Recruiter called from my old megacorp!

[Fru-Gal]

I guess I am happy *someone* noticed I left LOL

They asked if I'd consider returning. Nominally it's a higher position, and in a better org than I was in. I understand this may just be a recruiter desperately trying to hit his numbers in the current shortage. He did say he had reviewed my experience & it was a fit.

Should I take the call? Would my old crazy boss torpedo it (AFAIK there were no documented problems in my HR file, he was just a nutter)?

I am enjoying life so much without work. And dream of finally doing great stuff with my passion project. Feel like I am just getting the mental space after 4 months to be more creative/generative in my passion project.

OTOH returning to megacorp has advantages in that I wouldn't have to figure out how everything works there or what the culture is, I already know that. And 401k can pick right up where it left off. And of course I would ask for a significant raise or no dice.

Probably leaning toward no.

Thoughts?

[Dicey]

I think I can see you leaning from here.

[reeshau]

Are you worried about money?

It doesn't sound like you are bored...

Is this a regular, full-time job?  Limited-time project?  Part time work?  Work from home?

It sounds like you aren't looking for something.  And I see a paradox:  if this is a short-term gig, then you just decompressed for nothing, and will have to do it again.  But, do you want a long-term gig?

Take the flattery, but I would only say yes if it fit something I was looking for, not to go back to the indefinite grind I had just left.

[Fru-Gal]

Ironically I was just telling a friend yesterday that if I *did* get a job again, or really in everything I did, I was going to be more intentional and less reactive to just taking whatever comes along, which is what I often do.

Love the point about decompression!

As for money, I mean, what I have should be fine. This would just be going back to OMY for no great need.

But thank you for allowing me to boast!

And love your signature, @Dicey. Good reminder.

[jrhampt]

I might call them back to find out what they are offering...

[Villanelle]

I'd probably take the call and see what they might offer.  Massive salary and the part-time and/or WFH?  Since you don't need a job, you have all the bargaining power to either make this something that sounds worthwhile--whatever that looks like for you--or walk away. 

[cool7hand]

It never hurts to talk

[JLee]

It's worth a call - you can always decline.

[Ladychips]

Why? I could be way off base but it appears you are flattered ( and why not). Is that any reason to go back to the alarm clocks, and clothes that match, and eating in a break room instead of doing whatever you want every day and following your passions? I say take the feel good request for the positive it is and move on. But I could be wrong...

[Fru-Gal]

Oh, flattered is exactly what I am! 😂

[zolotiyeruki]

Why? I could be way off base but it appears you are flattered ( and why not). Is that any reason to go back to the alarm clocks, and clothes that match, and eating in a break room instead of doing whatever you want every day and following your passions? I say take the feel good request for the positive it is and move on. But I could be wrong...

I'm seeing a lot of "here is a list of bad things that wouldn't happen if I took this job," and not a lot of "here is how I would benefit from taking this job."  Why would you abandon something you're passionate about, just because "it's a good fit"?  You're FIRE.  You don't need this job.  You don't need ANY job.

In order for this job to be worth it, it has to fulfill a need you have.  It seems that "more money" isn't one of those needs. Nor does the work appear to be more enjoyable than your current slate of activities.  Sure, it's great to have your ego stroked by getting an offer, but what would keep you working once that dopamine hit has passed?

[BeanCounter]

No! No!
There is a reason you walked away. Trust me when I tell you (from experience) it’s not any better there than when you left. Not even remotely. In fact it’s probably worse.

[FIRE 20/20]

I think that usually writing a list of benefits and drawbacks of two options isn't very helpful, but I feel like it might be in this case.  If there are a ton of benefits and few drawbacks then sure, talk with them.  But I suspect the list of benefits won't be very long after "more money that I don't need".  If on the other hand it's in a field you have a passion for, you think this new position will allow you to accomplish things you couldn't on your own, or you're bored and this job will be better than the passion project you're working on then sure.  There's someone on this board (I forgot who) who took a job post-FIRE doing some kind of world-saving work and is donating their full salary to charity.  I think they have kids at home so they aren't able to do a lot of the things they want to do in FIRE so it made sense for them to go back to do good things on the job and then doing good things with the money they're earning.  But that kind of job is rare. 

[Fru-Gal]

There is a reason you walked away. Trust me when I tell you (from experience) it’s not any better there than when you left. Not even remotely. In fact it’s probably worse.

