Author Topic: recommended router?  (Read 6285 times)

Case

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
recommended router?
« on: October 18, 2018, 10:49:48 AM »
Can anyone recommend a router?  I am about to move to northern Delaware... haven't figured out the internet provider yet, but I'm assuming I'll not want to use the default router that is provided...

DavidDoes

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 12:40:51 PM »
It's expensive, but we haven't touched our ASUS router since I set it up almost three years ago.

CoffeeR

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Location: Southwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 12:48:59 PM »
I presume you mean wireless router. If not, please clarify.

Depends on how much money you want to spend, what kind of functionality you want and what coverage you need. I have the Asus AC1900 ($140 at Amazon) and it works well though I no longer use the router capabilities (I use it as a dumb access point). If I were in the market for a nicer/newer model wireless router I would go with the Asus AC2900 @ $180. I see very little reason and benefit to going even higher end then this and you will likely no get better coverage regardless of the advertising. For better coverage use multiple wireless routers perhaps in a mesh setup.

If you want to save money, some of the lower priced TP-Link models will probably work just fine.

ketchup

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4308
  • Age: 30
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 12:52:40 PM »
If you want to save money, some of the lower priced TP-Link models will probably work just fine.
+1

I bought a $60 simple TP-Link a few years back and it's been solid.  Could easily pull 400mbps over 5Ghz at reasonable ranges.

If you want extra fun and geekery, pick up some Ubiquiti gear (probably a USG and a couple APs) and customize the fuck out of it.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8474
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2018, 12:58:36 PM »
If you want to save money, some of the lower priced TP-Link models will probably work just fine.

I agree, but so far I've been shocked that mustachians have recommended a bunch of routers that cost over $50.  Do you all drive BMWs, too?

There are multiple Wireless N routers for $19.99 that will do 300 Mbps, like the TP-Link N300.  If you spend more than $25, you're getting taken for a ride. 

neo von retorch

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3814
  • Location: SE PA
    • Fi@retorch - personal finance tracking
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2018, 01:00:54 PM »
Case

We have a TP-Link Archer C7. Lately this has been showing up on sale at Amazon and B&H for $50-60. It's nothing fancy and it's not bullet proof. But it's probably plenty.

Also - once you decide on an ISP, circle back, as you might be on the hook for renting a modem, but you can usually buy one for $40-60 and save a bunch each month on rental. (Most rentals are combo modem/routers, but if you only buy a router, you might still need to rent. Modern FiOS does not require a modem, but most (all?) cable internet still does.)

rugorak

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2018, 02:17:04 PM »
I'm an IT nerd. I do it for a living, so I can tend to be picky. Ultimately like most things you can go insane with it if you want. I did spend quite a bit compared to most on my router, but I also used my last router for 15 years. And I plan on using my current one as long.

I wanted a router that could do DD-WRT. It is open source firmware. I also wanted the latest hardware so I could get as much life out of it as possible.

If you are like most people a cheap $50 or less router will do. Hell an old Linksys WRT54G or WRT54GL will work. The GL is what I had. Still works fantastic except the radio could only do B/G. I quick search and you can get one of those for about $30 new. Just make sure the vendor is decent and puts out firmware updates frequently enough to fix bugs/vulnerabilities. And honestly if you are buying it today and want it to last make sure it can do AC. N is older already and if you are like most of us

And as others said make sure that you are not going to be paying for it anyway. I bought my cable modem years ago and therefore do not have to pay for either. But some ISP's make you. If you are geeky like me you wouldn't want it anyway as I like to be able to tweak it and lock it down. But if you aren't like that you really won't care.

tyler2016

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 124
    • Tyler's Guides
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2018, 06:21:38 PM »
IT guy here.

I would buy something cheap that you can load OpenWRT https://openwrt.org on. OpenWRT is generally much better than the crappy software most cheap routers come with. I have a cheap TP LINK. With the factory software, I had to reboot it regularly, it would stop working with the microwave on, and it was slow. I don't mean slow as in can't stream 4k video, but slow as in when working remotely, even my command line sessions with tiny bits of text would become almost unusable. OpenWRT fixed all of those problems.

Case

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2018, 07:26:32 PM »
Can anyone recommend a router?  I am about to move to northern Delaware... haven't figured out the internet provider yet, but I'm assuming I'll not want to use the default router that is provided...

Thank you all for the info!
Currently looking at Verizon FiOS.  Although I don't necessarily want to go with a company like that, they are relatively inexpensive, even after the one year price hike.  Main drawback is you need to get their modem.... I think.  I might did in to see if this is truly required.

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 889
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 09:18:38 PM »
It's expensive, but we haven't touched our ASUS router since I set it up almost three years ago.

T-mobile website is selling their cellspot router for 39$... It's just a rebrand of the acclaimed asus RT68U aka Asus AC1900... It goes for 180$.

You can buy the t mobile one for 39$ and save 140. It's the best router you can have especially for only 40$

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2018, 09:49:15 PM »
It's expensive, but we haven't touched our ASUS router since I set it up almost three years ago.

T-mobile website is selling their cellspot router for 39$... It's just a rebrand of the acclaimed asus RT68U aka Asus AC1900... It goes for 180$.

You can buy the t mobile one for 39$ and save 140. It's the best router you can have especially for only 40$

It's listed at $50 on my end. It's a shame about the firmware, though.

neo von retorch

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3814
  • Location: SE PA
    • Fi@retorch - personal finance tracking
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2018, 05:07:10 AM »
Most modern FiOS installations end with a Cat5e Ethernet cable. They will try to sell or rent you their expensive Quantum router but you don't need it. Just get your own WiFi Gigabit router.

