Author Topic: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline  (Read 5665 times)

JupiterGreen

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2022, 09:27:37 AM »
I've read this thread with fascination and just want to add that a (late) relative of mine lost his life savings on a multi-year scam. The details of the scam are unclear because he did pass away, but it may have started with a fake girlfriend who was asking for money and continued with sob stories about her family. The scam went on for multiples years and like I said he lost all his savings (exact amount unclear, but he was well compensated). My relative likely had some cognitive decline because he legitimately felt emotionally invested and never understood/saw the scam. 

My relative had a wife who lived with him and a daughter that he was very close with/lived near. They had no idea this was going on until he defaulted on his property taxes. Just a reminder that having children/people close to you does not automatically mitigate scams. These suggestions are fantastic, thank you. This is a great time for planning whether we have children/family/people close or not.

Here is what I do now to prevent scams:

-All accounts have 2-step verification
-Set up any additional alerts for the accounts that allow this (I get an email when atm card is used etc.)
-Change passwords frequently
-Passwords are saved in a written (or picture) form, not digital
-Check my accounts at least once a month

As these kinds of online threats/scam evolve, perhaps we need to get together and start some sort of co-op type group specifically designed to protect assets from cognitive decline. IDK, how exactly it could be done but it's just a thought because clearly better options are needed and it may not be enough (or even fair) to rely on family members to do this for us.



Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7354
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #51 on: July 28, 2022, 12:50:35 PM »
I've read this thread with fascination and just want to add that a (late) relative of mine lost his life savings on a multi-year scam. The details of the scam are unclear because he did pass away, but it may have started with a fake girlfriend who was asking for money and continued with sob stories about her family. The scam went on for multiples years and like I said he lost all his savings (exact amount unclear, but he was well compensated). My relative likely had some cognitive decline because he legitimately felt emotionally invested and never understood/saw the scam. 

My relative had a wife who lived with him and a daughter that he was very close with/lived near. They had no idea this was going on until he defaulted on his property taxes. Just a reminder that having children/people close to you does not automatically mitigate scams. These suggestions are fantastic, thank you. This is a great time for planning whether we have children/family/people close or not.

Here is what I do now to prevent scams:

-All accounts have 2-step verification
-Set up any additional alerts for the accounts that allow this (I get an email when atm card is used etc.)
-Change passwords frequently
-Passwords are saved in a written (or picture) form, not digital
-Check my accounts at least once a month

As these kinds of online threats/scam evolve, perhaps we need to get together and start some sort of co-op type group specifically designed to protect assets from cognitive decline. IDK, how exactly it could be done but it's just a thought because clearly better options are needed and it may not be enough (or even fair) to rely on family members to do this for us.

The stepmother of a good friend of mine is going through this right now. My friend's dad (her husband) died from Covid a couple of years ago. The stepmom was alone and isolated and let herself get catfished into a relationship with a "man" who lives in some other country and XYZ reasons/complicated story about how much he wants to meet her and how she's his true love, except he needs money to come to her, etc. etc. She has fallen for it hook, line, and sinker, to the point that she's on the verge of being completely destitute. My friend doesn't know how much money this person has scammed from her stepmom, because stepmom is still completely in the throes of this thing, it's her and the guy against the world, no one else understands, etc. This woman has cut off friends and family who have questioned the relationship and tried to help her. This woman even has two adult sons who have thrown up their hands and distanced themselves because she absolutely will not see reason and will immediately cut off communication with anyone who dares to tell her this guy might not be for real.

A couple of months ago, my friend and her husband finally managed to get stepmom's defenses down enough to get her to meet them for lunch, just so they could physically see her and try to figure out how she was. She says that when they got to the restaurant, her stepmom was so thin and haggard/aged she could hardly believe it. My friend and her husband ordered lunch, but the stepmom would only order a Diet Coke. My friend says it was pretty apparent that stepmom didn't have the money to buy a meal, but refused to let them pay, said she just wasn't hungry, and refused to talk at all about anything related to her finance or this guy.

