Author Topic: Places most similar to hippie parts of CA but not in western fire/drought areas  (Read 2788 times)

We be free if we try

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I live in Marin County and love it - except for the housing costs, the relative lack of diversity, and the “fact” that CA is going to become ever less livable due to fires and lack of water. I love Marin’s educated culture of spirituality and hippie liberal ethos - they feel like my people, mostly.

So, looking for suggestions for US places to move, 4-5 years from now, that:
-Don’t have a lack of rain and water
-don’t have major wildfire risks
-no regular temperature extremes (115 deg. Summers and 30 degree winters are out, not a fan of snow)
-smaller towns (under 500k) or connected series of small towns, that have highly a educated, at least somewhat liberal populace.
- somewhat less expensive housing than Marin, which shouldn’t be difficult :)
- An existing culture of appreciation of spirituality. This is a difficult word choice, but I’m aiming for a broad definition that lies outside Christian church culture, and specifically appreciates that broadness. Think meditation, conscious movement, and other alternative approaches.

This last part is the clincher where I’m specifically asking for help. I’m hearing a lot about Asheville in this regard - thoughts? Other places? Oregon and Colorado are out because fire, and Santa Fe, Taos and Sedona are out due to lack of water. Feel free to argue otherwise. I love HI but it’s very far from family.


Cranky

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Well, you have to get used to snow, but we recently moved to Madison WI and it fits all your other criteria. We love it!

It reminds me of the way Boulder used to be.

reeshau

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Yes, I would say many major college towns have at least a sizable community that matches the characteristics you are looking for.

Your weather requirement rules it out, but otherwise I was going to say Ann Arbor.  Madison probably fits just as well.

You said Hawaii was too far, so I suppose Glastonbury is out, too.  But you should at least go visit there.  :)

rockeTree

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Alas California is a unique place and we are losing a lot when we lose it. Perfect weather and pleasant cities and low climate risk and a particular vibe, also cheap is a big ask. Forgive me but this idea that there are substitutes for the things we are losing through our careless indifference to the health of our planet somewhat rubs me wrong.

You can't live out west because it's drying up and on fire, and the parts of Montana and Wyoming and Colorado where that's less true are too cold. You won't like the uptight folks of the mid-atlantic or the style of religiosity in the deep south or the cold of the upper midwest or New England and the Adirondacks, all of which have their enclaves of hippie community.  Asheville isn't as cheap as it once was and the politics of the place will drive you nuts. I think you could try college towns in Appalachia (Knoxville? Maybe too hot still...Charleston WV?) but in the small towns you will never overcome being an outsider to find community. Northern Arkansas and Kentucky have some old school back to land nudist types. I bet if you joined a permaculture group you could maybe find some intentional communities in the Ozarks, but you are a long way from the lifestyle you enjoy in Marin.

Really I think we all have to accept that they way we will live in 30 years isn't the way we live now or just a subset of the nice things about the way we live now. It will be different, and maybe it will be good, but you might have to buy a bunch of blankets or otherwise change your checklist.

bloodaxe

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Take a look at Asheville, NC.


lhamo

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Olympia or Bellingham, Washington might fit the bill.  We do sometimes get smoke from fires in dryer parts of the state here along Puget Sound, but usually no more than a few days at a stretch.

startingsmall

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The thing about Asheville is that it changes A LOT once you get just a little bit out of town.

I used to live in Western NC, so we visited Asheville somewhat regularly and one of my coworkers commuted to work from Asheville. She lived in this funky little hand-built cabin on the side of a mountain that wasn't far from downtown, but she had to drive past a bunch of huge Confederate flags on her neighbor's mailboxes every time she was coming or going from her house. It was worth it to her, but may not be quite what you're expecting. The Asheville area is kind of an odd mix of hippies and rednecks.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 01:56:32 PM by startingsmall »

We be free if we try

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Thank you to all who responded. RockeTree, I hear what you’re saying and it’s true, there is mourning for what we are losing, more every year now. And I don’t know any other place like Northern CA - I’m deeply grateful for its climate and its culture. Having said that, we can find our way forward with care and respect, and try to create sustainable lives for our next 30 years. At this point, we are exploring future options, looking for places we might visit.

