Author Topic: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak  (Read 16981 times)

galliver

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2017, 02:17:32 PM »
Not skinny-fat* (rather, the regular kind :( ) but an irregular exerciser so I've been through those first-week pains many a time (ohh, fun). In fact, doing it again this week :/ . Here are my tips from those experiences, assuming you're healthy and this is just regular exercise pain (I would add my vote to the "see a doctor to make sure you're ok" camp, too)...

1) I tend to start too fast. A lot of people apparently do. I'm fighting myself on it this time around. I'm trying to get into a weight-training routine but I started really, really simply/easily (for me...what is well within your limits will of course vary!)...5x30s planks and some squats on Monday, 5x30s+1x50s planks, BW lunges, and jumping jacks yesterday. I can do more, and in fact need to do more to work to exhaustion...but my abs were already sore Tues night (and into Weds) just from that. Unlike when I overdo it at the start: manageably sore so I could move around and stuff.
2) The soreness does get better. At one point I took this group class and after it ended worked with a trainer on a regular basis which got me doing more strength training exercises; eventually I needed to work to where my limbs were shaking to feel even a twinge of soreness the next day. Your body does adapt and you will get there, but it's ok to start just getting them used to *working*.
3) Using the muscles a little when they are sore helps with the soreness. Walking, or doing some body twists or arm circles (just using those muscles, warming them up, stretching them) makes you less stiff and sore.
4) How's your sleep? I find when I work out properly I need an hour more (8-9 hrs instead of 7-8, I already need lots of sleeps). Also helps with the pain.

MMHubb

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2017, 02:42:28 PM »
Hey there!
Good for you for wanting to make a change! My advice...don't be afraid/ashamed for all the baby steps! If 10 girl push ups are hard, then start there. Build yourself up so that 10 girl push ups are easy. Do 2 push ups, take a 1 minute break, then repeat that 5x. Do this daily, then maybe up it to three push ups in one shot, then 5 and so on. Same goes with squats and running. Don't be worried that the reps or distance isn't good enough. Make your workouts easy so you are not in so much pain the next day, but be CONSISTENT!
You got this! Don't give up on yourself and keep trying!

Carlin

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2017, 03:06:56 PM »
Hey there!
Good for you for wanting to make a change! My advice...don't be afraid/ashamed for all the baby steps! If 10 girl push ups are hard, then start there. Build yourself up so that 10 girl push ups are easy. Do 2 push ups, take a 1 minute break, then repeat that 5x. Do this daily, then maybe up it to three push ups in one shot, then 5 and so on. Same goes with squats and running. Don't be worried that the reps or distance isn't good enough. Make your workouts easy so you are not in so much pain the next day, but be CONSISTENT!
You got this! Don't give up on yourself and keep trying!

Thank you so much for the inspiration! I think this is a good way to go.  Some of the previous comments have me afraid that there is something wrong with me, but I feel great! I'm just....weak.  Not in a tired or ill way...just in the sense that my body isn't strong.  I think I will spend some time working on baby steps, and improving my diet and see how I progress from there.  I turned my finances around on $10/hr.  I can do this!

Laura33

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2017, 04:04:06 PM »
Carlin, unfortunately, you are exactly the type of patient who can fall through the gaps on chronic health concerns. You aren't old and obese, so for now, you appear quite healthy by comparison. Your term "skinny fat" is right on, and is the most under-diagnosed group for diabetes. There are lots of other potential health explanations to (ex, being a woman in her early 20s, you're also prime time for the onset of a lot of autoimmune conditions). Either way, it's worth bringing these specific complaints to a doctor. Drinking a lot, leg pain, low appetite, and extreme/ongoing soreness in particular. Those are fairly distinct symptoms. Like I said, it could be absolutely nothing, but I still think it's a good idea to get checked out. A general physical is such a quick thing that unless you "look the type" for a disease (ie, obese/older/minority) and unless you have specific symptom complaints, it's pretty easy to miss things.

Wishing you the best! You action plan looks awesome. =) You've gotten great advice here.

I actually think there are a lot of health problems that go undiagnosed in young women. I'm not sure why symptoms aren't taken seriously, but it is incredibly frustrating. It's like, "oh, young women are overdramatic" or some similar attitude.  It took almost 15 years of (in hindsight) incredibly obvious symptoms for my endocrine disorder to be diagnosed, and it only happened because I went to one doctor finally and demanded very specific tests after doing a bunch of research on my own. Not one doctor (and I'd seen half a dozen) had ever suggested any follow up tests or offered any suggestions of possible diagnoses. You really have to learn to advocate hard, or they will blow you off.

I've been back on this merry go round again for the past 5 years. Now it seems to be "oh, you must be in menopause" or similar attitude. Finally they start doing tests, and are shocked at some of the weird results. Still no idea what is causing my issues, but at least weird tests force them to pay attention and make some sort of attempt to figure it out. So tiresome.

Preach.  I complained for a decade of exhaustion, weight gain, mental fuzziness (to the point I was worried about early Alzheimer's), and all I got was "you need to eat better and exercise  more."  It wasn't until my ob/gyn ordered bloodwork after my second miscarriage that they discovered my thyroid was massively off.  Gee, umm, sorry, here's that decade of your life back.  I'm still salty about that one.

So, Carlin, don't let them brush you off -- get a full workup, including the full slate of bloodwork.  No one is going to look out for your health more than you will.  Also, FWIW, I found my chiropractor had a great set of exercises to rehab/strengthen back muscles -- I think many of their patients come as a result of car accidents and the like, so it is probably worth a visit or two for back-specific exercises and stretches.

wenchsenior

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2017, 04:44:40 PM »
Hey there!
Good for you for wanting to make a change! My advice...don't be afraid/ashamed for all the baby steps! If 10 girl push ups are hard, then start there. Build yourself up so that 10 girl push ups are easy. Do 2 push ups, take a 1 minute break, then repeat that 5x. Do this daily, then maybe up it to three push ups in one shot, then 5 and so on. Same goes with squats and running. Don't be worried that the reps or distance isn't good enough. Make your workouts easy so you are not in so much pain the next day, but be CONSISTENT!
You got this! Don't give up on yourself and keep trying!

Thank you so much for the inspiration! I think this is a good way to go.  Some of the previous comments have me afraid that there is something wrong with me, but I feel great! I'm just....weak.  Not in a tired or ill way...just in the sense that my body isn't strong.  I think I will spend some time working on baby steps, and improving my diet and see how I progress from there.  I turned my finances around on $10/hr.  I can do this!

You CAN.

MsPeacock

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2017, 07:50:42 PM »
Carlin, unfortunately, you are exactly the type of patient who can fall through the gaps on chronic health concerns. You aren't old and obese, so for now, you appear quite healthy by comparison. Your term "skinny fat" is right on, and is the most under-diagnosed group for diabetes. There are lots of other potential health explanations to (ex, being a woman in her early 20s, you're also prime time for the onset of a lot of autoimmune conditions). Either way, it's worth bringing these specific complaints to a doctor. Drinking a lot, leg pain, low appetite, and extreme/ongoing soreness in particular. Those are fairly distinct symptoms. Like I said, it could be absolutely nothing, but I still think it's a good idea to get checked out. A general physical is such a quick thing that unless you "look the type" for a disease (ie, obese/older/minority) and unless you have specific symptom complaints, it's pretty easy to miss things.

Wishing you the best! You action plan looks awesome. =) You've gotten great advice here.

I actually think there are a lot of health problems that go undiagnosed in young women. I'm not sure why symptoms aren't taken seriously, but it is incredibly frustrating. It's like, "oh, young women are overdramatic" or some similar attitude.  It took almost 15 years of (in hindsight) incredibly obvious symptoms for my endocrine disorder to be diagnosed, and it only happened because I went to one doctor finally and demanded very specific tests after doing a bunch of research on my own. Not one doctor (and I'd seen half a dozen) had ever suggested any follow up tests or offered any suggestions of possible diagnoses. You really have to learn to advocate hard, or they will blow you off.

I've been back on this merry go round again for the past 5 years. Now it seems to be "oh, you must be in menopause" or similar attitude. Finally they start doing tests, and are shocked at some of the weird results. Still no idea what is causing my issues, but at least weird tests force them to pay attention and make some sort of attempt to figure it out. So tiresome.

