Author Topic: Quit the job I hate?  (Read 6624 times)

bdbrooks

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Quit the job I hate?
« on: February 20, 2014, 08:59:59 AM »
I am currently working as an actuary, but the hours leave me no mental room for life (about 60 hours a week and others around me are closer to 70). I am becoming seriously stressed out, and I'm ready to be done. I have only recently come across the MMM philosophy, but I have been living pretty mustachian my whole life. I'm 25 with a paid for house and 60k in Roth IRA's and 401k's. My wife and I are living comfortably on 27k a year.

Here's the deal, my wife wants to take travel nursing gig. It would pay about 10 per hour more than her current job...PLUS housing stipend, meals stipend, travel stipend, and we could rent out our current house (the stipends are tax free as long as we jump through a few hoops).

I would obviously have to find something for me to do. I would likely pick up with an online tutoring company (I tutored 15 hours a week in college) at $20 an hour. I would also look into becoming a CFP to help people with financial decisions (3/4 people I know need some serious help their financial decision making). I know that this would start of slow on hours and virtually non existent pay, but it could be a good long term thing for me. I have been helping friends in this capacity for about 6-8 months know and I am loving it.

I want to call my fellow mustachians to help point out things I may not have considered and just to get some general feedback before I quit a well paying very stable job.

PS: we would be able to move down to 1 car and cut our car expenses from about 8k a year to 1000-1500 a year with me working online and her apartment is always within walking/biking distance of her hospital. That would move us much closer to the 20k range of annual expenses.

Cwadda

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2014, 09:16:19 AM »
Happiness > Money

Take this with a grain of salt, because I'm only 19 and haven't entered the workforce. Well, I kind of have, but not the "major" workforce. I dropped out of the Pharmacy program at my university because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I spent countless hours studying and stressing to the point where I didn't eat and my body deteriorated. I am so happy that I decided to pursue another degree. Now I'm on pace for graduating early.

It sounds like you're already in very good financial shape. Decreasing your expenses further would take off some of the mental pressure that you wouldn't be earning as much. Your spouse would be earning more with better benefits, too. If you rented out your house, that just increases your cash flow further.

It seems like you're leaning toward quitting the job. I value happiness above all else; the money will come. It might be corny to say this, but money doesn't make you more happy. Things will work out.

nereo

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2014, 09:17:49 AM »
I am currently working as an actuary, but the hours leave me no mental room for life (about 60 hours a week and others around me are closer to 70). I am becoming seriously stressed out, and I'm ready to be done. I have only recently come across the MMM philosophy, but I have been living pretty mustachian my whole life. I'm 25 with a paid for house and 60k in Roth IRA's and 401k's. My wife and I are living comfortably on 27k a year.

Here's the deal, my wife wants to take travel nursing gig. It would pay about 10 per hour more than her current job...PLUS housing stipend, meals stipend, travel stipend, and we could rent out our current house (the stipends are tax free as long as we jump through a few hoops).

I would obviously have to find something for me to do. I would likely pick up with an online tutoring company (I tutored 15 hours a week in college) at $20 an hour. I would also look into becoming a CFP to help people with financial decisions (3/4 people I know need some serious help their financial decision making). I know that this would start of slow on hours and virtually non existent pay, but it could be a good long term thing for me. I have been helping friends in this capacity for about 6-8 months know and I am loving it.

I want to call my fellow mustachians to help point out things I may not have considered and just to get some general feedback before I quit a well paying very stable job.

PS: we would be able to move down to 1 car and cut our car expenses from about 8k a year to 1000-1500 a year with me working online and her apartment is always within walking/biking distance of her hospital. That would move us much closer to the 20k range of annual expenses.

Salutations

If you hate, hate, hate your job then I think the decision is pretty easy - quit.  THe decision is made even easier insofar as your wife will still have an income, and that you have a house already paid off, and you have already realized that you can live on $27k a year (or less)!

Life is too short to do something you really hate for very long.  The *only* reason I would stay in your current job given your extreme dislike for it, is if you were being paid so much money that you could "tough-it-out" for another year and save boatloads of cash.  But it would have to be exactly that--- boatloads (plural).  The kind where you can max-out your 401(k) *and* and IRA *and* save thousands in taxable accounts.
You are 25 and it sounds like you can get by with what your wife makes.  Other opportunities will become available to you, probably more quickly than you realize. Becoming a CFP is one example.

for specifics... we need more specifics for you.  60k in tax-deferred savings is a good start for your age, but I would not touch it.  Do you have an emergency fund?  Cash on hand?  Any outstanding debts (student loans, car payments, other obligations?) Any upcoming expenses (children, parents in poor-health, etc?).  What's the possibility of your wife being "laid off" (seems unlikely from what I understand of the health-care industry)?

