Author Topic: Question for e-bike commuters  (Read 3403 times)

samanil

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Question for e-bike commuters
« on: November 25, 2020, 12:25:51 AM »
Hi Mustachians,

I want to build my own ebike using a kit and am considering what bike to buy. MMM says he recommends a full suspension bike. Based on my initial research it seems like quality full suspension bikes are pretty expensive. Most of the used full suspension bikes on craigslist are in the thousands. However it looks like quality front suspension bikes can be found at reasonable prices.

I'm hoping there are some battle tested e-bike commuters who can chime in on this. Is a front suspension bike adequate, or will I regret it and wish I had bought a full suspension? If so, recommendations on how to find affordable full suspension options (500 dollar range) if possible?

habanero

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2020, 01:10:02 AM »
e-bikes are a Big Thing here, and most are only front or no suspension. The electric motor stops providing torque past 25 km/h (15mph) afaik on commercial models sold here.

The full-suspension ones are generally aimed at cyclists into trail cycling, just as with regular bikes you have to do all the pedaling yourself.

His case for full suspension is when going very fast (40mph mentioned) on a less-than-smooth surface, so if you don't plan to ride at very high speeds that point should go away.

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2020, 09:39:07 AM »
I'm building one like Mr 1500 who used a full suspension. It'll be fast, 30mph plus according to the article.

cincystache

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2020, 11:43:29 AM »
It likely depends quite a bit on the road conditions you'll encounter.

Exercise some serious caution and keep in mind if you're riding on bike trails and/or public roads you are doing so illegally so don't make it obvious or flaunt that power. E-bikes that go that fast are for private property only by law but as long as you're not an asshole and flying by people on bike trails going 40mph you probably won't get caught... People like that give e-bikes a bad reputation. I would stick with the legal class 1 or class 2 for public roadways and trails but that's just my opinion.

I ride a class II bike, throttle and speed limited to 20mph. I bought it from Rad which is one of the biggest entry level ebike sellers in the states that I'm aware of. It was 1300 last black friday. It is plenty fast for my needs and I honestly wouldn't want to go faster unless I had a full face helmet and some other safety equipment.

If you want to push a bike that fast I wouldn't recommend buying a cheap hardtail for $500 hoping it can handle the added stress and demands of going 30-40mph. At least make sure you have some serious stopping power in the form of good quality disc brakes. You didn't mention your familiarity with bikes but please get the thing checked out by a good bike mechanic before you start cruising at high speeds.

Okay, I'll stop being such a responsible grown up... good luck! have fun.


samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2020, 01:21:29 PM »
Thank you for that thorough write up. The plan is to utilize that 30mph speed, but on arterials where cars are going at least that fast. I pretty much only ride in the street and avoid anywhere that people are walking. I am also respectful of cars and just try to get where I want to go fast but without being a problem. I worked as a bike courier for a year and did thousands of deliveries in Seattle and SF on a single speed bike.

I found a used 2019 Specialized Rockhopper 29er which is a hardtail that retails at $800 new. Seems like it should be a sturdy machine. I guess the question is if I'll be able to find routes that are smooth enough that the speed isn't a problem for the hardtail.

Sunder

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2020, 06:39:24 AM »
I've built and ridden electric bikes for 10 years now. If you don't know what you're doing, they can be money sinks. If you do, they are nearly free transport, exercise and recreation in one.

I can't really sum up 10 years of experience in a single post, but I will try with a few short statements.

1) Get a bigger battery than you need for three reasons. One, lithium dies fast when you repeatedly drain it below 20% capacity. Two, batteries also die fast when they get warm from being pushed too hard up hills. Three, range diminishes over time. If you need to go 60km a day  and buy a battery good for 65km, then when it loses 10% of it's capacity, you have an expensive paper weight. If you buy an 80km range battery, then you need to lose 20% before you need to think about replacing it.

2) All drive types will work reliably if cared for. But if you want a set and forget solution, nothing beats a direct drive hub motor with oil or ferromagnetic solution in the casing to keep it cool. Mid(chain) drives need a bit of love to stay reliable, and geared hubs need to be ridden carefully, or you burn out clutches and strip gears. That said  I run a geared hub currently, mostly for weight.

3) If you have to skimp, buy a second hand bike (as it appears you have) and skimp on the motor and controller. The bike determines your safety, the battery determines your speed and range. Better quality motors and controllers basically only affect noise and efficiency. While those are nice to have, a safe bike that goes the distance and speed you want is more important to most people.

Hope this helps.

Malcat

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2020, 06:45:52 AM »
I'm curious why you want to go that fast.

My 350W e-bike only has front suspension and at the lowest power setting, I'm usually zipping along at just under 20mi/hr and even then, bumps in the road or even remotely sudden stops are alarming.

Cars and pedestrians also just don't know what to do with a bike going that fast, they can't judge your speed because they don't expect it.

I had no idea what I wanted from an e-bike, so I bought a used one for $500. The battery is in decent shape and I'll probably get at least another year or two out of it, but it's really helping understand just how much overkill I was considering before.

Maybe you have a really good reason for wanting an illegally fast bike, but in case you don't, I would strongly recommend trying a legal model first and seeing if it meets your needs before falling down the rabbits hole of full suspension bikes, because yes, I personally would need full suspension if I were trying to navigate roads at double the speed I currently do.

Before dumping thousands into this, seriously examine the logic that dictates that you need it. If you are certain that you want to go that fast, then instead of spending thousands to try and force a bike to be basically a motorcycle, then why not buy a small motorcycle or a scooter?

A huge benefit to that would be that you can insure it properly. If your e-bike is illegal, can you even get liability insurance? Because you will absolutely need it traveling at that speed.

BikeFanatic

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2020, 07:46:52 AM »
I have been riding and building E bikes since 2004 and I think you can get away with a sturdy ( I like steel dropouts if using hub motor) mountain bike. Front suspension is good and rear is not needed. Though the fun factor goes up with a dual suspension, the fun factor on an Ebike is high enough.

