Author Topic: Poor friends/relatives  (Read 9788 times)

2Cent

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Poor friends/relatives
« on: August 12, 2015, 06:49:57 AM »
I am in the situation that I have some money saved up, but most of people around don't have anything saved. They live on the edge of financial ruin and when a big bill comes or some setback comes, they know where to find me to "borrow" money.

At that point I feel a bit bad to point out that they should have lived more frugal and saved for such an occasion, as they are quite low income people and live on less than me. How can I manage to keep healthy relations with people who are in need of money without draining my savings completely?

On the one hand with wealth comes some responsibility, but on the other hand, I don't want to make myself responsible for all the people around me when I have no control over how they live.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 06:53:16 AM »
Invest it so you don't have much cash on hand either.

Argyle

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2015, 06:56:49 AM »
I think the "haves," like us, have a responsibility to live constructively.  But I don't actually think handing out money to those who make bad financial decisions is constructive.  It's often what's called "enabling" it protects them from the consequences of their bad decisions and therefore gives them no incentive to figure stuff out and make better decisions.

I know that in my young and irresponsible days, a series of blunders and bad decisions taught me more than anything else about what I wanted (and needed) to avoid. If someone had rescued me from the consequences of my decisions, I wouldn't have learned the lesson.

There's also the pressure that's put on us to give the money, whether we think it's a good idea or not.  I think it's wise to keep quiet about how much we have and not succumb to pressure.  Maybe you could prepare some phrases to turn people down with: "Man, I need every cent I get.  I'm sorry, man.  Wish I were a billionaire!"  Or if they say, "But you have a car, and a house..." or whatever, "You think this stuff grows on trees?  I've got payments, man!  Do you know how many payments I have?  Those guys are after blood!  I wish I had money to hand out, you know I do."  (This avoids the question of what the payments are for, like maybe not for your car.)

It's not in anyone's interest for you to go handing out money.  I don't mean never helping in the case of a genuine life-threatening emergency.  But those are few and far between.

willkp23

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 06:58:18 AM »
I agree with the poster above.   Are you in a situation where you can give to help them out if they truly need it?   Are you financially set?   If not, I would not give money unless you expect never to see it again.   I would add that you are not obligated to take care of them if they haven't managed their money correctly.   I believe in being our "brother's keeper", but grown adults have to be accountable to live within their means and provide for their families unless unable to.   Good Luck!

okits

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2015, 07:01:50 AM »
Why do they know you have money?  That's your first problem.  When people see wealth they want a piece of it.

If you can't help but be too honest, give advice but no money.  People who want to genuinely do better will want your advice (e.g. sell luxury possessions, cut conveniences). Those who just want you to make their mistakes go away will leave in a huff. It may be simpler and easier to just pass yourself off as tapped out as the people around you,

I'm a red panda

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2015, 07:06:22 AM »
In true emergencies, I'd help family and friends. Any regularly occurring bill is not an emergency.  If a family member lost their house, I have spare rooms- but a mortgage payment is not an emergency. (And yes, I have a family member very close to this situation. They are pretty furious at us for this line of thought; but if you chose to buy a BMW instead of pay your mortgage, that is not my fault.)  An unexpected surgery is an emergency.

But I also would give the money with a "and how are you going to make sure this doesn't happen again? I have extra money on hand because I don't have cable- you spend $120 a month on that! What is your cell phone costing? If it's more than $40 a month, you really need to change plans. My money doesn't just appear from nowhere, I have it because I plan for emergencies."
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 07:46:28 AM by iowajes »

James

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2015, 07:30:19 AM »
I am in the situation that I have some money saved up, but most of people around don't have anything saved. They live on the edge of financial ruin and when a big bill comes or some setback comes, they know where to find me to "borrow" money.

At that point I feel a bit bad to point out that they should have lived more frugal and saved for such an occasion, as they are quite low income people and live on less than me. How can I manage to keep healthy relations with people who are in need of money without draining my savings completely?

On the one hand with wealth comes some responsibility, but on the other hand, I don't want to make myself responsible for all the people around me when I have no control over how they live.


If they live on the edge of financial ruin and you bail them out, you will not be doing them any favors. Often hitting financial ruin is what it takes to make people adjust to what they actually have to spend.