Lhamo, I have never been to Olympia or Bellingham, great suggestion for a visit. And we are planning to visit Asheville - we have several friends that have moved there in the last few years. I’m willing to explore further afield but it’s true that I’m quite spoiled by the weather here. I prefer heat to cold - I’d take Sedona over Ann Arbor.

Dicey

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Posting (and waving*) from the other side of the Bay to follow along.

*I know you can't see me waving - too much smoke in the air today, ugh.

HPstache

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Check out Bellingham for sure

bacchi

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Bham is expensive now and Olympia has its own climate change problems, like flooding. Both great areas though.

reeshau

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My uncle, after several year of long-term rentals around the country, moved from Santa Barbara to Beaufort, SC.  He was *not* looking for hippie culture, but both he and his wife are professional / technical turned artists.

You may also try the Research Triangle in NC.  The joke is that Cary stands for Containment Area for Retired Yankees.

Morning Glory

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Reading your post, my first thought was "30 is warm" lol. You can always put more clothes on but you can only take so many off. I'm getting tired of the below-zero stuff though.

I visited Asheville a couple months ago with the same idea. Very pretty scenery and lots of places to go hiking around the town, and the downtown was nice. I was struck, however, by the complete lack of sidewalks in any of the neighborhoods. Not very walkable at all. I did see a few people biking and walking closer to the downtown area, but overall it seemed very car-centric. Even to get to hiking areas, you pretty much have to drive. Also housing is pretty expensive compared to other towns in the region.

Knoxville is quite a bit cheaper and has similar climate, large university, etc. Also very few sidewalks. I don't know if it's just a southern thing or what. Chattanooga seemed a bit more walkable, but it's smaller. I want to check out the Raleigh-Durham area before I decide.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 03:27:45 PM by Morning Glory »

ChpBstrd

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Eureka Springs, Arkansas is a small town that is a lot quirkier than most people expect. This is a Victorian-era spa town established on the premise of magical healing waters with lots of original architecture, history, ghost stories, witch shops, outdoorsy culture, etc.

Weather: Occasionally <30, every once in a while >100. Four very distinct seasons with occasional snow in winter.
Fire Risk: It's just not a big thing here
Water: No shortage whatsoever. Water actually springs from the ground. A giant freshwater lake is 15 minutes away, and whitewater kayaking is all around. You can actually catch trout in the cold water discharged by dams in the area. Yet because this is a hilly area, floods are not a concern.
Earthquakes: Very stable geology, a couple hundred miles from the New Madrid fault.
Religiosity: Two big landmarks in Eureka Springs are religious tourist traps, and probably most people you meet have the typical Southern dark ages mentality. However, inner Eureka Springs is something of an oasis in the Ozarks, and you'll find a lot more quirkiness and toleration, the occasional Pride flag, head shop, etc. The prevailing politics in the area will be shocking to Californians though, so this might be a tough place to be if one is not accustomed to being in the minority.
Diversity: LOW. North Arkansas/South Missouri is a bastion of hate groups, and the better tolerance in Eureka Springs isn't doing much to attract minorities to the area. Bentonville, Rogers, Springdale, and Fayetteville (basically one large metro) are 45 minutes away and have a lot more educated professionals, a university, and a decent-sized Hispanic and Marshallese population.
Cost: $200k will outright buy a very nice house here. If you don't like it, the mistake wouldn't cost much. California-cottage-level spending will buy you a mansion with a view on the lake.
Other: Believe it or not, you're close to an airport that will get you to most hubs: https://www.flyxna.com/destinations
Also See: Hot Springs, AR

TL;DR: Most of what you'd like, but with tradeoffs including the religiosity, low diversity, and weather that occasionally gets uncomfortable during about 4 months out of each year. Relatively low cost of living.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2021, 09:18:06 PM by ChpBstrd »

Sailor Sam

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- An existing culture of appreciation of spirituality. This is a difficult word choice, but I’m aiming for a broad definition that lies outside Christian church culture, and specifically appreciates that broadness. Think meditation, conscious movement, and other alternative approaches.

