Author Topic: private pilots and mustachianism?  (Read 10311 times)

CommonCents

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2015, 06:41:09 PM »
I don't know a single person who has died in automobile, but I know at least 8 acquaintance who've bought the farm in general aviation planes.

Someone I knew in college died this spring in a small plane accident, as it was leaving the business work site.  Left behind a wife, two year old - and newborn, only weeks old.  :(  Don't know anyone whose died in a car accident, thankfully, although 2 significant accidents b/w bikes and cars.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 08:47:47 AM by CommonCents »

clifp

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2015, 05:29:10 AM »
It was a beauty http://www.falcoaircraft.org/falcos/n25rp/.

Falco!!!

Always been my dream aeroplane. I used to send away for the info package from Sequoia every few years just to drool over the parts list etc.

I saw one at Oshkosh (1999?) built by a father and son. They said they had almost 1000 hours in the finish (paintjob) alone. It cost them over $100,000 NOT including the engine. It was then that I realized I would have to make do with the info packages.

Still, amazing aeroplane.

Thanks for the memory.

My dad's was cheaper cause he didn't use almost any kits (they didn't have many) and not a lot of avionics.  It flew as good as looked, and it rolled like a fighter jet. This from a F4 pilot.
Unfortunately it totally spoiled me and I fly a C172 exactly one time after I fly the Falco. In Googling looking for the articles on my dads plane (there were 3 total) I see that Sequoia is now pretty much out of business, and it appears that only a few more Falco are every going to be built. The plans are now in the public domain though. 

Rightflyer

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2015, 09:27:38 AM »
It was a beauty http://www.falcoaircraft.org/falcos/n25rp/.

Falco!!!

Always been my dream aeroplane. I used to send away for the info package from Sequoia every few years just to drool over the parts list etc.

I saw one at Oshkosh (1999?) built by a father and son. They said they had almost 1000 hours in the finish (paintjob) alone. It cost them over $100,000 NOT including the engine. It was then that I realized I would have to make do with the info packages.

Still, amazing aeroplane.

Thanks for the memory.

My dad's was cheaper cause he didn't use almost any kits (they didn't have many) and not a lot of avionics.  It flew as good as looked, and it rolled like a fighter jet. This from a F4 pilot.
Unfortunately it totally spoiled me and I fly a C172 exactly one time after I fly the Falco. In Googling looking for the articles on my dads plane (there were 3 total) I see that Sequoia is now pretty much out of business, and it appears that only a few more Falco are every going to be built. The plans are now in the public domain though.

Now you've gone an' done it.

I downloaded the plans and construction manual...guess that's my week ruined.

Thanks for the pilot report. BTW: Did you mean you were an F-4 driver or that was what an F-4 pilot told you? Just curious.

 Even if I don't ever build/own a Falco I should at least fly it once. However...

Spitfire/Mustang/Lightning (English Electric) are the next dream flights on my very non-moustachian bucket list.

Six is having problems adjusting to his clone status.

Faraday

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2015, 09:34:48 AM »
Why is no one talking about Sport Pilot, Ultralights, or building something a good bit less expensive?

I'm thinking of stuff like Zenith (I'm building a 601HDS) or a Sonex (or on the Ultralight side, maybe a Belite)

At Oshkosh a couple years ago (last time I went), EAA had a big tent on the pavilion featuring "low cost rides" and it was remarkable. There was some actually very nice planes being featured in that tent, and at least two electric powered aircraft were on display: the one being developed by the Sonex folks and another that was the sailplane with the electric motor on a swivel post that drops back down in the fuselage....
FIRE in 2020.

brainfart

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2015, 10:46:53 AM »
ASSO V or its commercial kit version Pioneer 300. I've seen several of those being built in Europe and participated a little in building one. Looks like the Falco, carries two and can be powered with a Rotax 912. They are in the LSA category (or its ultralight equivalent in Europe). Fast, retractable gear, wood construction very similar if not identical to the Falco. And even affordable if you built it yourself.

I'm not quite up to date on awesome, light, inexpensive to operate aircraft, but the MCR01 used to be my favorite. Very fast, takes off like a rocket, flies like a Cirrus (in good weather...). This thing has been flown around the earth! Went to see DynAero's old facility once, before they moved.
42miles/gallon with a top speed of over 300km/hr with the basic 80hp engine, so it's almost mustachian. Wings can be detached by one person, and it an be stored in a garage. Not cheap if you buy one brand new though!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyn%27A%C3%A9ro_MCR01
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mcr01

Cessna152

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2015, 11:23:29 AM »
Want to know how to become a millionaire in aviation?

Start as a billionaire.


Love flying, but unless you make it a career, it will not save you or make you any money. Agreed with the other posts regarding FI allowing you to reach dreams. One of my retirement plans includes owning a grass strip in my back yard to bring my cessna in and out of.