Preach.  I complained for a decade of exhaustion, weight gain, mental fuzziness (to the point I was worried about early Alzheimer's), and all I got was "you need to eat better and exercise  more."  It wasn't until my ob/gyn ordered bloodwork after my second miscarriage that they discovered my thyroid was massively off.  Gee, umm, sorry, here's that decade of your life back.  I'm still salty about that one.

So, Carlin, don't let them brush you off -- get a full workup, including the full slate of bloodwork.  No one is going to look out for your health more than you will.  Also, FWIW, I found my chiropractor had a great set of exercises to rehab/strengthen back muscles -- I think many of their patients come as a result of car accidents and the like, so it is probably worth a visit or two for back-specific exercises and stretches.

Another yup on this one, although it may not be the case for this OP. I had increasing joint pain for many years and it was basically blown off as "you're getting old" (I was 33 when first told this) or "you're too sensitive". And multiple incorrect diagnoses based on incomplete evaluations. Turned out to be a chronic hard to diagnosis rheumatoid condition that usually effects much older and sicker people (i am otherwise very healthy). My rheumatologist is a miracle worker. Mostly pain free now and able to do triathalons when at one time I could barely walk the dog around the block and thought it was because I was "old" at 45.

Lucky Recardito

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2017, 07:44:10 AM »
... can we please not say "girl pushups?" As a woman for whom many pushups (on toes) are a regular part of my workout routine, and who is married to a man who can eke out maybe 5 on his knees before he starts whining, this is one of my personal pet peeves. :-)

Also, both kinds of push-ups are really, really good for you -- toes includes more muscles and gives more resistance, but on knees is an AWESOME exercise.

OP, I'm going to throw in what worked for me: packaged, planned video series aimed at strength-building. I started with Power 90, which is now so old that (a) it is HILARIOUS to watch, and (b) you can find it for super-cheap on Amazon or eBay. What I liked about it is that it gave me a couple of structured workouts (including stuff focused on muscle-building, which was totally new to me) and a calendar to follow. I am a box-checker naturally, so I liked having a program that said, "you will do THIS on this day and then THAT on the next day." And all you need is a resistance band (which may come with the DVD set, or you can get one for a few bucks) and like 5 square feet in front of your TV (I did this in a tiny apartment by putting my coffee table on the couch every morning).

After that, I worked up to P90X, which totally changed my body and my strength -- and now I rotate through a bunch of the Beach Body* programs on the regular.

You WILL be sore, and as others have said, you just have to work through it. I still vividly remember my first really hard workout: I felt fine that day, and the following morning got on a plane for a business trip. I knew there was trouble when I couldn't put my carry-on in the overhead compartment because I couldn't lift my suitcase above my head.... 15 hours later I hit a new low when I woke up alone in the middle of a hotel king-sized bed and couldn't get out to go to the bathroom, because I could neither sit up nor roll over... by day 2, I was an embarrassing disaster in front of my client, unable to go down stairs or get into or out of a chair. As others have said, it goes away faster if you actually keep working out (rather than waiting for the pain to subside). And after ~2 weeks of regular exercise, it won't be an issue anymore. Sure, I can make myself sore sometimes... but not to that level. And the story of debilitating myself with a few squats still kills at parties. :-)

And on the diet front... I'm not too far off from your basic size: 5'4" 135 lb, mostly size 2-ish... and I easily eat twice as much as you every day (and my weight and size have been pretty stable for ~3 years). As others have said, look for ways to add calories in the form of protein and fat. Start by adding a protein-based breakfast to your day, even if it's  just a lil' cup of yogurt or a single hard-boiled egg (I find the latter particularly easy to eat on the way to work or when I get to my desk). Pack a baggie of nuts and keep it at your desk; snack throughout the day. Just by adding an egg & some nuts, you've added a couple hundred really high-quality calories to your diet without throwing off your work routine or eating a big messy feast at your desk. 

Good luck -- getting strong is really, really rewarding and fun!

*NB: I hate the name of this company, because I believe that if you have a body and go to the beach, you have a beach body... and they are structured as an MLM and also sell a lot of supplements, which isn't my jam. But I find the workouts GREAT, and you can usually find the video series on ebay or Amazon for a reasonable price.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2017, 08:14:52 AM »
Hey there!
Good for you for wanting to make a change! My advice...don't be afraid/ashamed for all the baby steps! If 10 girl push ups are hard, then start there. Build yourself up so that 10 girl push ups are easy. Do 2 push ups, take a 1 minute break, then repeat that 5x. Do this daily, then maybe up it to three push ups in one shot, then 5 and so on. Same goes with squats and running. Don't be worried that the reps or distance isn't good enough. Make your workouts easy so you are not in so much pain the next day, but be CONSISTENT!
You got this! Don't give up on yourself and keep trying!

Thank you so much for the inspiration! I think this is a good way to go.  Some of the previous comments have me afraid that there is something wrong with me, but I feel great! I'm just....weak.  Not in a tired or ill way...just in the sense that my body isn't strong.  I think I will spend some time working on baby steps, and improving my diet and see how I progress from there.  I turned my finances around on $10/hr.  I can do this!

So are you doing it?

The Happy Philosopher

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2017, 10:27:31 AM »
I've done a lot of experimentation with diet and exercise. Everyone is different, but I will share a few things that worked for me.

First: As Bracken_Joy and maybe others have pointed out, go get some labs and a check up from your doctor. The excessive thirst thing may be nothing, but it may be something.

Second: Having a spinal fusion will limit you. I'm assuming this was for scoliosis correction. Be careful and go slow with things that involve spinal motion. It is really important you build up the core muscles.

OK, with that out of the way I would experiment with your diet. I feel best with lower carbs and higher fats, but if your body is not used to this you will bonk while working out and feel like crap. There is nothing wrong with eating one meal a day, in fact intermittent fasting can have some cool benefits. Try eating a small breakfast with a decent amount of protein and see how this makes you feel.

On the exercise front:
1. Vigorous walking is awesome. Running is good too, but may not be your thing. If you are having 'side pain' with running make sure it is not your spine. If I had a big spinal fusion I  would probably not do much running, especially if it caused pain. Someone mentioned swimming - awesome idea! Swimming is excellent for core strength, balancing the shoulder and working all sorts of scapular stabilizers and arm muscles yo never knew you had.

2. Grease the groove. I think I heard this term from Pavel Tsatsouline on a Tim Ferris podcast. Basically do low reps multiple times per day. In other words if you can only do 10 pushups, don't do 10 pushups once a day and destroy yourself. You will feel terrible the next day. Instead do 3-5, but do it multiple times per day. I can not do 70 pushups in a row. If I tried this I would be unable to lift a spoon the next day. But I can do 10 sets of 10 in a day and feel totally fine. I would even be able to do it again the next day. You will see great progression using this concept. I can easily knock out 100 high quality pushups a day this way, and I started from barely being able to do 10.

3. Rest. It's not the exercise that makes you stronger, it is the recovery. If you are really sore the next day do not work those muscle groups again. They need to recover. If you are really sore you are doing too much and trying to progress too fast. Sometimes I just take a week off and do noting and I'm always amazed at how much stronger I am after that week of rest.

4. Basics. Many people (and a lot of women) focus on exercises that will not accomplish what they want. If you want to get strong and burn fat you need to build muscle. Muscle uses energy and calories. You build muscle by lifting heavy things. Dead-lifts and squats. Heavy. Low reps. Not to failure. Once you build muscle you will eat more. If you keep carbs low and fat high your body will change.

5. Kettle bell. I  do not have Olympic weights (yes, I should correct this problem), but the next best thing is a couple kettle bells. The two handed kettle bell swing is one of the best complete exercises for building strength in multiple muscle groups. When I was doing these three times per week to near failure I saw some of the biggest strength gains of my life in a short period of time. Grease the groove works well with these also. I would be really hesitant to do these without proper supervision and medical guidance with your surgery. Properly done they should be fine, but there is a bit of a learning curve.

6. Patience. You must have it. Think in terms of 6 month changes. You will overestimate what you can do in two weeks, nut underestimate what you can do in 6 months.