It's just shocking, and tragic. I don't know this woman very well, but I've met her several times and she always seemed like by far the smartest and most "with it" of any of my friend's four parents. It's just awful.


Wolfpack Mustachian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1869
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #52 on: July 28, 2022, 01:07:06 PM »
I've read this thread with fascination and just want to add that a (late) relative of mine lost his life savings on a multi-year scam. The details of the scam are unclear because he did pass away, but it may have started with a fake girlfriend who was asking for money and continued with sob stories about her family. The scam went on for multiples years and like I said he lost all his savings (exact amount unclear, but he was well compensated). My relative likely had some cognitive decline because he legitimately felt emotionally invested and never understood/saw the scam. 

My relative had a wife who lived with him and a daughter that he was very close with/lived near. They had no idea this was going on until he defaulted on his property taxes. Just a reminder that having children/people close to you does not automatically mitigate scams. These suggestions are fantastic, thank you. This is a great time for planning whether we have children/family/people close or not.

Here is what I do now to prevent scams:

-All accounts have 2-step verification
-Set up any additional alerts for the accounts that allow this (I get an email when atm card is used etc.)
-Change passwords frequently
-Passwords are saved in a written (or picture) form, not digital
-Check my accounts at least once a month

As these kinds of online threats/scam evolve, perhaps we need to get together and start some sort of co-op type group specifically designed to protect assets from cognitive decline. IDK, how exactly it could be done but it's just a thought because clearly better options are needed and it may not be enough (or even fair) to rely on family members to do this for us.

The stepmother of a good friend of mine is going through this right now. My friend's dad (her husband) died from Covid a couple of years ago. The stepmom was alone and isolated and let herself get catfished into a relationship with a "man" who lives in some other country and XYZ reasons/complicated story about how much he wants to meet her and how she's his true love, except he needs money to come to her, etc. etc. She has fallen for it hook, line, and sinker, to the point that she's on the verge of being completely destitute. My friend doesn't know how much money this person has scammed from her stepmom, because stepmom is still completely in the throes of this thing, it's her and the guy against the world, no one else understands, etc. This woman has cut off friends and family who have questioned the relationship and tried to help her. This woman even has two adult sons who have thrown up their hands and distanced themselves because she absolutely will not see reason and will immediately cut off communication with anyone who dares to tell her this guy might not be for real.

A couple of months ago, my friend and her husband finally managed to get stepmom's defenses down enough to get her to meet them for lunch, just so they could physically see her and try to figure out how she was. She says that when they got to the restaurant, her stepmom was so thin and haggard/aged she could hardly believe it. My friend and her husband ordered lunch, but the stepmom would only order a Diet Coke. My friend says it was pretty apparent that stepmom didn't have the money to buy a meal, but refused to let them pay, said she just wasn't hungry, and refused to talk at all about anything related to her finance or this guy.

It's just shocking, and tragic. I don't know this woman very well, but I've met her several times and she always seemed like by far the smartest and most "with it" of any of my friend's four parents. It's just awful.

Stories like this are so disconcerting. I wonder if there was full blown dementia or just general cognitive decline. The scariest thing to me is the lack of trust in multiple previously trusted relationships. If you get to the point where your discount grown children who you previously trusted, your closest friends, and so on, how can you ever be safe?

Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7354
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #53 on: July 28, 2022, 01:35:09 PM »
I've read this thread with fascination and just want to add that a (late) relative of mine lost his life savings on a multi-year scam. The details of the scam are unclear because he did pass away, but it may have started with a fake girlfriend who was asking for money and continued with sob stories about her family. The scam went on for multiples years and like I said he lost all his savings (exact amount unclear, but he was well compensated). My relative likely had some cognitive decline because he legitimately felt emotionally invested and never understood/saw the scam. 