This last part is the clincher where I’m specifically asking for help. I’m hearing a lot about Asheville in this regard - thoughts? Other places? Oregon and Colorado are out because fire, and Santa Fe, Taos and Sedona are out due to lack of water. Feel free to argue otherwise. I love HI but it’s very far from family.

I relocate for work every 2-3 years, and have lived in a lot of coastal cities and towns on both sides of the continental divide. I personally disliked living in Seattle, find the Mid-Atlantic fairly friendly, and have found great amenity in the Deep South despite been visibly, obviously, painfully ho.mo.sexhsual (as southerners say).

What I’d urge you to think about, internet friend-stranger who is under no obligation to listen to me fart my thoughts out, is that you should think about what you’re willing to put up with, in order to get what you’re actually after.

Do you want an aura of pachouli, and don’t mind that your closest neighbors are the economically displace who’ve been driven out by all the people seeking the vibe?

Do you want a place where people are open to new friendships, and will accept a little Jesus speak in exchange for a local culture that accepts individuals but not movements? (Aka: not fucking Seattle. Sorry @lhamo. I’m happy for you to be happy there, but man I hated it!)

Do you want a place that embraces movements, and you’re willing to accept the low-diversity that comes from a rigidly homogenized view of “proper,” versus “improper,” movements?

AK is gonna give you an excellent level of spiritually outside of the Judeao Christian tradition, but it’s cold and there are a wide variety of freak flags you’re gonna have to endure as they fly next to your own. But, at the same time, AK has way more respect for freak flags than CONUS.

Pros. Cons. Blah, blah.

MoseyingAlong

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.... there are a wide variety of freak flags you’re gonna have to endure as they fly next to your own....


Sailor Sam's whole post is excellent. This point in particular is one a lot of people forget or just don't want to deal with.

jac941

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Posting to follow.

I’m on the other side of the bay but must be closer to the water than Dicey because the smoke wasn’t that bad here today. Or maybe the horror show of September 2020 reset my expectations.

I’m frequently thinking of leaving. Mostly for money and lack of real community despite living here for 20 years. Also, people here hate kids - I’ve never been anywhere else where I experience such disdain for the existence of my children.

My big criteria is lack of cars and easy / safe walking, biking or transit options which rules out most places. I had a whole thread going on that for a while and made a list of places to visit. I’m willing to tolerate shitty weather, but my spouse is less enthusiastic. Tough to find a place…

Jenny Wren

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Bellingham may fit your bill, but do keep in mind that it is very homogenized and there is a lot of group think, think the enlightened farmer's market crowd with some Patagonia-wearing student protestors sprinkled around. Some wildfire smoke, although this year has been good, but rarely fires burning on our doorstep. This risk changes the further east and into the Cascades you go, of course. Our hippies don't burn patchouli, but instead opt for carefully curated campfire and spruce scented candles in a local artist designed tin ;)


Do you want a place that embraces movements, and you’re willing to accept the low-diversity that comes from a rigidly homogenized view of “proper,” versus “improper,” movements?

AK is gonna give you an excellent level of spiritually outside of the Judeao Christian tradition, but it’s cold and there are a wide variety of freak flags you’re gonna have to endure as they fly next to your own. But, at the same time, AK has way more respect for freak flags than CONUS.

Pros. Cons. Blah, blah.

Sam, even though I am not the OP, I want to thank you for this! It spawned an epiphany of sorts this morning as I bemoaned property prices again. I love the general region of where I live, but I've been hobbling my search out of fear of other freak flags (we are an LGBT family). It dawned on me that the first part of your quote perfectly explains the bit of discontent we have where we are at right now, and the second is what we need to keep in mind going forward.

wenchsenior

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Well, you have to get used to snow, but we recently moved to Madison WI and it fits all your other criteria. We love it!

It reminds me of the way Boulder used to be.

Agree. 

JetBlast

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If you’re going to check out Madison and Ann Arbor, you might add Burlington, VT to the list. Plenty of hippies….and snow.

nalor511

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Marin is a very specific place, due to a variety of things. The extreme proximity to San Francisco, yet the very isolated feel off being across toll bridges and the fact that there's very little reason for people in SF/EB to ever come there. Gentrification. NIMBY. Nature preserves.