I think okits had the right answer, you could be able to honestly tell them that you don't have access to your money right now. You need to be cash poor, or at least tell them you are cash poor. I would personally have no problem saying "I don't have the money to lend right now, it is tied up in some current things I'm going through". That lets them believe "you would if you could", but the down side is they might keep coming back in the future. But saying a simple "no" is seen as poor form socially, so the white lies are perfectly acceptable.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2015, 08:13:16 AM »
As someone who has lost 40k to a 'friend', I advise you not to lend money, period.

You are not a bank.

But the reality is that if it were for some ER surgery (although all hospitals 'take payments') or something for a friend's child...I probably would. One time.

Not monthly.

I agree with all who said your answer is ain't got it: "Sorry, but have no money at the moment: just paid a big bill and things are very tight for me: I had been thinking of asking YOU for a loan!"

CmFtns

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2015, 08:31:35 AM »
It all depends on how much they know about your financial situation. How much do they know?

I agree with all above posts that you should not lend money except under very few circumstances.

MrsPete

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2015, 08:37:14 AM »
I'd lean towards bringing them bags of groceries or buying winter coats for the kids ... rather than handing over cash.

James

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2015, 08:40:47 AM »
I'd lean towards bringing them bags of groceries or buying winter coats for the kids ... rather than handing over cash.


But I also know people who purposely never buy things for their kids, knowing if they have kids in rags they will likely get better financial gifts from others, or at least they will buy food and clothing for the kids, meaning the parents can spend their money on crap.


We each have to judge for our own situation what is best, just be careful about creating dependency even with the best intentions. Most effects in life are unintended, but they are no less real than intended effects.

2Cent

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2015, 09:34:05 AM »
Thanks for the replies. I guess avoiding the issue is the best way to go. And if I tie up the money, I can say I don't have money without lying. Although I probably will keep helping  the worst cases.

I don't think I could enjoy anything if I know that the money could have helped some kid to stay in school or got someone a life saving operation, but I chose to use it for something I don't really need that much. I guess that is a good motivation for frugality though.

2ndTimer

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2015, 09:45:25 AM »
I dealt with a friend in this situation by lending a small amount of money.  When the subject came up again, I gently pointed out that he still owed me for the previous "loan"  It never came up again.

Rosy

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2015, 09:50:51 AM »
Sometimes it is difficult to say NO. You are not a child who is expected to share a toy, you are an adult who wants to protect his assets from the demands of friends and family.

You do not owe them anything. Offer a beer or cup of coffee and your advice for improving their finances, if it is welcomed. Say, yes I'm doing fine, but things are tight for me right now too, sorry.

Yes, it is much harder to manage your money when you are poor, never mind actually having emergency savings or a little extra spending money for an event. But, speaking from experience it can be done, there are always options, new perspectives and new opportunities.

Helping a kid stay in school and showing them how to handle their finances so they can do well in the future is an awesome opportunity - for your soul, your good karma:). If you have the money to do that, I would bet that you will never regret that decision.

rubybeth

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2015, 10:07:10 AM »
Oy, I feel for you in this situation. I think it would really depend on the situation--if they need the money in order to eat, or not end up on the streets, I might help them buy groceries or send in a rent payment for someone in seriously dire need and wouldn't ask them to pay it back, period.

However, if they are looking for a handout or regularly getting "bailed out" by you, you're enabling the behavior and need to stop--maybe give them a warning that this is the last time you can help, because they need to figure things out--and you could offer to help them set up a budget and show them how to use the envelope system with cash a la Dave Ramsey to get them going.

And I also like the idea of tying up your money in investments and only keeping a small emergency fund, and stop talking about how you have money. You likely need to be saving your funds for your own emergency or retirement.

MsSindy

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2015, 10:18:45 AM »
.........
I don't think I could enjoy anything if I know that the money could have helped some kid to stay in school or got someone a life saving operation, but I chose to use it for something I don't really need that much. I guess that is a good motivation for frugality though.

Be careful with this line of thinking, because there will always be people in need - just a fact of life.  With this philosophy, you will never enjoy anything.  You need to find the right balance and rid yourself of guilt.  You are not responsible for the world.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2015, 10:33:44 AM »
I don't think I could enjoy anything if I know that the money could have helped some kid to stay in school or got someone a life saving operation, but I chose to use it for something I don't really need that much. I guess that is a good motivation for frugality though.