To me this sounds like a no-brainer.  Quit what you hate since you know you can get by with what you have already.  Find something you love.  You will be happier, and your wife will be happier by extension.
Cheers
N

« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 09:20:42 AM by nereo »

nereo

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2014, 09:22:59 AM »
bdbrookes:

I'm curious what online tutoring companies you are looking into. I'm considering doing the same, since I can work from home and I spent a lot of time as a graduate student tutoring. I would love to make $15-20/hr tutoring again as a side income, if the hours are flexible.

N

Workinghard

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2014, 09:47:07 AM »
I was a traveling nurse years ago and things may have changed but some things to consider.

1. Cost of nursing license. Some states have reciprocity and some don't.  Some companies will pay for your license and some won't.

2.  Distance of jobs. Will you fly or drive? If you fly then you will need a car once you get there.

3. Travelers often get dumped on by hospitals and other staff as far as assignments.  She may or may not have guaranteed hours. It depends on the company and the facility. The facilities pay travelers more, so if they don't need the staff they may want to cancel them unless they can't because of the contract.  She may also be required to work extra hours. And usually there is a clause where her contract can be canceled if they no longer have a need for her.

4.  You can have down time in between jobs. Conversely you can renew contracts numerous times at the same facility. I was a traveler for two years at the hospital where I met my husband.  After a while, the stress of never knowing if they would renew my contract got old. They would drag it out until the last minute.

5.  Subsidies are for your wife not you. It may or may not cover her expenses. It won't cover yours.

6. It's a little stressful always being the new employee and not knowing the policies and procedures, or the routine, or the paperwork. Flexibility is a big key.

7. It can definitely put a strain on your marriage if she is working long hours and you're just along for the ride.Picking up an online job would be great and definitely make things easier moving from place to place.

Just a few things to check into. As I said, things may have changed from 20 + years ago when I was a traveler,  met my dh,  got married, and lived happily ever after. 

bdbrooks

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2014, 10:02:14 AM »
I am currently working as an actuary, but the hours leave me no mental room for life (about 60 hours a week and others around me are closer to 70). I am becoming seriously stressed out, and I'm ready to be done. I have only recently come across the MMM philosophy, but I have been living pretty mustachian my whole life. I'm 25 with a paid for house and 60k in Roth IRA's and 401k's. My wife and I are living comfortably on 27k a year.

Here's the deal, my wife wants to take travel nursing gig. It would pay about 10 per hour more than her current job...PLUS housing stipend, meals stipend, travel stipend, and we could rent out our current house (the stipends are tax free as long as we jump through a few hoops).

I would obviously have to find something for me to do. I would likely pick up with an online tutoring company (I tutored 15 hours a week in college) at $20 an hour. I would also look into becoming a CFP to help people with financial decisions (3/4 people I know need some serious help their financial decision making). I know that this would start of slow on hours and virtually non existent pay, but it could be a good long term thing for me. I have been helping friends in this capacity for about 6-8 months know and I am loving it.

I want to call my fellow mustachians to help point out things I may not have considered and just to get some general feedback before I quit a well paying very stable job.

PS: we would be able to move down to 1 car and cut our car expenses from about 8k a year to 1000-1500 a year with me working online and her apartment is always within walking/biking distance of her hospital. That would move us much closer to the 20k range of annual expenses.

Salutations

If you hate, hate, hate your job then I think the decision is pretty easy - quit.  THe decision is made even easier insofar as your wife will still have an income, and that you have a house already paid off, and you have already realized that you can live on $27k a year (or less)!