My relative had a wife who lived with him and a daughter that he was very close with/lived near. They had no idea this was going on until he defaulted on his property taxes. Just a reminder that having children/people close to you does not automatically mitigate scams. These suggestions are fantastic, thank you. This is a great time for planning whether we have children/family/people close or not.

Here is what I do now to prevent scams:

-All accounts have 2-step verification
-Set up any additional alerts for the accounts that allow this (I get an email when atm card is used etc.)
-Change passwords frequently
-Passwords are saved in a written (or picture) form, not digital
-Check my accounts at least once a month

As these kinds of online threats/scam evolve, perhaps we need to get together and start some sort of co-op type group specifically designed to protect assets from cognitive decline. IDK, how exactly it could be done but it's just a thought because clearly better options are needed and it may not be enough (or even fair) to rely on family members to do this for us.

The stepmother of a good friend of mine is going through this right now. My friend's dad (her husband) died from Covid a couple of years ago. The stepmom was alone and isolated and let herself get catfished into a relationship with a "man" who lives in some other country and XYZ reasons/complicated story about how much he wants to meet her and how she's his true love, except he needs money to come to her, etc. etc. She has fallen for it hook, line, and sinker, to the point that she's on the verge of being completely destitute. My friend doesn't know how much money this person has scammed from her stepmom, because stepmom is still completely in the throes of this thing, it's her and the guy against the world, no one else understands, etc. This woman has cut off friends and family who have questioned the relationship and tried to help her. This woman even has two adult sons who have thrown up their hands and distanced themselves because she absolutely will not see reason and will immediately cut off communication with anyone who dares to tell her this guy might not be for real.

A couple of months ago, my friend and her husband finally managed to get stepmom's defenses down enough to get her to meet them for lunch, just so they could physically see her and try to figure out how she was. She says that when they got to the restaurant, her stepmom was so thin and haggard/aged she could hardly believe it. My friend and her husband ordered lunch, but the stepmom would only order a Diet Coke. My friend says it was pretty apparent that stepmom didn't have the money to buy a meal, but refused to let them pay, said she just wasn't hungry, and refused to talk at all about anything related to her finance or this guy.

It's just shocking, and tragic. I don't know this woman very well, but I've met her several times and she always seemed like by far the smartest and most "with it" of any of my friend's four parents. It's just awful.

Stories like this are so disconcerting. I wonder if there was full blown dementia or just general cognitive decline. The scariest thing to me is the lack of trust in multiple previously trusted relationships. If you get to the point where your discount grown children who you previously trusted, your closest friends, and so on, how can you ever be safe?

Exactly. She is willing to cut off her own children in favor of this "guy." My friend says she's not seeing dementia exactly, more mild cognitive decline which she thinks has interacted with her stepmom's loneliness in a horrible way.

Coincidentally, this same friend's own mother is also experiencing cognitive decline and has fallen for a number of online scams in the last few years. But the fortunate thing there is, my friend lives quite close to her mom and is able to check on her/her emails/her accounts frequently. But in that case, of course, her mom trusts her with this stuff. Still, it's draining and anxiety-provoking for my friend, especially because she is an only child and is the only one able to keep such a close eye on her mother.

It's all pretty scary. Like, it's almost impossible for me to imagine myself ever declining that much, but that means nothing, does it? It could happen to any one of us.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 02:35:43 PM by Kris »

iluvzbeach

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1591
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #54 on: July 28, 2022, 02:27:25 PM »
This stuff scares the heck out of me! My career has been in banking, in some form or another, and I’ve always had a particular interest in the fraud aspect of things. One thing I do to reinforce these risks with my parents/grandparent is constantly forward them articles on these topics, whether it be catfish schemes or fraudulent texts, emails, etc. I just try to make sure they are aware of fraud trends.

There is also a great podcast put out by AARP called The Perfect Scam (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-perfect-scam/id1362050907) and it’s done in a way to be informative, yet not make people feel stupid. I not only listen to it regularly, but also forward particularly good episodes to my elder family members.