This is getting way too wordy, I should just write a damn blog post. Good luck. Keep us informed on your progress :)

mountains_o_mustaches

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2017, 11:24:15 AM »
Lots of good advice.  One thing you might look into w/ your doc is whether or not you would qualify for physical or recreational therapy (given back problems) - that way you'd be getting some personalized workout advice from someone trained to help people increase strength w/o re-injury and it would (potentially) be covered by our health insurance.  Often times those things need to get pre-approval, but your doc might be able to justify for you.  Good luck!

mountains_o_mustaches

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2017, 12:39:06 PM »
My advice, assuming you are medically cleared:

1)  Try a Couch to 5k program to build up cardiovascular endurance.  It starts out very easy, and you can build your way up to running 30 minutes straight.

2)  For strength, it sounds like you would be a good candidate for a simple bodyweight exercise program.  There is a subreddit for bodyweight fitness with a fantastic beginners routine, which you can also find with this app:  or on this website.

Loving the body weight app / website recommendation - just signed up.  Great tips! :)
Start slow, but be consistent.  If the pain you are feeling is muscle soreness, then ignore it and stick to the plan.  I would probably pick one of these two things to start out with, and then add the other after a few months.

Carlin

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2017, 01:54:46 PM »
Hey there!
Good for you for wanting to make a change! My advice...don't be afraid/ashamed for all the baby steps! If 10 girl push ups are hard, then start there. Build yourself up so that 10 girl push ups are easy. Do 2 push ups, take a 1 minute break, then repeat that 5x. Do this daily, then maybe up it to three push ups in one shot, then 5 and so on. Same goes with squats and running. Don't be worried that the reps or distance isn't good enough. Make your workouts easy so you are not in so much pain the next day, but be CONSISTENT!
You got this! Don't give up on yourself and keep trying!

Thank you so much for the inspiration! I think this is a good way to go.  Some of the previous comments have me afraid that there is something wrong with me, but I feel great! I'm just....weak.  Not in a tired or ill way...just in the sense that my body isn't strong.  I think I will spend some time working on baby steps, and improving my diet and see how I progress from there.  I turned my finances around on $10/hr.  I can do this!

So are you doing it?

Well, it's only been roughly a week since I originally posted, but I have made some changes and progress! I've started adding protein powder to my smoothie and forcing myself to drink it every morning, as well as making sure I get some protein in at lunchtime.  I've been working out roughly 30 minutes per day, and I've seen the number of half-pushups I can do increase, as well as my general endurance.  No physical changes to my weight or muscle mass yet though.  I did kind of mess up and have a bunch of beers and chicken wings with friends the other night, so my weight dipped and went back up again. 

Carlin

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2017, 01:55:57 PM »
... can we please not say "girl pushups?" As a woman for whom many pushups (on toes) are a regular part of my workout routine, and who is married to a man who can eke out maybe 5 on his knees before he starts whining, this is one of my personal pet peeves. :-)

Also, both kinds of push-ups are really, really good for you -- toes includes more muscles and gives more resistance, but on knees is an AWESOME exercise.

OP, I'm going to throw in what worked for me: packaged, planned video series aimed at strength-building. I started with Power 90, which is now so old that (a) it is HILARIOUS to watch, and (b) you can find it for super-cheap on Amazon or eBay. What I liked about it is that it gave me a couple of structured workouts (including stuff focused on muscle-building, which was totally new to me) and a calendar to follow. I am a box-checker naturally, so I liked having a program that said, "you will do THIS on this day and then THAT on the next day." And all you need is a resistance band (which may come with the DVD set, or you can get one for a few bucks) and like 5 square feet in front of your TV (I did this in a tiny apartment by putting my coffee table on the couch every morning).

After that, I worked up to P90X, which totally changed my body and my strength -- and now I rotate through a bunch of the Beach Body* programs on the regular.

You WILL be sore, and as others have said, you just have to work through it. I still vividly remember my first really hard workout: I felt fine that day, and the following morning got on a plane for a business trip. I knew there was trouble when I couldn't put my carry-on in the overhead compartment because I couldn't lift my suitcase above my head.... 15 hours later I hit a new low when I woke up alone in the middle of a hotel king-sized bed and couldn't get out to go to the bathroom, because I could neither sit up nor roll over... by day 2, I was an embarrassing disaster in front of my client, unable to go down stairs or get into or out of a chair. As others have said, it goes away faster if you actually keep working out (rather than waiting for the pain to subside). And after ~2 weeks of regular exercise, it won't be an issue anymore. Sure, I can make myself sore sometimes... but not to that level. And the story of debilitating myself with a few squats still kills at parties. :-)

And on the diet front... I'm not too far off from your basic size: 5'4" 135 lb, mostly size 2-ish... and I easily eat twice as much as you every day (and my weight and size have been pretty stable for ~3 years). As others have said, look for ways to add calories in the form of protein and fat. Start by adding a protein-based breakfast to your day, even if it's  just a lil' cup of yogurt or a single hard-boiled egg (I find the latter particularly easy to eat on the way to work or when I get to my desk). Pack a baggie of nuts and keep it at your desk; snack throughout the day. Just by adding an egg & some nuts, you've added a couple hundred really high-quality calories to your diet without throwing off your work routine or eating a big messy feast at your desk. 

Good luck -- getting strong is really, really rewarding and fun!

*NB: I hate the name of this company, because I believe that if you have a body and go to the beach, you have a beach body... and they are structured as an MLM and also sell a lot of supplements, which isn't my jam. But I find the workouts GREAT, and you can usually find the video series on ebay or Amazon for a reasonable price.

Duly noted :) I shall call them "Half-pushups" from here on out. 

NeonPegasus

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2017, 02:36:06 PM »
No physical changes to my weight or muscle mass yet though. 

As a newbie, you can expect to put on around 1 lb of muscle a month. You will start noticing a visible change in about 6 weeks of consistent work.

I did kind of mess up and have a bunch of beers and chicken wings with friends the other night, so my weight dipped and went back up again.

Story of my life. At least you know it's all water weight.

wenchsenior

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2017, 02:51:42 PM »
No physical changes to my weight or muscle mass yet though. 

As a newbie, you can expect to put on around 1 lb of muscle a month. You will start noticing a visible change in about 6 weeks of consistent work.

I did kind of mess up and have a bunch of beers and chicken wings with friends the other night, so my weight dipped and went back up again.

Story of my life. At least you know it's all water weight.

Heh. I actually read that (wrongly) as Carlin LOSING weight after a junk food binge. Which occasionally happens to me, weirdly. It's like I have backward metabolism.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2017, 04:15:09 PM »
I've started adding protein powder to my smoothie and forcing myself to drink it every morning, as well as making sure I get some protein in at lunchtime.  . . .  I did kind of mess up and have a bunch of beers and chicken wings with friends the other night, so my weight dipped and went back up again.
  I am just going to be blunt and say that the chicken wings and beer was better for you than the smoothie.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2017, 04:19:23 PM »
http://paleoleap.com/smoothies-breakfast-yes/

Quote
As an illustration, let’s start with a hypothetical cranberry-orange smoothie made out of “healthy” ingredients (no added sugar! All natural!). We’ll toss in ½ a banana, 1 clementine, a handful of cranberries, and 1 date, plus the ice and some seasonings. It sounds like something you might buy in a fancy health-food store, but this smoothie isn’t actually as “healthy” as it claims to be: here’s why, and how to fix it.

Problem #1: Protein and Fat
The first problem with our “healthy” smoothie is the macronutrient composition. Macronutrients are nutrients that we need in quantities large enough to measure in calories. The three macronutrients are protein, carbs, and fat. All three have different metabolic effects (that’s one reason why just calorie-counting isn’t a good idea, because it treats all calories as equal even though calories from different macronutrients have very different physical effects).
If you’re eating Paleo, a “meal” must include protein and fat. If it doesn’t have both protein and fat, it’s not a meal. But if you look at our “healthy” smoothie, it has almost no protein and almost no fat. It’s all carbs, and 2/3 of the carbs are from sugar.

Specifically, in 47 grams of carbohydrate, 32 are sugar. From a metabolic perspective (the breakdown of protein, carbs, fat, and calories), our “healthy” smoothie is very similar to two fun-sized packs of Skittles (36 grams of carbohydrate, of which 30 are sugar, almost nothing else) or 8 Tootsie rolls (46 grams of carbohydrate, of which 30 are sugar). Metabolically, you’re eating candy for breakfast.

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2017, 04:31:24 PM »
If you are thirsty a lot you may need more sodium in your diet. Most Americans do not, but if you're drinking a lot of coffee and tea, it's possible.