I reccomend Ebikes.ca canada company they have a ton of online research available adn the products are top notch and come with online service. Great stuff to build your own bike, good luck. ALso a good battery is very important, can make or break and ebike. MY rule of thum for fast  riding is 2 miles per Amp hour. So a 10 amp hour battery will get you 20 miles at less than 25 MPH. At 30 MPH maybe only 15 miles.

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2020, 12:06:37 AM »
I'm curious why you want to go that fast.

It's not necessarily that I want to go 40mph all over the place. When the conditions are right, I might push it to 40 mph (long smooth road with a lot of space around me and no upcoming obstacles etc.). I did thousands of deliveries as a bike courier in Seattle and SF, and there are hills in both cities that I roared down at at least 30 mph on a bike with no suspension at all. It's fun, and I never felt like I was in danger. It would be nice to have all of that power on tap for when the circumstances are right, but I wouldn't use it all the time (just like people who buy the Tesla Roadster won't be launching to 60 mph in 2 seconds every time they accelerate or going 200 mph as much as possible).

I live in Seattle which is one of the hilliest cities in the country, so a lot of the time that power will help me get up a big hill, presumably at a speed closer to what you are used to. My understanding is that the 40 mph is only possible when you are peddling with maximum effort and you are going downhill or flat, so it won't actually be possible a lot of the time anyways. I would rather have a bit more power than I need and simply not use it, than have a bit less power than I want and be stuck with that. The reason I want this bike is because I work as a carpenter and my job changes to different work sites around the city, so I want a powerful machine that will make quick work of the many different commutes my job requires of me (most of which will have big hills). I currently live 1 mile from my jobsite, which is awesome, but after this project is done I could easily get assigned to a project 45 minutes away by car or 1.5 hours away by non-electric bike.

Regarding a motorcycle or scooter, I want a bike for all the reasons that bikes are awesome (exercise, extremely maneuverable, can lock up at a bike rack etc.).

I'm surprised that the idea I am proposing is being challenged (not that that is a bad thing, I'm just surprised) when it is based on an article in which both MMM and his friend Mr1500 sing the praises of the bike I am hoping to build.

Anyways, I hope that clarifies my thinking a little bit, and if you have further thoughts I'd be interested to hear. And I pretty much decided on getting a front suspension bike, so I won't be sinking too much money into this (less than 2k).

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2020, 12:15:12 AM »
Also regarding the illegal nature of an ebike that goes 30mph+, I like MMM's take on it:

Quote
If phone-wielding teenagers are allowed to legally drive 3-ton 300 horsepower pickup trucks on residential streets, then surely it is acceptable for a 185 pound man with a motorcycle license and some basic motocross training to enjoy his 0.6 horsepower electric motor without a speed limiter installed. But I am definitely increasing my risk by riding at higher speeds!

Malcat

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2020, 08:45:26 AM »
FTR, I respectfully disagree with A LOT of Pete's takes on things. Also, never be surprised by push back here, it's what we do.


I shared my personal experience with my e-bike, I didn't tell you what you should or shouldn't do other than to consider why you want to resort to an illegal bike for that level of speed. I shared my personal experience of having the exact same attitude of preferring to be overpowered rather than under powered, until I bought a second hand, low powered e-bike and found it plenty powerful and it handles even steep, long hills as if they're nothing, it's like riding on flat ground.

As for whether or not the legality is reasonable, I'm not commenting on that at all, I specifically pointed to the issue of liability. I would never, ever ride an e-bike without insurance.

If you assess the situation and the risks and decide that a heavily powered e-bike is right for you, whether on a hard tail or full suspension or whatever, then go nuts, no judgement from me.

I'm not criticizing you, I'm sharing my personal perspective and experience that I ended up very happy with a much lower power bike, which does well with only front suspension, didn't cost thousands of dollars, and is cheap to insure.

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2020, 10:34:11 AM »
I should have said in my first response that I appreciate your input! I did not take it as criticism and wasn't bothered by it. I think disagreement is a good thing. I said I was surprised that there was disagreement with MMM gospel, but in retrospect I shouldn't have been since MMM isn't a religion and MMM followers are very intelligent people who think for themselves.

How far do you go on your bike? Do you commute daily on it? Are there a lot of hills where you live? What's the range? Model?

Just trying to get a sense of your situation.

secondcor521

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2020, 10:46:28 AM »
I don't know where everyone lives, but since legality has been mentioned several times, I'm just posting to point out that the laws on electric bikes vary from state to state.  I am a bit familiar with e-bike law in my state, but not WA.

Malcat

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2020, 10:59:42 AM »
I should have said in my first response that I appreciate your input! I did not take it as criticism and wasn't bothered by it. I think disagreement is a good thing. I said I was surprised that there was disagreement with MMM gospel, but in retrospect I shouldn't have been since MMM isn't a religion and MMM followers are very intelligent people who think for themselves.

How far do you go on your bike? Do you commute daily on it? Are there a lot of hills where you live? What's the range? Model?

Just trying to get a sense of your situation.

Lol @MMM gospel. There are more people here who viciously criticize Pete than who blindly follow him. His message is critical thinking, so that's what this place does.
To a fault actually...

My bike is 7 years old, so the battery only has about 50% of its range. If I run it at its lowest power level, it can easily get 30km, I haven't pushed it further than that. If I bump it up to higher power, it drains pretty fast, but if I invested in a spare battery, it wouldn't be an issue. However, the battery for my bike model (an old easy motion) is integrated into the frame, so it's crazy expensive. More than buying a new and better e-bike. My bike also has v-brakes, which seriously sucks. Stopping quickly is NOT fun.

My city is relatively flat compared to where you live, but there are some epic hills here. There's one that's very steep, very long, and curved in a circle. Almost no one bikes up it, most people give up and walk their bikes. Mine can take it easily at the lowest power level. I have a serious knee injury so I can't do hills at all and they're like nothing on my e-bike. You really don't need much power to tame hills.