Are you limiting this to only people you know?
Because your money CAN do these things right now, but you've already chosen not to.


Personally I like the small loan idea.  If they paid you back, then they can get another one. If they didn't- well, you never have to do it again.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2015, 10:38:52 AM »
This is rough, I haven't had this yet but I get the feeling I'm going to soon.  Good advice above.

One thing that I know has helped me not get asked for anything yet is embellishing my cost of living.  Most people know I make good money just due to being 10+ years into an IT career and being in the silicon valley.  Anyone can extrapolate that if they want.  But living in SF let's me answer 'man you must make good money with' 'yea but living in SF is expennnnsive!' 'oh yea I can't even imagine how anyone affords that'.  They don't have to know I'm frugal and even with the crazy COL I'm probably still spending less than they are every month and managing to save 60%.  Any frugality/money saving ideas I may discuss are taken a something I have to do just to afford to live here.  May not be completely applicable, but if you can embellish how much an expense is killing your finances (new roof, car repair/replacement, needing a new computer, etc), that can help deflect.

I also find it helps to keep myself on a strict spending budget.  Not just for my savings rate and keeping me challenged, but then people get used to hearing me say 'I don't have the money for that right now'.

MayDay

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2015, 10:54:35 AM »
My SIL has a low paying job and is currently largely supported by my MIL.  SIL makes a whole host of poor financial choices (expensive car, CC debt, expensive pet, smoking, general money wasting on stupid crap at Walmart that she doesn't need, fancy phone).  When MIL dies, SIL will probably quickly run through her inheritance and then come to us. 

She truly is low income, but at the same time, if she made good choices she would be fine (especially as she has a safety net, unlike those in generational poverty.)  But, luckily H realizes after seeing the pattern of SIL's behaviors for the last 10+ years, no amount of money will help.  If we give to help with this month's crisis, there will be another one next month.  So we will not be falling down that rabbit hole.  If we ever help it will be with strings attached (sitting down with us and going over the whole budget, making cuts) that SIL likely won't accept unless things are truly dire.

So far she hasn't outright asked us for money (MIL fills that role!) but during her divorce she called DH A LOT and did a lot of not-so-subtle testing of the waters.  "Brother, I have no money, I need this much money, how am I ever going to get it, woe is me woe is me..........long pause..........".  H responded with lots of ideas like:  sell your car, cut your cell phone, would you like me to go over your spending with you?  She passed on that, not surprisingly.   


GoodStash BadStache

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2015, 11:32:34 AM »
There's good advice above and what I'm reminded of is "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime".  Most people don't like advice that doesn't match with their current line of thinking and they may not want to hear about how making changes could help them in the future.

I may be generalizing too much, but in my experience most people who end up borrowing from friends/family are either financially illiterate or unable to delay gratification (assuming they aren't unemployable for some reason).  People in the first group just don't know where their money goes, but may be willing to learn to change those behaviors.  People in the second group have a tougher time since most long-term money goals require ignoring/delaying current needs to support the end result.

There's also the possibility that a fiscally responsible individual hits a bad streak and chooses to ask for assistance, but I can't say that's ever happened to me.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2015, 11:51:32 AM »
There's also the possibility that a fiscally responsible individual hits a bad streak and chooses to ask for assistance, but I can't say that's ever happened to me.

The window for that scenario is pretty narrow, so it's definitely the more unlikely case.  I can see early on when I stopped being a financial idiot and started really getting my shit together, if I had hit some big financial problem right then I may have had to ask my parents for help.  But as time goes on the fiscally responsible person gets less and less likely to ever have to ask for that kind of help since their debts are going down and savings are growing.

bsmith

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2015, 12:09:14 PM »
Quote
Invest it so you don't have much cash on hand either.

+1

I say, "Sorry but I'm on a tight budget." Over 1/3 of my income is budgeted to go to Vanguard, but that's beside the point.

Lots of good suggestions above for if you wanted to be helpful. I'll add that you could offer to show them how to make a budget and follow it, and maybe buy them YNAB.

nobody123

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2015, 12:23:18 PM »
Grow a pair and just say no.  You don't owe anyone else anything, including an explanation as to why you are saying no.

