead of by society's expectations, and doing so in a frugal/efficient manner.  Another aspect of Mustachianism that some people (not all by any means) find important is a struggle or quest to find happiness in ever more simple living, reducing consumption not with the goal of saving more, but with the goal of consuming less in order to lead a happy and fulfilled life.

The short answer I'll give is that if you do the first thing but not the other, some people might say you're doing just fine as a Mustachian, and some might say you're falling short. I'd say you are doing just fine, but slowly, over time, continue to question what really makes you happy and what you need to be fulfilled, and maybe you'll find that it takes less than you originally thought. This is not a debt emergency so radical change is not the answer here, but perhaps there is merit in stepping out of your consumption comfort zone, even if that comfort zone is well within the borders of Mustache-land.

In the end, I think our goal truly is to live life in accordance with our values, and to make money our servant rather than our master.

FiveSigmas

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Hey, Tom. I don't have any words of wisdom, really, but I can empathize. Losing friends is tough (through drift or otherwise). I'm hoping, though, that you aren't losing any close friends just because of different philosophies on money.

I like the Matrix analogy, and I do think making the change from spend-thrift to financially aware can be pretty life-changing, but I don't think it invalidates one's entire pre-MMM existence.

steveo

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I'm lucky. I now earn a pretty good income but most of my friends are losers with no money so its all good. My family and the in-laws are loaded but luckily for me they are also cheap and low class.

My advice is to try and develop friends like me. Ideally you have family that are cheap as well.

dorkus619

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Now I live in a more modest area, and people here are much more interesting imho.  There are definitely more like-minded people here.
^ I like this reply ^

Perhaps moving and/or making new friends would help. Try an inexpensive hobby (geocaching is free if you already have an android phone - c:geo app) to meet new people. Maybe there is a bicycle club/group near you?

SavingMon(k)ey

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I second the "find a bicycle club" idea. For $20/year I have made some great friends who love the outdoors and a hard workout like me. Not all of them have Mustachian ways, since some are way too eager or proud of fancy carbon bikes they ride a handful of times every season. Many have become good friends, though. But you may find another club for another interest (like Sierra Club type thing for hiking), that cost almost nothing or even nothing, and that's where you'll find people who share your values. Gardening club? Book club? I hope there are some options around where you live.

tomsang

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Thanks everyone for all of the advice and suggestions.  As we approach FI, I am realizing that it is becoming less about the math, investments, and returns and more about defining your philosophy and how you are going to live your life. If you start down this path right out of college, then your lifestyle and friends naturally mold into a MMM way of life.  If you start 20 years out of school and then start to make changes it takes awhile before it feels natural.  I think the comparisons to veganism, diets, exercise are probably very inline with the transition. If you were a vegan from an early age, then you would not even understand the difficulties.

From looking at a few of the recent posts on MMM, it seems like people are asking about post FI social life and how to communicate with others. I think as people get to within a few years of FI, the social and the philosophical questions become more relevant. 

Example of recent posts on MMM, include 
1) How do you deal with being rich?
2) Do you tell people you are FI?
3) If you suddenly hit FI, would you stay where you live?

I think I have been focused on getting the numbers to work, and now need to focus on defining what our post FI life is going to look like and start making changes now so it is natural when retirement occurs.

And of course, in the FI world it always comes back to the Trinity Study.     
Just remember, if Neo hadn't taken the red pill, he wouldn't have found Trinity.
Wow!  The more you dig into early retirement, the more parallels to the Matrix pop up.

sol

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I think I have been focused on getting the numbers to work, and now need to focus on defining what our post FI life is going to look like and start making changes now so it is natural when retirement occurs.

Every retirement planning seminar I have ever been to has heavily stressed the notion that you don't retire "from" something, you retire "to" something.  You don't retire to be free of your job, you retire so that you can have the time to pursue something else you already have lined up.   

Too many people retire to daytime television.  Even this notion of "I'll just take a few months off to relax and then get around to finding my real retirement goals" seems dangerous to me.