Carlin

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2017, 04:44:08 PM »
http://paleoleap.com/smoothies-breakfast-yes/

Quote
As an illustration, let’s start with a hypothetical cranberry-orange smoothie made out of “healthy” ingredients (no added sugar! All natural!). We’ll toss in ½ a banana, 1 clementine, a handful of cranberries, and 1 date, plus the ice and some seasonings. It sounds like something you might buy in a fancy health-food store, but this smoothie isn’t actually as “healthy” as it claims to be: here’s why, and how to fix it.

Problem #1: Protein and Fat
The first problem with our “healthy” smoothie is the macronutrient composition. Macronutrients are nutrients that we need in quantities large enough to measure in calories. The three macronutrients are protein, carbs, and fat. All three have different metabolic effects (that’s one reason why just calorie-counting isn’t a good idea, because it treats all calories as equal even though calories from different macronutrients have very different physical effects).
If you’re eating Paleo, a “meal” must include protein and fat. If it doesn’t have both protein and fat, it’s not a meal. But if you look at our “healthy” smoothie, it has almost no protein and almost no fat. It’s all carbs, and 2/3 of the carbs are from sugar.

Specifically, in 47 grams of carbohydrate, 32 are sugar. From a metabolic perspective (the breakdown of protein, carbs, fat, and calories), our “healthy” smoothie is very similar to two fun-sized packs of Skittles (36 grams of carbohydrate, of which 30 are sugar, almost nothing else) or 8 Tootsie rolls (46 grams of carbohydrate, of which 30 are sugar). Metabolically, you’re eating candy for breakfast.

Interesting info! My typical smoothie contains a large handful of spinach, 1/2 of a Banana, 2 TBS of flax seeds, almond or coconut milk, and fruit of my choice (Typically strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, or pineapple.)  Recently I've been adding protein powder.  Would the powder count as protein and the flax seeds fat, considering one serving has 12 grams of fat?

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2017, 05:07:06 PM »
Carlin,

I may take back what I said.

What I would like you to do is the following.  Sign up for MyFitnessPal.  It takes literally 30 seconds.  It's free.  Enter everything you eat into it.  You make a smoothy?  Fine.  Enter all the ingredients.  It will spit out for you the amount of carbs, sugars, protein, fats, and allow you to adjust them.

You can almost entirely adjust your body fat by adjusting your carbohydrate intake.

Of course, protein and fats are needed (there are essential fats and amino acids that your body cannot manufacture).  There is no need to consume sugars and carbohydrates.  The body just does not need them, especially if you are not doing a grueling 1.5 hour weight training workout or running a marathon (which carbs would help you get through).

To start with, shoot for 50/20/30

That's 50% protein, 20% carbs, 30% fat.

With the workouts you are doing, there is no reason to have your carbohydrates any higher than that, and it will still allow you to eat some of the carbohydrates you have been consuming.

To answer directly your question, however, yes, the protein powder counts, but I am of the opinion that most protein powder marketers are committing fraud, and you cannot trust what they put on the label.  Usually, it is half to two thirds what they are claiming.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/03/12/lawsuits-say-protein-powders-lack-protein-ripping-off-athletes/#7e703d481039

  As for the flax seeds, by all means, count it.  MyFitnessPal will tell you how much to count it in each category of protein, carbs, and fat, and it will also track your daily totals.  Easy-peasy.

To up your protein, eat eggs (the yolks also have good fats).  Eat meat.  Fish, chicken, steak, hamburger, bison, pork, turkey, that is, real meat.  Not deli meat or processed crap.  Buy it raw and make it yourself. 

What you will find when you start tracking what you are eating with MyFitnessPal is that you are eating lots of carbs.  Most Americans have this as their main dietary category, which is ironic considering how it is not even needed.

Do your workouts, progressively improve, try 50/20/30, and see if you do not notice changes week to week.





Carlin

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2017, 05:14:11 PM »
Carlin,

I may take back what I said.

What I would like you to do is the following.  Sign up for MyFitnessPal.  It takes literally 30 seconds.  It's free.  Enter everything you eat into it.  You make a smoothy?  Fine.  Enter all the ingredients.  It will spit out for you the amount of carbs, sugars, protein, fats, and allow you to adjust them.

You can almost entirely adjust your body fat by adjusting your carbohydrate intake.

Of course, protein and fats are needed (there are essential fats and amino acids that your body cannot manufacture).  There is no need to consume sugars and carbohydrates.  The body just does not need them, especially if you are not doing a grueling 1.5 hour weight training workout or running a marathon (which carbs would help you get through).

To start with, shoot for 50/20/30

That's 50% protein, 20% carbs, 30% fat.

With the workouts you are doing, there is no reason to have your carbohydrates any higher than that, and it will still allow you to eat some of the carbohydrates you have been consuming.

To answer directly your question, however, yes, the protein powder counts, but I am of the opinion that most protein powder marketers are committing fraud, and you cannot trust what they put on the label.  Usually, it is half to two thirds what they are claiming.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/03/12/lawsuits-say-protein-powders-lack-protein-ripping-off-athletes/#7e703d481039

  As for the flax seeds, by all means, count it.  MyFitnessPal will tell you how much to count it in each category of protein, carbs, and fat, and it will also track your daily totals.  Easy-peasy.

To up your protein, eat eggs (the yolks also have good fats).  Eat meat.  Fish, chicken, steak, hamburger, bison, pork, turkey, that is, real meat.  Not deli meat or processed crap.  Buy it raw and make it yourself. 

What you will find when you start tracking what you are eating with MyFitnessPal is that you are eating lots of carbs.  Most Americans have this as their main dietary category, which is ironic considering how it is not even needed.

Do your workouts, progressively improve, try 50/20/30, and see if you do not notice changes week to week.

Thank you, I will give those things a try.  I have used that app before, good idea to start again! 
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn, so let me ask:
I have read that eating lots of meat rather than carbs has a definite short term effect on body composition, but also increases risk of heart disease and the like down the road.  I also try to drastically limit my meat intake for environmental reasons, and lean more towards black beans, broccoli...etc.  In doing this, I know that I do not consume as much protein as I would if I just had a steak or some marinated chicken breast, but It's hard to get over the environmental hangups and some of the things I've read.  What is your opinion on this?  I am an above average cook, and do 90% of our cooking from scratch, so any suggestions you provide I can roll with.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2017, 06:45:53 PM »
Maybe start working with a Physical therapist with the goal of building the basis for more exercise.

AllN4Ton

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2017, 10:35:59 PM »
I might be giving advice opposite a lot of people here, but I think you need to pump the brakes.

I wouldn't make any major changes in your life, tracking macros, doing x sets of x reps @75% of 1rm, downing 3 scoops of metabolic whey 60 at every meal, going vegan/paleo/gluten free, mixing c4 with your BCAAs, daily or before/after workout weigh-ins, that's all great for a certain crowd... but I don't think it's right for you.

I would compare you starting your journey (not sprint, not dash, not your forgotten-by-march-resolution) toward physical well being to my journey in mustachianism. If you don't already go for a walk in the morning, and weather permits, go for a walk. Have your coffee first if you want, maybe a bite of breakfast to take the edge off, but before you start your day, go for a walk. Don't aim for a pace, don't count your steps, don't track it with an app, just walk around your neighborhood. Walk a quarter mile, a whole mile, probably not much more than that at first. Take the time to think about why you are walking around your neighborhood, about all the forces in your life that have brought you to this one moment. I like to use my morning walk as a way to meditate on my actions, examine the path my life is taking, and decide what I can do that day, to make sure my life goes the way I want it to. Don't make any crazy changes until you have done this for a month or so, you will know when it finally becomes a habit better than any of us.

At the same time, or shortly after, start working on your push-ups. Do 5 whenever you think about it, again with the walking, don't keep track, don't monitor every action with an app, just do push-ups when you think about it and have the time. Maybe do a plank before your push-ups, or after, or both. It doesn't matter, just do things with your body, toss in some air squats after you're done, keep your back straight, eyes on the horizon do 5 or 10, whatever is comfortable... comfortable, we will revisit that word. The point isn't necessarily to follow someones 30 or 60 day plan, to follow what the magazine says to get 6 pack abs by summer, it sounds like you just want to be a fitter human being, and that is a marathon, no need to rush.