The only reason people come asking is because they think they will get something out of you.  Once word gets out that the Bank of 2Cent is closed, the awkward conversations will become fewer and far between.

jzb11

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2015, 01:18:13 PM »
I am in the situation that I have some money saved up, but most of people around don't have anything saved. They live on the edge of financial ruin and when a big bill comes or some setback comes, they know where to find me to "borrow" money.

At that point I feel a bit bad to point out that they should have lived more frugal and saved for such an occasion, as they are quite low income people and live on less than me. How can I manage to keep healthy relations with people who are in need of money without draining my savings completely?

On the one hand with wealth comes some responsibility, but on the other hand, I don't want to make myself responsible for all the people around me when I have no control over how they live.

Make it clear to everyone that you don't loan money, so there's no need to ask.

Easye418

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2015, 01:26:10 PM »
I am in the situation that I have some money saved up, but most of people around don't have anything saved. They live on the edge of financial ruin and when a big bill comes or some setback comes, they know where to find me to "borrow" money.

At that point I feel a bit bad to point out that they should have lived more frugal and saved for such an occasion, as they are quite low income people and live on less than me. How can I manage to keep healthy relations with people who are in need of money without draining my savings completely?

On the one hand with wealth comes some responsibility, but on the other hand, I don't want to make myself responsible for all the people around me when I have no control over how they live.

Easy, say "Sorry, but no".  Anyone who pushes or asks "Why?  Come on!", you should really consider not being friends with anymore.

I've been asked multiple times to take out small loans to friends and have said "no" everytime.  Never hand your money out or talk about money.

I make combined over $100k a year and I'm sure all my friends can put that together, but I managed to tell them how much $X Student Loans and $X Mortgage and $X Prop Tax costs me a monthly.

I would only loan money to my siblings (both Parents gone at this point) and that is because they "scratched my back" at one point.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 01:28:14 PM by Easye418 »

lbmustache

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2015, 04:28:06 PM »
Sorry, but I believe money tends to ruin relationships and I couldn't lend money and not expect to see it again: which I think is the mindset you need to have to be okay with lending it out.

I had a similar situation to the MMM blog post a long time ago: lent money to a friend, friend proceeded to live it up (go shopping, eat out, unnecessary things when money is tight) and never saw that money again. Charming.

I would tell friends flat out no. You are not obligated to offer a reason, but "low cash on hand," "something major is coming up," "I need it for xyz," could suffice.

Family members... unless it's my mom, dad, or brother, no. I don't have close ties with anyone outside of this small circle.

You can always offer to help out in other ways, like making them dinner once in awhile, etc.

2Cent

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2015, 02:18:36 AM »
I don't think I could enjoy anything if I know that the money could have helped some kid to stay in school or got someone a life saving operation, but I chose to use it for something I don't really need that much. I guess that is a good motivation for frugality though.

Are you limiting this to only people you know?
Because your money CAN do these things right now, but you've already chosen not to.


Personally I like the small loan idea.  If they paid you back, then they can get another one. If they didn't- well, you never have to do it again.
Yea, only people I know. Otherwise I think I will get cheated. But I know a lot of people. Especially I know people in India, which is like a black hole of need.

I like the small loan Idea too. But realistically that would just spoil most of my relations as much as not giving loans.

neophyte

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2015, 06:59:39 AM »
Especially I know people in India, which is like a black hole of need.

I'm sorry. I don't have good answers but you have my sympathy.  I know people in developing countries and it feels like a more difficult problem.  In the US it's easy to say "Tell them to cut the cable, get a cheaper car, and go to the food pantry."  But for these people, I know there is no social safety net to catch them and not all of their problems stem from poor money management.  I am low income by mustachian standards, but make an unfathomable amount of money compared to them. Still, I don't make enough money to support myself in the US as well as multiple people overseas.

AlwaysLearningToSave

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2015, 07:39:16 AM »
I don't think I could enjoy anything if I know that the money could have helped some kid to stay in school or got someone a life saving operation, but I chose to use it for something I don't really need that much. I guess that is a good motivation for frugality though.

Are you limiting this to only people you know?
Because your money CAN do these things right now, but you've already chosen not to.


