Author Topic: Boat?  (Read 12802 times)

CDP45

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Boat?
« on: March 24, 2014, 10:23:02 PM »
Hello,

I've have been punched in the face and have returned the favor to others over the years, but for some reason I can't get the idea of a boat out of my head. Wakeboarding and intertubing is so much fun, being out in the sun with friends and family when I was growing up is still vivid to me today, and I'd like to start that up again now that I'm an adult and dad moved away.

But, it doesn't seem to square with financial rationality-its just a pleasure toy. I tried to find articles and threads but only found one about a canadian guy in debt who seemed really crazy. My books look good, heading towards FI within 10 years (if wife keeps working...) It just doesn't seem like a boat would derail that by much, and we only have so many trips around the sun...right??

And rules like dave ramseys 50% of annual income? I can feel the wind in my hair...and see myself beating the salmon with a bat...

dragoncar

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2014, 10:26:02 PM »
It doesn't have to be a terrible idea if you truly love it.  Can you spread the cost over more people than normal (large extended family that can share?).  I feel like boats are particularly unmustachian when they just sit there unused.

edit: obligatory

The_Dude

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2014, 10:41:47 PM »
Boats are expensive. You can lower your costs but they are still high.

If you love Wakeboarding then I recommend using the find a third forum on wakeworld.com Some of the friends (that don't own a boat) I made that way ride more often than i do and I own a boat. Usually you throw down $20-30 depending on how long you ride.

I searched hard for my boat and found an older model that wasn't well cared for and paid 25-50% less than the other cheaper wake boats I saw at the time and it still has cost me a hell of a lot more than $20-30 bucks each time I went riding.

Boat sayings...

Bust Out Another Thousand
Two happiest days in a boat owner's life is the day they buy the boat and the day they sell it.
A boat is a hole in the water surrounded by wood (or fiberglass) into which one pours money.

I don't regret owning my boat but it has been an expensive hobby :)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 10:50:10 PM by The_Dude »

yyc-phil

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2014, 10:46:48 PM »
It doesn't have to be a terrible idea if you truly love it.  Can you spread the cost over more people than normal (large extended family that can share?).  I feel like boats are particularly unmustachian when they just sit there unused.

edit: obligatory


Looks like Bjork is out again drinking...


Cwadda

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2014, 10:47:17 PM »
Buying a boat is somewhat of a money sink, but if it's something you enjoy and like as a hobby, you should do it. Doesn't even have to be expensive. For example, my dad's side of the family grew up with fishing and I grew up with it. It's one of the most enjoyable family activities and we continue to fish together as a family. I have to say it gives us a connection that is otherwise unattainable. My dad has a small, 25 HP motorboat that we use for many different lakes and it's well over ten years old. Costs about $25 for a full tank of gas that lasts for a while. If it aids you in finding true, quality happiness, you shouldn't worry about dropping the money for it, because happiness is priceless. Especially since you are living Mustachially and have saved yourself from a great deal of other consumerist items.

Quote
being out in the sun with friends and family when I was growing up is still vivid to me today, and I'd like to start that up again now that I'm an adult and dad moved away.
It sounds like you are looking to get a boat for the right reasons.

Buying a $40K 300 HP enormous boat and paying hundreds to rent a dock and buy gas = Anti-Mustachian
Buying a $5K small boat that accommodates the family and inexpensive hobbies = Mustachian
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 10:48:54 PM by Cwadda »

CDP45

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2014, 11:07:23 PM »
Wow these are some really soft punches, more like a nice massage justifying an extravagent purchase!

Additional detail: yes I do have a lot of family and friends in my city that would be thrilled if I got a boat. I live very close to a boat ramp, have a covered concrete pad attached to my garage to park it, and would never take it in salt water. I'm thinking of an 18ft, 6-7 people max aluminum with a 115-150hp outboard. Being in the PAC northwest isn't great weather for fiberglass, nor are the shallow rivers and I'm fine heading out in rainy+windy+cold, I grew up in it. 