Mr.Macinstache

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This thread hits pretty close to home to our current situation. The wife has a group of close friends who have lately been making her feel like an outsider (for whatever reason). I used to tolerate them and their husbands for her sake, but have since walked away and have been more frank with her. Most of them were too worried about their social status in the community and material items. When we'd all hang out, the topics were gossip and shallow conversation. No thanks. I told the wife I'd rather not hang out with them but she is welcome to anytime. There's more to life on so many levels.

I find this a lot with groups of people. They are reflections of popular culture, which really is of no interest to me. For us it's sort of hard to fit in because the wife and I are such individuals, there isn't much in common with the majority of folks.

The Matrix is an amazing metaphor for the way things really are. Some people crave to learn the truth and with embrace it, even if its uncomfortable. Others want to run from it. I generally run from people who run from the truth. I simply have a very hard time being friends with someone who does not share a similar philosophies, whether it be about sustainable living, striving for FI or libertarianism. If they don't connect with those, we have to connect on something else, like art, hobbies or activities. But I could never be friends with the anti's, who live a material centric life, spending too much on things, and always talking about things that just don't matter.

I will say this. No one should have any guilt in living a nice lifestyle. As long as they living well below their means and that lifestyle is responsible financially and environmentally conservative. I mean, if MMM wants to travel to Europe once a month, or own a Ferrari, there's no shame in that. He's earned it and he's saving 50%+.

daverobev

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I think I have been focused on getting the numbers to work, and now need to focus on defining what our post FI life is going to look like and start making changes now so it is natural when retirement occurs.

Every retirement planning seminar I have ever been to has heavily stressed the notion that you don't retire "from" something, you retire "to" something.  You don't retire to be free of your job, you retire so that you can have the time to pursue something else you already have lined up.   

Too many people retire to daytime television.  Even this notion of "I'll just take a few months off to relax and then get around to finding my real retirement goals" seems dangerous to me.

That is a *very* good point, and at the moment - I'm sorta retired - I'm finding life a little dull. In 3 months (aaaargh) I'm going to be SAHD which means I'm likely to be quite busy...

So I'm looking at conversion vans so the three of us can go travelling the continent while my wife is on maternity... heh.

Bugger. I might just do it, too!

Mr.Macinstache

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I will never understand the anxiety of "retiring". My parents moaned about it. "What we do all day!?"

Only in America are we afraid to do "nothing". More 1st world problems!

SavingMon(k)ey

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I will never understand the anxiety of "retiring". My parents moaned about it. "What we do all day!?"

Only in America are we afraid to do "nothing". More 1st world problems!
My dad in Brazil was afraid of the same thing. He didn't say it out loud, but he procrastinated on retiring for years. Now he is enjoying himself. I asked him the other day if he's bored. "Not a bit" was his reply. He's enjoying his 2 grandchildren, writing a book, and took up practicing yoga several days a week. He's 72.

mcsemike99

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We have been living like that for a while and we don't worry about it anymore.  We spend for the things we think are right and save a heck of a lot of money.  I still need to work for a few more years, but we are well on our way.  My coworkers just call me cheap, and I just tell them that I am.  It is just words and doesn't affect how we live our lives.  Counting the days when I can walk out the door and do things that make me happier and leave them to be ground down everyday by having to go to jobs they don't like or really want to do.

Mark B

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Tomsang, if I'm reading you right one of the things you're going through is feelings isolation because friends and family don't "get" the MMM lifestyle.  I can relate to that.  The big thing for me regarding "regular" people is that I tend to judge--I need to work at giving them a break for not being able to use logic and tear themselves away from their conventional, consumerism based lifestyles.  This helps for me:

1.  Realize that frugality, or lack of it, is just one facet of a person's whole being.  It's important, but if you were friends with someone before, the things you liked about them are still there.  You can't think like a Scientologist and go all "us" vs. "them".  Or, maybe you have outgrown them, and whatever commonalities you had with them in the first place are no longer there. That's ok too, friendships die natural deaths all the time. 

I think the reason the MMM blog is so popular is that MMM isn't just theoretically talking about FI, he's living it.  So, if you live it and retire early, maybe it'll inspire people in your social circle to do the same thing.