I used it for commuting to my last job but only because there was secure indoor bike storage. My city has insane bike theft rates. My commute was pretty short though, 10km each way, a few short hills, but a lot spots with fellow bikers and pedestrians, which did not terribly feel safe at higher speeds, especially with shitty v-brakes.

As for top speed, I honestly don't know what my bike can do because I never run it at the top power level. The lowest "eco" level is normally more than I need, and the higher levels are too hard on my old, tired battery, plus it stops feeling at all like cycling at that point.

The 20mi/hr I can do is with a little bit of effort in Eco mode, and virtually no effort in regular mode, and because of my injuries, I'm a weak cyclist, so I'm slower than most.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2020, 12:56:33 PM »
+1 to everything Malcat said.

I'm in a very flat location (IL). The enemy here isn't hills, it is winds. There are times where I can use the Rad's full 750W and it won't make 20 mph. That's when I have a steady headwind of 10-15 mph though.

Cars already don't react well to me, either trying to cut me off because they see a bike and make assumptions about my speed, or because they "roll through" a stop sign, so I get to slam the brakes to stop before I t-bone them.

I do daily commute when it is nice -- kid to school, me from school to work, then reverse. Or I did pre-pandemic. Now its just kid to school then home. I ride a Rad Wagon bought new in 2017. I fully agree with Malcat that doing 20 without working too much in the lowest power setting (and I tuned my low power setting lower than the default it shipped with!) is easy. Anything over that is "I want to arrive not sweaty at all, but *look* to cars like I am biking" or "that's a hell of a headwind today."

I have about 1200 miles on the bike in the time I've had it. Not a ton, to be sure. I had a shorter daily commute the first two years (~6 mi), then a longer one (~10mi) for a short bit, and now its just school and home (~2 mi). I don't bike in the winter between the glare ice puddles (central IL = snow->melt->puddle->freeze) and/or the bike path having the roads cleared onto it and being impossible to traverse.

I wanted to get a class 3 e-bike (eg, pedal-assist (no throttle) to 28mph) but then covid happened, then I changed jobs into a permanent-wfh position. I wanted 28mph because it would let me pretty much keep up with traffic on 30mph 2-lane 1-way roads on the way to/from work. That's become... mostly irrelevant. Probably my ideal current target would be something like an ELF, PEBL, or BioHybrid. More wheels means while ice is still an issue for stopping, I don't fall over. Being enclosed also means the wind won't chap my eyelids and thus will expand my biking season.

Technically, the BioHybrid wouldn't be legal where I am in IL either. 4 wheels = not a bike. That's worse than stupid IMO, considering there's (maybe there was? looks like they moved to Ohio?) a botique quadricycle (1 or 2 seater) manufacturer within a day's drive, but whatever. I've actually seen one of their bikes going down the road locally, a 2-seater.

Sunder

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2020, 04:56:45 PM »
Quote from: Malcat
My bike is 7 years old, so the battery only has about 50% of its range. If I run it at its lowest power level, it can easily get 30km, I haven't pushed it further than that. If I bump it up to higher power, it drains pretty fast, but if I invested in a spare battery, it wouldn't be an issue. However, the battery for my bike model (an old easy motion) is integrated into the frame, so it's crazy expensive. More than buying a new and better e-bike. My bike also has v-brakes, which seriously sucks. Stopping quickly is NOT fun.

I googled Easy Motion and see a lot of different models, they all look "integrated", but only one looks completely sealed into the frame. (As in not removable at all), but even then, I think there should be a removable access panel.

If you can open up the battery, you might be able to see what kind of cells they used. Almost certainly they are the very common 18650 type. (18mm in diameter, and 65mm in length.)

If that's the case, it should be possible to count the number of cells you have, and buy a $20 12v spot welder, and some nickel tape, then look for the right cells to replace them. 18650 cell tech has come a VERY long way in 7 years due to Tesla and Vapers, both who use cylindrical cells of some sort.

When buying cells, they broadly cone in two types - energy dense, and power dense. Energy dense will give you longer range. Power dense will give you more... well power up hills and acceleration. It's always a trade off between the two  and thankfully among the A grade manufacturers, (Panasonic, LG, Samsung, Sony, etc.) They all have a range of models between "2.2Ah, but will deliver all its power safely within 4 minutes" to 3.6A, but should be discharged no faster than in 30 minutes".

Genuine cells should be about $4-$8 usd per cell depending on volume. Most factory made eBikes would use 20 to 40 18650s, so the whole project cost should set you back under $300.

If you have done it before, you can probably do it in less than a day, but finding the right cells, double and triple checking everything will take a lot longer. Some eBike shops who actually service them, not just sell them can also do this for you for quite a reasonable cost. I'm not in the US, but on an eBike forum that has a lot of members that are, and it seems like those that get someone else to rebuild a custom pack, is about $400 to $500, but the people on the forum tend to do upgrades rather than straight replacements (bigger packs or higher performance packs) so it might be marginally cheaper.

I think the more people who can self service eBikes the better. While I encourage all eBike use, because it reduces emissions  dependence on oil, and also creates a culture where biking issafer, it does shock me sometimes how much factory made eBikes cost (some as much as a new mid range motorcycle), and how much they try to lock you into their ecosystem and kept getting bled.

Malcat

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2020, 05:53:53 PM »
Quote from: Malcat
My bike is 7 years old, so the battery only has about 50% of its range. If I run it at its lowest power level, it can easily get 30km, I haven't pushed it further than that. If I bump it up to higher power, it drains pretty fast, but if I invested in a spare battery, it wouldn't be an issue. However, the battery for my bike model (an old easy motion) is integrated into the frame, so it's crazy expensive. More than buying a new and better e-bike. My bike also has v-brakes, which seriously sucks. Stopping quickly is NOT fun.

I googled Easy Motion and see a lot of different models, they all look "integrated", but only one looks completely sealed into the frame. (As in not removable at all), but even then, I think there should be a removable access panel.

If you can open up the battery, you might be able to see what kind of cells they used. Almost certainly they are the very common 18650 type. (18mm in diameter, and 65mm in length.)