Before you start doing exercises, do some research on proper form, even as a beginner just using body weight exercises, using proper form is imperative. If you can't continue the exercise with proper form, stop. Do some later instead.

As for the diet aspect, hydration is extremely important, and often overlooked. Every aspect of your body needs water, and when you start exercising more, you are going to make your muscles thirsty. Drink lots of water, but don't drink too much. I don't measure my water intake (usually) but if you don't know where to start, I'm sure some scientists have made a calculator based on your age/gender/weight/etc. There are a lot of diets out there, I personally dont subscribe to any. I do juice (vegetables, think Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead) daily at lunch, but I also eat food at lunch. It is a supplement for me, that's another word we will have to revisit. That is about as extreme as my diet gets, aside from my abstinence of fast food whenever I can help it, which might not be extreme here on these forums, but seems to be in daily American life. I just try to eat healthy things, baked chicken instead of fried chicken, a good balance of proteins and carbs and fruits and vegetables. Someone mentioned smoothies earlier, and how they were bad because they have so much sugar. I would like to respectfully disagree, sometimes I like to take smoothies as a "pre-workout" because they have lots of carbs and sugar, which is a pretty efficient way to give your body energy. But yeah, too much of anything in your diet isn't a good thing, so don't go crazy. Don't give up beer or wine or coffee. Maybe give up or cut down on soda and energy drinks if you currently consume those. I like to have a coke every once in a while, but I'm talking once every couple weeks.

Comfort and supplements. First, you are forging your new body like a blacksmith forges a sword. You aren't painting happy trees with Bob Ross. Eventually, you need to make yourself uncomfortable to see progress. Don't exercise if you are hurt, recovery time wont help you progress, but make yourself uncomfortable when you are exercising. Supplements, please stop taking whatever protein you are taking. There is no need for you to supplement at this point. Supplements are meant to "supplement" your diet, to provide nutrients you can't get through eating normal food in your normal day. Please do me a personal favor and stop taking them at least for now. The one supplement I would ever recommend to a beginner is a BCAA with no caffeine. I prefer AMINOx by BSN, I don't work for them or any supplement store or company, but I like the product. I would ask that you do your own research, and decide what is right for you. Also with everything else, don't let your sole source of information be someone working on commission.

I didn't mean for this to be such a wall of text, but I hope it helps.

Carlin

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2017, 11:29:03 PM »
I might be giving advice opposite a lot of people here, but I think you need to pump the brakes.

I wouldn't make any major changes in your life, tracking macros, doing x sets of x reps @75% of 1rm, downing 3 scoops of metabolic whey 60 at every meal, going vegan/paleo/gluten free, mixing c4 with your BCAAs, daily or before/after workout weigh-ins, that's all great for a certain crowd... but I don't think it's right for you.

I would compare you starting your journey (not sprint, not dash, not your forgotten-by-march-resolution) toward physical well being to my journey in mustachianism. If you don't already go for a walk in the morning, and weather permits, go for a walk. Have your coffee first if you want, maybe a bite of breakfast to take the edge off, but before you start your day, go for a walk. Don't aim for a pace, don't count your steps, don't track it with an app, just walk around your neighborhood. Walk a quarter mile, a whole mile, probably not much more than that at first. Take the time to think about why you are walking around your neighborhood, about all the forces in your life that have brought you to this one moment. I like to use my morning walk as a way to meditate on my actions, examine the path my life is taking, and decide what I can do that day, to make sure my life goes the way I want it to. Don't make any crazy changes until you have done this for a month or so, you will know when it finally becomes a habit better than any of us.

At the same time, or shortly after, start working on your push-ups. Do 5 whenever you think about it, again with the walking, don't keep track, don't monitor every action with an app, just do push-ups when you think about it and have the time. Maybe do a plank before your push-ups, or after, or both. It doesn't matter, just do things with your body, toss in some air squats after you're done, keep your back straight, eyes on the horizon do 5 or 10, whatever is comfortable... comfortable, we will revisit that word. The point isn't necessarily to follow someones 30 or 60 day plan, to follow what the magazine says to get 6 pack abs by summer, it sounds like you just want to be a fitter human being, and that is a marathon, no need to rush.

Before you start doing exercises, do some research on proper form, even as a beginner just using body weight exercises, using proper form is imperative. If you can't continue the exercise with proper form, stop. Do some later instead.

As for the diet aspect, hydration is extremely important, and often overlooked. Every aspect of your body needs water, and when you start exercising more, you are going to make your muscles thirsty. Drink lots of water, but don't drink too much. I don't measure my water intake (usually) but if you don't know where to start, I'm sure some scientists have made a calculator based on your age/gender/weight/etc. There are a lot of diets out there, I personally dont subscribe to any. I do juice (vegetables, think Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead) daily at lunch, but I also eat food at lunch. It is a supplement for me, that's another word we will have to revisit. That is about as extreme as my diet gets, aside from my abstinence of fast food whenever I can help it, which might not be extreme here on these forums, but seems to be in daily American life. I just try to eat healthy things, baked chicken instead of fried chicken, a good balance of proteins and carbs and fruits and vegetables. Someone mentioned smoothies earlier, and how they were bad because they have so much sugar. I would like to respectfully disagree, sometimes I like to take smoothies as a "pre-workout" because they have lots of carbs and sugar, which is a pretty efficient way to give your body energy. But yeah, too much of anything in your diet isn't a good thing, so don't go crazy. Don't give up beer or wine or coffee. Maybe give up or cut down on soda and energy drinks if you currently consume those. I like to have a coke every once in a while, but I'm talking once every couple weeks.

Comfort and supplements. First, you are forging your new body like a blacksmith forges a sword. You aren't painting happy trees with Bob Ross. Eventually, you need to make yourself uncomfortable to see progress. Don't exercise if you are hurt, recovery time wont help you progress, but make yourself uncomfortable when you are exercising. Supplements, please stop taking whatever protein you are taking. There is no need for you to supplement at this point. Supplements are meant to "supplement" your diet, to provide nutrients you can't get through eating normal food in your normal day. Please do me a personal favor and stop taking them at least for now. The one supplement I would ever recommend to a beginner is a BCAA with no caffeine. I prefer AMINOx by BSN, I don't work for them or any supplement store or company, but I like the product. I would ask that you do your own research, and decide what is right for you. Also with everything else, don't let your sole source of information be someone working on commission.

I didn't mean for this to be such a wall of text, but I hope it helps.

Thank you for the advice! I like your "slow and steady" approach. I will definitely implement it.  I am starting to see changes.  I think impatience may be part of my problem :)

Laura33

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2017, 08:18:49 AM »
Carlin,

I may take back what I said.

What I would like you to do is the following.  Sign up for MyFitnessPal.  It takes literally 30 seconds.  It's free.  Enter everything you eat into it.  You make a smoothy?  Fine.  Enter all the ingredients.  It will spit out for you the amount of carbs, sugars, protein, fats, and allow you to adjust them.

You can almost entirely adjust your body fat by adjusting your carbohydrate intake.

Of course, protein and fats are needed (there are essential fats and amino acids that your body cannot manufacture).  There is no need to consume sugars and carbohydrates.  The body just does not need them, especially if you are not doing a grueling 1.5 hour weight training workout or running a marathon (which carbs would help you get through).

To start with, shoot for 50/20/30

That's 50% protein, 20% carbs, 30% fat.

With the workouts you are doing, there is no reason to have your carbohydrates any higher than that, and it will still allow you to eat some of the carbohydrates you have been consuming.

To answer directly your question, however, yes, the protein powder counts, but I am of the opinion that most protein powder marketers are committing fraud, and you cannot trust what they put on the label.  Usually, it is half to two thirds what they are claiming.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/03/12/lawsuits-say-protein-powders-lack-protein-ripping-off-athletes/#7e703d481039

  As for the flax seeds, by all means, count it.  MyFitnessPal will tell you how much to count it in each category of protein, carbs, and fat, and it will also track your daily totals.  Easy-peasy.

To up your protein, eat eggs (the yolks also have good fats).  Eat meat.  Fish, chicken, steak, hamburger, bison, pork, turkey, that is, real meat.  Not deli meat or processed crap.  Buy it raw and make it yourself. 

What you will find when you start tracking what you are eating with MyFitnessPal is that you are eating lots of carbs.  Most Americans have this as their main dietary category, which is ironic considering how it is not even needed.