Well it got interesting today, a phone call from super cool friend at megacorp who wants me on their project, plus their boss and the recruiter reaching out again. So this is a very specific request based on their knowledge of my unique skill set. The salary range is higher than what I had, not to astronomical levels but certainly would be able to pad cash and savings massively since I live on $36k. I would definitely draw a line in the sand and go no lower than a 75% raise if it came to that.

Yes, based on the conversation, all the dysfunction is still there (though some of the worst leaders have left), but the job is meant to end-run around all that. Which is perhaps what happens at every megacorp, just people trying to secretly be productive before the corporate immune system shuts them down?

Anyway I still think no but ...

Edit to add: This is also a wonderful observation that reminds me of that endless slog feeling that I had while working there...

what would keep you working once that dopamine hit has passed?

[Villanelle]

There is a reason you walked away. Trust me when I tell you (from experience) it’s not any better there than when you left. Not even remotely. In fact it’s probably worse.

Well it got interesting today, a phone call from super cool friend at megacorp who wants me on their project, plus their boss and the recruiter reaching out again. So this is a very specific request based on their knowledge of my unique skill set. The salary range is higher than what I had, not to astronomical levels but certainly would be able to pad cash and savings massively since I live on $36k. I would definitely draw a line in the sand and go no lower than a 75% raise if it came to that.

Yes, based on the conversation, all the dysfunction is still there (though some of the worst leaders have left), but the job is meant to end-run around all that. Which is perhaps what happens at every megacorp, just people trying to secretly be productive before the corporate immune system shuts them down?

Anyway I still think no but ...

Based on this post, I think you should probably turn it down.  Or at a minimum, as for a HUGE salary, and other favorable terms (part time, WFH at least part of the time, etc.).  If they won't do that, you return to your happy life as it was before these calls.

[Fru-Gal]

This brings me to an interesting question. There have been a few points in my life where I achieved something noteworthy and then had the sense that I should somehow use that as a launching point for something else. This usually led to short term disappointment. Over time (decades), however, the accomplishments fertilized my experience/reputation/skill/earnings.

I get the same sense here where it's like, oh, my skills are noted and valued, how can I use that interest as a launch for my passion project? But perhaps it's a misplaced desire I have to always integrate everything. And the megacorp job was both a career apex and a dead end?

[Fru-Gal]

It is WFH, by the way

[clifp]

Part-time, WFH with a nice raise I think I'd be tempted.
$36,000 is not a ton of money, especially in inflationary times.
Worse case, you can always quit.

[Gremlin]

This brings me to an interesting question. There have been a few points in my life where I achieved something noteworthy and then had the sense that I should somehow use that as a launching point for something else. This usually led to short term disappointment. Over time (decades), however, the accomplishments fertilized my experience/reputation/skill/earnings.

I get the same sense here where it's like, oh, my skills are noted and valued, how can I use that interest as a launch for my passion project? But perhaps it's a misplaced desire I have to always integrate everything. And the megacorp job was both a career apex and a dead end?

One thing I've heard is that people significantly overestimate what they'll achieve in a year, but typically significantly underestimate what they'll achieve in a decade.  And I think it's true.  If you are tying your passion piece to a specific launch point, then it's probably leaning towards a short term measure of achievement.  If it's a true passion piece, then it doesn't matter how long it take to achieve it.  In a decade's time, you'll almost certainly have surpassed every expectation you ever had if you stick with it.

[shureShote]

Certainly sounds interesting, and with WFH you’d be able to avoid some of the annoyances. But man, as someone said, you left for a reason, and it may feel bad if some of the old feelings come back and you leave after a short time (I mean, being gone and fine financially will heal those wounds quickly,  but still).

Definitely make sure the terms are worth it for you.

[reeshau]

I know It's project work, but did they give you a time frame?  Can you give them one?

To your point about launching:  Now that you have some experience with your passions, is there something that "moar money" would enhance?  A backyard studio for art?  Self-funded film or album?  Big donation to favored charity, which you could the  leverage to the good?  Something to make up for lost time in pursuing the passion.

Maybe those would get your juices flowing.  In any case, the biggest perk I would go for is a limited time.

Also, you live on $36k now.  But what would going to work (even if normally / maybe 100% WFH)  faster / more reliable internet?  Still some clothes / wardrobe / morning toiletries to prepare to be on screen?  More packaged or delivered meals, because you are back to being busy?  More help around the house?

[jrhampt]

I'd be tempted if it's WFH and a big raise with a co-worker you like on a project you like.  Unlike the poster above alludes to, I'm never onscreen so don't even have a work wardrobe anymore, and the lack of commute means I have plenty of time to do chores and make meals.  WFH alleviates a LOT of what I dislike about work.  And I'm at a megacorp, too.