If that's the case, it should be possible to count the number of cells you have, and buy a $20 12v spot welder, and some nickel tape, then look for the right cells to replace them. 18650 cell tech has come a VERY long way in 7 years due to Tesla and Vapers, both who use cylindrical cells of some sort.

When buying cells, they broadly cone in two types - energy dense, and power dense. Energy dense will give you longer range. Power dense will give you more... well power up hills and acceleration. It's always a trade off between the two  and thankfully among the A grade manufacturers, (Panasonic, LG, Samsung, Sony, etc.) They all have a range of models between "2.2Ah, but will deliver all its power safely within 4 minutes" to 3.6A, but should be discharged no faster than in 30 minutes".

Genuine cells should be about $4-$8 usd per cell depending on volume. Most factory made eBikes would use 20 to 40 18650s, so the whole project cost should set you back under $300.

If you have done it before, you can probably do it in less than a day, but finding the right cells, double and triple checking everything will take a lot longer. Some eBike shops who actually service them, not just sell them can also do this for you for quite a reasonable cost. I'm not in the US, but on an eBike forum that has a lot of members that are, and it seems like those that get someone else to rebuild a custom pack, is about $400 to $500, but the people on the forum tend to do upgrades rather than straight replacements (bigger packs or higher performance packs) so it might be marginally cheaper.

I think the more people who can self service eBikes the better. While I encourage all eBike use, because it reduces emissions  dependence on oil, and also creates a culture where biking issafer, it does shock me sometimes how much factory made eBikes cost (some as much as a new mid range motorcycle), and how much they try to lock you into their ecosystem and kept getting bled.

Thanks for this.

The v-brakes are the bigger deal breaker for me. I'll probably sell the bike next summer and the next person can worry about the battery. That said, what I actually meant was that having a second battery would basically eliminate range anxiety, and for that, I would have to buy a whole new battery, and because it fits into the frame, it's more expensive because it's particular to this bike, which is discontinued.

However, I will copy this somewhere for when I'm faced with another dying battery and want to revive it.

FINate

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2020, 05:55:52 PM »
I have a cargo e-bike that I've put close to 5000 miles on over 4 years. It was our daily commuter for taking the kids to school (we're FIRE), but we're homeschooling this year so now it's just our family wagon for pretty much all errands around town. We recently moved and our city is now mostly flat, but previously there were a lot of hills. Two kids, backpacks, and myself, going up some pretty steep hills just fine with electric assist. I would often go 30+ mph on the flats/downhills fully loaded, though I've slowed it down after a few close calls -- it's true, drivers don't expect bikes to go that fast. I should add, this with no suspension.

IMO, suspension isn't worth the expense or the maintenance bother for street riding. My recommendation is to get a decent used bike with disk brakes and add a 750w mid-drive BAFANG kit. A 13Ah battery should be sufficient for 40+ miles of range at moderate speed even after years of recharge cycles. A mid-drive allows the electric assist to utilize the mechanical advantage of the gears. If you really need more low-end power then go for a smaller chainring.

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2020, 06:04:55 PM »
I have a cargo e-bike that I've put close to 5000 miles on over 4 years. It was our daily commuter for taking the kids to school (we're FIRE), but we're homeschooling this year so now it's just our family wagon for pretty much all errands around town. We recently moved and our city is now mostly flat, but previously there were a lot of hills. Two kids, backpacks, and myself, going up some pretty steep hills just fine with electric assist. I would often go 30+ mph on the flats/downhills fully loaded, though I've slowed it down after a few close calls -- it's true, drivers don't expect bikes to go that fast. I should add, this with no suspension.

IMO, suspension isn't worth the expense or the maintenance bother for street riding. My recommendation is to get a decent used bike with disk brakes and add a 750w mid-drive BAFANG kit. A 13Ah battery should be sufficient for 40+ miles of range at moderate speed even after years of recharge cycles. A mid-drive allows the electric assist to utilize the mechanical advantage of the gears. If you really need more low-end power then go for a smaller chainring.

That's pretty much my plan. Are you recommending getting a bike with no suspension at all? I have a single speed bike with no suspension that I love, but I read that with a powerful mid drive kit you want gears. I'm thinking I'll get something with front suspension and disc breaks for around $500.

Malcat

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2020, 06:15:06 PM »
I have a cargo e-bike that I've put close to 5000 miles on over 4 years. It was our daily commuter for taking the kids to school (we're FIRE), but we're homeschooling this year so now it's just our family wagon for pretty much all errands around town. We recently moved and our city is now mostly flat, but previously there were a lot of hills. Two kids, backpacks, and myself, going up some pretty steep hills just fine with electric assist. I would often go 30+ mph on the flats/downhills fully loaded, though I've slowed it down after a few close calls -- it's true, drivers don't expect bikes to go that fast. I should add, this with no suspension.

IMO, suspension isn't worth the expense or the maintenance bother for street riding. My recommendation is to get a decent used bike with disk brakes and add a 750w mid-drive BAFANG kit. A 13Ah battery should be sufficient for 40+ miles of range at moderate speed even after years of recharge cycles. A mid-drive allows the electric assist to utilize the mechanical advantage of the gears. If you really need more low-end power then go for a smaller chainring.

That's pretty much my plan. Are you recommending getting a bike with no suspension at all? I have a single speed bike with no suspension that I love, but I read that with a powerful mid drive kit you want gears. I'm thinking I'll get something with front suspension and disc breaks for around $500.

??

You can get a bike with gears and no suspension.
The recommendation for suspension is that at higher speeds it can really hurt and be dangerous to go over potholes and bumps. At least, that's my understanding. My last bike had no suspension, and I would not find that comfortable at e-bike speeds.

FINate

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2020, 06:16:49 PM »
I have a cargo e-bike that I've put close to 5000 miles on over 4 years. It was our daily commuter for taking the kids to school (we're FIRE), but we're homeschooling this year so now it's just our family wagon for pretty much all errands around town. We recently moved and our city is now mostly flat, but previously there were a lot of hills. Two kids, backpacks, and myself, going up some pretty steep hills just fine with electric assist. I would often go 30+ mph on the flats/downhills fully loaded, though I've slowed it down after a few close calls -- it's true, drivers don't expect bikes to go that fast. I should add, this with no suspension.