Syonyk

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2015, 11:56:23 AM »
Why is no one talking about Sport Pilot, Ultralights, or building something a good bit less expensive?

Sport Pilot is very limiting, and a good bit of the joy of flying is being able to go places.
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Exflyboy

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2015, 02:13:01 PM »
Why is no one talking about Sport Pilot, Ultralights, or building something a good bit less expensive?

I'm thinking of stuff like Zenith (I'm building a 601HDS) or a Sonex (or on the Ultralight side, maybe a Belite)

At Oshkosh a couple years ago (last time I went), EAA had a big tent on the pavilion featuring "low cost rides" and it was remarkable. There was some actually very nice planes being featured in that tent, and at least two electric powered aircraft were on display: the one being developed by the Sonex folks and another that was the sailplane with the electric motor on a swivel post that drops back down in the fuselage....

The first airplane I built was a 601HDS.

Then I built the RV7a after that.

UnleashHell

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2015, 02:37:59 PM »


Spitfire/Mustang/Lightning (English Electric) are the next dream flights on my very non-moustachian bucket list.
a few years ago (quite a few) i came this close (holds thumb and finger almost together) to getting a flight in the two seater lightning at Binbrook. sooooo near.
I heard that Thundercity in South Africa were still doing flights a few years ago but had shut down - anyone else got one?
amazing plane.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 02:48:55 PM by UnleashHell »
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RyanAtTanagra

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2015, 02:46:50 PM »
I don't know a single person who has died in automobile, but I know at least 8 acquaintance who've bought the farm in general aviation planes.

Is there a lot information on the top causes of accidents?  For motorcycling there's the Hurt report which provides good information on what to do/not to do to avoid being a statistic.  For an inherently dangerous activity it helped me feel like I could mitigate a lot of the risks and at least be safer than average.  It's been infinitely more useful than all the anecdotal reports you hear non-stop from others and on the news.  For aviation I found this:

Quote
The Top 10 Leading Causes of Fatal General Aviation Accidents 2001-2011
1.     Loss of Control Inflight
2.     Controlled Flight Into Terrain
3.     System Component Failure Powerplant
4.     Low Altitude Operations
5.     Unknown or Undetermined
6.     Other
7.     Fuel Related
8.     System Component Failure Non-Powerplant
9.     Midair Collisions
10.  Windshear or Thunderstorm

But for instance what's the most common cause for loss of control or for powerplant failure, to avoid those?

Syonyk

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2015, 03:04:21 PM »
Most common cause of loss of control: A VFR rated pilot flying into clouds.

Most common reason for loss of power: Running out of fuel.

:)
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Rightflyer

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2015, 09:12:02 AM »

Is there a lot information on the top causes of accidents?  For motorcycling there's the Hurt report which provides good information on what to do/not to do to avoid being a statistic.  For an inherently dangerous activity it helped me feel like I could mitigate a lot of the risks and at least be safer than average.  It's been infinitely more useful than all the anecdotal reports you hear non-stop from others and on the news. 

But for instance what's the most common cause for loss of control or for powerplant failure, to avoid those?

Aviation safety is a well-studied topic with a huge body of work done by some very smart people. It is, like all complicated matters, difficult to distil into a 10 second sound bite. However...

The answers to your question lie in the axiom "Superior pilots are those who use superior planning to avoid having to use their superior piloting skills."

Deciphering that axiom leads to one overriding tenet. Airmanship.

Practicing exceptional airmanship with a philosophy of constant improvement will mitigate all aviation risks.

Note 1: I Googled "airmanship" and got some excellent hits explaining the above at great length.

Ex:www.recreationalflying.com/tutorials/students/airmanship.html (I don't know ho puts this out but it was well done.)

Note 2: For an even further penetration into the subject of aviation safety...search "SMS".

 
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Rightflyer

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2015, 09:20:25 AM »


Spitfire/Mustang/Lightning (English Electric) are the next dream flights on my very non-moustachian bucket list.
a few years ago (quite a few) i came this close (holds thumb and finger almost together) to getting a flight in the two seater lightning at Binbrook. sooooo near.
I heard that Thundercity in South Africa were still doing flights a few years ago but had shut down - anyone else got one?
amazing plane.

Yes, I think you are right about the guys in SA. I'm not sure if there are any Lightnings even flying anymore are there?.

Sorry to hear you missed out getting a ride at Binbrook. Was that in the '80s when the RAF was still operating them there?
Six is having problems adjusting to his clone status.

clifp

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2015, 04:28:59 AM »
Most common cause of loss of control: A VFR rated pilot flying into clouds.

Most common reason for loss of power: Running out of fuel.