Personally I like the small loan idea.  If they paid you back, then they can get another one. If they didn't- well, you never have to do it again.
Yea, only people I know. Otherwise I think I will get cheated. But I know a lot of people. Especially I know people in India, which is like a black hole of need.

I like the small loan Idea too. But realistically that would just spoil most of my relations as much as not giving loans.

Perhaps you should treat your desire to help friends similarly to how some people treat a church tithe.  You decide ahead of time that you will set aside X% of your after-tax income to help friends, where X is a percentage that still allows you to meet your financial goals.  If someone needs help, you can draw from this fund as you see fit.  If you don't give it all away, keep it saved in a separate account so that it is available when you choose to give it. 

This at least helps ensure that your desire to give does not harm you.  If you don't plan ahead and decide whether or not to give every time someone comes along with a tale of woe, you could quickly find yourself giving too much and hurting yourself.  By planning ahead, you know that you can give up to a certain point, but cannot give more even if someone is tugging at your heartstrings with their genuine need.

Keep in mind that you should not give anything unless you yourself are not carrying debt.  If you are carrying debt and helping others at the same time, you are essentially borrowing money to give to someone else-- which is not a good position in which to place yourself. 

This arrangement also does not address the issue of responsibility of the recipient of your money.  If people find out that you have a stash of cash you are willing to give, you run into the same potential problem of people depending upon you and not taking responsibility for their use of money.  You will need to find some way to ensure that your money goes to those who truly need it and not to those who simply figured out that you are a reliable fount of money.

plainjane

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2015, 07:40:05 AM »
I don't think I could enjoy anything if I know that the money could have helped some kid to stay in school or got someone a life saving operation, but I chose to use it for something I don't really need that much. I guess that is a good motivation for frugality though.

IF you are going to be unable to say no, then you need to line item this in your budget.  You have x amount that you save on a regular basis and sometimes it gets drawn down and you need to refill (and you can't give more during that time). (Just like some others in this forum do for their parents.)

However, this approach will be the equivalent of intermittent/inconsistent reinforcement, which is the toughest type of habit to break once it is established in the people asking you for money. 

MsPeacock

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2015, 08:41:16 AM »
I'd lean towards bringing them bags of groceries or buying winter coats for the kids ... rather than handing over cash.

This. I have a friend who I occasionally did this for, or sent money for those items because she and her family were in very tight circumstances. I loaned her 2k because they had to file bankruptcy. They had a plan to repay - which hasn't happened. A lot of their tight circumstances are self-inflicted or the result of bad financial decisions - which I can see much more clearly now. We are still friends and I am working myself mentally into the place where the 2k if just a gift (actually they paid back about 500 over the course of almost 3 years now). I prefer to give them something they need rather than money, but at this point I'm really holding back in general. I'd pay for glasses for their son, for instance, because he really needs them and shouldn't go without. Other stuff, no - because they just bought a smart phone and have cable tv and some sort of chiropractic plan for the entire family (which is utter quackery). And, money is "very tight" for them - they are on a small single income, but they still don't make good choices. The real problem is less low income then what they are choosing to spend their money on.

RunHappy

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2015, 09:06:24 AM »
So what I am about to suggest I've only ever done once and a very long time ago, but it worked out well.

I  had a family member who was always having emergencies, car breaking down, dog/cat needing surgery, medical expenses (no insurance), etc.  I would lend money, shewould always pay me back so it took me a WHILE to see this person had a money problem (I was much younger and not as wise).  I had some savings, but they never had enough money left over for to save, so I felt like it was my duty to help them out.

I can't even tell you how this even came to be an idea, but she started sending me $20 or so a month for me to save for her, basically if she had any "extra" money she would send it to me.  I pretty much just stuck it in an envelope with a piece of paper documenting her "deposits".  If an "emergency" came up I would send her whatever she needed from her envelope.  After a couple of years her emergences were less frequent (more reliable car, stable employment, healthy animals, etc) she had about $2k in the envelope.  I told her I didn't feel comfortable keeping that much of her money anymore.  She was amazed that she had actually managed to save that much money without feeling it.  I gave her back her money and she started managing it herself to the point where she was able to save even more. 