I guess it also depends where in Marin you are, because Sausalito is very different than Novato, and the sheer variety of things you can find 45 minute from either is mind boggling...

Fomerly known as something

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If you’re going to check out Madison and Ann Arbor, you might add Burlington, VT to the list. Plenty of hippies….and snow.

If you are looking at Ann Arbor and Madison, I’d add in Traverse City and Marquette, with climate change they might get ideal temperatures sooner rather than later.

ETA: says the person literally on her way to Mill Valley from the Midwest.

cchrissyy

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How about down around Monterey?

We be free if we try

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Thank you all, and in particular thank you Sailor Sam. This gives me food for thought, and I don’t know the answer. We do a lot of conscious dance, so that in particular feels important because having that already exist in a place is likely how my partner and I would insert ourselves into a new community. And close proximity to nature / no people is important to me, AND I’m spoiled by how easily I can reach a health food store / farmers market for organic veggies (this is my partner’s career path, so it’s not only a lifestyle choice). Other than that, I don’t need the vibe. I’m ok with freaks with other flags, though I prefer my freaks to be tolerant and nonviolent.

And it’s also true that having a bunch of nature-loving types, dancing types, with access to good quality produce tends to mean white hippy upper-class enclaves, or at least the outer edges of those places. I feel like I could let this simmer awhile.

dang1

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Eureka, a little bit north

Weisass

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My partner grew up in marin, and I grew up in the South Bay. So I know what you mean when you talk about the climate. It is like nothing else I have ever experienced.

We have lived in southern Cali (no thank you), the northeast and the midatlantic. There is nothing exactly like marin, but we have found that the mid Atlantic (Philly area) was a climate we could grow accustomed to. It gets cold, but not much less than your stated minimum, it is relatively diverse, our neighbors are lovely, plenty of water, fires are rare. We get the rare nor’easter, but that’s just a huge pile of rain. The biggest thing I miss is that it doesn’t get as cold at night here as it does in marin in the summer.

ChpBstrd

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I will say that it is my view that strong community is and will be the only way to weather this transition medium term. I want to have neighbors who trust each other enough to share food and housing and transport for a while if the chips are down. I would prioritize a feeling that that was possible in a new place over most weather conditions.

One issue is that if a group of people with the value set which leads to a strong community come together and work hard to make a place excellent, we all know what would happen next. People would come there who don’t have the values and aren’t willing to do the work, and they will think of the community as another product they purchase. Property values rise, and the place would get a reputation as an excellent product, which would draw more consumers of community. Eventually the consumers of community would outnumber the producers of community, and it would be just another neighborhood of people who migrate between screens, work, and shopping.

Ecky

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If you’re going to check out Madison and Ann Arbor, you might add Burlington, VT to the list. Plenty of hippies….and snow.

Burlington VT fits the bill, except for weather. I'm also fond of Ann Arbor. But again, weather.

I live near Burlington. This summer, the weather has mostly been in the upper 70's with moderate humidity (dew points around 60), with a few days in the mid 80's which are great for swimming. There has been enough rain to keep things lush and green, maybe one day in four. The "city" itself is pretty highly educated and extremely liberal, to the point that it's embraced and practically celebrated. The culture of spirituality also fits, while at the same time it's one of the least religious places in the country.

Major pluses are that things here are not crowded at all, and that crunchy hippies are a majority in many areas. It's trivially easy to drive 30 minutes to an hour and find a crashing waterfall to camp near, all to yourself.

The flip side is that there are approximately 5 months where you can have snow on the ground. Typically there are 1-3 weeks in winter where the afternoon high doesn't get above zero, though most of winter is spent in the high 20's. Snow tends to accumulate to around 2 feet (based on my observations).

As others have said, it's very possible to acclimate and even come to love this kind of climate. I moved up from Florida holding the view that anything below 65 was "cold", and have had no issues. It's a major bonus if you can find something outdoors or active to do during the cold months that makes the weather rewarding, such as skiing, snowmobiling, or (in my case) autocross and gymkhana on the lakes once they freeze over.