MrSal

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 889
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2018, 05:09:04 AM »
It's expensive, but we haven't touched our ASUS router since I set it up almost three years ago.

T-mobile website is selling their cellspot router for 39$... It's just a rebrand of the acclaimed asus RT68U aka Asus AC1900... It goes for 180$.

You can buy the t mobile one for 39$ and save 140. It's the best router you can have especially for only 40$

It's listed at $50 on my end. It's a shame about the firmware, though.

Coupon CPOROUT brings it to 39,95 :)

As for firmware, you can flash it back to original. Plenty of tutorials around. The only thing that is missing is the mesh capability... For normal users I think it's fine

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2018, 06:54:07 AM »
As for firmware, you can flash it back to original. Plenty of tutorials around. The only thing that is missing is the mesh capability... For normal users I think it's fine

Except the bootlader has been locked now, features specifically deactivated, and distribution of the firmware necessary to sideload other firmware falls into a legally gray area in the United States with licensing and the more useless bits of copyright and radio spectrum laws... plus, the default firmware has its own problems, and it's designed to serve T-Mobile first, not its "owner".
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 06:56:51 AM by Daley »

BigRed

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 203
  • Age: 45
  • Location: NJ
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2018, 11:36:34 AM »
Case

We have a TP-Link Archer C7. Lately this has been showing up on sale at Amazon and B&H for $50-60. It's nothing fancy and it's not bullet proof. But it's probably plenty.

Also - once you decide on an ISP, circle back, as you might be on the hook for renting a modem, but you can usually buy one for $40-60 and save a bunch each month on rental. (Most rentals are combo modem/routers, but if you only buy a router, you might still need to rent. Modern FiOS does not require a modem, but most (all?) cable internet still does.)

Any recommendations for Cable Modems?

CoffeeR

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Location: Southwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2018, 12:54:33 PM »
Any recommendations for Cable Modems?
I use ARRIS cable modems. Make sure, that you get a cable modem that handles the speed you need (and pay for). So the number of downstream channels is usually 4,8,16,24,32 and the number of upstream channels is usually 4,8 and so on. make sure the cable modem is at least a DOCSIS 3.0 (most/all new ones are these days). DOCSIS 3.1 is available but more expensive.

The number of channels determines the maximum upload and download speed. For example, a 16x4 DOCSIS 3.0 cable modem has 16 downstream channels for a max download speed of about 600+ Mbps and upload of speed of about 100+ Mbps. In general the fewer the channels the lower the cost of the cable modem. Note your ISP has to provision those channels! The channels on the cable modem just determine the maximum speed the cable modem is capable of and will determine the maximum download/upload speed you can purchase from your ISP. Make sure your ISP supports the cable modem you wish to purchase (they generally do).
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 07:52:46 PM by CoffeeR »

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6724
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2018, 12:57:06 PM »
If you want to save money, some of the lower priced TP-Link models will probably work just fine.

I agree, but so far I've been shocked that mustachians have recommended a bunch of routers that cost over $50.  Do you all drive BMWs, too?

There are multiple Wireless N routers for $19.99 that will do 300 Mbps, like the TP-Link N300.  If you spend more than $25, you're getting taken for a ride.

lol.  I have a Ubiquiti Unifi USG, 8 port POE switch, and Unifi AC Pro access point managed via Cloud Key. I run multiple SSIDs across two apartments in my building.

It was more than $25. It's also 100% rock solid stable and will run basically forever without instability, hiccups, or reboots.

Most modern FiOS installations end with a Cat5e Ethernet cable. They will try to sell or rent you their expensive Quantum router but you don't need it. Just get your own WiFi Gigabit router.

If you're getting gigabit FIOS, buying a cheap router is silly because you're not going to see the speeds you're paying for.  The Quantum router does a surprisingly good job for being an ISP-provided device.

If you have 100Mbps FIOS, then yeah - you can pretty much use anything.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 12:58:47 PM by JLee »

CoffeeR

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Location: Southwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2018, 01:04:46 PM »
If the OP were the kind of person that would flash router firmware and use POE I am not sure they would have posted the question they did. I have a dedicated pfSense router and somebody else I am sure has a Cisco ASR edge router in their home. Are these the kind of solutions you would recommend to your non-tech family and friends *if* you are not the one setting it up and maintaining it?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 07:48:46 PM by CoffeeR »

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6724
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2018, 01:20:54 PM »
If the OP were the kind of person that would flash router firmware and use POE I am not sure they would have posted the question they did. I have a dedicated pfSense router and somebody else I am sure has Cisco ASR edge router in their home. Are these the kind of solutions you would recommend to your non-tech family and friends *if* you are not the one setting it up and maintaining it?

The Verizon router is surprisingly good -- for a FIOS install, I would strongly consider just buying that.

For non-tech people, I usually defer to Wirecutter's recommendations, likely the TP-Link Archer A7 in this case: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-router/

Case

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2018, 09:58:33 AM »
If the OP were the kind of person that would flash router firmware and use POE I am not sure they would have posted the question they did. I have a dedicated pfSense router and somebody else I am sure has a Cisco ASR edge router in their home. Are these the kind of solutions you would recommend to your non-tech family and friends *if* you are not the one setting it up and maintaining it?

This is correct, i have no idea what you guys are talking about.

I could learn more about modems, but can only learn so many things with available time, therefore going for the most efficient KISS solution.  I mostly just want something that is secure, as at some point i goti the impression the default routers by ISPs are vulnerable.  I assume most routers have sufficient speed.