[Rdy2Fire]

Ask for more, ask for what you think is a number that might something they would never say yes to but not insane. If they give to you then go back, if you don't they made your decision for you :) Oh and ask for an extra weeks vacation too

[Rosy]

1. You are FIRE but
 given the current economic situation and potential developments,
 $36K would make me slightly uneasy for the future.
Therefore,
2. I'd give this offer due consideration and like someone already mentioned ask for more than you think they will offer.
Both, significant higher salary negotiations and really good offers don't come along that often.

3. Everything in life is a trade-off - use your time and your life energy to increase your stash and financial security only if it makes financial sense and does not prevent you from going back to your true passion within an acceptable time frame.

My advice - don't do part-time - it has a way of interfering with your freedom and projects tend to spill over or require overtime.
Do whatever it takes long enough to suit your own goals - remember to live life on your own terms.

Fire is the best but there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of a good offer when it comes your way if it bolsters your position and you and your passions benefit in the long run.

[Fru-Gal]

Thx for all the feedback.

Loved the point about what to do with more money because that got me thinking in my preferred direction.

So the best thing was the day I got the call from the colleague. I felt rich and desirable all day LOL!

Then I spoke to the recruiter. At the end, when pressed, I said I was looking for a specific salary as a starting range. While he agreed that was indeed the market rate for my skill set, he said that wasn't the budget, but he'd ask. He also said the "rank" was the level I was at or one below. I said I'd only want the rank I was at or one higher. It was a quick, good convo and he said I should apply.

So I've been avoiding even clicking the link to the job description. Just now I did. There's none of the cool stuff that my colleague had mentioned (which they knew were my strong suit). And a lot of bureaucratic crap that I am the worst at!

Anyway we all (in the family) got really excited about getting really rich but now I'm over it. I just now politely declined. I won't share the numbers because that will skew people. They are high. Funny how much life changes you, these were salaries I wouldn't have dreamed of years ago.

But I also believe life involves side quests and that side quest is done. And this week I worked on 2 small jobs that clients requested for my passion project that took all my spare time. So I can legitimately say that, even if not financially speaking, my passion project is taking too much time for me to go back to corporate at the moment.

[Ladychips]

I love that you got the warm fuzzies from getting the call but I also really love that it didn't turn you away from the things you care most about.  Yea you!!

[Dicey]

I love that you got the warm fuzzies from getting the call but I also really love that it didn't turn you away from the things you care most about.  Yea you!!

Yes, there is definitely an echo in here.

[Fru-Gal]

I am definitely in strange territory now. My friend at megacorp just called and said they will make this salary offer & job description as attractive as possible to me, said what if I just do it for a year, said I have the talent unlike no other they've seen (this is true, I can say modestly LOL), they will run interference on all the parts of megacorp I don't want to deal with... I will wait to see if indeed more is forthcoming. Weird.

[jeromedawg]

Any chance they could bring you on as a consultant? This way you have more flexibility with your time and I would think should be able to command an even higher rate (at the expense of not having certain benefits).

[shureShote]

That is a little bizarre. Not that you don't have mad skills, but it is just weird. In my 20+ years at several megacorps, people come and go. Some really damn good people go. But somehow we keep innovating, keep releasing new and cheaper products (cheaper made...not to buy).

This just became more intriguing.

[jrhampt]

I am definitely in strange territory now. My friend at megacorp just called and said they will make this salary offer & job description as attractive as possible to me, said what if I just do it for a year, said I have the talent unlike no other they've seen (this is true, I can say modestly LOL), they will run interference on all the parts of megacorp I don't want to deal with... I will wait to see if indeed more is forthcoming. Weird.

Sweet!  Take them for all their worth, and I wonder if you can negotiate a 4 day workweek too.

[jrhampt]

Out of curiosity, what is your field of expertise?

[zolotiyeruki]

I am definitely in strange territory now. My friend at megacorp just called and said they will make this salary offer & job description as attractive as possible to me, said what if I just do it for a year, said I have the talent unlike no other they've seen (this is true, I can say modestly LOL), they will run interference on all the parts of megacorp I don't want to deal with... I will wait to see if indeed more is forthcoming. Weird.

They say they want to make it as attractive as possible for you...and yet they were looking to hire you back at an equal or lower rank, and your higher salary requirements were "not in the budget."