I’m fortunate in that I have full line of sight into my mother’s finances, and a pretty good picture of other elder family members. However, none of it is perfect, so we just do the best we can and hope none of them/us fall prey to these scams.

iris lily

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5688
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #55 on: July 28, 2022, 03:57:48 PM »
^^^I always wonder if becoming catfish bait is a function of cognitive decline or merely loneliness and isolation some older men and women have. I've heard about lots of young and middle-aged people succumbing to this too and giving the catfish all their money and depleting their assets to "support" their rich Ethiopean prince. Younger people can hide it easier as well as make up for financial losses so maybe it's not as well know but it does happen.

I saw my rational mother who never had trouble advocating for herself become confused about appropriate boundaries as Alzheimer’s disease took over. But at the time I didn’t know it was Alzheimer’s, or was it? She had weird perceptions about what she “should” do for other people much later in life when she would not have had those ideas earlier.

So perhaps succumbing to cat fishing is (at least partially) about lack of practice in interacting with other humans. Seniors who live alone without regular socialization lose their mojo in self protection/boundary setting.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 04:01:45 PM by iris lily »

deborah

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 16086
  • Age: 14
  • Location: Australia or another awesome area
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2022, 01:03:11 AM »
The people I've known who've fallen for this were both much, much younger, and men.

JupiterGreen

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2022, 07:34:01 AM »
My relative was married and living with his wife but still fell for this "girlfriend". It is interesting that many of the experiences here with the catfish were international. Same with my relative, his "girlfriend" was out of the country (or so she claimed) and the girlfriend/catfish got my relative to send money for all kinds of thing like tuition for one of her siblings. So the story/ruse must have been elaborate. It was not just an onlyfans type of transaction, the catfish got my relative invested in their personal story. So I think these scams prey on the emotions of old people. Maybe it is easier to put older people into fight/flight/flee mode? I believe my relative received a lot of "we need money or we are going to starve, die, etc" because he acted like it was emergency to keep sending money. My relative was borrowing money from people at the end too, and that is what raised the red flag. It is the only reason we know any of the story, but too little too late I'm afraid.

Bananas.

Hula Hoop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1762
  • Location: Italy
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2022, 07:48:54 AM »
My relative was married and living with his wife but still fell for this "girlfriend". It is interesting that many of the experiences here with the catfish were international. Same with my relative, his "girlfriend" was out of the country (or so she claimed) and the girlfriend/catfish got my relative to send money for all kinds of thing like tuition for one of her siblings. So the story/ruse must have been elaborate. It was not just an onlyfans type of transaction, the catfish got my relative invested in their personal story. So I think these scams prey on the emotions of old people. Maybe it is easier to put older people into fight/flight/flee mode? I believe my relative received a lot of "we need money or we are going to starve, die, etc" because he acted like it was emergency to keep sending money. My relative was borrowing money from people at the end too, and that is what raised the red flag. It is the only reason we know any of the story, but too little too late I'm afraid.

Bananas.

I feel so bad for the wife in this situation.  Absolutely mind boggling. 

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22426
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2022, 08:03:13 AM »
A word of caution about fiduciaries: not all are created equal. A relative of my Aunt's (on her side) was single, childless, and very wealthy. She made all the "right" arrangements. She also had my Aunt to keep an eye on things, but she didn't want to be a burden to her, so she hired professionals. Her decline was slow and gradual. Eventually she needed nursing home care. At some point, her fiduciary decided she needed around the clock private care on top of being in a very expensive nursing home! It burned up ALL of her money. Once the money was gone, she was transferred to someplace that took Medicare and the "fiduciary" was done with her. My compassionate Aunt was able to do nothing but visit her.

