Author Topic: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?  (Read 3524 times)

DaveR

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Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« on: September 28, 2015, 03:47:42 PM »
I like to think I'm pretty deliberate in my life. Seeking out value just makes sense to me--whether economic value or happiness value. Wealth is great, and part of a rich and rewarding life, but by no means the singular motivator. Hopefully, lots of folks can relate.

The "Mustachian" moniker is new(ish) to me, but the mentality is not. In the past, I haven't really been too concerned about all the waste and self-justified rabid consumerism I see every day. But as I've started to be more vocal, I often find it falls on deaf ears. [not around here, of course]

What's your experience? Do you speak out, or is it one of those things that is left as "when you're ready, I can help?" How do you go about face punching without the risk of assault charges?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 04:26:17 PM by DaveR »

Scandium

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2015, 06:38:21 AM »
Ehm, I don't? What other people do is none of my  business, just as my life is none of their business.

But watching politics on all sides I realize this is a minority view. Humans love nothing more than deciding how others should live.

thd7t

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2015, 06:47:18 AM »
I just spent a week with some serious spendy people (it was really weird, they went shopping while we went to a nature center).  It never even crossed my mind to tell them about mustachianism, because they seem as happy as I am (which is quite happy).  Speaking out against waste, however, is probably okay, because you should feel comfortable telling others about your values.  They have the right to disagree with you, but that's okay, too.

Ricky

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2015, 07:10:06 AM »
Well what others do with their money, as long as it's legal, is really not your business. There's nothing wrong with trying to change the world, but that's not going to work by trying to change every individual first. The best you can do is direct people to this blog, which is what I've done. They'll read a few articles and either love it or hate it. 99% will hate it.

I find your first and last paragraphs to contradict one another. As you said, the motivation to be and arrival of being wealthy is definitely not the be all end all. People value different things. MMM may not have been a super wasteful person in some ways, but he has had expensive houses and still spent quite a bit before settling down into the blog. There has to be balance. Why live in one of the worlds richest countries with myriads of opportunities if you're not going to take advantage of SOME of the finer things in life? This is, of course, after you've taken care of your "normal" expenses.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 07:14:43 AM by Ricky »

2ndTimer

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 07:37:13 AM »
As Amy Dacyczyn says of compulsive upgraders, "Don't get mad, get friendly."  Those folks eat sloppy and all kinds of crumbs fall from their tables.  For example, I just rescued an broken espresso maker that my neighbor was about to throw out while cleaning her garage.  It's the same model as mine but has a different issue.  If I hadn't been hanging out with her, I wouldn't have spotted it.

FLBiker

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 07:42:19 AM »
Agree with others about NOT expressing it.

This has been a gradual process for me.  As a sober Buddhist environmentalist, there are lots of things that seem normal to me that are weird to other folks (and vice versa). When I was younger (teens / 20s) I was pretty outspoken re: environmental things.  Needless to say, that didn't make a lick of difference.  I've found that as I've focused on my own actions, my impulse to tell other people what they should be doing has greatly diminished.

At the same time, I'm open with folks around me.  For example, people I work with know that I bike to work, don't drink, meditate, etc., and I've had folks talk to me about all of those things at different times.  I've also made myself available for advice w/ retirement planning.  While I have had a couple people ask, I actually feel like this is more taboo (for other folks) than any of the other areas.  It's kind of weird.

Similarly, w/ family / friends, I never tell them how they should live, but the difference between our lifestyles is pretty clear (when swapping vacation stories, for example).  And we are very direct in terms of what we would / would not like in terms of gifts (especially now that we have a kid).  That said, people sometimes follow our preferences and sometimes they don't.  Fortunately, there's always Craigslist!

In general, I'm a big believer in the fact that you can't tell other people anything.  You can't change them.  If you happen to meet someone who is at a teachable moment in their life, and they sincerely want to change, and you have experience in this area, and they ask you for advice, there may be like a 10% chance that you can help them change.  Even in these cases, though, habits are strong.

humbleMouse

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 09:12:32 AM »
In general, I'm a big believer in the fact that you can't tell other people anything.  You can't change them.  If you happen to meet someone who is at a teachable moment in their life, and they sincerely want to change, and you have experience in this area, and they ask you for advice, there may be like a 10% chance that you can help them change.  Even in these cases, though, habits are strong.