So what about the finances, I feel $25k is the price to pay to play for something big enough and realiable to take on whitecaps. Like a new kingfisher 18 is about that price, but I also don't want o drop that amount in cash. I could finance at 4% for 5 years at about $200/mo, and recently by switching to ting I saved $100/mo and just got a $15k raise. Monthly my wife and I spend about $4500 including house payment. we max our 401ks and roths. Obviously here at MMM most of us can afford anything we want, but should we? They were ripping apart this Canuck for owning a $12k boat..

Cwadda

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2014, 11:15:43 PM »
Quote
Additional detail: yes I do have a lot of family and friends in my city that would be thrilled if I got a boat.
Would they be thrilled at the fact that you're getting an 18 ft 150 hp boat or thrilled at the fact that you're getting a boat in general?

-Does it need to sit 6-7 people?
-Does it need to be new? New boats are kind of like new cars, they depreciate almost instantly!
-Have you done research on boats that handle in rougher waters? My dad's 25 hp boat takes big swells and whitecaps beautifully.
-Where do you plan on storing it/winterizing it?

If you're not in any hurry, you should be able to save on all of these aspects with careful planning.

Quote
more like a nice massage justifying an extravagent purchase!
I would give up any amount of money to feel the happiness I have with my family due to fishing.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 11:18:03 PM by Cwadda »

2527

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 03:36:32 AM »
I bought a small used sailboat, sailed it for three years and sold it for more than I paid for it.  If you really want a boat, you may be able to get one in modest size and price and scratch your itch.  When you're not interested in it anymore, sell it and move on to something else.

LynnM

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 05:20:10 AM »
New to these forums so my advice level is more of a mustachian-in-training, but we loved boating and thought we did it at the value level.  We purchased a 20' bow rider used -- you'll find lots of people buy new then barely use them, so we got a great deal used through private sale, came with the trailer (had trailer space at home, so no storage fees, like you).   Yes, gas is an expense, but not so bad for a smaller boat.  We used the cheaper or free boat ramps by the house a lot, took it to waterfront campsites for vacations (boat tied to a tree right in front of our tent) with the kids and the dog, family, friends, waking up, jumping in the boat, on the water all day waterskiing, tubing, floating around in life jackets, (all equipment bought used, a lot came with the boat), campground at night around the fire.  Rockfish season in the winter (our daughter still loves fishing).  Sundays out floating reading the newspaper and a thermos full of bloody marys.  We got a lot of use out of it for many years, then sold it for almost half of what we initially paid for it when the kids went to college, so got back most of the maintenance costs. (also had a friend who repaired boats, so saved there as well).   We plan on a boat being a major factor in our retirement, so will enjoy reading other's advice, help me plan more for the future.   

SnackDog

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 05:51:44 AM »
Find friends with a boat and offer to pay 100% of the their beer and gas costs every time you go out. They will love it and you will come out miles ahead financially.

jhartt3

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 06:01:28 AM »
alright i'm an exception here.  I own a boat.  I own a real wake boat. A malibu VLX.  If you want to wakeboard.  dont get an outboard. to me that is a 100% waste of your money.  and Outboard and I/Os DO NOT hold their value they depreciate faster than you can buy them.  Inboard boats on the other hand hold their value exceptionally well.  I paid 14.5k for my VLX (yes this was a steal)  The boat can be resold for 25k right now. 

25k for an 18ft aluminum outboard.  YOU ARE CRAZY.  THAT IS A WASTE OF MONEY. 

Mustachian way to be a boater.  Buy used.  Buy old.  have an affordable way to use it ie dont trailer it.  take people out wakeboarding and make a little cash.  get a good deal on what you buy.  25k buys a very very nice wakeboard boat.  that will hold up to 11 but really 6-8 comfortably.  your 18ft boat would hold 4 comfortably.  DO all the maintenance yourself it is not that hard. 

