Author Topic: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family  (Read 19624 times)

Prairie Stash

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1809
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2014, 08:42:33 AM »
Your case is interesting. How old is your niece? You're 2 children get government money, does she? Or does someone else collect it? If this is a long term situation you should be at least receiving the government amounts. It's not intended for adults, that money is to support her.

Also your brother. How does he pay for school? Is there only enough for tuition, no food? Summer is coming, depending on his course of study most people get summer jobs. It's not unreasonable for an adult to pay rent or food, even while in school.

To satisfy my curiosity; how old is your mother? My sister in law was a grandma at 40. I have trouble understanding how anyone in Canada has no income. Even your kids get $350/month.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 09:03:31 AM by Prairie Practicality »

CentimentalFreedom

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: New Brunswick
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2014, 02:47:42 PM »
Your case is interesting. How old is your niece? You're 2 children get government money, does she? Or does someone else collect it? If this is a long term situation you should be at least receiving the government amounts. It's not intended for adults, that money is to support her.

Also your brother. How does he pay for school? Is there only enough for tuition, no food? Summer is coming, depending on his course of study most people get summer jobs. It's not unreasonable for an adult to pay rent or food, even while in school.

To satisfy my curiosity; how old is your mother? My sister in law was a grandma at 40. I have trouble understanding how anyone in Canada has no income. Even your kids get $350/month.

Niece is 10, her money is being allocated to her RESP.

He saved up to go to school and is EXTREMELY helpful at home. He has been applying for summer jobs, but we need him to be at home to help with my mother due to her just having a stroke.

She's 66. We are trying to apply for medical E.I., she used to work but had a stroke and is still recovering.

CommonCents

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2386
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2014, 03:08:03 PM »
Why not collect the money from the niece?  I'm confused.  You are supporting everyone, but not willing to take money you're entitled to.  Will she repay you when she is working so you can fund your own retirement?  Will your brother repay you that money when he is working so you can fund your own retirement?

Prairie Stash

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1809
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2014, 03:23:11 PM »
That's nice to hear about the niece, very honest. In my opinion that's a commendable course of actions. Do you put aside your kids cheques too?

The brother makes sense too. I would personally charge a little, but that's just me. He likely qualifies for federal loans, interest free till graduation. It's something to consider later if his savings dry up.

I've never tried medical EI, the site says delays over 4 weeks might grant them reasons to deny applicants. I assume it was very recent, my sympathies. Medical problems are often frightening, I hope you're handling it okay.

You can still start OAS and GIS payments, she's over 65. I assume she's Canadian.

Overall your situation looks better to me now than it did before. You have additional potential income sources, if you need them. Just recognizing extra income sources would make me feel a lot more confident. You seem like you're in decent financial shape.

The downside is you might need to learn to assert yourself to your mother. Asking her to chip in might be tough on you. On the other hand, what is she spending her income on since you're covering everything? (Rhetorical question, no need to answer me) Unless the plan is to delay the start to increase the monthly payment amounts, that's a valid strategy for some.

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11377
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2014, 04:01:29 PM »
Sorry about your Mom's stroke.  She is only 3 years older than I am, so hearing that is sort of scary! 

Others have brought up income streams - if you are supporting your niece (i.e. this is long term) her child allowance should be covering your expenses (and what about support money from her parents, if possible?).  Anything left over can go into her RESP.  But she should not be a burden on you financially - you are giving her a home, all the TLC, etc. 
Your Mom is old enough for both OAS and GIS but they have to be applied for (not automatic) and are not retroactive, so go for it! You don't get more by delaying it, like you do for CPP, so if she doesn't have it now there is no point putting it off.  Also what about CPP?  Again if she has income she should be paying her costs, that is why "we retirees" have income, to cover our expenses.   If I moved in with my daughter (which we would both hate) I would expect to pay my expenses.

And why is your tenant driving your car? Gas, wear and tear, etc. - $0.55/km is what I got at work when I drove for work.

You listed RESPs under assets, but they are not your assets, they are the kids'.  Yours as well as the niece, I trust? Nice to have, but getting out of debt and ready for retirement is higher priority, I think.  I did the same, put my daughter's family allowance into a mutual fund which has helped with university, but I had my RRSP's maxed out first.

"Gimmiepigs" - not everyone is a gimmiepig, but isn't it a wonderful word? So expressive  ;-)  And it makes us think about expectations and boundaries.

mom2_3Hs

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2014, 05:59:34 PM »
Why isn't your brother paying rent or helping out?  Is the niece his daughter? 