2.  Around people I still want to hang with, I just don't bring the Mustachian stuff up, just like I don't bring up my workout or my diet.  I might casually mention MMM once to a good friend in a one on one situation, and if it doesn't resonate with them, then I don't mention it again.  I can see how it would come off kind of like "hey, let me tell you all about my personal relationship with Jesus".

3.  I still go out with my friends to restaurants.  I just get an iced tea and keep the refills coming.  The first few times people will ask you WTF is up with you, are you not feeling well, but believe me, they'll adjust.  When I'm asked why I'm not eating, I just say I'm not much into eating out, or something like that.  You can work out verbiage that sounds good.  I never launch into the frugality thing in a setting meant for fun. 

4.  I often suggest getting together at someone's house rather than going to some commercial, money sucking establishment.  Again, I never say "let's hang at my place because it's cheaper".   

5.  I remind myself that there is no red pill--in fact, red pill/blue pill is not the best analogy for me.  To me, going back to chasing happiness through stuff isn't possible anymore, It's not in me.  it would be like uninventing the nuclear bomb.  I'm older than most people in this forum, I've made about every financial mistake you can make, and through that I've won some hard earned wisdom.  To go back to a conventional lifestyle would be like a former racist who has had an epiphany still living around racists.

6.  The idea about joining groups is a winner.  Meetup is a great place to find all kinds of groups, and volunteer work can also be very fulfilling.

7.  I don't know where you live, but people are arranging local MMM meetings all over the world through this forum.

One thing--what you said about it being easier for a younger person to adopt the Mustachian lifestyle doesn't ring true with me.  An older person isn't just a young person with more deeply ingrained habits--life is not easy; it can kick your ass, and most folks my age have had a number of good ass kickings.  This leads to some reflection of how you've lived your life, and this reflection leaves you open to change.  The 20 year old me wouldn't have been receptive to frugality at all.  Non-frugality, though, did not work for me, in that I'm not where I would've liked to have been by this age, so I was totally on board not long after I found the MMM blog.

Mr.Macinstache

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That's what it comes down to. Find new friends that share your lifestyle more. So it's not so awkward socializing, you don't stick out and feel awkward. I fell super awkward about debt ridden, spend happy people that value material items more than interesting conversation.

Freeyourchains2

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Is it just me or does any Government or Dictatorship remind me of the AGENTS in the movie?

They want to keep the Matrix flowing smoothly, so they can collect the taxes from the worker spenders. Their very existence depends on the Matrix and it's people.

When you take a Red Pill, they are after you from that point on! Trying to prevent you from unplugging others. They even attempt to make laws to keep you working and to keep you consuming. They also invoke fear into your mind if you attempt to leave the matrix. "$275,000 for a child" "Buy a huge mansion, with a mortgage, you can afford it!" "But you need cable TV, how else will we Advertise to you?"

There are a LOT more analogues hidden in the movie then meets the eye.

Mr.Macinstache

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Is it just me or does any Government or Dictatorship remind me of the AGENTS in the movie?

They want to keep the Matrix flowing smoothly, so they can collect the taxes from the worker spenders. Their very existence depends on the Matrix and it's people.

When you take a Red Pill, they are after you from that point on! Trying to prevent you from unplugging others. They even attempt to make laws to keep you working and to keep you consuming. They also invoke fear into your mind if you attempt to leave the matrix. "$275,000 for a child" "Buy a huge mansion, with a mortgage, you can afford it!" "But you need cable TV, how else will we Advertise to you?"

There are a LOT more analogues hidden in the movie then meets the eye.

Yes the analogies are great in the movie. It's not only governments that want control, its also corporations. They are similar in that they both want order. And they can only do so because a large portion of the people also want that order, and will accept some degree of servitude to be safe and cared for. As well as enjoying a decedent life, even if it means being a slave to debt. Many social circles are like this. Happy in the matrix.

Neo riddles about he machines we built but now cannot tear down, because we need them to survive. I need to watch the whole series again.

impaire

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1.  Realize that frugality, or lack of it, is just one facet of a person's whole being.  It's important, but if you were friends with someone before, the things you liked about them are still there.  You can't think like a Scientologist and go all "us" vs. "them".  Or, maybe you have outgrown them, and whatever commonalities you had with them in the first place are no longer there. That's ok too, friendships die natural deaths all the time. 