Case

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 808
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2018, 09:59:16 AM »
If the OP were the kind of person that would flash router firmware and use POE I am not sure they would have posted the question they did. I have a dedicated pfSense router and somebody else I am sure has Cisco ASR edge router in their home. Are these the kind of solutions you would recommend to your non-tech family and friends *if* you are not the one setting it up and maintaining it?

The Verizon router is surprisingly good -- for a FIOS install, I would strongly consider just buying that.

For non-tech people, I usually defer to Wirecutter's recommendations, likely the TP-Link Archer A7 in this case: https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-wi-fi-router/

Thanks, and i appreciate the link..

CoffeeR

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Location: Southwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2018, 08:19:53 AM »
I mostly just want something that is secure, as at some point i goti the impression the default routers by ISPs are vulnerable.  I assume most routers have sufficient speed.
I know of no solution that is always secure. Security does require regular software/firmware updates and for that you want a vendor that supports there products longer term. The problem is that *none* of the maintain consumer vendors of routers (Asus, TP-Link, Netgear, etc.) are consistently good at this. You have the recommendations here (I'd probably go with Asus, TP-Link or Netgear), but regardless of what you choose, do keep your router firmware updated (if updates are available).

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2018, 08:49:19 AM »
I mostly just want something that is secure, as at some point i goti the impression the default routers by ISPs are vulnerable.  I assume most routers have sufficient speed.
I know of no solution that is always secure. Security does require regular software/firmware updates and for that you want a vendor that supports there products longer term. The problem is that *none* of the maintain consumer vendors of routers (Asus, TP-Link, Netgear, etc.) are consistently good at this. You have the recommendations here (I'd probably go with Asus, TP-Link or Netgear), but regardless of what you choose, do keep your router firmware updated (if updates are available).

And this is exactly why so many of us recommend taking the time to learn how to use third party firmware and buying a device that can support it. Where manufacturers fail, provide buggy or insecure firmware, and enforce planned obsolescence... you have an entire community of developers who have continued to build, support and update stuff like OpenWRT/LEDE, Tomato, DD-WRT, Gargoyle and ROOter for many of these routers that the manufacturers have abandoned. And bonus points? You get way niftier features available out of the box.

Granted, some of these third party firmwares can be very obtuse and difficult to configure, but there are some (such as ROOter) that are reasonably easy to set up the basics on once you get past the initial flashing, and has good documentation on how to get into the more advanced stuff (assuming you even want to use it).
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 08:53:46 AM by Daley »

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8474
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2018, 09:01:19 AM »
I know of no solution that is always secure.

I'm just not that worried about the security of my home router.

It only has a range of about a hundred feet, so someone attacking it would basically have to be parked in my driveway.  One of my neighbors might be able to maintain a somewhat stable connection if they wanted to hack it, but they are my neighbors and I trust them to not running an international hacking ring from my mac address. 

If someone were to hack my wifi router, what would that give them that isn't easier to get some other way?  It's not like your internet traffic isn't already monitored by multiple third parties, both with and without your consent.  If you're using end-to-end encryption like you're supposed to then as long as your machine is secure and the distant machine is secure then intercepted wifi traffic is probably the lowest remaining threat to your passwords and such.  Your ISP is logging everything you do on the internet.  The government is logging everything you do on the internet through your ISP and/or the local backbone.  Companies like facebook and amazon are logging the sites you visit.

What's the worry about wifi?  People who live in apartment buildings full of criminal hackers looking for someone to spoof?  I'm pretty sure pretending to be your next door neighbor isn't going to throw off interpol.

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2018, 09:16:58 AM »
I'm just not that worried about the security of my home router.

I can't speak for CoffeeR, but in my case? It's not about WiFi security, which, really isn't that secure anyway. It's not about keeping various three letter agencies or corporations out of my internet traffic, either. The biggest reason why I want to keep my router secure and patched is simple, I'd rather not have it or other devices on my network co-opted into a zombie botnet.

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8474
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2018, 09:25:42 AM »
I'd rather not have it or other devices on my network co-opted into a zombie botnet.

That's a legitimate if somewhat altruistic concern.  How would you know if your router had been co-opted?  I can log in to my router and check on status and logs, if everything looks normal should I be worried?  Would you expect to be able to see an increase in traffic, or is the corruption so complete that the owner would never have any idea?

If that's the case, then it seems like all of those home IT warriors will never know if their defenses have been successful or not.  Why go to all of that trouble if you might already have lost the war?

And what's the proposed fix if you suspect that you ARE tied to a botnet?  Re-flash your firmware every six months as a hard reset, just to be sure?  Because I can do that on my $19.99 router just as easily as I can on a $160 router.  Buy a brand new router (for $19.99) once per year just to be sure I have the most current specs?

I'm not being facetious, I genuinely don't understand how to detect if a router or other device is participating in a botnet, or what I would do about it if it were.

katsiki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1831
  • Age: 41
  • Location: La.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2018, 09:28:16 AM »
Another vote for Tp-link.  I think I also have the archer c7.

tyler2016

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 124
    • Tyler's Guides
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2018, 09:45:24 AM »
I'd rather not have it or other devices on my network co-opted into a zombie botnet.

That's a legitimate if somewhat altruistic concern.  How would you know if your router had been co-opted?  I can log in to my router and check on status and logs, if everything looks normal should I be worried?  Would you expect to be able to see an increase in traffic, or is the corruption so complete that the owner would never have any idea?

If that's the case, then it seems like all of those home IT warriors will never know if their defenses have been successful or not.  Why go to all of that trouble if you might already have lost the war?