While she is not on the FIRE track and she still has "normal" debt, she has a lot of savings and is financially better off than she was back then.

dsmexpat

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2015, 09:14:33 AM »
I've been the poor relative as a dumb kid who was begging from parents (although I was always conscious that it wasn't my money and I spent it with the respect that charity deserves). It didn't take being cut off for me to grow up, just time. Being cut off would have significantly impacted my chances at becoming the respectable mustachian I am today. Sometimes giving someone a few fish while they learn to fish for themselves works out, it did in my case.

robartsd

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2015, 09:19:30 AM »
My rule has always been to never loan more to an individual than you would feel comfortable that your view of the relationship would not be impaired if then never repaid. This amount varys from relationship to relationship (and has increased for some who have responsibly paid back in the past) and I am willing to give much more assistance in kind than I would loan cash.

partgypsy

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2015, 09:21:50 AM »
This is a tough situation, and I'm kind of in the same situation. The problem, is that if they have poorly paid jobs and no savings, not having money is a chronic, not a once in awhile situation.
I don't think it's any family member's responsibility to permanently subsidize another family member. except maybe in case of a parent who kids has some permanent physical or brain disability, but even there, there should be some kind of disability issue. Obviously, if you can see ways they can increase their income, cut their costs, score a great deal on something they need, help them! Please don't put yourself in situation where you are their go to person to get money from when things are short. It won't solve underlying problem, and may pull you under eventually as well.

Rollin

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2015, 11:47:09 AM »
I try not to lend money to friends or relatives and I try not to judge people, but when I lend money I judge them (their purchases, etc.).  If I do lend it is usually only once and it is with a written contract with set repayment time and a smallish interest charge - usually 3%.

Kaspian

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2015, 12:44:54 PM »
I had this laminated.  Keep it in a cookie jar on top of the fridge.  Friend asks to borrow, this get gets handed to them as the terms and conditions:

http://www.lenpenzo.com/blog/id15845-dear-friend-here-are-41-reasons-why-im-not-lending-you-the-money.html

Bolshevik Artizan

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2015, 01:12:12 PM »
I recently loaned a very good friend in dire straits $5000 and got the money back in a week. On a more complex note, I supported my parents in law in various ways (heavily subsidized rent on a home I own, paid their utility bills, bought them meals out and didn't charge them rent for two years) until it got to the point where I started to feel I was being used. Added to which they had that resentment some lower income people have for people who have done OK. So the deal I have now struck with my wife is that we won't buy them dinners etc any more and they will live someplace they can afford - over the last 3/4 years I would say I have subsidized my parents-in-law to the tune of $45,000 CDN. They are lovely people and I wanted to do it, but it has made me determined that I will NEVER take a penny off my son, ever, no matter what. It's unfair to ask people to support you when they have their own lives/children to look after.

Finally, I wanted to add that I've noticed this subject comes up time and again on this forum: mustachians getting tapped up for money. With no word of a lie, yesterday I gave $20 to an anti-racist charity on the street. On seeing me make a donation, a guy standing next to the campaigner immediately stepped up to me and asked me for food money. The point is, it never seems to end and you have to pick those you wish to help extremely carefully, if at all...

BA

Kaspian

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2015, 11:43:30 AM »
Finally, I wanted to add that I've noticed this subject comes up time and again on this forum: mustachians getting tapped up for money. With no word of a lie, yesterday I gave $20 to an anti-racist charity on the street. On seeing me make a donation, a guy standing next to the campaigner immediately stepped up to me and asked me for food money. The point is, it never seems to end and you have to pick those you wish to help extremely carefully, if at all...

I now only give to registered charities where I get a tax receipt.  Not because I want the deduction (though it's nice), but because I want my donation on the books and not in someone's pocket.  We've had so many fraudulent charities come through my city (one even managed to get a booth at a mall for months!) that it's all very sketchy.  I have also given to out-of-country charities who provide a receipt even though I can't deduct it.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Poor friends/relatives
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2015, 12:01:03 PM »
My FIL sent the kids a crazy expensive box of Christmas toys and then asked to borrow $150 a few months later.

Mr. FP sent it, because it was a small amount of money and it's his dad. I think he and his wife both have disabilities and the wife has had a heart attack and various surgeries, but we actually don't know that much about his financial position because we're not close and haven't seen him in 14 years. So it's not like we could sit down and go over his budget with him. If he pays it back, fine, if not, well, we could spare it.