CentimentalFreedom

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: New Brunswick
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2014, 06:20:46 AM »
Why isn't your brother paying rent or helping out?  Is the niece his daughter?

I mentioned earlier that he was helping out maybe not financially but everywhere else. No she's not his daughter.

CentimentalFreedom

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: New Brunswick
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2014, 06:28:03 AM »
Sorry about your Mom's stroke.  She is only 3 years older than I am, so hearing that is sort of scary! 

Others have brought up income streams - if you are supporting your niece (i.e. this is long term) her child allowance should be covering your expenses (and what about support money from her parents, if possible?).  Anything left over can go into her RESP.  But she should not be a burden on you financially - you are giving her a home, all the TLC, etc. 
Your Mom is old enough for both OAS and GIS but they have to be applied for (not automatic) and are not retroactive, so go for it! You don't get more by delaying it, like you do for CPP, so if she doesn't have it now there is no point putting it off.  Also what about CPP?  Again if she has income she should be paying her costs, that is why "we retirees" have income, to cover our expenses.   If I moved in with my daughter (which we would both hate) I would expect to pay my expenses.

And why is your tenant driving your car? Gas, wear and tear, etc. - $0.55/km is what I got at work when I drove for work.

You listed RESPs under assets, but they are not your assets, they are the kids'.  Yours as well as the niece, I trust? Nice to have, but getting out of debt and ready for retirement is higher priority, I think.  I did the same, put my daughter's family allowance into a mutual fund which has helped with university, but I had my RRSP's maxed out first.

"Gimmiepigs" - not everyone is a gimmiepig, but isn't it a wonderful word? So expressive  ;-)  And it makes us think about expectations and boundaries.

Mom's already got all that coming in. She is paying for life insurance on herself, my bro (against his will) and my niece (no idea why), some to niece's RESP and anything else she may want to buy.

I don't feel that taking care of my niece is a burden. I never felt that way. Her mother helps where she can and I have not asked for her help. I feel that her allowance should remain hers. It's not mine.

Apparently he feels that we're taking advantage of him and he can find rent better else where (although, I told him there's nothing keeping him here) so he's taking advantage of us. Unfortunately, despite my attempts, my husband doesn't feel it's right to just leave him in the cold. Considering his ungrateful nature, I don't have sympathy.

You're right, I'll remove RESPs. No it doesn't include niece's.

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11377
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2014, 06:56:34 AM »
I understand your reply (second half below) but your original post was really worried about money - and why you needed to change (first half below).  So I am going to give you a very gentle "face punch".

You have choices, right now you are choosing to let your mother spend her money on whatever she wants while you carry most of her costs - same for your niece, in a smaller way, and your renter (now there is a gimmiepig if I ever saw one).  You are not choosing for your stated priorities.

Your mother has her OAS/GIS/CPP. She is not destitute.  She should be paying her way.  If I were in the same position I would be.  We spend money on our children to get them to the point where they are self-reliant adults.  As a mother, I hope my daughter will then do that for her children.  So in a sense that is "paying it forward".  If your mother were destitute that would be a different story. Fortunately in Canada we do not get hit with the huge medical bills that might be incurred in the US in your situation.

Your niece is costing you - food, clothes, school extra expenses, added utilities, whatever.  I am not suggesting you make a profit from her child allowance, I am suggesting you should financially be at zero for her.

Your car is dying, and your renter is driving it - not good.  How does he do this? Hot-wire it? If he has keys for it, how come?  Get them back.  Every province has rental rules, do you know what yours are?  Find out if your rent is reasonable - if it is low for your area and the apartment, raise it to what is reasonable.   If he is unhappy, too bad, he can leave.  If the increase was reasonable for your area, you should be able to get another renter.  If the rent is already appropriate, then your renter should stop feeling sorry for himself and your husband should stop feeling sorry for him.  And no more car use.

Is your husband on the same page as you are?  Or does he see you being a doormat financially with your family members, so he is a doormat for the renter?  Remember, if you two work together and support each other, you will both be stronger. An old Roman symbol was the fasces (Mussolini borrowed the concept, hence the word fascist).  The fasces was a bundle of sticks tied together - each one could be easily broken by itself, but together they were unbreakable.  You and your husband need to be that bundle of sticks, strong!