And what's the proposed fix if you suspect that you ARE tied to a botnet?  Re-flash your firmware every six months as a hard reset, just to be sure?  Because I can do that on my $19.99 router just as easily as I can on a $160 router.  Buy a brand new router (for $19.99) once per year just to be sure I have the most current specs?

I'm not being facetious, I genuinely don't understand how to detect if a router or other device is participating in a botnet, or what I would do about it if it were.

Installing community developed firmware such as DD-WRT or OpenWRT is probably your best bet. It isn't just about altruism. Some providers throttle you down after you use a certain amount of data. If you're part of a bot net, you will likely see performance issues.

If you aren't technical, it will take a little time to read up on how to do it, but it isn't beyond the capabilities of the average person. It just takes someone willing to spend a little time learning. There  are decent instructions on how to do it.

In the unlikely case you brick your device, you are out of maybe 50 bucks.

The community firmware tends to have a lot more features, perform better, and is usually more reliable than the cheapware they come with.

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2018, 10:19:25 AM »
I'm not being facetious, I genuinely don't understand how to detect if a router or other device is participating in a botnet, or what I would do about it if it were.

I could ask the same question to you about how do you normally notice when a computer has a virus? (Genuinely not being facetious here, either.)

Outside of state-level exploits, 99.9% of viruses and malware are just sloppy coding, despite the fact that the goal is to leave the code undetected. The device will run slower, less stable, and utilizes more bandwidth... all things that will impact the quality of your internet connection. If the firmware has an active vulnerability, a hard reset and re-flash without a patch or a way to disable the vulnerability won't do much good as the instant it goes back onto the internet, it's only a matter of time before it gets reinfected. Fortunately, most major router exploits (especially when hard to detect) when discovered usually gets at least some traction in the news cycle.

As for how to avoid/minimize it? Disable all unnecessary services such as remote administration; changing the admin password from the default; using a router/firmware that is still in active development and gets patches; disable UPnP, WPS, PING, Telnet, SSH, HNAP; disable administration over WiFi; don't use cloud management; don't use your ISP's DNS servers; don't enable public file servers; and use stuff like Shields Up to see if you have any open ports visible. Many consumer routers have most all of this stuff enabled by default out of the box, rarely get updates, and have had secret backdoors left open like the infamous port 32764. Stuff like OpenWRT/LEDE does not.

Ultimately, though, it comes down to giving a crap about properly configuring your router and keeping it updated. Most residential routers with their default firmware don't enable you to do that very well, and there's no such thing as an "easy to configure" router that's secure out of the box, as you either get easy to set up and configure and easy to exploit (unless you spend the time reading the documentation and diving through settings) or secure with a couple extra hoops to jump through in reading documentation first. Either way, you have to invest time and get out of your comfort zone. If you want something reasonably secure out of the box with a long firmware support cycle, you have to kind of step up to enchantment and spend a bit more with gear like Ubiquiti which is targeted at SOHO/business customers. Otherwise, the used consumer market with devices supported by OpenWRT/LEDE/DD-WRT/etc. is the way to go.

EDIT: Nothing's 100% in life, but there are things you can do to minimize the attack surface area for both the benefit of yourself and others.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 10:39:56 AM by Daley »

katsiki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1831
  • Age: 41
  • Location: La.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2018, 04:54:34 PM »
TP-link AC1200 is actually what I have.  Have had it for about 5months.

$44 on amazon

CoffeeR

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Location: Southwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2018, 07:30:25 AM »
I know of no solution that is always secure.
I'm just not that worried about the security of my home router.
Sol, I'm glad you are not worried about the security of your router. I am. I grant you I am not paranoid about it. Here are some of my reasons:
  • Security is not a single drawbridge. Security is layers. Your router is one layer and if it is compromised/hacked/whatever the attacker has come closer to disrupting your life. If a router is compromised, an attacker opens up new vectors of attack against your assets (accounts, data, other computers, etc.).
  • As has been pointed out, remote compromise of your router is a bigger concern then the neighbors in your wireless range. I am actually not as much concerned about the federal three letter agencies breaking into my system (they have much easier ways to get to my money) as I am about constant scanning for vulnerabilities and weakness by malicious parties. Even if my assets are not compromised (and they might be), having my Internet connection compromised will cause slow downs and other problems that can be hard to track down.
  • Having said that, you should be concerned about your neighbors and (assuming your location makes it possible) people driving up to your wireless to use it. People who do really nasty stuff (bank fraud, child pornography, etc.) actively seek to use  someone else's Internet to do their deeds. Once the famous government three letter agencies come knocking on your door because your IP address has been associated with something illegal you will be (practically speaking) presumed guilty until proven innocent.
I cannot totally prevent any of the above from happening, but I will do my best (without driving myself crazy) to place barriers in front of malicious actors. A secure router is one such barrier.

Baldrekr

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2018, 01:56:22 PM »
There are a few ways you might find out that your router (or some other device on your network) has been compromised.  Your ISP may tell you, as they see your outgoing traffic.

For example, earlier this year my QNAP NAS got infected by the VPNFilter malware, even though I kept its firmware up to date (within 1 month, anyway).  Comcast started injecting a warning (once every 3 days) into my browsing, telling me that some device in my home was infected by VPNFilter, but of course they don't know which device it is.  I was able to determine which device it was by reading Cisco's Talos blog about VPNFilter, where they said the malware periodically tries to read from a photobucket.com (!) gallery (obviously this gallery has long since been taken down).  Probably Comcast's malware alert goes off if any customer tries to open that particular photobucket gallery.