Do your workouts, progressively improve, try 50/20/30, and see if you do not notice changes week to week.

Thank you, I will give those things a try.  I have used that app before, good idea to start again! 
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn, so let me ask:
I have read that eating lots of meat rather than carbs has a definite short term effect on body composition, but also increases risk of heart disease and the like down the road.  I also try to drastically limit my meat intake for environmental reasons, and lean more towards black beans, broccoli...etc.  In doing this, I know that I do not consume as much protein as I would if I just had a steak or some marinated chicken breast, but It's hard to get over the environmental hangups and some of the things I've read.  What is your opinion on this?  I am an above average cook, and do 90% of our cooking from scratch, so any suggestions you provide I can roll with.

I can't say for sure about the meat (although I don't think there is research on meat in the context of the kind of diet recommended here).  But I agree that you seem very, very short on protein, which means you are asking your body to build muscles without the building blocks to do so.  I also don't like the idea of relying on supplements for such a major component of your diet.  What about nuts, dairy, eggs?  If you can add a handful of nuts or a boiled egg in the morning to go with your smoothie, that will help get you off on the right foot for the day.  You don't have to go full steak to get more protein and fat into your diet.

Also, one of the things it may help to do more research on is food combinations -- for ex, IIRC, acid helps with iron absorption but hurts calcium (I did know this at one point when I was anemic but have forgotten since then).  I have also heard that beans + dairy provides a more complete protein than just one or the other at a time.  Etc. 

GuitarStv

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2017, 09:02:31 AM »
Carlin,

I may take back what I said.

What I would like you to do is the following.  Sign up for MyFitnessPal.  It takes literally 30 seconds.  It's free.  Enter everything you eat into it.  You make a smoothy?  Fine.  Enter all the ingredients.  It will spit out for you the amount of carbs, sugars, protein, fats, and allow you to adjust them.

You can almost entirely adjust your body fat by adjusting your carbohydrate intake.

Of course, protein and fats are needed (there are essential fats and amino acids that your body cannot manufacture).  There is no need to consume sugars and carbohydrates.  The body just does not need them, especially if you are not doing a grueling 1.5 hour weight training workout or running a marathon (which carbs would help you get through).

To start with, shoot for 50/20/30

That's 50% protein, 20% carbs, 30% fat.

With the workouts you are doing, there is no reason to have your carbohydrates any higher than that, and it will still allow you to eat some of the carbohydrates you have been consuming.

To answer directly your question, however, yes, the protein powder counts, but I am of the opinion that most protein powder marketers are committing fraud, and you cannot trust what they put on the label.  Usually, it is half to two thirds what they are claiming.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexmorrell/2015/03/12/lawsuits-say-protein-powders-lack-protein-ripping-off-athletes/#7e703d481039

  As for the flax seeds, by all means, count it.  MyFitnessPal will tell you how much to count it in each category of protein, carbs, and fat, and it will also track your daily totals.  Easy-peasy.

To up your protein, eat eggs (the yolks also have good fats).  Eat meat.  Fish, chicken, steak, hamburger, bison, pork, turkey, that is, real meat.  Not deli meat or processed crap.  Buy it raw and make it yourself. 

What you will find when you start tracking what you are eating with MyFitnessPal is that you are eating lots of carbs.  Most Americans have this as their main dietary category, which is ironic considering how it is not even needed.

Do your workouts, progressively improve, try 50/20/30, and see if you do not notice changes week to week.

Single data point here . . .

I was able to gain 40 lbs over a three year period by religiously lifting weights, and keeping to a 30/40/30.  My waist measurements stayed the same as when I started.  I've been able to maintain the weight and strength while slowly modifying my diet closer to a heavily vegetarian 15/50/35 (full disclosure, my weight dropped by 10 lbs and my max strength dropped on all lifts . . . But I also modified my exercise routine to include 200+ km a week on a bike and reduced frequency of weight lifting to accommodate that.)

50% of your caloric intake through protein seems a bit excessive from where I'm sitting.  Every vegetable, bean/legume, and fruit that you eat is a carb . . . They're very healthy for you.  If you take issue with refined sugars and processed starchy foods, that's sensible . . . But no need to besmirch all carbs.  That would be like someone saying that Bologna is processed meat which is bad for you, therefore all protein is bad for you.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2017, 11:19:56 AM »
GuitarStv,

Please read her posts.  Then compare it to your lifestyle.  The carbs are not going to do her ANY good whatsoever for her goals right now.  She is not going to be riding 200 km weekly in addition to heavy weight training.  She also does not have a man's testosterone levels.

I eat carbs, oats, rice, potatoes, but it is to fuel workouts.  That is completely different from her eating carbs (and my proposed diet does not cut out carbs entirely).

My proposal was for her.  I would not have given you the exact same recommendation based on what you do each week.  The fact that your higher carb diet worked for you does not mean it would work for her, since you two have almost nothing in common.

BigHaus89

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2017, 11:30:46 AM »
Your poor diet was the thing that stuck out to me the most. The fact that you are so sore for so long after a workout says you likely are not getting enough protein and fat. Eat eggs for breakfast, fish and veggies for lunch, mixed nuts for a snack and a balanced meal for dinner(chicken breast,steammed veggies with olive oil and a sweet potato or something similar)

Others have given good advice on workout progression. Figure out what you can and can't do with your back issue, and work hard to progress in what you can do. Yoga and bodyweight exercises like you mentioned would be an excellent start.

GuitarStv

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #78 on: January 18, 2017, 12:11:38 PM »
GuitarStv,

Please read her posts.  Then compare it to your lifestyle.  The carbs are not going to do her ANY good whatsoever for her goals right now.  She is not going to be riding 200 km weekly in addition to heavy weight training.  She also does not have a man's testosterone levels.

I eat carbs, oats, rice, potatoes, but it is to fuel workouts.  That is completely different from her eating carbs (and my proposed diet does not cut out carbs entirely).

My proposal was for her.  I would not have given you the exact same recommendation based on what you do each week.  The fact that your higher carb diet worked for you does not mean it would work for her, since you two have almost nothing in common.

Granted, we're quite different people.

Your recommendation that 50% of her calories each day come from protein though seems rather high, regardless of activity level.  That quantity of protein just isn't necessary even when doing heavy weight training.  A diet rich in carbs (vegetables, beans, fruit) is good for you.  It's high in fiber, high in anti-oxidants, and high in vitamins . . . replacing large quantities of that with protein is not a benefit.

If you want to argue that fewer calories of white bread, white rice, white potatoes, white sugar should be consumed . . . have at it.  Those are bad carbs.  There are also quite a few bad meat products that should be avoided (processed meats of any kind, red meat, etc.) . . . that doesn't mean that all protein is bad for you.

Carlin

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #79 on: January 18, 2017, 06:08:25 PM »
GuitarStv,

Please read her posts.  Then compare it to your lifestyle.  The carbs are not going to do her ANY good whatsoever for her goals right now.  She is not going to be riding 200 km weekly in addition to heavy weight training.  She also does not have a man's testosterone levels.

I eat carbs, oats, rice, potatoes, but it is to fuel workouts.  That is completely different from her eating carbs (and my proposed diet does not cut out carbs entirely).

My proposal was for her.  I would not have given you the exact same recommendation based on what you do each week.  The fact that your higher carb diet worked for you does not mean it would work for her, since you two have almost nothing in common.

Granted, we're quite different people.

Your recommendation that 50% of her calories each day come from protein though seems rather high, regardless of activity level.  That quantity of protein just isn't necessary even when doing heavy weight training.  A diet rich in carbs (vegetables, beans, fruit) is good for you.  It's high in fiber, high in anti-oxidants, and high in vitamins . . . replacing large quantities of that with protein is not a benefit.

If you want to argue that fewer calories of white bread, white rice, white potatoes, white sugar should be consumed . . . have at it.  Those are bad carbs.  There are also quite a few bad meat products that should be avoided (processed meats of any kind, red meat, etc.) . . . that doesn't mean that all protein is bad for you.