+1

Kitsunegari

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 10:47:40 AM »
Live your life and let them live theirs. As long as they don't ask you to support their lifestyle, it's not your problem what they do with their money.
After all, if it wasn't for traditional consumers, our stocks would be worthless and our thrift stores would be empty.

Easye418

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2015, 10:49:34 AM »
Ehm, I don't? What other people do is none of my  business, just as my life is none of their business.

But watching politics on all sides I realize this is a minority view. Humans love nothing more than deciding how others should live.

Live your life and let them live theirs. As long as they don't ask you to support their lifestyle, it's not your problem what they do with their money.
After all, if it wasn't for traditional consumers, our stocks would be worthless and our thrift stores would be empty.

Bingo wings.  Hit it right on the head.

For the most part, I like my neighbors.  However, some of them are Joneses and I secretly laugh at them in my head.  For example, trades in BMW for brand new SUV, no kids... I buy value minded theatre room, he buys a $4k projector.

Consumerium is sickening. I think finding the MMM way yourself is the best way to find it.  Only bad thing is I found it AFTER I bought my first house.

I used to have 10 plus monthly debts, now I have 2, Mortgage and Student Loans.  I have paid off over $20k dollars of debt in the last 3 months and now we have opened up $2k cash flow monthly to pay down Debts and I increased my 401k savings from 6% to 15% (w/ 3% emp match). 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 11:02:37 AM by Easye418 »

DaveR

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2015, 11:28:14 AM »
Maybe I gave the wrong impression. I'm not pedaling by SUVs yelling at their drivers, "You're ruining the world!" Nor am a I spouting off, unprompted. But I do get the "I wish I could do that" comment about not having to work much, or working from home, or just hanging out with my kid because there was no school. I usually just blow it off, but lately have been replying with some form of "you can do it too." It's not magic, though changing a consumer mentality might seem like it.

Money is an emotional topic. Habits are strong. I get that telling someone how to live is a recipe for disaster (I was once a teenager). And your values and priorities are likely different than mine. I suppose I'm trying to find the right way to convey my message. Though far from being discouraged--I'm learning a lot!--it's been a frustratingly interesting journey so far. 

I'm probably being naive, but it's a bit unexpected that there is a "let them live their lives" sentiment. This community is so supportive and transformational. I keep seeing discussions and advice that I know is making a difference in people's lives.


Kaspian

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2015, 12:39:14 PM »
Actually, I don't believe in the whole "shut up and mind your business" thing.  Expressing some form of disapproval for a behaviour or activity is what evolves the collective conscious of us all.  I don't go ranting like a lunatic, but idling cars, excessive plastic packaging, litter, fast fashion, rabid consumerism, crap food, self-imposed-debt-bitching are all subjects I'll be quite vocal about if prompted.  Maybe I could be accused of being on a high horse but no friend of mine is gonna walk around in a selfish, idiotic, zombie haze of inconsiderate environment pollution.

Kaikou

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2015, 03:28:11 PM »
Meh.

I agree with someone up thread. I collect their crumbs.

mozar

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2015, 04:00:00 PM »
I spouted off for 20 years of my life (10 years old to 30). Even though I was 100% right about everything I talked about (consumerism, environmentalism, automation) I never changed anyone's mind.

Recently though I find that people are approaching me about minimalism, frugality etc. I wish I could help people more but I just do what I can. i've pushed my mom the hardest and she has fought me for ten years. But I recently got her to read some books. She actually said the some tenants from the millionaire next door are a good idea. Never thought I would hear that.

Sibley

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Re: Why is this so difficult? Should I just shave it off?
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2015, 08:30:02 PM »
Do you want to be the annoying guy who forces your views on things on other people? Or the nice guy who's a bit odd, but leaves others to live their lives and is happy to answer questions when asked?

That's kinda the difference.