I have a Canadian family of 7 and 2 dogs living in a 3 bedroom house with just our beds (no fancy bed sets, just box and spring. There is a $70 bunk bed I bought off Kijiji that the kids share. ), a dresser, a love seat, and a dining table.. Our car is breaking down (so far we've spent $1200 a year on it JUST FOR REPAIRS) so we want a new car, don't know what kind to get for the size of our family. We have a meretricious tenant living downstairs that we want to get rid of (like now, because I want to beat him with a mace then drive over him a couple billion times with my already inefficient minivan. That horrible, horrible grump is really stressing me out). Finally, I want to quit my second job so that I can spend time with my family... maybe retire? On average, I spend about an average of 10 hours a week with my kids... how depressing is that? Bad mother. I know, but what else can I do. There's no money. I am sick of debt. I am sick of restrictions.

Wait! There's more!! I can't say no to Granny. It's been ingrained in me that it's a no-no. Add the guilt trips and constant rants you'll get a tyrant that spends A LOT of money that I don't have. Mostly on food, but the problem is she "buys a fancy pen before she learn's how to write" I hope that makes sense. Is that even how you say it? The Mr. is going to laugh at my sad attempts again. OK... so... the finances...


Mom's already got all that coming in. She is paying for life insurance on herself, my bro (against his will) and my niece (no idea why), some to niece's RESP and anything else she may want to buy.

I don't feel that taking care of my niece is a burden. I never felt that way. Her mother helps where she can and I have not asked for her help. I feel that her allowance should remain hers. It's not mine.

Apparently he feels that we're taking advantage of him and he can find rent better else where (although, I told him there's nothing keeping him here) so he's taking advantage of us. Unfortunately, despite my attempts, my husband doesn't feel it's right to just leave him in the cold. Considering his
ungrateful nature, I don't have sympathy.

Elaine

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 467
  • Age: 32
  • Location: NYC
    • Small Things Good
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2014, 07:15:48 AM »
I just wanted to say that even though you are not MMM yet, your total willingness to chop your budget and your lack of insane debt make you leaps and bounds above many of the case studies that we see here. You sound highly motivated, and totally aware of your past mistakes, don't underestimate how valuable this is. I see posts here and on other forums from people 150k in school debt, plus 15k credit card debt, plus a 350k mortgage, and totally delusional about spending or cutting budgets. I am one of MANY people who came to this site with nothing to my name and am now happily watching my money grow. Start a journal, keep your enthusiasm and logic, can't wait to see where you are a year from now!

CentimentalFreedom

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: New Brunswick
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2014, 07:23:29 AM »
Thanks Retiredat63

A little face punch is justified.

You're absolutely correct. I CHOSE to let this happen. My beliefs and my perspective of life, family, and friends have a strong bearing on these choices.

Quote
Knowledge of what is does not open the door directly to what should be. ~ Albert Einstein

None said it as well as Einstein. I hope you understand.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28015
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2014, 07:48:04 AM »
You choose what bullshit you buy into.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

CentimentalFreedom

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: New Brunswick
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2014, 08:45:44 AM »
You choose what bullshit you buy into.

All a matter of perspective. Culture does influence how we behave and what we believe. Different behaviours are deemed to be either acceptable or unacceptable in different societies and cultures. My behaviours and decisions are a product of my cultural background and my individual beliefs. Sometimes, it's not as simple as choosing what "bullshit" to buy into.

CommonCents

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2386
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2014, 08:54:03 AM »
You choose what bullshit you buy into.

All a matter of perspective. Culture does influence how we behave and what we believe. Different behaviours are deemed to be either acceptable or unacceptable in different societies and cultures. My behaviours and decisions are a product of my cultural background and my individual beliefs. Sometimes, it's not as simple as choosing what "bullshit" to buy into.

Sure, but there's not much we can do to help, if you choose to reject suggestions due to the cultural influences you have bought into.  If you choose to support your mother, niece, and brother, without accepting the money to support them that they receive, it will take you significantly longer to make financial headway, particularly as they continue to spend your money by using electicity needlessly or requiring fancy phone plans.  It's doable, but it's akin to plugging the hole and then bailing the boat with a tea cup rather than a bucket.  You should still be able to get there, but it'll take you a lot longer, and you'll be a lot tireder at the end.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28015
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2014, 08:57:29 AM »
You choose what bullshit you buy into.

All a matter of perspective. Culture does influence how we behave and what we believe. Different behaviours are deemed to be either acceptable or unacceptable in different societies and cultures. My behaviours and decisions are a product of my cultural background and my individual beliefs. Sometimes, it's not as simple as choosing what "bullshit" to buy into.

Excellent example of what I was saying!

That is bullshit you have chosen to buy into.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

CentimentalFreedom

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: New Brunswick
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2014, 09:30:03 AM »

Excellent example of what I was saying!