You can own a boat and be mustachian you just have to work it into your budget and build your life to accomodate it accordingly.  I pay 250/ year for my slip on my lake. i live in the most affordable lake community in my city.  my boat costs less than most peoples vacations do every year and i get alot of joy out of it.  I can be wakeboarding in 25 minutes from when i leave my desk.  if you cant use it 2x a week during the season you probably shouldnt own one. 

nereo

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 06:10:32 AM »
Find friends with a boat and offer to pay 100% of the their beer and gas costs every time you go out. They will love it and you will come out miles ahead financially.
oooohhh.... I've seen this line of thinking too many times, and it rarely comes to fruition.  Boats (can) have a high upfront cost when you purchase it, and they have a lot of ownership costs.  Just like a car they need to be permitted and insured, and outboard engines need servicing more frequently than cars do - typically every 100 running hours.  Signaling devices expire and need to be replaced every couple of years, and the very nature of water, vibration and the constant slapping of the hull on waves means things wear out, crack, rust or come loose.  If you are vigilant with spotting and fixing problems you can (usually) avoid big expenses, but it costs a lot more than free fuel and some beer to recoup your costs.

I'll add I'm not saying you shouldn't do it (IF you can afford the expense).  Do what makes you happy.  But take it from someone who works on boats - there are always expenses to plan for, beyond the initial purchase, fuel and oil.  If you are comfortable learning how to change the oil in the lower unit, lube up all grease points and check the boat from stem to stern you can (probably) limit your non-fuel expenses to a few hundred $ per year for a small ~18ft runabout.  But with neglect comes biiiiiiig bills from the boat mechanic.

I love boats.  I've just seen them be financial holes for far too many people who weren't prepared for it.

jhartt3

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 06:12:27 AM »
Just saw your finance thing.  DONT FINANCE a toy.  just my Opinion.  I understand its 4% ... but if i were you save up to buy it then when you have that money see if you feel comfortable dropping the 25k you think you need to spend on the boat. 

johnintaiwan

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2014, 06:29:27 AM »
My family had a boat growing up and it was great. It was not an expensive wakeboard/skiing boat, but it worked just fine for that. We had a "crestliner" if I remember it correctly. Im not sure how big it was, but it was an aluminum outboard. We lived near the willamette river and stored it in the garage. We also took it our in the ocean to do crabbing as well. If you are a serious wakeboarder/skiier dont go this route. But if you just wanna take the family and some friends out on the river to play around, it will be able to tow you in whatever manner you want. It was also great for fishing. You cant really do much fishing in a "real" wakeboard boat. Just my 2 cents.

jhartt3

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2014, 06:37:35 AM »
"expensive" wakeboard boat doesnt have to be the case the OP was talking about spending 10k more on an 18ft aluminum boat than i spent on my 21' wake boat that has a 350 in it.  \

but if you want to fish please dont ruin a wakeboard boat by fishing on it.  thats a travesty. 

phred

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2014, 04:42:01 PM »
If you buy a boat for $25k, then it is only fair wife also gets to buy something she wants for $25k.

Blindsquirrel

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2014, 04:50:30 PM »
   Up to you. You only live once. I have a boat and spend a lot of time on the water. They lose value at a stunning rate so get it used off of CL. Do not pay retail/sales tax/etc and toys should never ever be financed IMO. I love to fish and will have a boat until the day I die or head for the old folks home. The average boat hits the water 6 days or fewer in a year according to Boating.com  so unless you are buying a guides boat, chances are fair the wear and tear is small. Mine hits the water about 40-45 days a year and has for 7 years with no major issues. 

Midwest

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2014, 04:59:56 PM »
Hello,

I've have been punched in the face and have returned the favor to others over the years, but for some reason I can't get the idea of a boat out of my head. Wakeboarding and intertubing is so much fun, being out in the sun with friends and family when I was growing up is still vivid to me today, and I'd like to start that up again now that I'm an adult and dad moved away.

But, it doesn't seem to square with financial rationality-its just a pleasure toy. I tried to find articles and threads but only found one about a canadian guy in debt who seemed really crazy. My books look good, heading towards FI within 10 years (if wife keeps working...) It just doesn't seem like a boat would derail that by much, and we only have so many trips around the sun...right??