I have no good answers, probably because there aren't any. I am strongly considering a Continuing Care Retirement Community (CCRC). They cost a shitload of money, but seem to offer a bit more protection and a lot more socialization.

iris lily

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5688
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2022, 08:10:13 AM »
A word of caution about fiduciaries: not all are created equal. A relative of my Aunt's (on her side) was single, childless, and very wealthy. She made all the "right" arrangements. She also had my Aunt to keep an eye on things, but she didn't want to be a burden to her, so she hired professionals. Her decline was slow and gradual. Eventually she needed nursing home care. At some point, her fiduciary decided she needed around the clock private care on top of being in a very expensive nursing home! It burned up ALL of her money. Once the money was gone, she was transferred to someplace that took Medicare and the "fiduciary" was done with her. My compassionate Aunt was able to do nothing but visit her.

I have no good answers, probably because there aren't any. I am strongly considering a Continuing Care Retirement Community (CCRC). They cost a shitload of money, but seem to offer a bit more protection and a lot more socialization.

Curious, what *is*the entry fee  to one of those places? I have always wondered. It strikes me as a bit of a Ponzi scheme.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22426
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2022, 08:34:58 AM »
A word of caution about fiduciaries: not all are created equal. A relative of my Aunt's (on her side) was single, childless, and very wealthy. She made all the "right" arrangements. She also had my Aunt to keep an eye on things, but she didn't want to be a burden to her, so she hired professionals. Her decline was slow and gradual. Eventually she needed nursing home care. At some point, her fiduciary decided she needed around the clock private care on top of being in a very expensive nursing home! It burned up ALL of her money. Once the money was gone, she was transferred to someplace that took Medicare and the "fiduciary" was done with her. My compassionate Aunt was able to do nothing but visit her.

I have no good answers, probably because there aren't any. I am strongly considering a Continuing Care Retirement Community (CCRC). They cost a shitload of money, but seem to offer a bit more protection and a lot more socialization.

Curious, what *is*the entry fee  to one of those places? I have always wondered. It strikes me as a bit of a Ponzi scheme.
They vary. There's usually a large up front fee, then a monthly service fee. The one I'm considering is around $1M, plus $8k a month. When you die, 75% of your initial investment is returned to your heirs. This is for two people and you stay in the unit you buy. If care is needed, it comes to you, even if you develop ALZ. It's crazy expensive, but worth it to me because DH and I both have the ALZ monkey in our family trees.

Friend of mine's dad did something like this. He didn't want to be a burden to his only daughter. He bought into The Sequoias in SF and absolutely loved it there. He made lots of friends and really enjoyed his new life. On a walk outside, he fell unexpectedly. My friend was allowed to live there (in a different apartment, no less) for his last few weeks, until he died. Afterwards, she was shocked at how much of his initial investment was returned to her.

I agree they seem Ponzi-like, but good care is expensive. We can afford it. I compare it to going on a luxury all-inclusive cruise vs. tent camping.

The hang-up for us at the moment is the monthly fee is levied whether you're there or not.  As we plan to travel and snowbird, it doesn't make sense until we get those things out of our system. But when the time is right...

iris lily

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5688
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2022, 09:04:42 AM »
A word of caution about fiduciaries: not all are created equal. A relative of my Aunt's (on her side) was single, childless, and very wealthy. She made all the "right" arrangements. She also had my Aunt to keep an eye on things, but she didn't want to be a burden to her, so she hired professionals. Her decline was slow and gradual. Eventually she needed nursing home care. At some point, her fiduciary decided she needed around the clock private care on top of being in a very expensive nursing home! It burned up ALL of her money. Once the money was gone, she was transferred to someplace that took Medicare and the "fiduciary" was done with her. My compassionate Aunt was able to do nothing but visit her.

I have no good answers, probably because there aren't any. I am strongly considering a Continuing Care Retirement Community (CCRC). They cost a shitload of money, but seem to offer a bit more protection and a lot more socialization.

