How do parent plus loans work?
I thought they were fully taken out by the parents, who are the ones agreeing to repay it.
If so, it is time to sit down and show them the huge debt from student loans they allowed him to incur. And then start talking about the new grand baby.
I don't actually know how they work; I'll have to ask him. We're not currently paying his parents anything; he wants to start. They are quite patient about it all and I think they would be happy with a nominal amount at first - maybe $50/month.
1) My DH is not a reader. He has not read one single thing about MMM since I started talking about it a year ago. However, I do the spreadsheeting for the house, and when I showed him that with a few small changes, we could save $5K per year, he elected to make about 50 % of those changes.
Ha. I've tried to get him to read. He read a few articles, go to the one about how the MM's achieved FIRE so quickly, and concluded that none of it applies to us because our income is so much lower than theirs was and our debt load is so much higher. I pointed out that the principles still apply and still work, regardless of income, and he acknowledged that, but isn't really interested in reading more.
2) What are your husband's levers? What is going to make him realise that changes are needed? I am certainly not advocating manipulation, but sometimes a little genuine emotion can go a long way. Does he know how terrified you are of him dying young because he's not treating his diabetes seriously? Does he understand how that will impact your baby? Many of the changes you guys need to make are not just financial, but health related. I just wonder if that could be the path to making him care, and see that the small changes are indeed cumulative and add up to a big deal over the medium term.
See, he doesn't get the impact of small changes, whether it's money or health. We've had some scares - he's had hypoglycemic seizures in the middle of the night, twice resulting in me having to call 911. If I hadn't been there, who knows what could have happened. He almost didn't get his current job because he failed the physical the first time around.
But right now things are okay. His vision sucks but it's not so bad that he can't drive or whatever, and lots of people have crap vision, right? His feet are in surprisingly great shape. But it will catch up to him, I know that. It's more real to me because I work in a hospital and have a LOT of patients with complications from poorly managed diabetes, both type 1 and 2. Sometimes I wish he could come with me for a shift and see some amputations, some people with end-stage renal failure who are only in their 40's and 50's. I'm afraid that he won't get it till it's too late.
So he'll eat whatever he wants in the moment, and thinks, oh, I'll just cover it with insulin. Never mind that it's that kind of up-and-down that will lead to the worst complications.
Same with money. He wants something now, he'll do it now, and figures the money will just come from somewhere else. Never mind that the "somewhere else" might be more important, and this kind of constant whack-a-mole approach (borrowing a phrase from YNAB) doesn't leave anything for debt payoff or savings.
Honestly, I think he's depressed. He sees our situation as hopeless (though he does acknowledge, and think it's awesome, that we've paid off approximately $2k of debt since July, and the bank account is always positive now). I think he does what feels good in the moment, because it does feel good for that few minutes. He doesn't have the motivation to think longer-term, or make any sacrifices.
Of course, diabetes frequently leads to depression. Funky blood sugar levels and constant up-and-down screws up brain chemistry like crazy. I've asked him to think about talking to someone, but he won't because 1) he doesn't want to spend the money (ironic, I know), 2) he doesn't want to be diagnosed with anything, and 3) he doesn't want to take any more meds (besides the insulin, his doc has him on cholesterol meds, even though his cholesterol is fine, as a preventative measure bc of the diabetes and family history).
So yeah, baby steps.
I guess your biggest struggle is getting your husband to care. Which will take lots of time. I know you've done a lot of talking to him and are making changes where you can (genius idea to make the breakfast sandwiches!). You've jumped with two feet into MMM, while he's not even cared to look. So you might need to think that he's at more of a beginner Get Rich Slowly level (or similar blog) where you guys can meet all of your obligations, and maybe save some, so why not just spend on whatever I want?
What would motivate him to care about finances? What would get him interested? And what level of spending is he happy with? I know people here argue that you can be happier at lower spending levels, but I think that's also a learned perspective.
Yes to your first point. He pretty much feels like if the bills are paid, any money sitting in the account is available to spend. Like I've said, we do use YNAB, and he understands the concept of spending from categories instead of balances, but almost never actually checks category balances before spending. I've started taking any money that isn't going somewhere immediately, and moving it to the savings account (bonus: we get a teeny bit more interest this way, .75% instead of .25%), so that he can't use the debit card. He could just move it back, but he never does, and I take advantage of this. ;) This has helped. Right now we only have about $150 in the checking account and $260 in savings. He'll only notice the $150, and the other $260 is safe.
I think that once we start to make more headway on our debt, that will motivate him to do more. He has to see that it's possible, and that we won't be sacrificing quality of life to make it happen. Like I said, we've paid off a small amount of debt, and gotten out of the overdraft cycle. He gets a little excited about that. So I think the more we're able to do, the more he'll be willing to participate.
What kinds of energy drinks is your husband drinking? Red Bull? 5-hour Energy? Or are we talking Gatorade/Powerade type things? Costco sells them all in bulk at probably 1/3 the cost of gas stations.
Don't they wreak havoc with your husband's blood sugar level?
He prefers Rockstar, but would probably be happy with anything I buy. He does get the sugar-free kind, so it doesn't affect his sugar directly, though I'm not sure how all the caffeine and other stuff plays into it. I can't imagine it's good.
The Costco website is showing me 24 cans of Monster for $35, which comes out to $1.45 per can. Lately he's been getting them 2/$3 at the gas station, so it's not a huge savings... but he'll also drink both on the same night, and if he was bringing them from home, he'd only bring one. AND, that would come from the grocery budget, not his spending $, and I think it would motivate him to have spending money to use for other things he's been talking about and/or just have some left over at the end of the month.
Yay!
FYI, 1-2 size Costco diapers are pretty darned cheap (ca. 10 cents each on sale), but once your babe grows out of those, Target Up and Up is way cheaper once you combine sales, Red card, possibly Cartwheel, etc. I have a six month old in Size 3 and pay around 12 cents for Target brand, whereas Costco is 16 each on sale.
Just information for your near future :).
We're doing cloth, actually, and are pretty set for at least the first 6 months, but thanks!
Thank you all so much for your feedback. You've given me a lot to think about, and I'm getting a clearer picture of the next steps.
Perhaps I should start a journal...