IMO, suspension isn't worth the expense or the maintenance bother for street riding. My recommendation is to get a decent used bike with disk brakes and add a 750w mid-drive BAFANG kit. A 13Ah battery should be sufficient for 40+ miles of range at moderate speed even after years of recharge cycles. A mid-drive allows the electric assist to utilize the mechanical advantage of the gears. If you really need more low-end power then go for a smaller chainring.

That's pretty much my plan. Are you recommending getting a bike with no suspension at all? I have a single speed bike with no suspension that I love, but I read that with a powerful mid drive kit you want gears. I'm thinking I'll get something with front suspension and disc breaks for around $500.

I'm an avid mountain biker, for fun and fitness (non-electric), and for that I use full suspension. And I also road bike and use the cargo bike for trips within a few miles. Neither my road bike nor my cargo bike have suspension. Not once in all my years of riding roads have I ever wanted suspension, including front suspension. It adds cost and weight, and it's one more thing to maintain. Suspension components, including front forks, need routine maintenance and this is fairly specialized work requiring certain tools and know-how. Not worth it unless you plan on a lot of real mountain biking, with rocks and roots and such. But then, a mountain e-bike is an entirely different beast altogether.

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2020, 06:58:30 PM »
Malcat, sorry that wasn't clear. My plan is to get a bike with both front suspension and gears, essentially the opposite of my current bike with no suspension/no gears.

FINate, interesting, so you are saying that even going 30mph on your ebike, you felt fine without any suspension? What about when you hit those inevitable cracks in the road? There is a road near me that has a series of cracks that just suck with my single speed/no suspension bike, even when I'm going like 5 mph. It's an unusually poor section of road, but it seems like run ins with bad sections of road are inevitable when you're commuting around a city. The minimalist in me would prefer no suspension at all for the reasons you mention, but it seems like the benefit might outweigh the costs. MMM mentions how he blew out various parts of his non-suspension e-bike...not a problem for you?

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2020, 07:17:51 PM »
Yes, no problems. You don't need to be a weight weenie with an e-bike, so you can put some heftier components on it, such as tougher tires. I run Schwalbe Big Ben Plus tires on my cargo bike, along with some tire sealant in the tubes. No flats in ~5000 miles, though I do find staples and nails embedded in the tire when I replace them.

It's really no big deal to exceed 30 mph on a road bike with skinny little tires. I used to approach 50 mph going down hills, but have slow down in recent years as it's just too dangerous.

The cargo bike is also fine at speed, never feels out of control. And the roads in my old city were terrible.

Your legs are the best suspension. On rough sections get up off the saddle a couple of inches and let the bike rattle around under you.

ETA: Just to be clear, I'm not bombing through really bad sections of road at 30 mph. I slow down and pick a line that avoids the worst stuff. And if there's no good way through it I slow down even more and get up off my saddle. It's really not a big deal, and I've ridden many roads that are more potholes than tarmac.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2020, 07:47:18 PM by FINate »

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2020, 09:07:05 PM »
Thanks for your input, the way you are describing your riding style corresponds with how I am envisioning my own e-bike riding. That being said, I think I'm going to go with a front suspension bike just to smooth things out a little bit. But hearing how you ride gives me reassurance that I will be fine without a full suspension bike.

AccidentialMustache

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2020, 10:48:05 PM »
Worth mentioning: I put one of the suspension seat posts -- a previous gen of https://canecreek.com/product/thudbuster-lt/ -- on my Rad Wagon.

It's nice to smooth out moderate bumps, but for big ones I rise up out of the seat.

I also take the lane a lot so I can avoid bumps. They painted "bike paths" on the edge of the road and it's usually a pothole dumpster fire, so I don't ride there. Most drivers don't get dickish about me in the lane. It probably helps that I'm a large cargo bike with runners and (large looking if usually empty) panniers.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2020, 07:07:15 AM »
Thanks for your input, the way you are describing your riding style corresponds with how I am envisioning my own e-bike riding. That being said, I think I'm going to go with a front suspension bike just to smooth things out a little bit. But hearing how you ride gives me reassurance that I will be fine without a full suspension bike.

Yes, some of us are much, much wimpier riders than others. *I* couldn't do high speeds without ample suspension, but my legs can't be my suspension.

Granted, I'm on the extreme other end of the spectrum with a body full of broken parts, and my reason for having an e-bike is that I can't even ride a regular bike comfortably anymore.

So wherever you land on the spectrum you need to figure out for yourself what you need.

That's also why I suggest considering doing what I did, if you can find a cheap, used hard tail e-bike or even renting one and try it out, it will give you a much better sense of where is best for you to put your money on this: power, battery, and suspension.

What you were proposing, throwing maximum cash at all 3 just in case, feels like overkill to me. You might be perfectly fine with less power, and might be perfectly fine with a hardtail.

It's just really hard to know without trying. My whole point hasn't been to convince you of anything, I'm just sharing my particular experience, which is *not* generalizable unless you are as injured as I am, but what's most valuable of my experience is that in trying something much less than I thought I wanted, I was pleasantly shocked that it was more than I needed.

I was set on quite a powerful motor because I have so much weakness, I just really wanted hills to be easy. And I was set on a mid-drive for whatever reasons, but ended up with a fairly low powered rear wheel motor, and it's great for my needs. I was less concerned about making sure I got disk brakes, but now they're a must have.

Try things out, see how they feel. It's so hard to Intuit from a regular bike what it will be like. E bikes are a whole other experience.

I'm lending my bike to my sister and her injured DH to try so that they can better figure out what components are most important to them. They were both pretty hardcore mountain bikers, but switching to roads because he's severely injured, so they have no idea what they want, but he definitely needs full suspension. 

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2020, 01:52:59 PM »
Worth mentioning: I put one of the suspension seat posts -- a previous gen of https://canecreek.com/product/thudbuster-lt/ -- on my Rad Wagon.