Life is too short to do something you really hate for very long.  The *only* reason I would stay in your current job given your extreme dislike for it, is if you were being paid so much money that you could "tough-it-out" for another year and save boatloads of cash.  But it would have to be exactly that--- boatloads (plural).  The kind where you can max-out your 401(k) *and* and IRA *and* save thousands in taxable accounts.
You are 25 and it sounds like you can get by with what your wife makes.  Other opportunities will become available to you, probably more quickly than you realize. Becoming a CFP is one example.

for specifics... we need more specifics for you.  60k in tax-deferred savings is a good start for your age, but I would not touch it.  Do you have an emergency fund?  Cash on hand?  Any outstanding debts (student loans, car payments, other obligations?) Any upcoming expenses (children, parents in poor-health, etc?).  What's the possibility of your wife being "laid off" (seems unlikely from what I understand of the health-care industry)?

To me this sounds like a no-brainer.  Quit what you hate since you know you can get by with what you have already.  Find something you love.  You will be happier, and your wife will be happier by extension.
Cheers
N

We have no debt of any kind (cars, student loan, credit card, mortgage). We have a net worth just north of 200k (115 house, 60 retirement funds, 3 HSA, 30 in cash mixed between emergency fund and other short term savings). No big upcoming expenses. And the only way she wouldn't have a good paying nursing job would be if she hated it or she had a catastrophic nursing mistake and lost her license. She has 2 years experience at an ER with one of the highest penetrating traumas in the country (gun shots and stabbing a mostly). She also has more certifications than most nurses that have been in the ER for 5-10 years (including her boss).

Thanks for the feedback. I know I will be quitting, but I just want to be prepared for when I do (in a couple of months). Everyone I actually talk to says that it makes sense, but my family is made up of workaholics (my dad is a doc that has never worked less than 100 hours a week), and I will likely be getting only 20-30 hours a week between tutoring and financial coaching. So I am just wanting to get some advise with people that have more life experience than me (most everyone on here).

A friend made a good point about if my wife got pregnant (we are not planning on having kids, but we need to be prepared). So we are factoring that into our emergency fund. Please let me know if you can think of other concerns or scenarios that we should be prepared for.

bdbrooks

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 10:17:21 AM »
bdbrookes:

I'm curious what online tutoring companies you are looking into. I'm considering doing the same, since I can work from home and I spent a lot of time as a graduate student tutoring. I would love to make $15-20/hr tutoring again as a side income, if the hours are flexible.

N

Instaedu.com
Tutor.com

Those are 2 that I can remember off the top of my head. In college I found my own students and made about $30 an hour. However, with traveling, the online route would be the way to go, and these companies will find students for you, and let you focus on tutoring.

bdbrooks

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 10:54:11 AM »
I was a traveling nurse years ago and things may have changed but some things to consider.

1. Cost of nursing license. Some states have reciprocity and some don't.  Some companies will pay for your license and some won't.

2.  Distance of jobs. Will you fly or drive? If you fly then you will need a car once you get there.

3. Travelers often get dumped on by hospitals and other staff as far as assignments.  She may or may not have guaranteed hours. It depends on the company and the facility. The facilities pay travelers more, so if they don't need the staff they may want to cancel them unless they can't because of the contract.  She may also be required to work extra hours. And usually there is a clause where her contract can be canceled if they no longer have a need for her.

4.  You can have down time in between jobs. Conversely you can renew contracts numerous times at the same facility. I was a traveler for two years at the hospital where I met my husband.  After a while, the stress of never knowing if they would renew my contract got old. They would drag it out until the last minute.

5.  Subsidies are for your wife not you. It may or may not cover her expenses. It won't cover yours.

6. It's a little stressful always being the new employee and not knowing the policies and procedures, or the routine, or the paperwork. Flexibility is a big key.

7. It can definitely put a strain on your marriage if she is working long hours and you're just along for the ride.Picking up an online job would be great and definitely make things easier moving from place to place.

Just a few things to check into. As I said, things may have changed from 20 + years ago when I was a traveler,  met my dh,  got married, and lived happily ever after.

Thanks so much for your response. This is how I would answer your concerns. Feel free to call me out if you think I'm being ignorant and not fully understanding. You are obviously the one that has been there and done that.

1) she currently works in MO which has reciprocity with several other states (around 15 I think). Agencies will typically offer to pay for your license (granted it will come out of your hourly rate, but at least it is done tax free).

2) we will likely drive (except when we go to Alaska, which will be somewhat a vacation). We want to be able to operate without a car (even though we will likely still have 1).

3-4) we are planning on down time as her vacation. We are planning on her working 35 hours a week (let's just say that MMM article on safety margin resonates with us), and having a few weeks break between contracts. She has done more research on this than I have, but I will ask her to look into the likelyhood of getting canceled or shorted on hours. We are planning on moving around every 3-6 months. So there should be less stress of getting an extension.