Curious, what *is*the entry fee  to one of those places? I have always wondered. It strikes me as a bit of a Ponzi scheme.
They vary. There's usually a large up front fee, then a monthly service fee. The one I'm considering is around $1M, plus $8k a month. When you die, 75% of your initial investment is returned to your heirs. This is for two people and you stay in the unit you buy. If care is needed, it comes to you, even if you develop ALZ. It's crazy expensive, but worth it to me because DH and I both have the ALZ monkey in our family trees.

Friend of mine's dad did something like this. He didn't want to be a burden to his only daughter. He bought into The Sequoias in SF and absolutely loved it there. He made lots of friends and really enjoyed his new life. On a walk outside, he fell unexpectedly. My friend was allowed to live there (in a different apartment, no less) for his last few weeks, until he died. Afterwards, she was shocked at how much of his initial investment was returned to her.

I agree they seem Ponzi-like, but good care is expensive. We can afford it. I compare it to going on a luxury all-inclusive cruise vs. tent camping.

The hang-up for us at the moment is the monthly fee is levied whether you're there or not.  As we plan to travel and snowbird, it doesn't make sense until we get those things out of our system. But when the time is right...

We have the funds to do that, and I also have Alzheimer’s Disease in my family pretty rampant.

Before I bought my tiny condo in the city ( and we moved our permanent address to the country) I really did consider a senior living building in the city even though I would’ve been one of the youngest and certainly one of the most healthy  ones there. The attraction of that place for me was the old building, the location, and oh yeah people cook for you! But yes, I would’ve only been there on some days so not really practical, and I didn’t price it out but it’s nothing like the 1 million Dollar investment place. My tiny condo is in a similar building half a block away, and that tiny condo is in a building of de facto senior citizens. We have many elderly folks there who toddler around, some of them with walkers.

I have seen those high-end million dollar down places and I wonder what the $8000 a month gets you.  I know ones that are more modest at around 40 $45,000 a year. They give  you a one bedroom apartment plus meals plus laundry.

The posh one I have my eye on has some really nice attached dwellings with gardens. Not all residences are that, of course, they vary, See, that’s what I would really miss very much, having a little bit of dirt to play in.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2022, 09:07:51 AM by iris lily »

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8907
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2022, 09:38:35 AM »

 good care is expensive.

Actually, all care is expensive.  Guaranteed good care is 1) extraordinarily expensive, 2) hard to find and 3) the only sort of care you want to have.

Growing old is not for the poor or weak.

Catbert

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3328
  • Location: Southern California
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2022, 11:32:59 AM »
For anyone who wants to get the hell scared out of them regarding guardians for old people, watch this episode of Dirty Money available on Netflix:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11947160/

The documentary series also has other interesting episodes on various types of "dirty money" including payday loans, Jared Kushner as slumlord and more. 

 

rosarugosa

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 358
  • Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2022, 08:58:09 AM »
My Mom has ALZ but is still living alone in her own house.  In a recent daily check-in call, she told me that she had gotten a call from a young voice telling her that there had been an accident and they needed her help.  I said, "That was a scam call, Mom." She said (somewhat impatiently), "I know that.  I told them I was in no position to help them and I hung up." So score one for Mom, who doesn't know what day or even what year it is most of the time.
On the other hand, I have a younger relative who fell for a romance scam and gave the scammer a mind-boggling amount of money before finally seeing the light.  The story was some far-fetched, how-could-you-believe-this-for-a-minute tale about how he was in the US military, and he was somehow given $4mil in gold, but he needed her to buy him iTune gift cards, and blah blah blah??? What the actual fuck?  Some people are very gullible, even without any cognitive impairment.
IL: I am totally with you on the bit of ground to garden, and I would think that is a pretty common desire.  I'm surprised that most of these places don't have some kind of a decent community garden setup.