All of these conflicting messages are what have me so confused. I try very hard to stick to a whole foods diet as much as I can.  Our diet consists mainly of veggies, fruits, beans, potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and some chicken, fish, and beef.  I do consume more dairy than I would like.  I know that I do need to cut back on my carbs for sure.  I do have a problem there.  I also need to make time to fit more regular exercise in.  I know that will help, because I spent a good deal of time walking, biking, hiking, and swimming last summer and I leaned out to about 115 lbs with zero actual "workouts" involved.  Then, in the process of moving and finishing my degree between August and December I managed to gain about 15 lbs back. 

Rewdoalb

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #80 on: January 18, 2017, 08:40:34 PM »
Good luck with everything!

Start slow, like others have said.  As your strength work ramps up, please keep the following principle in mind:  muscle weighs more than fat.  If you end up the same size in 1 year but gain strength and muscle tone / tightness / whatever you want to call it... you will weigh noticeably more!  So please be careful you aren't starving your body of the nutrients it needs to gain muscle.  And don't freak out if your weight goes up 10 or 15 pounds.

I too eat mostly mean-free but am trying to gain weight and muscle.  Protein powder w whole milk, peanut butter (sandwiches, in your smoothie, and spread it onto apples and bananas whenever you eat fruit), avocados, nuts, canned tuna, and eggs are all reasonably cheap ways to get protein and fat without buying red meat.  Oatmeal is cheap fuel too.

The Happy Philosopher

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #81 on: January 18, 2017, 10:34:01 PM »
GuitarStv,

Please read her posts.  Then compare it to your lifestyle.  The carbs are not going to do her ANY good whatsoever for her goals right now.  She is not going to be riding 200 km weekly in addition to heavy weight training.  She also does not have a man's testosterone levels.

I eat carbs, oats, rice, potatoes, but it is to fuel workouts.  That is completely different from her eating carbs (and my proposed diet does not cut out carbs entirely).

My proposal was for her.  I would not have given you the exact same recommendation based on what you do each week.  The fact that your higher carb diet worked for you does not mean it would work for her, since you two have almost nothing in common.

Granted, we're quite different people.

Your recommendation that 50% of her calories each day come from protein though seems rather high, regardless of activity level.  That quantity of protein just isn't necessary even when doing heavy weight training.  A diet rich in carbs (vegetables, beans, fruit) is good for you.  It's high in fiber, high in anti-oxidants, and high in vitamins . . . replacing large quantities of that with protein is not a benefit.

If you want to argue that fewer calories of white bread, white rice, white potatoes, white sugar should be consumed . . . have at it.  Those are bad carbs.  There are also quite a few bad meat products that should be avoided (processed meats of any kind, red meat, etc.) . . . that doesn't mean that all protein is bad for you.

All of these conflicting messages are what have me so confused. I try very hard to stick to a whole foods diet as much as I can.  Our diet consists mainly of veggies, fruits, beans, potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and some chicken, fish, and beef.  I do consume more dairy than I would like.  I know that I do need to cut back on my carbs for sure.  I do have a problem there.  I also need to make time to fit more regular exercise in.  I know that will help, because I spent a good deal of time walking, biking, hiking, and swimming last summer and I leaned out to about 115 lbs with zero actual "workouts" involved.  Then, in the process of moving and finishing my degree between August and December I managed to gain about 15 lbs back.

50% protein is probably too much. You body just doesn't need that much. Getting rid of low quality carbs and adding high quality fats should be your goal, not adding more protein. It probably wont hurt you, but it is usually an expensive way to eat. Most people make the mistake of eating too little fat. Fat is calorie dense, necessary for absorption of fat soluble vitamins and is overall awesome. Check out slow carb diet, it is simple, easy and from what I read, effective. At the end of the day you have to eat what makes your body feel the best. We are all different and will find different optimal diets.

NeonPegasus

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #82 on: January 19, 2017, 09:28:08 AM »
All of these conflicting messages are what have me so confused. I try very hard to stick to a whole foods diet as much as I can.  Our diet consists mainly of veggies, fruits, beans, potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and some chicken, fish, and beef.  I do consume more dairy than I would like.  I know that I do need to cut back on my carbs for sure.  I do have a problem there.  I also need to make time to fit more regular exercise in.  I know that will help, because I spent a good deal of time walking, biking, hiking, and swimming last summer and I leaned out to about 115 lbs with zero actual "workouts" involved.  Then, in the process of moving and finishing my degree between August and December I managed to gain about 15 lbs back.

Maybe this will help. Your diet is a circle. That circle represents the total number of calories you should eat based on your goals.

The main divisions in that circle are between your macronutrients - protein, carbs and fats. You want to work on the ratio of those macros before moving on. I agree with a previous poster that 50% protein is unnecessarily high. My muscle building/weight loss diet calls for 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% fat. I think a good place to start for you would be 30% protein, 30% fat and 40% carbs. Try that for a week or so and see how you feel. You may find it challenging to hit even 30% protein. In the end, you should feel more satiated and less fatigued after working out, though you may feel a bit foggy for the first few days. I sure did. It seems to be related to decreasing carbs. Yes, your body can build muscle with mostly carbs but protein also takes longer to digest so it leaves you fuller and less subject to blood sugar swings, which helps if you're simultaneously trying to shed some fat.

Once you have got your macros down, you work on each pie wedge. Your carbs should be full of whole grains, like it looks like you're already doing. Your fats should come from high quality sources like olive oil, nuts and legumes. Your protein should be likewise high quality - lean meat or eggs or dairy rather than bologna or something.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 10:31:08 AM by VBACmama »

Inaya

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #83 on: January 19, 2017, 09:36:21 AM »
All of these conflicting messages are what have me so confused. I try very hard to stick to a whole foods diet as much as I can.  Our diet consists mainly of veggies, fruits, beans, potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and some chicken, fish, and beef.  I do consume more dairy than I would like.  I know that I do need to cut back on my carbs for sure.  I do have a problem there.  I also need to make time to fit more regular exercise in.  I know that will help, because I spent a good deal of time walking, biking, hiking, and swimming last summer and I leaned out to about 115 lbs with zero actual "workouts" involved.  Then, in the process of moving and finishing my degree between August and December I managed to gain about 15 lbs back.

Maybe this will help. Your diet is a circle. That circle represents the total number of calories you should eat based on your goals.

The main divisions in that circle are between your macronutrients - protein, carbs and fats. You want to work on the ratio of those macros before moving on. I agree with a previous poster that 50% protein is unnecessarily high. My muscle building/weight loss diet calls for 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% fat. I think a good place to start for you would be 30% protein, 30% fat and 40% carbs. Try that for a week or so and see how you feel. You may find it challenging to hit even 30% protein. In the end, you should feel more satiated and less fatigued after working out, though you may feel a bit foggy for the first few days. I sure did. It seems to be related to decreasing carbs. Yes, your body can build muscle with mostly carbs but protein also takes longer to digest so it leaves you fuller and less subject to blood sugar swings, which helps if your simultaneously trying to shed some fat.

Once you have got your macros down, you work on each pie wedge. Your carbs should be full of whole grains, like it looks like you're already doing. Your fats should come from high quality sources like olive oil, nuts and legumes. Your protein should be likewise high quality - lean meat or eggs or dairy rather than bologna or something.


If this approach interests you, here is a calculator that can help you figure out how big your "pie wedges" should be: https://www.iifym.com/iifym-calculator/

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #84 on: January 19, 2017, 01:15:16 PM »
All of these conflicting messages are what have me so confused.
  Sorry if I added to your confusion, since my approach is so different from the others.  My recommendation is based upon what I saw you post and your stated goal.  I am sure the others mean well.  Ask to see their shirtless pics to see if they know what they are talking about and how the approach has worked for them in making a transformation like you would like to see in yourself (only half kidding).

The main thing at this point is to DO SOMETHING.  No need to wait.  Pick one of the approaches and try it.  The approach does not have to be mine.  If you stop seeing progress in the direction you want to go after a few weeks, then look to make some tweaks to your approach.  Track your diet on MyFitnessPal, since it is hard to make tweaks if you do not know what you are eating, just like it is hard to adjust your finances if you do not know what you are spending.

Any change at this point would be good.  If you do not like where you are, then you have to change what you are doing.

Have you started exercising?  If so, how is that going?  The key to exercise is to make progress.  Progress forces adaptation, and your body will start to look different.