(...)

5.  I remind myself that there is no red pill--in fact, red pill/blue pill is not the best analogy for me.  To me, going back to chasing happiness through stuff isn't possible anymore, It's not in me.  it would be like uninventing the nuclear bomb. (...).

One thing--what you said about it being easier for a younger person to adopt the Mustachian lifestyle doesn't ring true with me.  An older person isn't just a young person with more deeply ingrained habits--life is not easy; it can kick your ass, and most folks my age have had a number of good ass kickings.  This leads to some reflection of how you've lived your life, and this reflection leaves you open to change.  The 20 year old me wouldn't have been receptive to frugality at all.  Non-frugality, though, did not work for me, in that I'm not where I would've liked to have been by this age, so I was totally on board not long after I found the MMM blog.

I wanted to quote your entire post, but I stayed reasonable with a few highlights :)

Thank you, this entry really resonated with me, and not because these were things I was already thinking. I definitely need to work on my "us vs. them" mentality as far as consumerism goes, and this is part of the little pushes helping me crystallize a more open-minded approach to fitting in with family members and friends who are consumption-oriented, but not only consumers.

OP, I was raised more or less mustachian, and in my teens and twenties, I really enjoyed spending (a lot) on experience. I am now swinging back to saving more... You can move between the two positions a bit... I guess some of the issue will be to figure out if your friends are really friends, or just acquaintances with (fading) common interests!

Mark B

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Thanks Impaire, and yeah, I can totally relate to the constant struggle between wanting to be frugal and wanting all the slick consumer crap we're constantly being bombarded with.  These advertising guys are experts at getting us to feel that longing in the pit of the stomach.

A few weeks ago I decided I needed a food processor (my old one is in Texas with my ex wife), since I had committed to making my food rather than going out to eat.  I looked at some new ones, but decided it would be best to get one on Craigslist.  Well, I got one, but I'm not sure it qualifies as a Mustachian/frugal purchase.  I got a professional Kitchenaid model that's super powerful and quiet, has a box full of attachments, and is built like a tank.  I'm sure my grand kids will one day be using it.  The thing is, it was $95 (US), which is somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 the price of buying it new, but you can get a modest food processor brand new for less than that.  You can get a decent used one on Craigslist for $25-ish. 

So, not sure if I scored or if I missed the point entirely.  On the way home from this purchase I didn't have that good feeling you get when you know you just chalked up some frugality points.  But it was a cool shiny thing, ooooh, looooook at it.  I imagine myself when I bought it, walking towards it like a zombie with my arms straight out in front of me, my fists full of hard earned money, saying "FOOPROCESS!" instead of "BRAINS!".

Mr.Macinstache

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^ LOL Mark. As long as we can laugh about somethings instead of clutching all of our items with our eyes bugging out, we are better off.

Mr Mark

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Mark b, sounds like a great purchase. Should last forever, perform great, and shouldn't take long to earn its purchase price back. Fret not dude.

footenote

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Mark B - I know an engineer who consulted at Kitchen Aid a few years ago. His conclusion: they over-engineer their products' reliability and longevity. My battleship grey Kitchen Aid stand mixer works as perfectly today as it did the day I bought it over 25 years ago. FOO PROCESS, a-waaaay!

Mr.Macinstache

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It's one of those brands in which you get what you paid for. Top shelf stuff there, and worthy of the price paid.

Mark B

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Thank you all for the feedback, I'm feeling a little better as I make my cauliflower tortillas using my new food processor.  Here's the recipe:

http://slimpalate.com/cauliflower-tortillas-paleo-grain-free-gluten-free/

Mr.Macinstache

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Nice. How'd they turn out? My wife tried to make cauliflower mashed "potatoes" (sans potatoes) and..... eh, not so good.

We are thinking of diving into bread making with almond flour or rice flour. The Udi bread is killing us is at $4.50 a loaf.

Mark B

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Nice. How'd they turn out? My wife tried to make cauliflower mashed "potatoes" (sans potatoes) and..... eh, not so good.

We are thinking of diving into bread making with almond flour or rice flour. The Udi bread is killing us is at $4.50 a loaf.