And rules like dave ramseys 50% of annual income? I can feel the wind in my hair...and see myself beating the salmon with a bat...

Boat owner here.  Not a cheap hobby.  However, I put 75-100 hours a year on my boat so at least I use it (I have friends with boats so I'm on the water 100+ days a year easy).

If you are a wakeboarder, I've found that inboards/v-drives are easier to maintain and hold their value better than I/O's or outboards.  My boat has never been to the dealer for service.  It's not that I'm a mechanical genius, inboards are just that easy to maintain.

With regard to fishing, I fish off my competition ski boat.  We've even padeled up into the trees with it (no I'm not putting a trolling motor on it).

I've had my current boat for 10 years (bought used).  My last boat (also used) cost me about $3,000 in depreciation to own for 5 years and put 500 hours on.  If you are going to be cruising down the lake, however, i/o's get better fuel economy.

Buying new is for suckers as are the 10 year financing plans.  I have friends who have 50k nautiques and we swap rides behind each others boats.  Ride feels the same behind my boat as theirs.

To the guy who paid $15k for the VLX.  Smoking deal. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 05:14:22 PM by Midwest »

Midwest

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2014, 05:03:42 PM »
If you buy a boat for $25k, then it is only fair wife also gets to buy something she wants for $25k.

You just need to convince your wife she wants a boat.  My wife wanted a kid in exchange for the boat.

2527

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2014, 05:11:18 PM »
Buy used and sell it when you lose interest.

CDP45

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2014, 10:20:50 PM »
If you buy a boat for $25k, then it is only fair wife also gets to buy something she wants for $25k.

You just need to convince your wife she wants a boat.  My wife wanted a kid in exchange for the boat.

Haha you guys called it, we're due late this year lol. Is pregnancy a trigger for boat fever??

Wife says she's on-board, haha. Yea I really need to educate myself on buying used too. I'm really not a wake boarder, I would just like to be towed behind it or tow an inter-tube from time to time.

So regarding the financing, what about self-financing with like 30% cash  and the rest from a Roth account? I did have like 30% gains last year??? Are there threads here about financing from retirement savings?

Villanelle

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2014, 06:20:57 AM »
If you buy a boat for $25k, then it is only fair wife also gets to buy something she wants for $25k.

You just need to convince your wife she wants a boat.  My wife wanted a kid in exchange for the boat.

Haha you guys called it, we're due late this year lol. Is pregnancy a trigger for boat fever??

Wife says she's on-board, haha. Yea I really need to educate myself on buying used too. I'm really not a wake boarder, I would just like to be towed behind it or tow an inter-tube from time to time.

So regarding the financing, what about self-financing with like 30% cash  and the rest from a Roth account? I did have like 30% gains last year??? Are there threads here about financing from retirement savings?

If you can't pay for it, you can't afford it.  Especially on a depreciating asset.  And even more especially on a depreciating asset that is already a huge luxury. 

Thegoblinchief

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2014, 06:54:12 AM »
Surprised no one has mentioned the extra costs of a toy hauler versus a proper economical people hauler. That's a huge portion of boat cost as well, unless you live on the water.

Not a boater myself, so I can't advise about the boat purchase itself. But don't finance or raid a Roth for it.

Random

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2014, 10:41:12 AM »
I have a boat.  It is a 20' aluminum with a 90 hp.  We use it a lot in the summer to get out camping.  Life pre-kid included lots of sea kayaking trips, backpacking, etc.  this is our way to get off the road system and onto remote beaches, introduce our daughter to the wilderness, camping, etc. in relative comfort and safety.  It is important to me and my wife for our sanity and dose of wilderness.  To see my daughter's eye grow wide at the sight of a sea otter rolling next to the boat.  It is priceless.

And it is expensive.  Initial cost, Fuel, maintenance, parking spot near the harbor, had to replace the aging toyota truck with an aging suburban to haul it more effectively, etc., etc.

At the end of the day, you have to decide if the cost is worth it.  It is for us for now and I think will be until my kid is old enough to go backpacking, or unless we move somewhere too far from water.