Dee18

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2216
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #66 on: July 30, 2022, 10:42:22 AM »
The discussion about loneliness making one more likely to fall for scams made me want to mention the kind of retirement community where my mother lives.  She first looked at it (and several others) more than a dozen years ago when my father died, but she wanted to remain in her home. Every other year or so we would encourage her to look at it again, which she did.   Each time came up with a reason to stay--a grandchild in college nearby, a major milestone coming up, etc.  At 97 she finally had the fall that led us to insist she move.  She chose a place that did not require a "buy in."  She pays $3200 a month for a lovely one bedroom apartment with a balcony overlooking beautiful grounds.  There is a small indoor swimming pool, great sidewalks for walking even with a walker, a stream with baby ducks, garden plots, physical therapy available onsite, free transportation in a 5 mile radius, 3 meals a day (in dining room or delivered), cleaning service, various activities like her book club, and emergency call buttons.  The food is good.  There's a wide age range with many people first living in townhomes.  It took a year for my mother to no longer wish she still lived in her home.  She is now very happy to have dinner companions when she wants, to always have someone to "fix" anything (incluing resetting an iPad), to have a beautiful view with no need to supervise lawn care, etc. The funniest thing of all is that I learned my mother likes to play pool! Apparently when she was an occupational therapist she played pool with WWII veterans as part of their rehab.

My mother's experience has made me determined to find a senior living community I like long before I need it. I know it's the nicest thing I can do for my daughter.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 03:39:12 PM by Dee18 »

lifeisshort123

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #67 on: July 30, 2022, 01:59:16 PM »
When the time is right and necessary, I see the advantage to a SLC.  I have seen how it gave family members their lives back, particularly when they had been so lonely after the death of a spouse, etc.

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22426
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #68 on: July 30, 2022, 04:35:01 PM »
When the time is right and necessary, I see the advantage to a SLC.  I have seen how it gave family members their lives back, particularly when they had been so lonely after the death of a spouse, etc.
What is SLC? I can only come up with Salt Lake City which lead me to polygamy which is perhaps another way to receive care. Younger Sister-Wives to care for me and change my diapers in my old age lol!!
Senior Living Community?

stoaX

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1008
  • Location: South Carolina
  • 'tis nothing good nor bad but thinking makes it so
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #69 on: August 01, 2022, 04:51:42 AM »
How does one go about hiring a fiduciary with the confidence that one isn't hiring Bernie Madoff?
OP here - Yes, this seems to be the big question. Thanks everyone for the discussion so far.
A summary of strategies from the group:
  • Simplify to fewer accounts to make it easier to recognize if money is leaking
  • Automate bill payments to reduce errors and missed payments
  • If you're lucky enough to have family or friends you can trust, rely on them to step in when things get out of control. Get the appropriate legal documents in place.
  • if you have a pension, social security, or other regular payments that can pay your regular bills, maybe that will keep you afloat even if you lose all your savings
  • Before you reach a certain age, get housing paid off, and consider an active 55+ community or other situation where you won't be alone
  • Consider handing over the keys to the kingdom at a certain age, and make a plan for that. (If you have someone you trust)
  • Plan ahead to have more money reserved to pay for services like driving, hiring a non-Bernie Madoff fiduciary, etc.
  • I will add - Strengthen your internet security and password security now while you have the mental capacity to figure this stuff out. Limit what information scammers could steal if they got into your devices.

I hope someone who works in elder law sees this and can chime in.
Yes, this great post.

I agree, it is a great post, and on such an important topic. I've implemented, or at least started on almost every task on the Rosarugosa's list.

Catbert

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3328
  • Location: Southern California
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #70 on: August 02, 2022, 11:25:06 AM »
How does one go about hiring a fiduciary with the confidence that one isn't hiring Bernie Madoff?
OP here - Yes, this seems to be the big question. Thanks everyone for the discussion so far.
A summary of strategies from the group:
  • Simplify to fewer accounts to make it easier to recognize if money is leaking
  • Automate bill payments to reduce errors and missed payments
  • If you're lucky enough to have family or friends you can trust, rely on them to step in when things get out of control. Get the appropriate legal documents in place.
  • if you have a pension, social security, or other regular payments that can pay your regular bills, maybe that will keep you afloat even if you lose all your savings
  • Before you reach a certain age, get housing paid off, and consider an active 55+ community or other situation where you won't be alone
  • Consider handing over the keys to the kingdom at a certain age, and make a plan for that. (If you have someone you trust)
  • Plan ahead to have more money reserved to pay for services like driving, hiring a non-Bernie Madoff fiduciary, etc.
  • I will add - Strengthen your internet security and password security now while you have the mental capacity to figure this stuff out. Limit what information scammers could steal if they got into your devices.