It's nice to smooth out moderate bumps, but for big ones I rise up out of the seat.

I also take the lane a lot so I can avoid bumps. They painted "bike paths" on the edge of the road and it's usually a pothole dumpster fire, so I don't ride there. Most drivers don't get dickish about me in the lane. It probably helps that I'm a large cargo bike with runners and (large looking if usually empty) panniers.

Nice, I'll put a suspension seat post on mine if I feel I need a bit more cushion. The rad wagon looks...well, rad. How fast does that thing go? How is it with no suspension?

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2020, 02:06:45 PM »
Thanks for your input, the way you are describing your riding style corresponds with how I am envisioning my own e-bike riding. That being said, I think I'm going to go with a front suspension bike just to smooth things out a little bit. But hearing how you ride gives me reassurance that I will be fine without a full suspension bike.

Yes, some of us are much, much wimpier riders than others. *I* couldn't do high speeds without ample suspension, but my legs can't be my suspension.

Granted, I'm on the extreme other end of the spectrum with a body full of broken parts, and my reason for having an e-bike is that I can't even ride a regular bike comfortably anymore.

So wherever you land on the spectrum you need to figure out for yourself what you need.

That's also why I suggest considering doing what I did, if you can find a cheap, used hard tail e-bike or even renting one and try it out, it will give you a much better sense of where is best for you to put your money on this: power, battery, and suspension.

What you were proposing, throwing maximum cash at all 3 just in case, feels like overkill to me. You might be perfectly fine with less power, and might be perfectly fine with a hardtail.

It's just really hard to know without trying. My whole point hasn't been to convince you of anything, I'm just sharing my particular experience, which is *not* generalizable unless you are as injured as I am, but what's most valuable of my experience is that in trying something much less than I thought I wanted, I was pleasantly shocked that it was more than I needed.

I was set on quite a powerful motor because I have so much weakness, I just really wanted hills to be easy. And I was set on a mid-drive for whatever reasons, but ended up with a fairly low powered rear wheel motor, and it's great for my needs. I was less concerned about making sure I got disk brakes, but now they're a must have.

Try things out, see how they feel. It's so hard to Intuit from a regular bike what it will be like. E bikes are a whole other experience.

I'm lending my bike to my sister and her injured DH to try so that they can better figure out what components are most important to them. They were both pretty hardcore mountain bikers, but switching to roads because he's severely injured, so they have no idea what they want, but he definitely needs full suspension.

Your approach makes sense Malcat. Better to make a small bet and feel things out before making a big purchase. But given my health, experience as a bike courier, and desire to annihilate whatever commute my job requires of me, plus MMMs endorsement of a high powered midrange kit, I feel comfortable making a bigger bet.

I also see eye to eye with MMM on most things, so his opinion carries more weight with me than perhaps the average person on here. It's funny because I worked as a bike courier and then got into carpentry on my own (2 of his favorite things) and then discovered MMM by typing "how to make more money doing carpentry" into google.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2020, 04:31:30 PM »
I got into ebikes by commuting to work on a bike my company lent me for six months on a program to encourage people to get out of their cars. It was exactly the push I needed to take the plunge. The bike I borrowed had no suspension and had a rear-mounted motor. The bike I eventually bought has a mid-mounted (low) motor and suspension.

Just some observations based on my own personal experience:

Ebikes are So Much Fun and I want to go as fast as possible

Fast + the shitty roads we seem to always live around mean that I appreciate my suspension. Even little cracks and bumps can be quite jarring when you are going fast.
I had one period when my chain got rattled off twice in one morning going to work.

Disc brakes are a must in my book. You really want to be able to stop on a dime when going that fast and riding a heavy bike. Doubly so now that I spend most of my time pulling a bike trailer full of kids.

The motor on the back wheel makes the bike awkward to move and a little unstable. I much prefer my current bike with the motor low and center on the bike.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2020, 04:43:23 PM »
One last thought: in Washington Class III bikes are allowed on the roads, but not on bike and pedestrian trails. Those are the bikes that will assist up to 28 mi/hr. Class I and II (assist up to 19 mi/hr) are allowed on roads and trails.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/new-law-sets-standards-rules-for-using-e-bikes/

I have ridden with a 19 mi/hr limiter and without one and I vastly prefer no limiter. I donít usually go much more than 20-24 mi/hr but when I was limited it would always kick in hard when I was trying to get a boost of speed to keep mesafe, like put distance between me and a car, get through an intersection while the light was still green, etc. I hated that just in the moment that I needed that extra bit of speed the limiter would clamp down and make the bike unpredictable.

Iím not riding at crazy speeds (I feel) and I also feel I am safer on the road when I am going closer to the speed of the cars around me. Note, this is in Seattle and my observation is that people here see enough bikes on the road that they are smart about sharing the road. Some people in the Bay Area would freak out and default to being overly considerate, stopping to let me go when they had the right of way, and other behaviors that made me feel unsafe because the cars werenít acting predictably.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2020, 07:39:05 PM »
I'm building one like Mr 1500 who used a full suspension. It'll be fast, 30mph plus according to the article.
I highly recommend no suspension or front only.   You can get a fat tire bike... that's what my DH did when riding an over powered bike on roads with semi trucks and lots of misc shoulder gravel.   (Not a fast road, just an industrial area).

Why no suspension -- well, I tried out his bike.  I must say that the braking and lack of other safety features like motorbikes have is a concern, and all that jarring without suspension helps one understand the risks better and stay focused, and yes, lower speed naturally to a comfortable ride. 

 The extra power is terrific for climbing hills, especially with a trailer, and turns running to the store for errands on your bike into a joy.

FWiW, the bike I have is from 1999, bought as a sale from prior year.  It has a bit of seat suspension post, but not much else.  I put a motor on it, and it's great.  It has a bit extra power, but I put on the pedal assist mode instead of just throttle, and I love cycling and use it to cycle, just longer distances and faster.

Because it is old, I am not so worried about attracting too much attention on its value when I park it.  It does not look super-valuable, and I downplay the electric nature / hide the battery, etc.