If you decide you want to pursue this, there are a couple things I would suggest:  1) decide a firm set of boundaries before you decide to return.  These can be mutually-agreed-upon boundaries between you and megacorp and/or private "if X happens, I will quit" type boundaries you discuss only with your family. 2) Don't trust any verbal promises or agreements.  Any perk, any "you don't have to deal with bureaucratic garbage" condition, what project you'll be working on, any compensation or end date or anything needs to be documented in writing.

[Fru-Gal]

I'd rather not say my field but I do have a rare skill set. I love the 4-day workweek idea.

Upon reflection, I can remember a few people who were pursued & well rewarded (one, I remember, had left and was wooed back quickly). I felt more like a pinball while I was there, but this colleague does genuinely know what I can do.

Having said all that, I still consider this the brainchild of that one colleague. I have no idea *how much* their management is on board.

I don't think I'd want to be a consultant because I was one for this company before being hired the first time. While they pay well and on time, there are additional requirements (biz insurance and documented invoices, for example) that I found annoying. And frankly if it were for enough money then I might as well be employed with benefits as I'd no longer qualify for ACA subsidies.

And yes, I agree everything must be documented, I'm not just going on compliments and good feels.

[reeshau]

Just like the current, crazy housing market can make people do stupid things like bid over ask, waive inspections, etc., the current crazy employment market can make companies consider crazy things, too.

Do you have any time limit in your decision making?  For example, are you putting off something else while you are waiting on the outcome of this?  Or do you expect to commit a lot of time to something in the coming months, that this would replace?

If not, then I would expect you have a lot of leverage in the discussion.  Because if this truly is project work, and is an approved project, then this likely has a ticking clock already.

Asymmetric pressure is always a great advantage in negotiation.  If they deliver it to you in writing on a silver platter, then maybe it's a fun distraction.

[clarkfan1979]

If it was me, I would take the call. I would be very specific on my working terms so it didn't interfere with my current passion projects. That would probably be something like 10-15 hours/week and work from home. I personally wouldn't ask for a raise. If they wanted me to go back to work with my butt in the seat for 50+ hours/week, it would be a hard no, even if they doubled my salary.

[ChpBstrd]

Would this solve a problem?

Example problems:

Need a surgery in 4 months and it sure would be nice to have better insurance.

Market losses hurt your portfolio and OMY sounds better than longevity risk.

You want to buy something big that isn't in the budget.
     
When you quit, you just wanted out, but now that you're free you want to raise funds for charity, a college fund, or an inheritance.

You crashed your car into your house, burning both down, and were self-insured.

[Fru-Gal]

Great points, @ChpBstrd.

Well a few days have gone by and I haven't heard anything, nor have I done the typical things one does if interested in a job such as fill out the application or send a thank you note. I suspect my friend may not have the power to make a larger offer, but also I don't really care. And I've been working super hard on passion project stuff, with results to show for it!

Funny thing, my mom seems very interested in me taking it, because she's comparing me to her retirement journey (also commenced in her 50s): She thinks I'm too young to retire early because I'm younger than she was, therefore I should go back "just for 6 months". She was also concerned I'm not using my intellect, but I assured her I am, in my own projects.

[bacchi]

Funny thing, my mom seems very interested in me taking it, because she's comparing me to her retirement journey (also commenced in her 50s): She thinks I'm too young to retire early because I'm younger than she was, therefore I should go back "just for 6 months". She was also concerned I'm not using my intellect, but I assured her I am, in my own projects.

My mom, 5 years in, still asks how the job search is going. Then again, she still forgets about me being a vegetarian and it's been over 20 years.

[Fru-Gal]

😆 😆

[jnw]

Sounds like you might like working again?  It isn't work if you like it right? I mean you still have the power to say FU at any time!

Might be a good idea to take the job due to:

1) Inflation (as mentioned above)

2) The possibility of market continuing to drop a good amount and go sideways for a decade or longer, who knows?--I mean it did after Black Tuesday in 1929 where the CAPE wasn't even as bad as it is now.  In this case, you'd be putting money back into the market at discount stock prices.  You could also max out I-bonds if you wanted which protect your cash from any future inflation.

Unemployment is at record lows and it doesn't even account for all the people returning to the work force from retirement -- people needing to work due to increasing prices; I watched a few stories in the recent days of retirees returning to work.  So job demand is very high so that's why you got the job offer I imagine.  But at the same time I am hearing a lot of talk about layoffs recently and companies trying to cut costs.  So if you want to return to work and secure a nice job, now might be a good time versus a year from now when the unemployment numbers go back up?