I turned on deep packet inspection on my router to see which, if any device was going to photobucket, and sure enough, my NAS was periodically checking it.  It turns out the QNAP NAS does not come with its built-in malware remover actually installed, but once I installed and ran it, it found and removed the malware.

At home I keep all my internet of things (cameras, etc.), including the above QNAP NAS, on a separate VLAN, so they can't get at the home network.

I was worried my Netgear R7000 (running Shibby Tomato firmware, which has been abandoned) might have been compromised too, so I switched to a Unifi security gateway, as I had already switched most of my gear to Unifi (access points, switch).  I really like Unifi's seamless roaming between access points, and the single pane of glass UI for monitoring the entire system.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9566
  • Registered member
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2020, 06:08:12 PM »
Bump this for 2020. The wirecutter pick is  $2-300 tplink a20.  I see an a7 for like $60

My old router is a negrear nighthawk 6700 I got at Costco for $150. Itís lasted five years so thatís like $30 per year.   Iím wondering  if Iím better of spending $60 every two years or spring for something better

Negear is mostly fine still, but it randomly resets or drops connection.  Itís getting bad.  I tried restoring factory settings.  Havenít tried alternative firmware yet, but seems unlikely to fix the issues

Always had some coverage problems in my 4br split level.  I have a lot more devices these days as I stocked up on some cheap wifi cams, got some slick deals on smart plugs, and have relatives staying with phones etc.  couple smart speakers and media streamers

So what do you guys suggest?  No ax devices yet but seems like it could help with the many-device problem.

CoffeeR

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 248
  • Location: Southwest
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2020, 08:29:32 PM »
Bump this for 2020. The wirecutter pick is  $2-300 tplink a20.  I see an a7 for like $60
For a budget pick, I'd get the a9 right now. No personal experience with it or the a20. The a20 looks nice, but few people need or make use of 2x 5GHz bands operating simultaneously. I also do not see how the extra CPU performance and memory of the a20 helps for normal operations... unless of course you do VPN, or make use the router beyond basic wireless access and routing.

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2173
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2020, 10:08:52 PM »
Bump this for 2020. The wirecutter pick is  $2-300 tplink a20.  I see an a7 for like $60

My old router is a negrear nighthawk 6700 I got at Costco for $150. Itís lasted five years so thatís like $30 per year.   Iím wondering  if Iím better of spending $60 every two years or spring for something better

Negear is mostly fine still, but it randomly resets or drops connection.  Itís getting bad.  I tried restoring factory settings.  Havenít tried alternative firmware yet, but seems unlikely to fix the issues

Always had some coverage problems in my 4br split level.  I have a lot more devices these days as I stocked up on some cheap wifi cams, got some slick deals on smart plugs, and have relatives staying with phones etc.  couple smart speakers and media streamers

So what do you guys suggest?  No ax devices yet but seems like it could help with the many-device problem.

If you are comfortable defining and configuring TCP/IP networks then look into the UniFi Dream Machine. It combines the functionality of the USG (security gateway), CloudKey (UniFi Controller), managed switch, and 802.11ac Wave 2 4x4 MU-MIMO (5G) access point in a single sleek device for around $300. In the past these separate components would easily exceed $600.

Best of all, this gets you into the UniFi ecosystem, so you can add access points (wired or wireless uplink) as needed to expand coverage.

It's not cheap, but their hardware is so much better than all the consumer grade garbage. It's fast and rock solid, nothing phases it. My network devices often have uptimes in months, only ever restarting when applying firmware updates.

There's a bit of a learning curve, but nothing terrible if you're willing to reference documentation and watch some YouTube tutorials.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9566
  • Registered member
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2020, 10:49:57 PM »
 thanks for the suggestions.

I did see the a9 and it looked like a decent compromise vs the a7 with only single core.  No ax I think so might not be future proof

Dream machine looks interesting.  Iím comfortable configuring but sometimes I just really donít want to do it (I run a virtual Solaris box for zfs archives and damn configuration can be a pain).  If itís one time then great, but Iím going to have to manually open ports every time someone makes a FaceTime call thatís going to get old fast.  Iíll look into it... I love the idea of something really stable.  Donít mind paying more if I can be reasonably sure it will last a long time.... but I balk at paying $400 for a consumer grade Netgear product with 1 year warranty that could just as easily fail in three years

I donít need high speed really.  My internet is not that fast and wireless file transfers are not that large or frequent.  Stability and security are most important but it seems hard to evaluate those on new products.  All you can really do it nix the ones with widespread problems

Might backhaul a second AP some day but the house is small enough that just slightly better performance would obviate the need. If I can keep dodgy devices on a separate network all the better (wyzecam)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 10:56:28 PM by dragoncar »

FINate

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2173
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2020, 11:13:48 PM »
Dream machine looks interesting.  Iím comfortable configuring but sometimes I just really donít want to do it (I run a virtual Solaris box for zfs archives and damn configuration can be a pain).  If itís one time then great, but Iím going to have to manually open ports every time someone makes a FaceTime call thatís going to get old fast.  Iíll look into it... I love the idea of something really stable.  Donít mind paying more if I can be reasonably sure it will last a long time.... but I balk at paying $400 for a consumer grade Netgear product with 1 year warranty that could just as easily fail in three years

Configuration is mostly the initial setup, and then periodic firmware updates and whatever other network changes you want. You shouldn't need to open ports for FaceTime or anything like that.

The controller software makes it all pretty painless. Adding an AP into the mix takes like 5 minutes.