That is bullshit you have chosen to buy into.

LOL. I agree. It's definitely something that I have to work on, on a psychological level. There's so many factors in life, society, culture, etc. that influence how we feel, our behaviours and our decisions. It's not going to be easy. I am going to force myself to be more "fact" based and quit buying into the bullshit.

CentimentalFreedom

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: New Brunswick
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2014, 09:33:06 AM »
You choose what bullshit you buy into.

All a matter of perspective. Culture does influence how we behave and what we believe. Different behaviours are deemed to be either acceptable or unacceptable in different societies and cultures. My behaviours and decisions are a product of my cultural background and my individual beliefs. Sometimes, it's not as simple as choosing what "bullshit" to buy into.

Sure, but there's not much we can do to help, if you choose to reject suggestions due to the cultural influences you have bought into.  If you choose to support your mother, niece, and brother, without accepting the money to support them that they receive, it will take you significantly longer to make financial headway, particularly as they continue to spend your money by using electicity needlessly or requiring fancy phone plans.  It's doable, but it's akin to plugging the hole and then bailing the boat with a tea cup rather than a bucket.  You should still be able to get there, but it'll take you a lot longer, and you'll be a lot tireder at the end.

You're absolutely right. Culture is something I struggle with on a regular basis. It's not just a matter of mentality it's been ingrained into my very being. I am not disagreeing, I just hope that there is a sense of understanding.

How fast or slow I get there is all up to me, but everyone's support and advice does not go unnoticed. I definitely take everything and implement as much as I can as quick as I can.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28015
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2014, 09:41:20 AM »

Excellent example of what I was saying!

That is bullshit you have chosen to buy into.

LOL. I agree. It's definitely something that I have to work on, on a psychological level. There's so many factors in life, society, culture, etc. that influence how we feel, our behaviours and our decisions. It's not going to be easy. I am going to force myself to be more "fact" based and quit buying into the bullshit.

I'm glad you laughed and took that how I meant it.  You'll be just fine.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11377
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2014, 10:55:15 AM »
I'm going to have a little rant here. 

I don't know which cultural background is affecting Centimental Freedom's choices.  But our culture (I am talking general Canadian/North American here) has basically expected women to sacrifice (financial and otherwise) for family where men would never be expected to.  CF is not the only one who has posted on MM about her financial issues, most of which seem self-inflicted to an outsider, but are basically due to these societal expectations/pressures.  What I am seeing (with hope) is that the younger female posters seem to be less affected by this pressure - but there is always self-selection bias, their age groups may also be getting it in the general population or maybe their issues have not yet gotten to the point where they can't cope.

Full disclosure - I was brought up the same way, and did this for so many years I cringe at the memories - worked full time, had a longer commute than my husband, did most of the house-hold stuff, child-care stuff, take kid to after-school activities, volunteer for her activities, etc., juggle the budget so DH and kid could enjoy their expensive hobbies, and then have DH wondering why I couldn't pay all the CCs off in full each month, and then he would go out and spend some more.  I tried to be super-woman, super-wife, super-mom, super-money manager - just couldn't do it.  So if I sometimes seem to come on a bit harsh, it is so that women who seem to have put themselves in the same bind I put myself in can start fixing things sooner than I did, and maybe manage to save their marriages (I didn't, couldn't, now separated for over 4 years and life is so much better).

Ouch that hurt to say.

OK, rant over.  Good luck, CF.


RetiredAt63

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11377
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2014, 11:01:18 AM »
CF - Just saw this - congratulations!

Switched my $300 phone plan to skype plans. (Saved about $250).

CentimentalFreedom

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 137
  • Location: New Brunswick
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2014, 11:09:13 AM »
Thanks, Retiredat63!

Your rant. You get it. We may not be from the same culture and my husband is a lot more supportive, but you get it. Thank you.

CommonCents

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2386
Re: Reader Case Study - Gargantuan Family
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2014, 11:14:32 AM »
I tried to be super-woman, super-wife, super-mom, super-money manager - just couldn't do it.  So if I sometimes seem to come on a bit harsh, it is so that women who seem to have put themselves in the same bind I put myself in can start fixing things sooner than I did, and maybe manage to save their marriages (I didn't, couldn't, now separated for over 4 years and life is so much better).

Retired, we are unfortunately not yet at 50/50 on workload, despite how much some of my generation believes it's the right way to approach things.   The "chore gap" (considering work, housework, childcare, etc.) still persists even if it may be better: http://business.time.com/2012/12/21/closing-the-chore-gap/