They were good, actually.  The taste was good.  Not quite as flexible as I would have liked, but that might be because my "cauliflower" was actually one of those broccoli/cauliflower hybrids.  I went to the grocery store first, and they of course had regular cauliflowers, but they were about $3.50.  So, I continued on to the 99 cent store, which had the Broccoflowers, or whatever they're called.  Overall, a success.  And, I got to play with my food processor (yay).

Hey, not sure where you are, Mr.Macinstache (are you even in the US?), but the 99 cent store near me has had a nice variety of Udi's bread items--pizza crusts, bagels, hamburger buns and regular white bread.  Sadly for them and better for me, almost no one who shops at the 99 cent store buys gluten free bread items, so I get the picks of the litter when I feel the need for something that resembles bread. 

I found out about three years ago I'm allergic to wheat, so I've spent quite a bit of time investigating and experimenting with the non-wheat flours--potato, tapioca, brown rice, almond, bean and others that don't spring immediatley to mind.   I also tried Bob's Red Mill prepackaged flours, which I think are very high quality.  My overall conclusion?  Meh.  They'll kind of do if you really feel like you need a starchy fix, but man, to me you can't confuse them with actual yeasty, stretchy, doughy, crispy on the outside bread.  Non-wheat bread is crumbly and the taste is mediocre.  I'll probably continue to make (or buy, if they continue to be available at the 99 cent store) are pizza crusts, because a life without pizza is a life of hardship :-)

But now that I think about it, those cauliflower tortillas would work perfectly as pizza crusts...

EK

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I found out about three years ago I'm allergic to wheat, so I've spent quite a bit of time investigating and experimenting with the non-wheat flours--potato, tapioca, brown rice, almond, bean and others that don't spring immediatley to mind.   I also tried Bob's Red Mill prepackaged flours, which I think are very high quality.  My overall conclusion?  Meh.  They'll kind of do if you really feel like you need a starchy fix, but man, to me you can't confuse them with actual yeasty, stretchy, doughy, crispy on the outside bread.  Non-wheat bread is crumbly and the taste is mediocre.  I'll probably continue to make (or buy, if they continue to be available at the 99 cent store) are pizza crusts, because a life without pizza is a life of hardship :-)

But now that I think about it, those cauliflower tortillas would work perfectly as pizza crusts...

Here ya go- just bookmarked this yesterday:

http://www.eat-drink-smile.com/2011/04/cauliflower-crust-pizza.html

Mark B

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Mr.Macinstache

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Nice. How'd they turn out? My wife tried to make cauliflower mashed "potatoes" (sans potatoes) and..... eh, not so good.

We are thinking of diving into bread making with almond flour or rice flour. The Udi bread is killing us is at $4.50 a loaf.

They were good, actually.  The taste was good.  Not quite as flexible as I would have liked, but that might be because my "cauliflower" was actually one of those broccoli/cauliflower hybrids.  I went to the grocery store first, and they of course had regular cauliflowers, but they were about $3.50.  So, I continued on to the 99 cent store, which had the Broccoflowers, or whatever they're called.  Overall, a success.  And, I got to play with my food processor (yay).

Hey, not sure where you are, Mr.Macinstache (are you even in the US?), but the 99 cent store near me has had a nice variety of Udi's bread items--pizza crusts, bagels, hamburger buns and regular white bread.  Sadly for them and better for me, almost no one who shops at the 99 cent store buys gluten free bread items, so I get the picks of the litter when I feel the need for something that resembles bread. 

I found out about three years ago I'm allergic to wheat, so I've spent quite a bit of time investigating and experimenting with the non-wheat flours--potato, tapioca, brown rice, almond, bean and others that don't spring immediatley to mind.   I also tried Bob's Red Mill prepackaged flours, which I think are very high quality.  My overall conclusion?  Meh.  They'll kind of do if you really feel like you need a starchy fix, but man, to me you can't confuse them with actual yeasty, stretchy, doughy, crispy on the outside bread.  Non-wheat bread is crumbly and the taste is mediocre.  I'll probably continue to make (or buy, if they continue to be available at the 99 cent store) are pizza crusts, because a life without pizza is a life of hardship :-)

But now that I think about it, those cauliflower tortillas would work perfectly as pizza crusts...