Carlin

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #85 on: January 19, 2017, 01:29:51 PM »
All of these conflicting messages are what have me so confused.
  Sorry if I added to your confusion, since my approach is so different from the others.  My recommendation is based upon what I saw you post and your stated goal.  I am sure the others mean well.  Ask to see their shirtless pics to see if they know what they are talking about and how the approach has worked for them in making a transformation like you would like to see in yourself (only half kidding).

The main thing at this point is to DO SOMETHING.  No need to wait.  Pick one of the approaches and try it.  The approach does not have to be mine.  If you stop seeing progress in the direction you want to go after a few weeks, then look to make some tweaks to your approach.  Track your diet on MyFitnessPal, since it is hard to make tweaks if you do not know what you are eating, just like it is hard to adjust your finances if you do not know what you are spending.

Any change at this point would be good.  If you do not like where you are, then you have to change what you are doing.

Have you started exercising?  If so, how is that going?  The key to exercise is to make progress.  Progress forces adaptation, and your body will start to look different.

I have started exercising.  I have been faithfully doing 3 resistance (Leg day, arms/back, and core), and 2 cardio workouts per week, plus yoga several times per week and the occasional swimming.  I have seen improvement in what I can do as I've made my way up past 20 half pushups, and I can now walk/jog a mile rather than walk/stop a mile.  Despite these improvements, I see absolutely zero changes in my body yet though, but I think I may be on the right track!

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #86 on: January 19, 2017, 01:32:17 PM »
Great news!  Keep at it, and keep improving.  If you are seeing improvements, for example, in your ability to do the mile without stopping and some running when you could not before, then you are definitely on the right track.

GuitarStv

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #87 on: January 19, 2017, 01:45:43 PM »
If you can, log your changes in performance.  It can be pretty incredible when you look back at the changes you've seen after two or three years worth of training.  When you start exercising progress comes quickly and is easy to see . . . as you develop more strength and endurance it becomes more and more important to track things because progress gets to slow to see on a day to day or even weekly basis.

NeonPegasus

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #88 on: January 19, 2017, 04:54:12 PM »
If you can, log your changes in performance.  It can be pretty incredible when you look back at the changes you've seen after two or three years worth of training.  When you start exercising progress comes quickly and is easy to see . . . as you develop more strength and endurance it becomes more and more important to track things because progress gets to slow to see on a day to day or even weekly basis.

Yes, track your performance and track your body measurements. It will take about 6 weeks to really start seeing changes. You will notice improvements in your performance before improvements in measurements and appearance. This is a long-term game.

galliver

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #89 on: January 20, 2017, 03:14:43 PM »
All of these conflicting messages are what have me so confused. I try very hard to stick to a whole foods diet as much as I can.  Our diet consists mainly of veggies, fruits, beans, potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and some chicken, fish, and beef.  I do consume more dairy than I would like.  I know that I do need to cut back on my carbs for sure.  I do have a problem there.  I also need to make time to fit more regular exercise in.  I know that will help, because I spent a good deal of time walking, biking, hiking, and swimming last summer and I leaned out to about 115 lbs with zero actual "workouts" involved.  Then, in the process of moving and finishing my degree between August and December I managed to gain about 15 lbs back.

I'll probably offend someone above with this, but...diets are a religion these days. Devout followers of Holy Texts and Holy Men (and Women) will proselytize at length about why their Truth is greater than all other Truths and you should convert to their method. I've tried looking for the hard science (thanks grad school for journal access) and frankly you can find things that support and that contradict most diet movements out there. Also a lot of health/nutrition studies suffer from questionable science: small sample sizes and positive-results publication bias (basically, if 100 scientists run studies about whether chocolate affects cancer rates/heart disease/obesity, the 5 that find a correlation are more likely to publish their results...or for the results to get published, it might be a journal problem...than the 95 that find no relationship...and then the media picks it up and turns "chocolate *might* affect heart disease chance by .1% based on preliminary results" into "chocolate prevents cancer, eat all the chocolate!") Anyway that's why it's confusing, IMO.

wenchsenior

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #90 on: January 20, 2017, 05:47:00 PM »
All of these conflicting messages are what have me so confused. I try very hard to stick to a whole foods diet as much as I can.  Our diet consists mainly of veggies, fruits, beans, potatoes, brown rice, whole wheat pasta, and some chicken, fish, and beef.  I do consume more dairy than I would like.  I know that I do need to cut back on my carbs for sure.  I do have a problem there.  I also need to make time to fit more regular exercise in.  I know that will help, because I spent a good deal of time walking, biking, hiking, and swimming last summer and I leaned out to about 115 lbs with zero actual "workouts" involved.  Then, in the process of moving and finishing my degree between August and December I managed to gain about 15 lbs back.

I'll probably offend someone above with this, but...diets are a religion these days. Devout followers of Holy Texts and Holy Men (and Women) will proselytize at length about why their Truth is greater than all other Truths and you should convert to their method. I've tried looking for the hard science (thanks grad school for journal access) and frankly you can find things that support and that contradict most diet movements out there. Also a lot of health/nutrition studies suffer from questionable science: small sample sizes and positive-results publication bias (basically, if 100 scientists run studies about whether chocolate affects cancer rates/heart disease/obesity, the 5 that find a correlation are more likely to publish their results...or for the results to get published, it might be a journal problem...than the 95 that find no relationship...and then the media picks it up and turns "chocolate *might* affect heart disease chance by .1% based on preliminary results" into "chocolate prevents cancer, eat all the chocolate!") Anyway that's why it's confusing, IMO.

So true.

Plus, everyone's body functions a bit differently. I feel better in some ways (more energy)  if I eat more 'paleo' and cut carbs way down, but then I cannot keep weight on no matter how many calories from fat I add. I mean, for a while I was glopping olive oil and coconut oil etc on all my food, and STILL lost weight.  And if I do aerobic type exercise on that type of diet, I will fall below 100 lbs like THAT.  And weirdly, this occurs while my digestion slows to a crawl.  Conversely, if I eat a lot of carbs, I can put on some weight and my digestion and appetite rev up a little bit, but then I feel like crap because of blood sugar swings UNLESS I am doing really consistent hard aerobic exercise.  It's weird, but my body processes sugar/starch differently from protein/fat calories. 

Basically, if you stop drinking sugar, eliminate or cut down processed food, and avoid extremely fatty red meats, you're likely going to be doing better than 90% of Americans. Aim for that, and then tweak a bit to see what your body likes.

waltworks

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2017, 06:18:06 PM »
Find an exercise class of some kind that has the right vibe for you. My wife and I attend a "power hour" class where you can bring your small children along - which means total chaos but lots of fun, but it also means that it's mostly a similar group (parents, people tolerant of small children) who have similar life situations and are supportive/great at encouraging each other.

To be fair, this class is like 95% female and I get laughed at a lot during the stretching/core workout/balance stuff where I fall off the bosu ball, or whatever, but the point is that if you find the right group, you'll be more likely to A) push yourself to improve and B) make friends/feel welcome/not be judged for whatever challenges you have.

Bottom line: comradery gets results. And more friends!

-W

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2017, 06:23:16 PM »
It's weird, but my body processes sugar/starch differently from protein/fat calories. 
  There is nothing weird about that.  Everybody's body operates this way.

wenchsenior

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #93 on: January 24, 2017, 10:57:40 AM »
It's weird, but my body processes sugar/starch differently from protein/fat calories. 
  There is nothing weird about that.  Everybody's body operates this way.

Possibly, but we're getting the 'a calorie is a calorie is a calorie' crowd perspective over on this thread

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/1200-calorie-meal-plan/

so it certainly isn't an idea that everyone is receptive to.

Malum Prohibitum

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2017, 12:14:21 PM »
It's weird, but my body processes sugar/starch differently from protein/fat calories. 
  There is nothing weird about that.  Everybody's body operates this way.

Possibly, but we're getting the 'a calorie is a calorie is a calorie' crowd perspective over on this thread

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/1200-calorie-meal-plan/

so it certainly isn't an idea that everyone is receptive to.
  Ignorance is pervasive.  I am assuming none of these people has heard of insulin or knows what it does in the body beyond something about "it regulates blood sugar levels,"  LOL!

begood

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Re: Skinny Fat, Coddled, and Weak
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2017, 02:19:50 PM »
Carlin, drinking coffee and green tea all day long might be making you thirsty:

Caffeine & Thirst

Caffeine is a diuretic. It causes fluid to pass through your body more quickly than usual.