I hope someone who works in elder law sees this and can chime in.

This is a good synopsis.  It's important for everyone to realize that at some point you'll need to trust someone or several someones.  If you don't pick them the government will.  It probably needs to be someone younger.  Your 76 year old sibling likely won't be too much help when you need it at age 80.  A grandchild or great niece might be one to help with apps and IT solutions but not the one who makes your healthcare decisions.  Your tax CPA might have suggestions for bookkeepers who can deal with your bills if there is no one else. 

I don't have children and my step sons aren't people who I trust either with my money or health care decisions.  Luckily for me I have a sister who is an RN, 15 years younger and lives locally.  My documents all indicate she should be paid for her time. 

Dee_the_third

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 557
  • Location: Podunk, Midwest
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #71 on: August 02, 2022, 12:33:37 PM »
A few folks have mentioned variations on this already, but I think not being alone probably has a huge protective element by itself. A senior citizen living by themselves with only occasional visits from loved ones is an easier target than a busy retirement community, where a kindly staff member might ask questions when grandma keeps taking shuttles to the store to buy iTunes gift cards.  And even from just a neurology standpoint, we're social animals and loneliness (and boredom) hastens your decline.

Prairie Gal

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2646
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #72 on: August 02, 2022, 03:55:12 PM »
PTF. This has given me some good ideas for myself, but also for my Dad who is 89 and in cognitive decline. My sister and I are already listed on his bank account, but have never looked at it, but maybe we should start.

rosarugosa

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 358
  • Location: Eastern Massachusetts
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2022, 04:56:48 AM »
PTF. This has given me some good ideas for myself, but also for my Dad who is 89 and in cognitive decline. My sister and I are already listed on his bank account, but have never looked at it, but maybe we should start.

I think you should definitely start.  Even if everything is OK, it will at least give you a look at what baseline "normal" looks like, making it easier to determine later if something starts to go awry.

Catbert

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3328
  • Location: Southern California
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2022, 10:31:38 AM »
I think this has been mentioned already but...make sure you have an up-to-date accessible list of accounts and account numbers.  My attorney mentioned that back in the day statements and bills were received in the mail and paid by check.  People kept their old bills and check registers so it was easier to find what accounts, life insurance, etc existed and needed to be dealt with.  Now it's mostly online and will show up on a credit card or bank statement as a cryptic charge.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8907
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Protecting our finances from our own cognitive decline
« Reply #75 on: August 03, 2022, 11:49:25 AM »
I think this has been mentioned already but...make sure you have an up-to-date accessible list of accounts and account numbers.  My attorney mentioned that back in the day statements and bills were received in the mail and paid by check.  People kept their old bills and check registers so it was easier to find what accounts, life insurance, etc existed and needed to be dealt with.  Now it's mostly online and will show up on a credit card or bank statement as a cryptic charge.
Good idea (as were your other suggestions). One thing about being a homeless, car less, wandering (short term renting),  FIREd, single and childless mustachian is that it's very easy and simple to reduce and/or consolidate finances and insurance stuff. But most people have more complex lives and finances so I'd really second getting those things listed in one place together as it can be a huge PITA to locate all the info if someone needs it.
I've found the easiest thing to do is keep a record of all my financial accounts with my last tax return.  Easy for me to find when I do next year's taxes, and hopefully similarly easy for anyone looking for my records to find too.