Most of the US is going to have winters that get below 30 degrees. The only places you won't find that are coastal California, Florida, and along the gulf of Mexico, the latter two of which are oppressively hot and humid for most of the year.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 06:23:55 AM by Ecky »

roomtempmayo

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And it’s also true that having a bunch of nature-loving types, dancing types, with access to good quality produce tends to mean white hippy upper-class enclaves, or at least the outer edges of those places. I feel like I could let this simmer awhile.

Yeah, unless you're cool with doing your conscious dance while your neighbor is sighting in his AR, another neighbor is burning tires in his outdoor wood furnace, and another neighbor is butchering a moose in his front yard, I don't think Alaska is going to be your speed.  Like @Sailor Sam said, you can fly your freak flag there, but so can everyone else.

There are "white hippy upper-class enclaves" (kudos on cutting the crap) in the southeast, but all that I know of are coastal and in danger of flooding.

If you can learn to deal with snow, a community built on the Usonia model might be your best bet.  That includes the original Usonia in the Hudson Valley, and also deliberate communities like Jackson Meadow in Minnesota.

Again, if you can deal with snow, there are a fair number of artsy towns in nice natural settings where you'll find like minded folks.  New Paltz, NY and Grand Marais, MN come to mind.  Lots of the old New England liberal arts college towns might work, too.

Watchmaker

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Like all the other upper Midwest suggestions you may rule it out because of the weather, but Viroqua, WI is precisely everything else you describe.

JetBlast

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If I was the OP and loved the Marin vibe I would try to find a way to live there. Or in Sonoma County which has more wildfire risk but is less expensive. Petaluma (closest to Marin) has a "white middle class hippie vibe" along with more cultural diversity too as do many of Sonoma County. So maybe the yoga chicken and egg crowd would be a good fit ;-). https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1999-11-18-9911180360-story,amp.html

When I think Sonoma County hippie towns, the name on the tip of my tongue is Sebastopol. But that’s serious hippies, not bougie Marin County hippies.

wenchsenior

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Like all the other upper Midwest suggestions you may rule it out because of the weather, but Viroqua, WI is precisely everything else you describe.

We've been re-inspecting WI for retirement for climate change related reasons, and since Madison area real estate is sizzling hot, I was thinking of looking to the beautiful southwestern corner (e.g., Spring Green environs all the way over to Dubuque IA area).  We will have to also look north toward LaCrosse, I think, so we will check out Viroqua.

We be free if we try

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I like Sebastopol a lot (we’re not really that bougie, though I do a good imitation). It would be where we likely would have moved, if we’d ever bothered to move at all, were it not for the fires, that IMO will worsen every year, more or less, until CA is a far less idyllic spot than it currently is. We can stay very comfortably in Marin - as long as we rent. But I’d rather move in 4 years than in 10, once we’re old-ish and it’s even harder to join a totally new community. And the rest of CA also decides to decamp.

I’m very heartened to hear about all the spots in the Midwest and Northeast that seem to offer possibilities (at least to those less weather sensitive). I’ve lived in a mid-sized southern city (a big generalization but trying not to self-identify), and this level of “alternative” community was smaller than I’d prefer, but it was there.

Thanks to all who are chiming in.

ender

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Like all the other upper Midwest suggestions you may rule it out because of the weather, but Viroqua, WI is precisely everything else you describe.

We've been re-inspecting WI for retirement for climate change related reasons, and since Madison area real estate is sizzling hot, I was thinking of looking to the beautiful southwestern corner (e.g., Spring Green environs all the way over to Dubuque IA area).  We will have to also look north toward LaCrosse, I think, so we will check out Viroqua.

hey this is the area we're looking too lol!

Watchmaker

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Like all the other upper Midwest suggestions you may rule it out because of the weather, but Viroqua, WI is precisely everything else you describe.

We've been re-inspecting WI for retirement for climate change related reasons, and since Madison area real estate is sizzling hot, I was thinking of looking to the beautiful southwestern corner (e.g., Spring Green environs all the way over to Dubuque IA area).  We will have to also look north toward LaCrosse, I think, so we will check out Viroqua.

hey this is the area we're looking too lol!

It's where I live right now, and I'm staying!