James

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2014, 10:48:43 AM »
If you can't pay for it, you can't afford it.  Especially on a depreciating asset.  And even more especially on a depreciating asset that is already a huge luxury.

I agree.

I owned a boat, they do cost a lot even beyond the purchase price in ways you can't easily determine up front, and from your talk about the boat I think it would end up costing you a lot more than you realize.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 10:50:33 AM by James »

shotgunwilly

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2014, 07:39:43 AM »
Long time reader, but I finally took the plunge to sign up and contribute today.

I own a boat.  I use my boat almost every weekend throughout the entire year (I fish throughout the winter too).  I tournament fish and fishing is pretty much my life. It's what makes me happiest in this world, so I do it. 

That said, in my opinion, it is not worth owning a boat unless you use it ALL the time.  Boats are money pits, and unless you're keeping on top of them CONSTANTLY, you will have tons of problems with them.  If you are somewhat mechanically inclined, you can save alot on service and repairs, because boat mechanics charge a premium.  I've saved THOUSANDS on my boat by working on it myself. 

B.O.A.T = Bring Out Another Thousand

eil

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2014, 09:47:36 AM »
Sometimes I stumble onto threads like this that make me wonder if anyone here has ever read a single sentence of MMM's writings. I congratulate the OP for having the courage to come here for legitimate advice on what could end up being a very dumb idea. To everyone else who has responded to the OP so far with some variation of, "if you want a boat, then just buy one already," here's a facepunch for you:



After a luxury sports car, a boat is pretty much the most un-mustachian thing I can think of. Motorboats are huge money and time sinks. I grew up near one of the great lakes and know lots of people with boats, including my father. If you take care of your boat, you actually spend as much (usually more) time on dry land doing maintenance, cleaning, fuelling, trailering, etc than the boat actually spends in the water. If you don't take care of your boat, it goes to hell and will lose almost all of its value. Either way, it's a lot of work/money/time for not that much enjoyment.

Owning a boat also usually means you need a vehicle capable of towing it, so that's a secondary face punch for having a highly unmustachian method of transportation that you would only really need once in awhile. (If you already have a pickup and don't own a horse ranch or something, you're already doing it wrong.)

This is all doubly true if you are not yet financially independent. You say you have 10 years to go. You should not be spending your little green employees on frivolous luxuries when you're just starting out on your FIRE journey. Save your cash, invest it, decrease your spending to mustachian levels. After you've retired early and have crunched the numbers to make sure that your stash can easily withstand the considerable financial dent incurred by a such an extravagant zero-ROI luxury, then fine, go for it.

It's easy to buy things because you want them. But Mustachianism is about being badass enough to resist expensive luxuries and finding frugal or even productive ways to spend quality time with friends and family so that one day you can hop right off the consumerist treadmill with confidence.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 09:52:16 AM by eil »

S0VERE1GN

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2014, 09:53:11 AM »
Boat Rental? Neighbor that owns a boat?

I also love the idea of a boat, and my initial idea is to build a wooden boat from scratch as a project in a few years. in the interim I've been borrowing from friends, Just throw them a $100 at the end of the day and top off the fluids.  STILL cheaper than a boat.

Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2014, 09:58:38 AM »
Sorry to be a cynic, but having owned and sold a boat, and watched my parents go through the same, I've come to believe the jokes about boat ownership aren't so much jokes as absolutely true warnings. Here's a few of my favorites:

"What does B.O.A.T stand for?" - "Break Out Another Thou."
"Should I get a boat?" - "Well, stand in a cold shower for 4 hours while tearing up $100 bills every few minutes. If you love the feeling, definitely buy a boat!"
"What's a boat?" - "A hole in the water into which you pour money."
and not really a joke, but I've heard power boats described as having the kind of operation and maintence upkeep you'd expect from wheelless RVs that spend most of their life in a corrosive solution.

Edit because I just noticed this:
Haha you guys called it, we're due late this year lol. Is pregnancy a trigger for boat fever??