Or let's say you want to add a new wireless network tagged to a new VLAN (maybe for IoT devices?). Go to the controller and create the VLAN, then define the new wireless network/SSID tagged to the new VLAN. The controller then auto provisions all the APs/switches/gateway and then you're set.

RainyDay

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 132
  • Location: Virginia
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2020, 07:55:55 AM »

If you have 100Mbps FIOS, then yeah - you can pretty much use anything.

Do you IT guys agree with this?  We recently upgraded to 100mbps because Verizon was offering a lower price if we also upgraded to Ethernet, but our router/modem is older and they claimed we needed a newer one.  I checked the manual for our router and it says it's capable of handling 100mbps (we bought it 3 years ago), but the Verizon techs keep insisting it's too old and can't handle the faster speeds.  It's an Actiontec MI424WR.

neo von retorch

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3814
  • Location: SE PA
    • Fi@retorch - personal finance tracking
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2020, 08:00:19 AM »
Do you IT guys agree with this?  We recently upgraded to 100mbps because Verizon was offering a lower price if we also upgraded to Ethernet, but our router/modem is older and they claimed we needed a newer one.  I checked the manual for our router and it says it's capable of handling 100mbps (we bought it 3 years ago), but the Verizon techs keep insisting it's too old and can't handle the faster speeds.  It's an Actiontec MI424WR.

Verizon seems to like renting out and selling overpriced routers! Your current (Verizon) router - https://www.actiontec.com/products/wifi-routers-gateways/fiber/bhr-rev-i/ It supports 802.11n with a theoretical maximum speed of 300 Mbps.

In the real world, you probably don't get more than 100 Mbps of wireless transfer speeds, so you're at the cusp of not quite maximizing your FiOS download speeds.

What sort of results do you get on Wifi from https://fast.com or https://www.speedtest.net/ ?

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6724
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2020, 08:11:22 AM »

If you have 100Mbps FIOS, then yeah - you can pretty much use anything.

Do you IT guys agree with this?  We recently upgraded to 100mbps because Verizon was offering a lower price if we also upgraded to Ethernet, but our router/modem is older and they claimed we needed a newer one.  I checked the manual for our router and it says it's capable of handling 100mbps (we bought it 3 years ago), but the Verizon techs keep insisting it's too old and can't handle the faster speeds.  It's an Actiontec MI424WR.

By upgrading to ethernet, do you mean ethernet at the ONT (Verizon box) instead of coax?  Verizon is offering 200/200 for $40/mo: https://fios.verizon.com/fios-plans.html

ctuser1

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1741
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2020, 08:12:01 AM »
Has any of you done tomato or dd-wrt?

I haven't. I have an Apple Airport Extreme that has been serving me well for 9 years now. It handles quite a complicated network (3 NAS boxes, countless wifi devices, wired connection out to all rooms in the house farmed out via a netgear switch etc. etc.) where I prefer to assign specific IP to most important devices.

However, the router frequently overheats and flashes a warning now. It sits in a closet without proper ventilation and no easy way to fix that. So I don't know how long it will survive.

Any recommendation on a powerful router that can do either tomato or dd-wrt? I don't mind sinking a few hundred $$ on something that will handle my network for the next 10 years.

Or maybe something I can use out of the box like this Airport Extreme?

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2020, 08:42:07 AM »
Negear is mostly fine still, but it randomly resets or drops connection.  Itís getting bad.  I tried restoring factory settings.  Havenít tried alternative firmware yet, but seems unlikely to fix the issues

Unless you've had a lightning strike with a cheap surge protector, you store the thing where it gets really hot, or the router's just absolutely bottom-barrel build quality - usually the cheap capacitors in the power supply will die before the router does. Symptoms usually include random resets and flakiness where there shouldn't be any, the very thing you're describing. Maybe try buying a good replacement 12VDC, 2A or higher (aim for 5A - the Nighthawks draw a lot of amperage) compatible replacement power supply in the old laptop power brick form factor off of Amazon with a good return policy for around $15-20, and do a hard reset and see how it performs. If it's good, flash it over to a current Kong build of DD-WRT and enjoy your "new $20 router".

The wirecutter

Yeah, about the Wirecutter...

The post-NYT's buyout Wirecutter's more advertisement and referral portal than quality review site. I haven't trusted their recommendations for nearly as long as they've been around. Your own quoted recommendation for router is plenty of evidence why. Any website that recommends users drop $300 on consumer router equipment and doesn't drive the entire review on firmware quality over hardware does not have users best interests at heart, only their wallets. The Wirecutter isn't Consumer Reports... heck, even Consumer Reports isn't really Consumer Reports anymore for this sort of stuff. They're all referral portals for the most expensive items they can recommend that's just good enough to last just long enough to not piss you off and blame them for recommending you buy that crap in the first place so you come back and do it again.

Personally, I'd never buy a TP-Link device if it meant I HAD to run TP-Link's firmware.

Give this a read to understand why you should never buy consumer grade routers unless you plan on replacing the firmware with OpenWRT/LEDE, DD-WRT, Tomato, etc., and even then? You buy the refurbished older prosumer models (like you already have) so you can guarantee the hardware will last or won't be upset if it doesn't. I'm still running an eight year old WD My NET N600 that I got used a few years back for $30 loaded up with OpenWRT, and it's still rock solid.

FINate's recommendation of Ubiquiti UniFi equipment is solid, and the only new network equipment in that price range I'd recommend. If you're mad enough to spend that kind of money, UBNT is the poor-man's Cisco. It's a solid choice, and you won't get stranded, and even if you do get stranded, you can still abandon the firmware ship for DD-WRT, or OpenWRT, or, or, or. However, most people still don't need $300 worth of network equipment if they're willing to get their hands a little dirty.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 08:45:21 AM by Daley »

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2020, 09:08:48 AM »
Has any of you done tomato or dd-wrt?