:)

I think both this answer and Rightflyers are exactly right. General Aviation can be pretty safe activity.  However it requires a lot of discipline (which quite frankly I lack.).

To give you a concrete example. When you are learning to fly almost all flight instructors give you a comprehensive check list of what steps to take before you take off.
A very abbreviate check list is
Get a weather briefing
 Calculate the distance and fuel consumption for your destination airport
Do the same for your alternative airport
Check the maintenance records of the aircraft
Do a weight and balance calculation
file a flight plan
perform a pretty extensive pre flight inspection of your aircraft.

I know I followed the checklist perfectly for the first 12 or so cross country flights I made.

Now imagine if everytime you were suppose to drive your car that you physically checked the oil, measure how much gas was in the tank, checked the air pressure in all the tires, look for any signs of leaking fluids etc.  It would be pretty tempting for most people if they just check the car in the morning before going to work, after hard day at work to just start the car and drive home.
You are NEVER supposed to do that when flying an aircraft but in reality some people do because we are human and some of us are lazy, and I suspect most pilots take some shortcuts.

Airline and military pilots don't take shortcuts and if they do and are caught they are typically fired

The cool thing about aviation is that every accident is heavily investigated and report is generated very similar to this one on JFK Jr. fatal crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_Jr._plane_crash even if you don't have a famous last name. The JFK crash is wonderfully typically I remember reading it and thinking this could have been me.

The airplane owners and pilots association AOPA has a pretty good website on safety www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Air-Safety-Institute

Syonyk

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2015, 11:20:29 AM »
You are NEVER supposed to do that when flying an aircraft but in reality some people do because we are human and some of us are lazy, and I suspect most pilots take some shortcuts.

Relatively few accidents are caused directly by a mechanical failure.  It certainly happens, but it's really not *that* common - and if failures happen, most of them involve things that either have backups or you should be able to fly without.

A huge killer is VFR pilots in conditions they simply are not trained to handle.  You can legally fly VFR in places that are, for all practical purposes, IFR ("in the clouds/loss of horizon reference.").  I'm legal, as a VFR pilot, to fly over New Mexico at night, with no moon.  I would never consider doing so.  It's much closer to IFR flight than VFR, because there's no horizon reference, and the ones there are aren't level (lots of mountains/slopes/etc).  The same is true of, say, 10k ft over Iowa on a hazy summer afternoon - you pretty much lose the horizon into the haze.  Legal?  Yeah.  Wise?  Probably not.  Reasons I intend to get my instrument ticket when I start flying again - I just feel more comfortable with the option.

Quote
Airline and military pilots don't take shortcuts and if they do and are caught they are typically fired

... I'm pretty sure airline preflight checks are a whole lot closer to "Kick the tires, light the fires" than you think - those planes are so well instrumented and sensored that they'll tell you something is wrong long, long before you could tell yourself.

But NTSB reports are great, great reading for pilots.  It's a lot better to learn from someone else's mistakes than to make the yourself.
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Spork

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2015, 11:35:29 AM »

Relatively few accidents are caused directly by a mechanical failure.  It certainly happens, but it's really not *that* common - and if failures happen, most of them involve things that either have backups or you should be able to fly without.


I am pretty sure your statement is correct... but I am a pretty low time pilot and I've had 2 pretty scary mechanical failures.  Neither resulted in anything even remotely bad.  But both had huge potential to be pretty awful.
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Syonyk

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2015, 12:02:31 PM »
You're making my point for me. Most mechanical failures do not result in a crash.

Are they things a better preflight world have caught? There are some things you cannot easily inspect.

As long as the controls are attached and moving freely, and the plane isn't leaking a lot of fuel, you're good. Other stuff is good to know but shouldn't be a huge safety of flight issue.
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Spork

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2015, 02:40:54 PM »
You're making my point for me. Most mechanical failures do not result in a crash.

Are they things a better preflight world have caught? There are some things you cannot easily inspect.

As long as the controls are attached and moving freely, and the plane isn't leaking a lot of fuel, you're good. Other stuff is good to know but shouldn't be a huge safety of flight issue.

No, preflight wouldn't have caught it.
#1: the butterfly inside the carburettor came loose, resulting in SEVERE loss (and non-controllability) of power and inability to maintain altitude.  I was a student pilot and was (fortunately) #1 in the pattern on downwind.  I just made a close in base leg and easily made the runway.  Had I not been in the pattern, I would have been in a farmer's back yard.

#2: I had just done run-up at a super busy metropolitan airport.  Everything fine.  I was cleared for immediate take off.  When I gave it a little fuel to pull onto the runway, it died.  No restart.  Had to be towed back.  I don't remember the exact cause, but it suddenly wasn't getting fuel to the carb.  Had I been 1 minute quicker on taxi out... I would have been SOL.  There is absolutely no place around that airport to put it down safely.

Like I said: I still believe your original statement.  My anecdotal evidence is not enough to change my own mind.
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clifp

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2015, 11:15:18 PM »
[ble with the option.

Quote
Airline and military pilots don't take shortcuts and if they do and are caught they are typically fired

... I'm pretty sure airline preflight checks are a whole lot closer to "Kick the tires, light the fires" than you think - those planes are so well instrumented and sensored that they'll tell you something is wrong long, long before you could tell yourself.

But NTSB reports are great, great reading for pilots.  It's a lot better to learn from someone else's mistakes than to make the yourself.

Yes from the pilots view they aren't particular extensive. The big difference is that both military and commercial planes have a dedicated ground crew, and if something goes wrong the crew chief hears about. I do agree that its primarily pilot error is by far the biggest cause of accidents.  But is running out of fuel is pretty common, and while it is not strictly a mechanical failure, physically checking the fuel tank is something which you should do as private pilot but would never do with a car.

BlueMR2

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Re: private pilots and mustachianism?
« Reply #69 on: August 09, 2015, 11:17:33 AM »
You're making my point for me. Most mechanical failures do not result in a crash.

TL;DR:

Agreed. 

As far as mustacian, I've done trips cheaper by air than the would have been by car, but it's rare and doesn't included the training expense nor the maintenance fees (I've been in a club most of my time).  I'm currently dropping the club and going rental as it's cheaper for the limited number of flight hours I do now (and I just do a little for fun, I no longer take trips anywhere, travel has gotten boring for me).

Long version:

Over the decade and 300 hours I've been flying (and roughly a dozen different airplanes), just off the top of my head right now I've had (and obviously none of them fatal, not even an off airport landing yet):

- Carb heat arm snap off (caught at runup).
- Carb heat cable fall off (found after flight, glad we didn't end up needing carb heat...)
- Runaway autopilot, but it could be overridden with control input (albeit heavy, and at first I thought I had a flight surface failure).
- Multiple autopilot failures where it simply stopped working and/or decided to just make 2 minute turns in one direction instead of tracking.  I've now reached the point where I simply never use autopilots.  I have zero faith in them.
- Radio failure.
- Vacuum pump failures.
- Standby electric AI failure (on the same flight as a vacuum pump failure, sigh, luckily we *also* had a standby engine vacuum system we could engage, but that requires a power reduction, plus we were VFR anyways).
- Gascolater line failure (leaking gas in the engine compartment).
- Primer pump line failure (luckily we were near the airport and descending when it happened.  Smelled like a refinery and we were afraid to cycle and electrics/operate the radio).  Did not waste any time on that landing!
- Muffler failure (came apart internally, resulting in a partial blockage and loss of power)
- Multiple FADEC failures resulting in misfires, engine roughness, loss of power.
- 2 instances of total GPS failures.
- Multiple landing gear failures (including on my AMEL check ride, yes, it was a real failure, not DPE induced!).  Both on retraction and extension at various times.  Always got them down eventually, but it was irritating every time it happened.  One time wasn't able to complete the retraction, circled around, landed, found out a brake hose had popped out of the retaining bracket and gotten into the scissors for the gear!  That *could* have ended up in a bent airplane as we were flying out of small field were working brakes were important...

I've only declared an emergency once, and that was the runaway autopilot issue.  It was so surprising (it wanted to roll the airplane left) and took so much force to override that I seriously considered landing in a field as I thought the airplane had a structural or flight control failure.  After figuring out that flying slower made it worse, and that it wasn't getting worse on it's own at speed, I dropped the field landing idea and opted for a straight in, no flaps, fast landing at a paved airport.  I was already on an IFR flight plan, so ATC was right there for me and even called the airport on the phone to let them know.

I've also twice very nearly been in mid-air collisions (that I'm aware of).  First time I only had about 5 hours as a student and the CFI practically jumped up in his seat, grabbed the controls, and threw us into a very violent turn to avoid an airplane that came right out of the Sun and we didn't see.  Apparently also didn't see us somehow...  Second time, I was on my first solo IFR trip, taking an airplane down to a shop for a routine static/pitot check.  ATC "recommended" an immediate climb due to a non-coordinated traffic conflict.  Since I was in IMC, I trusted them, pulled hard, firewalled the throttle (it was a thick hazy soup of IMC, so there was a smidge of visibility vs the total cotton ball) and looked out and down just in time to see a quick flash of a twin going the exact opposite direction, exactly where I would have been...  I could have thrown a rock and hit them...  You'd think by the time you learn to fly a twin you'd be smart enough to a) have an IFR flight plan in IMC and b) not fly at IFR altitudes without talking to anybody...  Sheesh.