Consider this a facepunch with love, okay? ARE YOU FUCKING CRAZY? Assuming moderately typical maternal and paternal reactions to new parenthood, you will not be taking your INFANT out on whitecap busting speedboat joy rides. No, that's just not going to happen. Save the money for the kid. You won't spend more than ten hours on that boat in the year after your wife delivers, and if you do, it'll be solo and then (assuming moderately typical wife reactions to being left at home with a new baby while husband goes boating) your wife will kick your ass.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 10:06:47 AM by Erica/NWEdible »

Cromacster

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2014, 09:58:44 AM »
I inherited my parents 1972 alumacraft canoe.  I've never towed a skier with it, but damn we've had some adventures!  And someday I'll probably give it to my kid (or more likely my nephew)

MicroRN

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2014, 10:33:13 AM »
Haha you guys called it, we're due late this year lol. Is pregnancy a trigger for boat fever??

Wife says she's on-board, haha. Yea I really need to educate myself on buying used too. I'm really not a wake boarder, I would just like to be towed behind it or tow an inter-tube from time to time.

Ok, so we bought a 30' sailboat...then had a baby...and then spent thousands maintaining the boat while we didn't take it out.  Before we had the baby, we had happy visions of family time on the boat, but it just never happened.  During later pregnancy, just walking down to the marina made me feel dizzy and nauseated, and I was very uncomfortable actually on the boat.  Then once we had the baby, we always needed to find another person, either to babysit while we went out or to make sure that we had a dedicated baby-person, because the rigging sucked and it took 2 to sail.  My new-mom paranoia was in overdrive and I hated taking the baby down to the boat at all.     

I would really, really, really recommend not getting a boat until after baby is here and you have settled into a new routine.

MicroRN

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2014, 10:40:26 AM »
Oh, and I totally missed the "finance from Roth"  comment earlier.  Don't buy something that's a pure luxury unless you can just afford to just drop the cash on it. 

CDP45

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2014, 07:11:48 PM »
Hey everyone! I really do appreciate the time you've taken to respond, I'm so impressed with MMM helping bring smart and caring people together. So, I think there are a couple main points I'm hearing and tackle the first one for now.

1. Won't use it - new baby will take up free time, boat will become a chore to maintain/use.
2. Too expensive - non-frugal plus paying interest on depreciating luxury toy even worse.

Use
Ease: Iím in a geographically advantageous spot with boat use living about 1.5mi from a launch to a giant river thatís open year-round. I already have a truck (V6- I live near work! donít hate itís amazingly useful tool). Plus I will store it next to my garage under my covered area (no need to fetch it from storage or re-arrange garage). Aluminum boats are quite easy to self-launch as well. I could easily spend 3-4 hours on a weekday after work on the river with friends and family because itís so close. Leaving my driveway to water is literally 5mins.

Demand: Wife likes boating, but we will have an infant soon...but I have many family and friends nearby and potentially work clients I could spend time with. Whatís great about the boat is that almost everyone can enjoy it for getting together compared to my other hobbies rock climbing/snowboarding/hunting/running. It seems like a very inclusive activity. BBQs/dinner are great but I want to have more fun/adventure. Additionally this river has a huge Salmon run.

Availability: Aluminum boat offers flexibility to use ďoff-seasonĒ for fishing. Fully enclosed windshield and top design really reduces the ďstanding in cold showerĒ effect. Iíve fished in open sleds in  torrential downpours in coastal bays in 50deg weather for hours, not fun, even the guides cut it short. I could comfortably use this boat 8/mo/yr.

Maintenance: Iím uncertain on time requirements here. I have no problem changing oil and spark plugs, but iím unsure of what else goes into maintaining outboards, though my Alaskan friends donít seem to have a problem with  hundreds of hours/yr. Iím not going into salt so no need to wash down, and I donít think aluminum hulls need any maintenance.

Before marriage and pregnancy, I spent a lot of time at the rock gym, hiking, and snowboarding. Probably going to be doing a lot less climbing and boarding due to danger and time commitments. Instead of having fam over for BBQ, they can bring sandwiches and we can go for a boat rides sometimes. Because the boat will be used socially I really think having a capacity of 6 people is necessary. That requirement leads to an 18+ ft boat which then leads to higher costs...