For nearly a decade and a half at this point since the old Linksys WRT-54G days, and I can't recommend it enough. Even the best consumer grade firmware is frequently atrocious. Hardware's usually fine - excuse the cheap power supply bricks, it's the firmware that makes and breaks stuff.

Any recommendation on a powerful router that can do either tomato or dd-wrt?

Any of the used prosumer routers you can pick up that has at least 16MB of flash memory and 128MB of RAM (or higher, aim for around 32MB flash and 256MB RAM if possible) and at least one USB port that's well supported by the third party firmware with reasonably frequent updates that you want to use should be fine. The Kong DD-WRT builds on Netgear equipment are usually a good target platform for people who don't want to learn how to deal with OpenWRT.

Basically what's good for DragonCar is good for you. Use a compatible Nighthawk with Kong if you can get it cheap, otherwise eat the cost and go UBNT. Good and secure network equipment is never out of the box safe, and takes at least a little work to configure properly, so keep that in mind.

...and stop storing your router in a hot and unventilated area. Heat kills electronics, and there's always creative ways to work around issues. Fans, longer cables, that sort of thing.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 09:12:30 AM by Daley »

Paul der Krake

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5516
  • Age: 13
  • Location: UTC-10:00
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2020, 09:26:53 PM »
Yeah the WireCutter is a silly website now. In general, all their "budget" recommendations are plenty good.

For what it's worth I still have the $40 Asus router that @Daley  recommended... back in 2013. It's survived 7 years of intense usage for work and pleasure, moved to 3 states across 6 timezones, working in hot and humid climates.

When it dies I'll just get something similar in the same price range.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9566
  • Registered member
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2020, 10:53:34 PM »
I was so happy when I first found wirecutter but I guess itís true theyíve gone downhill

Are there any trustworthy options for electronics reviews where they actually test and measure stuff?

Most hits are usually stuff like pcmag.  Toms guide used to be good havenít read it in a long time since I donít really buy electronics frequently anymore and thus have no reason to stay up to date on all the little changes. 

The proliferation of fake reviews and paid reviews, plus seemingly more competing products and tiers of product, makes it really hard to figure out in a reasonable amount of time. 

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2020, 08:53:23 AM »
Are there any trustworthy options for electronics reviews where they actually test and measure stuff?
[snip]
The proliferation of fake reviews and paid reviews, plus seemingly more competing products and tiers of product, makes it really hard to figure out in a reasonable amount of time.

@dragoncar - Not really, and the rise and success of The Wirecutter is actually responsible for the glut of spamvertisement review sites today. This is why I recommend learning how to use and install third party firmwares on things like routers, smartphones, etc. The variation in hardware quality is pretty easy to discern on its own solely by price and hand feel these days. So long as you're already familiar with the firmware and the processes of abandoning the factory software, you can just blaze your own path. Like in this instance. The specs for a good router are so friggin' low, the only metrics that actually matter are flash and RAM size, an unlocked bootloader that allow you to flash your own firmware, and active third party firmware support. You shop for your replacement router based on what's available and supported and has the features you want, new or used, by what the best supported routers are from projects like DD-WRT and OpenWRT. In fact, OpenWRT frequently has photos of systemboards for these routers in their hardware wiki so you can see build quality yourself, along with instructions to see how complicated initial flash might be, which lets you skew towards models with polymer capacitors instead of cheap electrolyte ones (says the knucklehead who bought a model with cheap electrolyte caps) and easy initial firmware flashes.

That list (like properly boot unlocked and third party firmware supported smartphones) is a lot shorter than you think, and going with and learning the basic settings with something like DD-WRT means that no matter what brand of router you get, you're always going to have the same interface and settings. Being able to always know how to configure and set up your router, no matter who makes it, takes a lot of anxiety away from needing to replace a router... and letting your preferred third party firmware dictate your hardware buying choices makes selecting a replacement a lot easier.

Like I said, though... typically the power supply will go long before the unit itself. I may have gone through a power brick during the time, but I ran one of the original $70 WRT54Gs loaded with DD-WRT most of its life for well over a decade, and the only reason why I retired it was to get something with more flash memory and a USB port so I could network my old Brother laser printer and have the ability to enable a VPN back to the home network if needed while out and about. The replacement I have now I think was either a refurb or new old stock open box (now that I'm actually trying to remember right - memory is not what it used to be), and it's chugging away without a care. I just keep it plugged into a UPS, keep it cool, and have a replacement power supply on standby if needed.

If a new power supply fixes the stability of your R6700, which I suspect it will, you're laughing. You've literally already got the most important part.



For what it's worth I still have the $40 Asus router that @Daley  recommended... back in 2013. It's survived 7 years of intense usage for work and pleasure, moved to 3 states across 6 timezones, working in hot and humid climates.

Nice!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 09:11:53 AM by Daley »

Daley

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4319
  • Location: Cow country. Moo.
  • Got that mustache feeling.
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2020, 02:10:33 PM »
Follow-up after doing a bit of research for @dragoncar and @ctuser1

I've not shopped for new routers for a while. (In DragonCar's instance, if the current Nighthawk can't be resurrected with a new power supply?) It looks like TP-Link's Archer A7 and C7 (AC1750 v5 - current board revision for both) are basically the same hardware, and well supported by both DD-WRT and OpenWRT, though they have their own individual builds anyway. It also looks like you can do a direct flash from factory, so it's no major hoop jumping. However, it's only a 16MB flash with 128MB RAM. TP-Link's hardware is pretty solid, but their firmware is awful. If anyone needs to buy new, that'd be my recommendation right now. However, don't spend more than $70 or so on these things, and honestly a refurb/used price around $30-40 is far more in line with what most of this hardware's actually worth.