ETA-- The bafung mid drive motor is newer, about 2 yrs old.  Yes,  I put a mid drive onto a 20 year old bike, one that I paid about $175 new.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2020, 07:52:05 PM by Goldielocks »

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2020, 08:33:25 PM »
One last thought: in Washington Class III bikes are allowed on the roads, but not on bike and pedestrian trails. Those are the bikes that will assist up to 28 mi/hr. Class I and II (assist up to 19 mi/hr) are allowed on roads and trails.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/new-law-sets-standards-rules-for-using-e-bikes/

I have ridden with a 19 mi/hr limiter and without one and I vastly prefer no limiter. I donít usually go much more than 20-24 mi/hr but when I was limited it would always kick in hard when I was trying to get a boost of speed to keep mesafe, like put distance between me and a car, get through an intersection while the light was still green, etc. I hated that just in the moment that I needed that extra bit of speed the limiter would clamp down and make the bike unpredictable.

Iím not riding at crazy speeds (I feel) and I also feel I am safer on the road when I am going closer to the speed of the cars around me. Note, this is in Seattle and my observation is that people here see enough bikes on the road that they are smart about sharing the road. Some people in the Bay Area would freak out and default to being overly considerate, stopping to let me go when they had the right of way, and other behaviors that made me feel unsafe because the cars werenít acting predictably.

Great insights! Sounds like you work for a cool company! Interesting point that the limiter made you less safe by stopping you from getting a boost when you needed it. I can imagine that would really, really bug me. When I want to slam the gas, I want to slam the gas. Disc brakes are non-negotiable for me, e-bike or not.

Do you have a hardtail or full suspension?

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2020, 08:38:01 PM »
I'm building one like Mr 1500 who used a full suspension. It'll be fast, 30mph plus according to the article.
I highly recommend no suspension or front only.   You can get a fat tire bike... that's what my DH did when riding an over powered bike on roads with semi trucks and lots of misc shoulder gravel.   (Not a fast road, just an industrial area).

Why no suspension -- well, I tried out his bike.  I must say that the braking and lack of other safety features like motorbikes have is a concern, and all that jarring without suspension helps one understand the risks better and stay focused, and yes, lower speed naturally to a comfortable ride. 

 The extra power is terrific for climbing hills, especially with a trailer, and turns running to the store for errands on your bike into a joy.

FWiW, the bike I have is from 1999, bought as a sale from prior year.  It has a bit of seat suspension post, but not much else.  I put a motor on it, and it's great.  It has a bit extra power, but I put on the pedal assist mode instead of just throttle, and I love cycling and use it to cycle, just longer distances and faster.

Because it is old, I am not so worried about attracting too much attention on its value when I park it.  It does not look super-valuable, and I downplay the electric nature / hide the battery, etc.

ETA-- The bafung mid drive motor is newer, about 2 yrs old.  Yes,  I put a mid drive onto a 20 year old bike, one that I paid about $175 new.

That's an interesting point that feeling the bumps of the road keeps your head in the game. Reminds me of the book Born to Run which argues that shoes with a lot of padding increase the likelihood of a running injury because they shield the runner from the pain sensations that would otherwise cause the body to make important adjustments. That makes me glad that I compromised with a hardtail.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2020, 10:08:43 PM »
Nice, I'll put a suspension seat post on mine if I feel I need a bit more cushion. The rad wagon looks...well, rad. How fast does that thing go? How is it with no suspension?

Class 1/2, so only 20 mph, but I have a throttle and pedal assist. Given it maxes out at 750w and that on flat-and-level ground the motor needs about 400-500w to propel me at 20 with no pedaling, it ain't getting much above that even if you removed the governor. Which you can, its just a software setting -- at least on my generation. I leave it because I'd prefer to remain legal. What I did do was tweak the wattage at each different assist level, to be a more useful curve (it was set by default too high).

I don't find lack of suspension a big deal, but the only suspension I've ever had is an older hybrid that had front fork suspension. It was aluminum though, and the rad is steel, so it naturally has a bit more give to it.

I don't need the suspension seatpost, but it is nice that I can ignore smaller bumps.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2020, 08:50:18 PM »
One last thought: in Washington Class III bikes are allowed on the roads, but not on bike and pedestrian trails. Those are the bikes that will assist up to 28 mi/hr. Class I and II (assist up to 19 mi/hr) are allowed on roads and trails.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/new-law-sets-standards-rules-for-using-e-bikes/

I have ridden with a 19 mi/hr limiter and without one and I vastly prefer no limiter. I donít usually go much more than 20-24 mi/hr but when I was limited it would always kick in hard when I was trying to get a boost of speed to keep mesafe, like put distance between me and a car, get through an intersection while the light was still green, etc. I hated that just in the moment that I needed that extra bit of speed the limiter would clamp down and make the bike unpredictable.

Iím not riding at crazy speeds (I feel) and I also feel I am safer on the road when I am going closer to the speed of the cars around me. Note, this is in Seattle and my observation is that people here see enough bikes on the road that they are smart about sharing the road. Some people in the Bay Area would freak out and default to being overly considerate, stopping to let me go when they had the right of way, and other behaviors that made me feel unsafe because the cars werenít acting predictably.

Great insights! Sounds like you work for a cool company! Interesting point that the limiter made you less safe by stopping you from getting a boost when you needed it. I can imagine that would really, really bug me. When I want to slam the gas, I want to slam the gas. Disc brakes are non-negotiable for me, e-bike or not.

Do you have a hardtail or full suspension?

uh.... I'm not familiar with the lingo here so I'll take a guess. Hardtail means suspension in front but not in back? That's what I have. It's not a full mountain bike-like craziness.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2020, 11:45:15 AM »
People usually talk about MTBs when doing ebike conversions, but is there any reason you couldn't use a hybrid?
I have a Fuji Absolute 2.0 aluminum with a steel fork and am thinking of getting a road bike and turning the Fuji into an ebike. No disc brakes which might be iffy. I'd probably put some fatter tires on at least.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2020, 11:52:57 AM »
People usually talk about MTBs when doing ebike conversions, but is there any reason you couldn't use a hybrid?
I have a Fuji Absolute 2.0 aluminum with a steel fork and am thinking of getting a road bike and turning the Fuji into an ebike. No disc brakes which might be iffy. I'd probably put some fatter tires on at least.