Ah, I wish there was a 99 cent store here... sounds like awesome deals on the GF stuff!. I'm in Missouri, smaller town. My options are limited to Super Wal Mart, Schnucks, Target, Aldi and the farmers market.

Mark B

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Ah, I wish there was a 99 cent store here... sounds like awesome deals on the GF stuff!. I'm in Missouri, smaller town. My options are limited to Super Wal Mart, Schnucks, Target, Aldi and the farmers market.

Too bad...but the view out your window is probably much nicer than mine.

Mr Mark

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Costco does some decent bulk gluten free flours.

James81

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In the words of Dave Ramsey:

"If you live like no one else, then later you can live like no one else."

Or take this analogy if you will:

A lot of people when they quit smoking gain a bunch of weight. For many people who quit and then go back to it, they cite the weight gain as the reason why. But the reality is, that's just the addiction talking. The addiction will put whatever thoughts in your mind that will cause you to keep choosing your old path over and over, even if the solution is completely illogical and crazy.

The desire to go back "to keep up" is sort of like choosing cigarettes as a way to maintain your weight. It's a matter of thoughts and thought processes, and it's so easy to reach for old, ineffective solutions to our problems.

Imagine, however, if you could create a new solution this problem. Imagine the former smoker realizing that his weight gain isn't being CAUSED by the lack of smoking, it's being caused by the void that's left by leaving an old habit behind.

Imagine, then, that your new feelings, the ones that urge you back to a lifestyle or excess, are caused by that very same void.

The solution isn't to go back to your lifestyle. The solution is to find new and creative ways to fill the void.

Bigote

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Never having seen the Matrix, I thought this thread was about a different blue pill....

Mr.Macinstache

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Ah, I wish there was a 99 cent store here... sounds like awesome deals on the GF stuff!. I'm in Missouri, smaller town. My options are limited to Super Wal Mart, Schnucks, Target, Aldi and the farmers market.

Too bad...but the view out your window is probably much nicer than mine.

I'm looking at a wall of bricks outside my window right now. LoL! I'm jealous you can buy the Udi stuff at the 99 cent store. They must be test marketing or just selling overstock?

Either, time to put this bread maker to work for us...

Mark B

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yeah I think it's overstock, so I'm afraid it's a temporary thing.  My waistline is saying "thank god for that".


Mark B

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LOL Bigote.  As a (ahem) mature man, that blue pill is still A-OK with me. 

mgreczyn

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Man I hope to do that transition someday.  First I need to transition from winding-down-gig-in-contracting-industry to making so much money on salary, side gigs and investments that I can live the life I want and still only spend 30% of income.  It seems like you ARE spending a lot of money on things that add value to your life, such as concerts, trips, etc.  The question would be does any of that other stuff add value to your life, or would you literally just be buying it to fit in?  For example, at a certain income level, a Tesla could be a very mustachian purchase, but if you have no interest in the technology or the car then you would hate it every time you saw it.  A boat?  I don't know, do you like boats?  It's probably not the possessions themselves that gain you entry into the club your former or soon to be former friends are members of.  It's the pursuit of the new, fancy, shiny thing/experience/membership.  The cult of exclusivity. It's a bottomless pit, no matter how deep you go somebody else has gone deeper and is taunting you from the depths.  Got a Tesla?  How can you not get the boat to go with it?  And no, you cannot park said boat in anything less than the best, most exclusive marina.  Also, you have to be in a fancy country club so you can show off the Tesla even more. Are you a billionaire?  Now you need your own super-yacht and America's Cup team.  Etc. etc. etc.  I think that having taken the red pill that life would make you straight up miserable.  Don't sweat it, live the way you and your wife want to.

NestEggChick (formerly PFgal)

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One thing that might help is joining one of the MMM meetup groups. If there isn't one in your area, create one!
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/meetups-and-social-events/

I've been to a few in my area and it's great to be around people who just get it. It might help you feel a bit less isolated.

tomsang

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For Bigote and others who haven't seen the Matrix - You should go see the movie, but if you want a spoiler here is a clip on the scene about the Red Pill and the Blue Pill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCUhFZnxoBU