Author Topic: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?  (Read 10532 times)

Bracken_Joy

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Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« on: November 19, 2016, 03:52:52 PM »
Well hello fine mustachians. We bought a house. This house was built in 1995. Still in this house, fine and original, are the dishwasher and range/oven. I looked them up by serial number and they are, in fact, 21 years old. However, they seem to work just fine. Yes, the oven has some hot spots, and the control panel of the dishwasher is a bit cracked, but they seem perfectly serviceable for now. So my question is this:

-Do we take advantage of the black friday appliance sales going on right now and replace these items now, or wait until they kick the bucket and hope we find good prices then?
Potential points for consideration:
-We cook from scratch, at home, daily. Full meals. Things get heavy use.
-Current stove is electric. Husband is an electrical engineer who loves the idea of induction- I'm not sure I love the price point or the inability to toast tortillas, but bringing rice to a boil in less than 15 minutes would be a welcome change.

We obviously have the cash to buy these outright, no hair on fire consumer debt or anything crazy. Would not wipe out our e-fund to do this.

Follow up question:
Fridge is from 2007. Amana brand, side by side style which makes fridge arrangement awful. I hate this fridge. Am I justified in wanting to swap it out at the same time if I pull the trigger on the other items?

Help. I have a hard time spending money unless I vitally have to, and sometimes this makes me penny wise and pound foolish. Thanks!

Syonyk

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2016, 04:14:44 PM »
I can't say I'd replace something that's working perfectly, short of an ancient furnace or something (for efficiency gains).

An induction stove will be a bit more efficient, but almost certainly not nearly enough to make up the purchase cost.  And if the dishwasher still works, and gets things clean, why replace it?

I'd wait until they need some major repair before replacing kitchen stuff like that.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2016, 04:17:48 PM »
I can't say I'd replace something that's working perfectly, short of an ancient furnace or something (for efficiency gains).

An induction stove will be a bit more efficient, but almost certainly not nearly enough to make up the purchase cost.  And if the dishwasher still works, and gets things clean, why replace it?

I'd wait until they need some major repair before replacing kitchen stuff like that.

Well, my worry is that it'll break in a sale "off season" and we'll end up paying way more than we would have otherwise. That, and we have hardwood floors and my fear scenario is the dishwasher dying by exploding water everywhere. I know new appliances don't take away this possibility, but it would seem to make it less likely? I'm just wondering if I'm working on "borrowed time" here.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2016, 04:21:46 PM »
I will take the opposite side of that.. I would replace them. There are some pretty unbelievable deals out there right now and maybe they will? maybe they wont last another year and in the meantime you will not only get a good price, you will save on efficiency and  have better tools for what you like to do. I know where Syonk is coming from but the deals this year are really enticing.

Syonyk

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2016, 04:53:12 PM »
Well, my worry is that it'll break in a sale "off season" and we'll end up paying way more than we would have otherwise.

An electric stove or oven is a pretty simple device.  They don't generally quit all at once, either - it's likely that a failure will involve one burner or a pair of burners, not the whole stove at once.

If you've decided that you want to replace them and are just looking for an excuse, sure, "stuff on sale now" is as good an excuse as any.  But I don't see any reason to believe that because it's old enough to drink, it's going to randomly up and fail now.  Unless you start pouring whiskey down the control panel...

I mean, it's some triacs and resistors.

Quote
That, and we have hardwood floors and my fear scenario is the dishwasher dying by exploding water everywhere.

"Insurance." :p  But, really, an electrical failure is far more likely in a dishwasher.  Or a motor issue.  The plumbing isn't really subject to anything that stressful.

Quote
I know new appliances don't take away this possibility, but it would seem to make it less likely? I'm just wondering if I'm working on "borrowed time" here.

*shrug* If it's not broken, don't fix it.  Unless you're an engineer.  Then, if it's not broken, fix it until it is.

I wouldn't replace the stuff on grounds of "But it might fail!"  However, if you want to replace them anyway, you're right that this is a good time of year for it.

Anatidae V

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2016, 11:08:58 PM »
Have you done a bunch of research and know exactly which ones you'll get? Since you're in a new-to-you house, more new stuff is tempting, but I'd try holding off until next year just so you really appreciate the new stuff when it arrives.

ZiziPB

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 04:21:11 AM »
Sounds to me like you what you really want is an upgrade, as there doesn't seem to be a real need to replace at this point.  Nothing wrong with that as long as you decide that that is what you really want.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2016, 04:32:56 AM »
Sounds to me like you what you really want is an upgrade, as there doesn't seem to be a real need to replace at this point.  Nothing wrong with that as long as you decide that that is what you really want.

This.  If the broken pieces are reducing the joy in your life, get that shit out of there.

The only caveat with the 'Black Friday Sale' plan - not all Black Friday sales are the best of the year. If it were me, I would decide to replace them next year, get Black Friday Prices and watch for better deals throughout next year. If none pop up, then get them next Thanksgiving. But you may be able to get a better deal at another point throughout the year.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2016, 05:43:40 AM »
Do you have Boxing Day sales?  You could check Black Friday prices and then shop on Boxing Day if the prices are as good or better.

I would be changing the fridge first.  2007 is old enough that the new ones should be much more energy efficient.

Le Poisson

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2016, 06:01:38 AM »
My personal take... this is facepunch worthy. If the fridge craps out and no sale is on, there are $50 fridges on CL that will hold you over until the right sale comes up.

If you are concerned with the dw leaking you are allowed to call your insurance company to see what coverage you have, or to install a pan under it. A fridge ice maker is more likely to cause a flood though.

In all seriousness, I would wait until at least one appliance craps out, then buy the new tech available at that time. Our appliances are much older than what you have.

aj_yooper

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2016, 06:13:08 AM »
Your stove and dishwasher are near the breaking point; I would replace them, especially as you use them a lot.  Our dishwasher failed on our hardwood floor and that is not a good thing at all; we have had a fridge failure and that is also a big pain.   Our next electric stove will be induction as they are a major improvement in quickness and the kitchen will not be as hot as it would from a plain jane electric.  The fridge is a tossup as it has considerable usable life, but I hear you on functionality for cooking.  I would go for all three as sometimes there are even better deals for a full redo.


Mongoose

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2016, 06:37:02 AM »
I'm going to go with not replacing until they break. IME, the newer stuff isn't built as sturdy as it once was. And newer is not a guarantee of long service (as a point, we just had to repair a 3 year old fridge). We did replace a 40 year old stove a year after we moved in, but only because it had 2 working burners and the oven was no longer hot enough to bake in (we scratch cook everything at home too).

If I were you, I would set aside the money and use them until you get all the good out of them. Currently we are sucking the life out of a car with 360k miles again. You can make some money in interest on your replacement-stash in the meantime.

Cranky

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2016, 06:42:28 AM »
Appliances go on sale ALL the time. Black Friday appliance sales are not better than the 50 other sales that Lowe's or Home Depot will run.

There's nothing wrong with replacing appliances because they are getting old or creaky, but you will not miss the Sale of the Century because you didn't do it this week.

Decide what features you want, what brand you want, and how much you are willing to pay.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2016, 06:43:32 AM »
Appliances go on sale ALL the time. Black Friday appliance sales are not better than the 50 other sales that Lowe's or Home Depot will run.

There's nothing wrong with replacing appliances because they are getting old or creaky, but you will not miss the Sale of the Century because you didn't do it this week.

Decide what features you want, what brand you want, and how much you are willing to pay.

Can we vote? I'd love to vicariously experience the purchase of black stainless steel. :D

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2016, 07:57:15 AM »
Thank you guys for all the feedback. This is definitely not a settled thing. Husband leans toward going ahead with it, but he's really excited about the idea of an induction range, and he grew up with nice things, so cracked and yellowing items are more of an issue for him than me I think. (Frankly, I'm still pretty tickled we have a dishwasher period, haha). Also, I think he feels like this is a 'reward'. We bought a house for $150k less than we were approved for by the bank so that we could easily afford it on one salary. And definitely came in with the plan of doing some cosmetic renovations on the place (bought it Aug). We replaced light fixtures and repainted 2 rooms, and that's been it. So I can see where he might feel like I'm the one who is changing the "game plan". We definitely planned on switching out to gas when we got the house- the induction was a discussion that arose since then, because the new units don't make sound the way some of the old ones did, which was my worry in the first place.

Appliances go on sale ALL the time. Black Friday appliance sales are not better than the 50 other sales that Lowe's or Home Depot will run.

There's nothing wrong with replacing appliances because they are getting old or creaky, but you will not miss the Sale of the Century because you didn't do it this week.

Decide what features you want, what brand you want, and how much you are willing to pay.

Can we vote? I'd love to vicariously experience the purchase of black stainless steel. :D

Haha, the black stainless is really quite beautiful isn't it? I'm not a big fan of standard stainless, but that's what we would upgrade to most likely- definitely the biggest selection currently. Everything right now is all white, which I actually like a fair bit, but appliance choices are more limited in it right now since it's not trendy. Also, the induction units only come in stainless.

Interesting that some people have dishwashers and range/ovens that are so much older. I'm trying to find the balancing act of "nice things". A lot of the places I've lived have been rough on the appliance front- a couple mini fridges, for one, but an oven that something fell on so the door was so bent heat escaped and all the burners tilted toward the center, etc. Where my parents lived when I was in high school the burner plates were about 30-35 year old and they started a fire at one point. And their dishwasher backed up and flooded the house pretty badly at one point. All this to say, I don't have a good reference point for how quickly things go downhill, but I've had bad appliances and it sucks. So I guess my big fear is they'll go bad fast.

As for pricing, we did look at the labor day sales and they were deeply lackluster. These seems far more enticing. Top rated consumer reports fridge is normally $1900, currently $950, and you get a bulk discount of $50 off per appliance bought with free delivery installation, too. Stove... if we did induction, they are SPENDY, but the one that is really well rated is normally $3500 and is currently $2200. Their 'high performance' dishwashers right now are like $500, but they have ones as cheap as $250 that look to be good items (although those ones don't qualify for the free instal, of course, mutter mutter). Anyway, from what I've seen helping my parents and my ILs replace far too many appliances, these are pretty solid prices right now.

One way or another, we need to make a choice on what we're doing right now because the microwave is a hazard. Cracking door held together with glue, power surges, etc. Oh, and also there was a recall on it (due to shorting and starting fires) that the guy covered by our home warranty said "no longer has a fix because the units are too old". But since the microwave still works and shows no *signs* of starting a fire, the home warranty won't recover a replacement. *grumpy face* Anyway, we have to replace the microwave, and I need to decide what the hell the longterm plan is with the rest of the appliances so I know whether to do it in white or SS. (Microwaves do have quite a selection, it turns out). We can get a good one for $150 on this sale.

Have you done a bunch of research and know exactly which ones you'll get? Since you're in a new-to-you house, more new stuff is tempting, but I'd try holding off until next year just so you really appreciate the new stuff when it arrives.

Why but of course. As soon as the sales started being announced and we knew we were planning to replace the microwave, spreadsheets were being made. Price, reliability, aesthetic. Features are pretty secondary to us- except that we rate it as a positive if a fridge doesn't have an external water/ice dispenser. Among many other issues, we take care of the ILs dog and she likes to get herself ice cubes. I know new ones have a lock out feature, but I still don't like 'em much.

My personal take... this is facepunch worthy. If the fridge craps out and no sale is on, there are $50 fridges on CL that will hold you over until the right sale comes up.

If you are concerned with the dw leaking you are allowed to call your insurance company to see what coverage you have, or to install a pan under it. A fridge ice maker is more likely to cause a flood though.

In all seriousness, I would wait until at least one appliance craps out, then buy the new tech available at that time. Our appliances are much older than what you have.

Yeah, that's when the fridge was replaced and this hardwood was installed... 2 POs ago, their fridge flooded the house and they redid a ton of the flooring. Well hello fear scenario, how are you today? Lady was awesome though, she kept every receipt and record ever for the house.



Follow up question- any benefit on preemptively replacing a 21 year old water heater? We added a jacket, although it didn't have a ton of warmth to the touch to begin with. We have to set the temp at the highest to get a good temp of water out of it, but it heats the tank pretty quickly and seems to have no issues on that front. *knock on wood* no apparent leaks. It's in the garage on a stand on a concrete floor, so unlikely to cause major damage unless it goes unnoticed.
No notable sales on them right now, hence not being included in my initial question, but now I'm wondering after doing some reading online.

aj_yooper

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2016, 08:11:11 AM »
I would guess that a 21 year old water heater is way past its prime.  Have you considered an on demand unit in your garage instead?  It could easily be vented outside and may be more cost effective in the longer term.

I'm thrifty, but I don't like calamities.  Water on hardwood floors can cause warping and cupping that will involve expensive fixes; insurance always has deductibles. 


Le Poisson

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2016, 08:13:06 AM »
RE: water heater

Are hereby on city water or a well, and what fuel?

When we were on well water, the WH was old and nearly full of sediments. We tried draining it and muddy sand came out. We replaced it.

If you have an electric WH you should be able to just replace the element and or thermostat fairly easy and cheap as a DIY. Google it up.

Check the unit for rust as well. Older units sometimes have the bottom rust out. Not something i experienced, so no advice what to look for.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2016, 08:26:17 AM »
RE: water heater

Are hereby on city water or a well, and what fuel?

When we were on well water, the WH was old and nearly full of sediments. We tried draining it and muddy sand came out. We replaced it.

If you have an electric WH you should be able to just replace the element and or thermostat fairly easy and cheap as a DIY. Google it up.

Check the unit for rust as well. Older units sometimes have the bottom rust out. Not something i experienced, so no advice what to look for.

Thanks for the tips on the trouble shooting. It's gas, and we're on city. I still need to drain it (no abuse! it's on the to do list lol... I know, I know, I'll do it today. I guess this'll give us more to go on).

We also have a 21yr old gas furnace, but we've had an HVAC guy out since the whole system was having issues before... no apparent issues with the furnace. Plus it's primarily the heat pump, the furnace is our auxiliary heat. Thanks to our fancypants new thermostat (not only are all the HVAC issues resolved) but we can see how often it runs- only about 15min on very cold mornings right now. Was running daily last month when the heat pump was tripping though.

Syonyk

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2016, 09:42:15 AM »
If you're on a dual fuel system, furnace efficiency only barely matters. :)

Dicey

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2016, 09:51:27 AM »
We bought our then seven-year-old, custom-built clown house on a short sale three years ago. It's full of things we'd never otherwise spend money on. I'll share a few of our experiences. Mind you, these are FWP's and I am NOT complaining, just sharing in hopes of helping our favorite plant make an important decision. Okay, where to begin...

Last Christmas, the week before our annual Open House/Cookie Party/Food Drive, the spendy Dacor stove/oven stopped heating. DH quickly ordered and replaced the element. Yeah, that wasn't the problem. He ordered a new circuit board, which was the problem. The replacement of that was something the mfr. apparently never expected a layperson to replace. DH had to literally dismantle the entire cook top to get to the part. It required specialized tools, which DH fortunately happened to have. The parts alone cost over $350, and he bought them online, so cheaper than through a repair service. I believe this stove carries a $7500 price tag new, so WTF? Shouldn't it last forever for that price?

Next, the built-in microwave's control panel started getting wonky. It was "too old" to get a new part, and we weren't sure it would solve the problem, so we looked into replacing it. Discontinued. The new model doesn't match the existing appliances. Oh, and it was $1400!! After extensive internet research, DH found a new, in box version of our old model for "only" $625, plus a three-hour round trip to pick it up last weekend.

On Friday, since we were hosting a party on Saturday night, we decided to break down and turn the heat on, as the thermostat read 60 degrees. Your guessed it - no heat. No idea what this is going to cost. (My solution was to bake all afternoon, crank up a space heater and put a crackling log fireplace DVD on the TV. All of which somehow worked, but I'm sure the meter was spinning.)

Okay, conclusions, based on all of the above: 1). Shit is always going to break. New appliances will all give up at different times, and generally not convenient ones at that. 2). If you're ever going to sell this house, mis-matched appliances have a negative effect. 3). Buying all-new appliances now doesn't guarantee that they will all still be working when it's time to sell.

So, only do it to please yourselves. This is your kitchen, you spend a lot of time in it. It is not unreasonable to install good equipment. You can afford it, and you will use it and enjoy it thousands of times in the years to come. My caution would be to do the research and don't buy on price alone. Get the features that are important to you. You will notice their absence long after you've forgotten how much you paid for the appliances.

Unless it's brand new, replace the disposal while you're at it. And replace the water supply lines for all the sinks and toilets too. They are inexpensive (buy good ones) and easy to replace, but can cause big trouble when they fail.

Finally, the water heater. It's time for a new one, as failures can cause spectacular damage. A new one of any type is sure to be more energy efficient.

Cranky

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2016, 11:24:10 AM »
I'd replace the water heater pronto. Waking up to a flood and no hot water sucks.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2016, 11:34:52 AM »
Diane C, I should probably start sending you PMs any time I have a house question. Your advice is always really well balanced and is presented very accessibly for how I think. I actually credit you heavily with our house choice based on a long post you wrote up about the house buying process. Which I have also shared with a couple friends who are buying. So thank you for that!

Random aside- I was wrong on two dates. The fridge is 09, instead of 07 I think. (It's written 07/09, and I'm not sure if Amana is a US brand, so I don't know if it MM/YY or YY/MM, lol). And our microwave is an '00 not an '07. No idea why I thought it was 07. So yeah, the 16 year old microwave needing replaced badly is not too surprising...

We visually inspected the hot water heater. No rust underneath, but the whole thing has this taupe colored metal around it, and I think there's an internal tank to that, which I *cannot* see directly. So hard to say there's no rust at all on that front, but it certainly appears to be in good shape from the outside.

Le Poisson

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2016, 01:31:44 PM »
If it's in good garage, how much damage would there be if it did leak? Are there things on the floor you would lose? Would the garage just be a skating rink/puddle for a couples days? Would the water just run outside harmlessly?

My decision would mostly be based on the most likely of those scenarios. There is likelihood of failure, and then there is failure risk, as in will it matter if the WH leaks, or will the water just go out.

backyardfeast

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2016, 01:53:21 PM »
I would replace the water heater.  That is OOOOOLLLDD!  They are not expensive and are way more efficient these days.  We replaced a 15 year old one recently and noticed a real drop in our energy use (and we had the thermal jacket, etc on the old one too).  I'm actually surprised that your insurer didn't ask questions about your water heater.  They usually have a sticker with the "end date" that the insurer asks about (here, anyway).  This is not to say that it will suddenly stop working, and as Prospector says, the risk from something happening is pretty low.  But it is likely way past it's prime in terms of functionality.

The other appliances are a tough call (well except the microwave--that sounds dangerous!); I'm with Diane C. on those.  We replaced ours one at a time, each winter when the sale prices were at their best.  But we had more limited funds; if you have the funds and know that replacement is the plan, prices now will be as good as they ever will be, so there's no real benefit to waiting, either.  If you are trying to decide between spending the money now vs not spending the money unless you have to, that's one thing.  But if you're going to spend the money, then it's probably just a matter of accepting that.

Prospector is right, though, that appliances are easy and cheap to pick up used anytime, anywhere.  So the decision doesn't need to be based on what-if-this-breaks.  If major damage happens, it happens.  Otherwise, you wash dishes by hand, cook over the camp stove or grill, buy ice and throw the fridge contents in a cooler (same as in a power outage) for a few days.  Don't worry over-much about the possible catastrophes.

We just bought a new house and will have to buy new appliances again.  I am NOT looking forward to it at all.  Sigh.

humbleMouse

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2016, 03:37:16 PM »
Craigslist these items and get a better deal than black friday

Trudie

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2016, 06:05:32 PM »
I have bisque appliances and it sounds like the dishwasher is about ready to crap out.  When it does, I will replace it with black/stainless steel and gradually replace the other pieces until they match.  My strategy will be a package deal from Costco.

Also, to replace "one-off" items, never underestimate scratch and dent or floor models.  We've always found good deals this way

Dicey

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2016, 08:12:10 PM »
I have bisque appliances and it sounds like the dishwasher is about ready to crap out.  When it does, I will replace it with black/stainless steel and gradually replace the other pieces until they match.
+
My strategy will be a package deal from Costco.

This seems to be a total contradiction.  Can you elaborate on your strategy, please?

FWIW, I've always been a fan of bisque appliances and am sad to see that they're "out".

pbkmaine

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2016, 08:20:18 PM »
I have bisque appliances and it sounds like the dishwasher is about ready to crap out.  When it does, I will replace it with black/stainless steel and gradually replace the other pieces until they match.
+
My strategy will be a package deal from Costco.

This seems to be a total contradiction.  Can you elaborate on your strategy, please?

FWIW, I've always been a fan of bisque appliances and am sad to see that they're "out".

I was just thinking if I were equipping rental properties I would go with bisque, since there seem to be so many gently used ones floating around for cheap.

tomorrowsomewherenew

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2016, 02:57:32 PM »
We are in a house of similar age and replaced ours. Sort of. What I did was go on Craigslist to find high end appliances that are only a few years old. I got an almost $3,000 fridge for $500. A $1700 dishwasher for $300. A lot of people with high end appliances in their homes also upgrade to even more insane appliances. I took them off their hands.

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2016, 03:39:56 PM »
Black Friday sales are usually fake.

Scratch-and-dent stores, however, have real bargains all year round. As does Craigslist. (Bonus: Buying and selling on Craigslist allows you to, in theory, change styles, swapping used for used, at no net cost)

I'd say, if it ain't broke, don' fix it. The dishwasher and stove might last another 10-15 years.  You already paid for them with the purchase of the house. This is a luxury decision, and we should talk you out of it. The fridge has 20-30 years of life left in it. Seriously.

The water heater, on the other hand, should have only lasted 10 years. Prepare for its replacement, but also drive it till it dies. If it goes another 3 years, your next water heater will last that much longer.

Cranky

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2016, 03:48:28 PM »
I'm more cautious about the high-end appliance aspect of this question... in general, I think that the more features something has, the more like it is to malfunction, and the more expensive it will be to upgrade.

You can buy mid-range black/stainless appliances. There's a difference between "attractive' and "high-end".

Spork

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2016, 04:33:33 PM »
I'm late to the question but...  I assure you newer IS NOT better.  If I were replacing either, I might look towards older/vintage.  Anything with a circuit board has a tendency to fail quickly and permanently.  (By permanently I mean: the fix costs enough that you might as well replace.)

We put in a brand new dishwasher when we built out house in 2012.  It was mid to high end.  I replaced it this year.  We had a bunch of out of town guests coming or I would have spent more time gleaning craigslist for something that was early 80s or before.

Don't be fooled by the shiny new appliance thing.  There's a whole subculture of antique stove/refrigerator/washer/dryer aficionados out there.  In many cases the older ones will last you until you croak.

Lanthiriel

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2016, 06:19:30 PM »
I would also replace the hot water heater ASAP. I didn't notice when we bought our house that our 21-year old water heater was spitting out sediment through our taps. It stained the grout in the shower pretty bad, which I have cleaned with everything I could think of resulting in it now being crumbly AND brown. (Obviously I need to get around to regrouting at some point.) When we finally replaced the hot water heater, the sediment built up so bad when we shut off the water that it clogged the stopper that you pull up to switch the water to the showerhead despite attempting all the ways that Google recommended we clean it out. I had to find a new one that would go seamlessly onto my old copper pipes at a specialty plumbing store.

What I'm saying it, more could go wrong than it popping a leak.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2016, 06:38:26 PM »
I'm late to the question but...  I assure you newer IS NOT better.  If I were replacing either, I might look towards older/vintage.  Anything with a circuit board has a tendency to fail quickly and permanently.  (By permanently I mean: the fix costs enough that you might as well replace.)

We put in a brand new dishwasher when we built out house in 2012.  It was mid to high end.  I replaced it this year.  We had a bunch of out of town guests coming or I would have spent more time gleaning craigslist for something that was early 80s or before.

Don't be fooled by the shiny new appliance thing.  There's a whole subculture of antique stove/refrigerator/washer/dryer aficionados out there.  In many cases the older ones will last you until you croak.

I would caution this advice may suffer from survivorship bias. My cheaper diswahser has hummed along since '12 perfectly.  I actually want it to die because it's rather loud. Maybe i should sell it on the local classifieds site and start my own conversion to black stainless steel...

Spork

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2016, 07:19:51 AM »
I'm late to the question but...  I assure you newer IS NOT better.  If I were replacing either, I might look towards older/vintage.  Anything with a circuit board has a tendency to fail quickly and permanently.  (By permanently I mean: the fix costs enough that you might as well replace.)

We put in a brand new dishwasher when we built out house in 2012.  It was mid to high end.  I replaced it this year.  We had a bunch of out of town guests coming or I would have spent more time gleaning craigslist for something that was early 80s or before.

Don't be fooled by the shiny new appliance thing.  There's a whole subculture of antique stove/refrigerator/washer/dryer aficionados out there.  In many cases the older ones will last you until you croak.

I would caution this advice may suffer from survivorship bias. My cheaper diswahser has hummed along since '12 perfectly.  I actually want it to die because it's rather loud. Maybe i should sell it on the local classifieds site and start my own conversion to black stainless steel...

...or death bias.

It's actually happened to me twice with dishwashers... where they've lasted < 5 years.  Older appliances are solid state and are simpler.  They aren't prone to problems with over/under voltage.  A control board runs you $300-400 and is a pretty darn common failure point.  If you go older on a gas stove, you've got nothing but plumbing.  It will last forever as long as it's kept in a dry environment.

My mom bought 2 dishwashers in 50 years (and the second still works great).  She, likewise, bought 2 washers/dryers.  In that same time I've gone through multiples of each.

I would also say: every single 120v appliance needs a dedicated surge protection device.  (Including garage door openers.)

Linea_Norway

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2016, 07:30:03 AM »
I probably wouldn't bother to replace the oven. But I can so much recommend induction, that I think you should consider replacing the stove. Induction is a pleasure to use and much easier to clean than electric. I hated electric when I had it.
Bear in mind the induction might require more electricity from the kitchen. Check whether your kitchen has enough capacity in the electricity cables.

I find refrigerators (the ones that I prefer, 200cm high, with freezer and A+ or higher energy score) not quite cheap. And new ones don't seem to last as long as they used to in the past. But if you shop around, you should be able to make a pretty good deal somewhere. Even when it is not black friday. Just shop online and find the cheapest store.

The question is: do you think it is worth delaying your pension with ... weeks/months by buying this machines, which in return give you a more pleasant every day life?

Linea_Norway

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2016, 07:38:21 AM »
You could also look for a newer second hand device, especially for the oven. E.g. when we moved to another house, I decided to replace my 20 year old el cheapo microwave with a combi-oven. The idea was to buy a proper one that you can really use as a second oven. It has to be a built-in. This turned out to be really expensive. After some surfing on second hand sites, we found a good-looking one, only a few years old, for a quarter of the price of a new one. It works just fine and I am a happy person.

frugaliknowit

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2016, 07:55:03 AM »
Financially speaking:  No.  Run them to the ground or until you're totally aggravated with them.  As far as potential leaks:  Any dishwasher can leak at any time.  Usually they start out small.  Just monitor for seepage and dump it if it starts leaking. 

Crap is on sale all the time...there's always deals.

Dicey

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2016, 08:07:53 AM »

FWIW, I've always been a fan of bisque appliances and am sad to see that they're "out".
I was just thinking if I were equipping rental properties I would go with bisque, since there seem to be so many gently used ones floating around for cheap.

Our rentals are in the desert. White plastic thingies anywhere in the interior tend to yellow quickly, which is why bisque is perfect. Alas, these properties are also eight hours away from our home, which makes Internet shopping a little trickier. We buy properties that are outdated, fix them up and rent them out. A shiny new suite of appliances does tend to attract more attention and rent for better prices. Everyone wants a rental that doesn't look like one.

To add to the earlier rant about the clown house appliances: I noticed that our brand new, overpriced, hard to find MW (the only option that fits in the space and matches the existing stuff) doesn't heat as well as the old one did. I mentioned this to DH and he told me it's probably because the new model is only 900 watts. WTF? A unit that retails  for $1400 and sells on CL for $625 only puts out 900 watts? WTF KitchenAid, you assholes!

Finally, I missed this earlier:: I am tickled pink that my input has been helpful. As SS might say, permission granted to PM any time.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2016, 03:26:37 PM »
Thank you everybody for the feedback. We did opt to replace everything, because we very much wanted the induction range. But don't worry, I did it with full knowledge that I am a fancy pants conumer sucka. I also shopped around, got people to price match, got a free 5 year protection plan on everything, went with a local store on everything but the frigde, and went through with 0% 12 month financing to get $75 back (which we will *obviously* pay off immediately). We're also doing our own install on everything. So we did what we could to mitigate costs.

Also, it ended up making us money in some respects ironically. My MIL had promised us $5k for the new house and never gave it, in spite of promising multiple times she would. I guess she was waiting for a big expense she could feel a part of. So we're getting the $5k after all, which I had already written off. Not using that to justify the choice, it was a happy surprise, not motivation.

So yep, facepunch away if you'd like. I will gladly accept them.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2016, 07:05:08 PM »
Well hello fine mustachians. We bought a house. This house was built in 1995. Still in this house, fine and original, are the dishwasher and range/oven. I looked them up by serial number and they are, in fact, 21 years old. However, they seem to work just fine. Yes, the oven has some hot spots, and the control panel of the dishwasher is a bit cracked, but they seem perfectly serviceable for now.

I bought a house with set of appliances from the late 80's. 7yrs in and we've spent $40 replacing the oven element. That's it. I plan to keep them another 10yrs and see what happens.

Dicey

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #41 on: November 24, 2016, 12:07:04 AM »
No facepunches from me, just congratulations. Sometimes it's a relief just to have made the damn decision. I hope installation's a breeze.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2016, 06:03:19 AM »
Good work Bracken! Enjoy the lovely new appliances!  And pictures, of course, are requested.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2016, 07:53:43 AM »
Good work Bracken! Enjoy the lovely new appliances!  And pictures, of course, are requested.

Thanks. I likely will! Probably on my journal, but if you're curious to see before photos I posted some on PBK's style journal: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pbkmaine's-cheap-style/msg1261827/#msg1261827

BlueMR2

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #44 on: November 24, 2016, 08:35:03 AM »
I'm going to go with not replacing until they break. IME, the newer stuff isn't built as sturdy as it once was.

This where I'm sitting these days too.  Too many early failures on devices preventatively replaced while others in the family just keep chugging along with the same old appliances from way back in the day with no issues.  If a good efficiency argument can be made, I'll consider it, but otherwise I'm *generally* against doing early replacements.  With all the sales all the time, plus tons of people that do early swap out things just because they don't like the color or design anymore, there's a great market for cheap appliances year round.

aj_yooper

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2016, 04:39:26 PM »
Thanks for the feedback, Bracken_Joy! 

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2016, 10:34:43 AM »
Ugh. I went to drain the sediment from the water heater... and it won't flow nearly at all. We got like 3 drips of water. Which was clear? Oddly? I figured if it clogged the tap it would be super gritty. Anyway, I also confirmed that our water heater is indeed original to the house. Model year 1991, the energy star install cost compare was for 1994. The house was built '95.

So now we need to figure out where we're going from here with this. Sounds like it's definitely worth replacing. And we can't do the work ourselves, as it's a gas heater.

Where do I start? Recommendations? Pretty sure we want another tank, not in-line. Hard call to make but that's what we're leaning toward right now.

Spork

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2016, 11:02:17 AM »
Gas is DIY-able if you are careful.  Just test all the fittings with a 50-50 mix of dish soap and water.  It's easy to tell if they are leaking.

I always suggest that if you're buying a tank heater, make sure it has a brass drain spigot.  Often times you will open the plastic spigot to drain it and it will deform and never close again.

Be aware there are likely code changes since 1995.  If you do it yourself or hire a plumber, it will likely add some costs.

Bracken_Joy

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2016, 11:13:42 AM »
Gas is DIY-able if you are careful.  Just test all the fittings with a 50-50 mix of dish soap and water.  It's easy to tell if they are leaking.

I always suggest that if you're buying a tank heater, make sure it has a brass drain spigot.  Often times you will open the plastic spigot to drain it and it will deform and never close again.

Be aware there are likely code changes since 1995.  If you do it yourself or hire a plumber, it will likely add some costs.

It does have a brass tap, and it opened well... just nothing came out except a few dribbles of clear water. Checked with 3 different online How-Tos to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious.

Good point on the code changes. Anything in particular you can think of? Ventilation requirements or something? Seems like otherwise it would all be internal to the water heater.

Spork

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Re: Preemptively replace range/oven and dishwasher?
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2016, 11:27:33 AM »
Gas is DIY-able if you are careful.  Just test all the fittings with a 50-50 mix of dish soap and water.  It's easy to tell if they are leaking.

I always suggest that if you're buying a tank heater, make sure it has a brass drain spigot.  Often times you will open the plastic spigot to drain it and it will deform and never close again.

Be aware there are likely code changes since 1995.  If you do it yourself or hire a plumber, it will likely add some costs.

It does have a brass tap, and it opened well... just nothing came out except a few dribbles of clear water. Checked with 3 different online How-Tos to make sure I wasn't missing anything obvious.

Good point on the code changes. Anything in particular you can think of? Ventilation requirements or something? Seems like otherwise it would all be internal to the water heater.

Garage heaters (possibly others in areas where flammables might be stored) have to be elevated 18 inches off the floor for gas heaters.  This is to reduce the possibility of flames igniting spilled flammable vapors.  Often this means re-plumbing stuff because the plumbing in/out, gas, etc might have to be raised too.

If you share a wall with any finished space, you'll need a catch pan that has it's own plumbing that drains to somewhere safe (outside, to a dedicated drain, etc).  I believe there is some alternative where the catch pan can have an automatic switch that shuts off the incoming water if it senses water.  This is not nearly as nice as a drain though, because if you have a leak, you may very well dump 50 gallons of water even if the incoming water is shut off.

There may be more... these are the ones I've experienced.  I think they're both actually good ideas and for your own good, so adding these didn't bother me a bit.