Now that I have an e-bike with v brakes, disc breaks are a must for my next e-bike.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2020, 04:01:53 PM »
People usually talk about MTBs when doing ebike conversions, but is there any reason you couldn't use a hybrid?
I have a Fuji Absolute 2.0 aluminum with a steel fork and am thinking of getting a road bike and turning the Fuji into an ebike. No disc brakes which might be iffy. I'd probably put some fatter tires on at least.
I think hybrids, with good strong smooth road tires are the best options for ebike kits.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2020, 12:47:06 PM »
For those concerned, I picked up a 2018 Cannondale Quick CX3, which is described as:

The Cannondale Quick CX 3 is a joyrider in every sense of the word. Based on a mountain bike frame, the CX 3 has been upgraded with road components to make it more compatible with urban environments. Link: https://bikexchange.com/cannondale-quick-cx3-review/

It has 29 inch wheel, hydraulic disc brakes and a lockable suspension fork. So I think that makes it a hybrid? It MSRPs at 825, I found it for $450 off craigslist. I have super tough $50 tires on my other bike that I plan to put on this one. I'm now about to pull the trigger on a middrive kit, excited about it!


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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2020, 02:02:32 PM »
For those concerned, I picked up a 2018 Cannondale Quick CX3, which is described as:

The Cannondale Quick CX 3 is a joyrider in every sense of the word. Based on a mountain bike frame, the CX 3 has been upgraded with road components to make it more compatible with urban environments. Link: https://bikexchange.com/cannondale-quick-cx3-review/

It has 29 inch wheel, hydraulic disc brakes and a lockable suspension fork. So I think that makes it a hybrid? It MSRPs at 825, I found it for $450 off craigslist. I have super tough $50 tires on my other bike that I plan to put on this one. I'm now about to pull the trigger on a middrive kit, excited about it!
From the webpage.

The Quick CX 3 is a great mid-level stump jumper. While not the best bicycle for your urban commute, the CX 3 provides a dependable ride regardless of the terrain.

At just $700, it hits a critical price junction between functionality and cost. Keep in mind that the drivetrain components are decidedly mid-level, and will most likely need replacement after some time if you abuse the bike too much.


This sounds like a good bike if you are using your ebike for off-road, unpaved paths. A bit pricey for me.  YMMV :-)

samanil

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2020, 07:11:00 PM »
Above where you quoted it says:

Cannondale CX 3 retails for $825 and comes packed with some quality components for that money.

The article is analyzing the bike as is, so it makes sense why it says the bike isn't the ideal commuter. There are much faster bikes designed for pavement. I wanted a more rugged bike that can handle bumps at 30mph, so naturally opted for a stump jumper type bike.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2020, 07:15:50 PM »
Looks like a pretty solid option.. You should give an update when you build it out. I'm curious to hear how it works for you. Enjoy!

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2020, 07:46:03 PM »
Thank you, I will update when it's done. I have a feeling its going to be a game changer!

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2020, 07:47:38 PM »
Thank you, I will update when it's done. I have a feeling its going to be a game changer!

Oh it will be. E-biking is a whole other reality.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2020, 10:43:06 PM »
Oh it will be. E-biking is a whole other reality.

This x1000.

Although I admit to wanting the next x1000, which is +1 (or two) wheel(s) and +fairing.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2020, 06:09:51 PM »
Above where you quoted it says:

Cannondale CX 3 retails for $825 and comes packed with some quality components for that money.

The article is analyzing the bike as is, so it makes sense why it says the bike isn't the ideal commuter. There are much faster bikes designed for pavement. I wanted a more rugged bike that can handle bumps at 30mph, so naturally opted for a stump jumper type bike.
Yeah, I was just feeling salty about something not related to MMM Forum. 
You will love your ebike, for everything.

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2020, 01:40:12 PM »
I'm jealous of the build you are doing.  An e-bike seems like so much fun and I would be looking for something similar to your build.  A hardtail with around 750W mid drive seems about right to me (although I've never ridden an e-bike). 

I don't currently have a good location for riding an e-bike so spending much on one doesn't make sense.  But, I will certainly own one someday. 

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2021, 03:55:57 PM »
Just wanted to update everyone who chimed in on this post--I got my ebike up and running a few weeks ago, and it is incredibly fun! I absolutely love how powerful it is, yet I still have to work to get up the big hills. A few days ago I was cruising to work without using the motor, and I noticed a city bus was hovering behind me in my blind spot, sort of putting pressure on me, and I simply slammed down the throttle and within a few moments I was a full block ahead of the bus! So much fun--and useful.

The one issue is that my chain skips quite often. I think it's a derailleur issue. The chain seems to be one gear higher than the shifter says it should be in, so when I am in 8th gear, the chain is already on the smallest gear (9th). I really don't like derailleurs, or shifting in general (which is why I ride a single speed bike normally), however I do appreciate the value of having gears when it comes to the hills. On the higher gears the motor can't get me up steep hills, whereas on the lowest gear the motor will billy goat up just about anything. It's a tradeoff, but it does have be dreaming of putting a front hub motor on a bike with a belt drive and an internally geared hub in the back.

For now I'll use my single speed to do local errands and deliver food, and the electric bike to do long distances like to my Dad's house (20 miles away) or if I need to commute far for work.

secondcor521

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Re: Question for e-bike commuters
« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2021, 04:12:40 PM »
Derailleurs can be adjusted by a bike shop pretty easily.  E-bike derailleur adjustments should pretty much be the same as regular bike derailleur adjustments.

Chain skip can also be due to a loose chain.  If you take it to the bike shop to have the derailleur adjusted, they can also check the chain and take out a link or two if needed.

These two items are also relatively easy DIY things if you want to try it yourself first.