The best consumer experience is to just go into it with the intent of ditching the factory firmware out of the gate. If you want long term support, stability and updates on a consumer budget, just consider the transition to third party firmware and a useless warranty that you voluntarily void as part of the process. This way, if you ever need to replace it again, you just look for another router that runs the same firmware you're already used to and the configuration learning curve and what to shop for are kept simple. DD-WRT has had a very consistent interface the past decade plus, and is easier to get the basics set up securely.

If anyone thinks they actually need to spend $150 or more, spend the extra to run actual business level gear like Ubiquiti or get into the headaches of rolling your own PFSense box. You'll get way better hardware and capability for the money than whatever overpriced network geegaw made by Asus/Netgear/Linksys/Belkin/TP-Link/D-Link/etc. that's loaded with flaky proprietary firmware and possibly no third party upgrade path is being pimped out on the for-profit review sites that month.

ketchup

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4308
  • Age: 30
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2020, 02:48:50 PM »
Follow-up after doing a bit of research for @dragoncar and @ctuser1

I've not shopped for new routers for a while. (In DragonCar's instance, if the current Nighthawk can't be resurrected with a new power supply?) It looks like TP-Link's Archer A7 and C7 (AC1750 v5 - current board revision for both) are basically the same hardware, and well supported by both DD-WRT and OpenWRT, though they have their own individual builds anyway. It also looks like you can do a direct flash from factory, so it's no major hoop jumping. However, it's only a 16MB flash with 128MB RAM. TP-Link's hardware is pretty solid, but their firmware is awful. If anyone needs to buy new, that'd be my recommendation right now. However, don't spend more than $70 or so on these things, and honestly a refurb/used price around $30-40 is far more in line with what most of this hardware's actually worth.

The best consumer experience is to just go into it with the intent of ditching the factory firmware out of the gate. If you want long term support, stability and updates on a consumer budget, just consider the transition to third party firmware and a useless warranty that you voluntarily void as part of the process. This way, if you ever need to replace it again, you just look for another router that runs the same firmware you're already used to and the configuration learning curve and what to shop for are kept simple. DD-WRT has had a very consistent interface the past decade plus, and is easier to get the basics set up securely.

If anyone thinks they actually need to spend $150 or more, spend the extra to run actual business level gear like Ubiquiti or get into the headaches of rolling your own PFSense box. You'll get way better hardware and capability for the money than whatever overpriced network geegaw made by Asus/Netgear/Linksys/Belkin/TP-Link/D-Link/etc. that's loaded with flaky proprietary firmware and possibly no third party upgrade path is being pimped out on the for-profit review sites that month.
I can second all of this.  I used a TP-Link Archer A7 with DD-WRT before going Ubiquiti with no issues.

Paul der Krake

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5516
  • Age: 13
  • Location: UTC-10:00
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2020, 03:07:36 PM »
Networking software gets no love because it's so hidden away, but there's an insane amount of magic software to make The Cloudô happen. In modern datacenters, even dumb network switches get their own custom firmware.

ctuser1

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1741
Re: recommended router?
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2020, 03:10:50 PM »
Follow-up after doing a bit of research for @dragoncar and @ctuser1

I've not shopped for new routers for a while. (In DragonCar's instance, if the current Nighthawk can't be resurrected with a new power supply?) It looks like TP-Link's Archer A7 and C7 (AC1750 v5 - current board revision for both) are basically the same hardware, and well supported by both DD-WRT and OpenWRT, though they have their own individual builds anyway. It also looks like you can do a direct flash from factory, so it's no major hoop jumping. However, it's only a 16MB flash with 128MB RAM. TP-Link's hardware is pretty solid, but their firmware is awful. If anyone needs to buy new, that'd be my recommendation right now. However, don't spend more than $70 or so on these things, and honestly a refurb/used price around $30-40 is far more in line with what most of this hardware's actually worth.

The best consumer experience is to just go into it with the intent of ditching the factory firmware out of the gate. If you want long term support, stability and updates on a consumer budget, just consider the transition to third party firmware and a useless warranty that you voluntarily void as part of the process. This way, if you ever need to replace it again, you just look for another router that runs the same firmware you're already used to and the configuration learning curve and what to shop for are kept simple. DD-WRT has had a very consistent interface the past decade plus, and is easier to get the basics set up securely.

If anyone thinks they actually need to spend $150 or more, spend the extra to run actual business level gear like Ubiquiti or get into the headaches of rolling your own PFSense box. You'll get way better hardware and capability for the money than whatever overpriced network geegaw made by Asus/Netgear/Linksys/Belkin/TP-Link/D-Link/etc. that's loaded with flaky proprietary firmware and possibly no third party upgrade path is being pimped out on the for-profit review sites that month.

Thank you.

One more question out of curiosity (I dont expect to do this as it will likely be very complex and expensive)...

Is it at all feasible to make my router a true network switch connecting to multiple nrtwork providers?

In my case, I have the option of optimum and frontier. Do I need to get separate static ip from both of them?

Ideally, Iíd like tcp/ip level packet switching across both networks (not just backup/failover etc). Of course backup/failover is automatic when you are load balancing at the tcp/ip packet level.

Do dd-wrt/tomato have features like this?