5) housing stipend- I can live there. Travel stipend- I can ride along in the car (granted it typically won't cover all of the cost). Meals stipend- it looks like the agencies give a fixed amount per week (that would be well more than enough for both of us). Now I believe the portion that I consume would actually be taxable, (but the agency will still give it). Also, we only spend about 300 a month on groceries for the 2 of us (including lots of organic fruit, veggies, and gluten free for her). While the stipends are not intended for me, it doesn't mean that I can't benefit from them.

6) this is the one that I am most concerned with her. However, if she doesn't like it, then we will just finish the contract and go back home. If it doesn't suit her well we can always change. However, she loves to travel. We have been to South Africa, Haiti, India, and all across America.

7) she enjoys working a decent amount of hours. She is full time at an ER. PRN at a surgery center. She has a speaking arrangement where she goes into middle schools and high schools and gives a presentation on STD's.

schimt

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 11:03:15 AM »
an interesting podcast titled "the upside of quitting" from freakenomics. The link is below, you can also get it on your phone from your favorite podcast app

http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/30/new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-the-upside-of-quitting/

Some stories of quitters with happy endings ect.

Workinghard

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2014, 11:29:03 AM »
Bdbrooks, is sounds like both of you have really thought through things!  I wasn't trying to be discouraging.  I just wanted to point out things that you might not have thought about.

I used to work ER and ICU. I had ACLS, PALS, NALS, TNCC, and my CEN and CCRN. Also had another ER cert but can't remember it now.  I worked in ICU and ER for about six years. Then I was a hospital supervisor for eight years. Then I took a leave of absence for ten years. I just started working again two years ago.

Back in the day, I enjoyed traveling as a nurse. I also worked a couple of strikes. It was a great way to go and see new places.  Now that I'm older, I prefer a more laid back job.

bdbrooks

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 01:58:36 PM »
an interesting podcast titled "the upside of quitting" from freakenomics. The link is below, you can also get it on your phone from your favorite podcast app

http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/30/new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-the-upside-of-quitting/

Some stories of quitters with happy endings ect.

Thanks! I'm listening to it now...while at work. Yes. I'm learning about quitting my job AT my job.

RichWard

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2014, 02:33:02 PM »
an interesting podcast titled "the upside of quitting" from freakenomics. The link is below, you can also get it on your phone from your favorite podcast app

http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/30/new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-the-upside-of-quitting/

Some stories of quitters with happy endings ect.

Thanks! I'm listening to it now...while at work. Yes. I'm learning about quitting my job AT my job.

That is awesome. I've been debating a similar situation, although it's not as easy since I'm not debt free. Always looking for better opportunities, but right now I'm in "save" mode in order to have a year + of living expenses (including minimum debt payments) before making the jump. Good luck!

jrhampt

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2014, 04:05:55 PM »
At first glance, this sounds like an awesome setup! 

The only thing that would give me pause is this: in my experience, actuaries get paid more than god, and this is because they have to put in a lot of hours to pass all those grueling exams.  I don't know how much time you've invested in this and how far along in the exams you are, but that is something that I would consider. 

Dee18

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2014, 08:07:24 PM »
Sounds great! If you decide you want to go. Back to actuarial work you can honestly tell employers your wife really wanted to do this while young and you agreed.  But sounds like you will have a second career going soon. 

bdbrooks

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Re: Quit the job I hate?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2014, 09:40:13 PM »
an interesting podcast titled "the upside of quitting" from freakenomics. The link is below, you can also get it on your phone from your favorite podcast app

http://freakonomics.com/2011/09/30/new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-the-upside-of-quitting/

Some stories of quitters with happy endings ect.

This was the nail in the coffin. I know I will be looked down upon in my family for not roughing it out, but I need to disconnect myself from trying to fulfill other people's expectation for me. I had bought the lie of winners never quit and quitters never win. I will quit something that I don't care to win to go after something I love.

Really I don't have too much sunk cost (I'm only 25 no student loans). I KNOW FOR A FACT, that I would regret staying at a job I hate for more than a year or so.

I have only passed 3 exams and have put less than 2 years into actuarial work. After you adjust for hours the pay is still pretty good. However, when you live like a mustachian, the extra dough isn't worth it for the stress.