CDP45

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2014, 07:49:47 PM »
Update:

I did not buy a boat! I did however rent a boat which was an excellent educational experience about the hard work it takes to own and maintain a very expensive piece of complicated machinery. It's a lot of work, maybe next year I'll start with a smaller one and work my way bigger.

vagon

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2014, 09:03:46 PM »
Update:

I did not buy a boat! I did however rent a boat which was an excellent educational experience about the hard work it takes to own and maintain a very expensive piece of complicated machinery. It's a lot of work, maybe next year I'll start with a smaller one and work my way bigger.

Good work on resisting the purchase, you cant afford it. Re-read this:

Sometimes I stumble onto threads like this that make me wonder if anyone here has ever read a single sentence of MMM's writings. I congratulate the OP for having the courage to come here for legitimate advice on what could end up being a very dumb idea. To everyone else who has responded to the OP so far with some variation of, "if you want a boat, then just buy one already," here's a facepunch for you:

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After a luxury sports car, a boat is pretty much the most un-mustachian thing I can think of. Motorboats are huge money and time sinks. I grew up near one of the great lakes and know lots of people with boats, including my father. If you take care of your boat, you actually spend as much (usually more) time on dry land doing maintenance, cleaning, fuelling, trailering, etc than the boat actually spends in the water. If you don't take care of your boat, it goes to hell and will lose almost all of its value. Either way, it's a lot of work/money/time for not that much enjoyment.

Owning a boat also usually means you need a vehicle capable of towing it, so that's a secondary face punch for having a highly unmustachian method of transportation that you would only really need once in awhile. (If you already have a pickup and don't own a horse ranch or something, you're already doing it wrong.)

This is all doubly true if you are not yet financially independent. You say you have 10 years to go. You should not be spending your little green employees on frivolous luxuries when you're just starting out on your FIRE journey. Save your cash, invest it, decrease your spending to mustachian levels. After you've retired early and have crunched the numbers to make sure that your stash can easily withstand the considerable financial dent incurred by a such an extravagant zero-ROI luxury, then fine, go for it.

It's easy to buy things because you want them. But Mustachianism is about being badass enough to resist expensive luxuries and finding frugal or even productive ways to spend quality time with friends and family so that one day you can hop right off the consumerist treadmill with confidence.

Also DO NOT FINANCE THIS, you are making a really, really bad financial decision.
Find another hobby or if you really, really have to keep boating stick with renting.

Terrestrial

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2014, 09:30:56 PM »
I second (or third, fourth, etc) the DO NOT finance a rapidly depreciating toy.  I don't think owning a boat is inherently anti-mustacian (everybody has their hobbies) but financing one certainly is.

Another way to think of spending 25k + whatever it costs to maintain it...25k is essentially equivalent to perpetual income of $1k/year.  Then there is whatever you are spending in maintenance/insurance.  I will (probably generously) guess that this is another ~300-500/year?

How many times a year can you rent a boat for 1500/year of equivalent income, and never use a cent of your 25k. 

mpg350

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2014, 05:30:13 AM »
I would avoid a boat unless you really plan on using it every week....and also boats are gas hogs expect $40+ a week in gas if you did use it every week.

I would suggest a good used jet ski for $5-6k.   You can do wakeboarding and pull a tube behind a jet ski and they are much more fun
than a boat. 

I would suggest a Kawasaki 15F...its very reliable and gets good gas mileage.  I purchased a 2008 model used for $5,500 this year with a trailer and love it not a problem at all.

Things you need to think about a boat is storage a rental facility is going to cost I would imagine $100 a month or more and if you trailer can your vehicle tow a heavy boat?

The mustachian way of boating is with a 3 seater jet ski
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 05:32:49 AM by mpg350 »

Gone Fishing

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2014, 09:18:00 AM »
I know you have gotten past it (for the moment), but also consider how much working time it will add to your FIRE date.  As I bear down on mine, there is a constant reminder that I would be done by now if I had avoided a few toys that I don't even play with anymore. 

Another though is to make the boat a gift to yourself once you reach FIRE.  Once FIREed, you will have plenty of free time to use and maintain your boat, your kid will be 10 years old and ready to throughly enjoy it as well.  Your last few months of work will be motivated by the fact that it is all going to buy something you have always wanted.

Delayed gratification, it is what this forum is all about.
 

boarder42

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2014, 09:27:36 AM »
I would avoid a boat unless you really plan on using it every week....and also boats are gas hogs expect $40+ a week in gas if you did use it every week.wrong boats are not that much non boat owners are insane with assumptions

I would suggest a good used jet ski for $5-6k.   You can do wakeboarding and pull a tube behind a jet ski and they are much more fun
than a boat.  you can not actually wakeboard behind a jet ski.  you can get up and cut around but you cant jump there is nothing to jump.  jetski are more fun is a personal opinion

I would suggest a Kawasaki 15F...its very reliable and gets good gas mileage.  I purchased a 2008 model used for $5,500 this year with a trailer and love it not a problem at all. and you jetski is now worth 4500 i purchased a boat 2 years ago for 14500 put 3000 into it and its worth 25k right now

Things you need to think about a boat is storage a rental facility is going to cost I would imagine $100 a month or more and if you trailer can your vehicle tow a heavy boat? You can live on a lake like i do and have your boat sit on a lift all year and borrow a friends truck 2x a year once to drop in once to put in storage.  Rental facility for 100 a month is insanely high ... i store mine on a lift over the summer for 250 dollar total.  in the winter i store it for 70 bucks a month in a climate controlled cave total storage cost is under 600 a year for me

The mustachian way of boating is with a 3 seater jet ski

The mustachian way of boating is to not own a boat ... but if you're really into something as i am in to wakeboarding you can build your life around it to make it more affordable than 90% of the hobbies people pursue including jet skiing.  Learn the facts research your area.  figure out the real costs. 

WisconsinFI

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2014, 09:48:05 AM »
I own a wakeboard boat...well half of one, which helps keep costs down.  With that being said, it still can be very expensive.

Ways we cut down on cost by:
1. We are on a lake and pay someone to pickup/drop-off when it needs to go to the dealer (cheaper than monster truck ownership)
2. The vehicle that we do have to use can haul the boat <1 mile (25 mph) to the garage where we store it. It's not rated for the weight, but everything I've read points to the fact that it's about stopping power. Drive slow and don't be stupid or just find a nice friend to borrow their clown vehicle.
3. Do your own maintenance.  This involves oil changes (every year), winterization, impellar changes (every 2-3 years).  This saves us around $500/year I'd say. It's not that hard and I'm not a gearhead nor a mechanic.
4. Pay cash and buy an older model (ours is 14 years old and most people are shocked to hear this)
5. Don't fill up gas on the lake
6. We scoured craigslist/onlyinboards for months before we found the right one

We have had several things go wrong, but you just have to control the costs you can.  This year it will be around $700 of unexpected costs (total repair around $1400).  I love our inboard and I get to go on 'vacation' every summer weekend to enjoy it. 

boarder42

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2014, 10:20:32 AM »
what kinda boat do you have wisconsin.  i have a 1999 Malibu VLX got it for 14.5k put perfect pass on it.  plan to plumb in my own ballast

WisconsinFI

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Re: Boat?
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2014, 01:29:28 PM »
what kinda boat do you have wisconsin.  i have a 1999 Malibu VLX got it for 14.5k put perfect pass on it.  plan to plumb in my own ballast

It's a 2000 Moomba Mobius V 22 ft and some odd inches. Props to you if that includes drilling holes in your boat :)

We bought ours without tower/ballast/perfect pass and had it all put in.  It allowed us to customize exactly the look we wanted and it's worked out great.  That sounds like a steal....ours was a bit more than that pre-add ons.  It has a great surf wave and the wakeboard wave is as big as I'll ever need.  Used is definitely the way to go...