Poll

What's your target annual income in retirement?

< $15,000
2 (1.9%)
$15,000 - $30,000
36 (34.6%)
$30,000 - $50,000
38 (36.5%)
$50,000 - $80,000
21 (20.2%)
$80,000+
7 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 100

Voting closed: August 19, 2012, 11:58:15 AM

Author Topic: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?  (Read 12293 times)

arebelspy

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POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« on: May 21, 2012, 11:58:15 AM »
What's your target income in retirement?

Gross (i.e. counting taxes).  Include any extra cushion as well (i.e. "we're shooting for $X, but plan on spending only Y and saving the difference between X and Y -- give us your X number.)

So not your target budget, but your target income.

Include any pensions or social security that you will be collecting within the next 10 years, otherwise exclude.

Not inflation adjusted (i.e. in 2011 dollars).

Let me know if I forgot to clarify/specify anything.

This will obviously vastly vary between people based on a number of factors (location/cost of living, single vs. married, kids or not, etc.), just getting a feel for the average targeted ER budget.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 09:26:14 PM by arebelspy »
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SpendyMcSpend

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2012, 12:04:56 PM »
Combined we would shoot for $70k because property taxes here are going to be very high.  $12,000 per year if we own a paid-off home. 

simonsez

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2012, 12:28:15 PM »
70k in today's dollars sounds about right.  My expenses will be less than that but I plan on leaving a bulk sum in a Roth IRA or some other instrument for my kids and grand kids.  I know that goes against the theme of 'making-your-kids-earn-their-own-way-and-learn-important-lessons' but the school loans I have are killer right now and have delayed some important (to me and my fiancee) life choices.  I plan on preventing some, most, or all of that pain down the road for my heirs.

AJ

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2012, 12:57:09 PM »
We are shooting for $30k income, $20k expenses w/ a paid-for home. I'd like to live quite humbly while rearing children, but have some savings building so we can have some more luxurious fun when we hit traditional retirement age. I want to replicate the environment I grew up in for my kids, which was rather poor but with money for things we needed. I don't want my kids to grow up middle class.

Also, only shooting for that number means we can retire sooner, hopefully before having the kids. If it turns out to be too tight, only one of us will have to go back to work (hopefully only part time) to make up the difference.

Mr Mark

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2012, 01:07:14 PM »

I'm shooting for a minimum $45k / yr post-tax passive income, and expect to make 15k/yr net from a few weeks consulting work. With estimated spend of $50k, leaving a buffer of 10k

2handband

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2012, 01:13:49 PM »
Interesting way to think. I'm taking kind of the opposite approach; instead of a target income I'm focusing exclusively on getting my expenses as absolutely low as humanly possible. Then I think: okay, how can I earn the money to meet those expenses by doing the bare minimum amount of work?

But I'll try to do the math:

Right now I'm making between $800 and $1500 a month, depending on my gig schedule. That'll probably go up a bit now that I'm in this extra band. My expenses generally sit a little under $500 a month, although there was one instance in the past 12 months in which it came to just under $600. So in order to hold things at the present level I need to make $600 a month, or $7200 a year. That's way too high! I'd like to get out from under the lot rent (yes, I know, property taxes... still a whole hell of a lot less than the $3000 a year this absurd situation is costing me), and if I can talk my wife into it I want to get rid of the internet connection at that time as well. Perhaps at the same time we can ditch the car, depending on the circumstance. I always ride with the drummer to gigs, anyway.

Just at a guesstimate, we'd still probably be shelling out between $200 and $300 a month but what the hell... our lot rent alone costs us that much now. So if you figure $300 a month, that puts the whole shmolie at $3600 a year. Wonder what else I can chop...

arebelspy

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2012, 01:46:34 PM »
Interesting way to think. I'm taking kind of the opposite approach; instead of a target income I'm focusing exclusively on getting my expenses as absolutely low as humanly possible. Then I think: okay, how can I earn the money to meet those expenses by doing the bare minimum amount of work?

Yeah, I think most of us start with bare expenses, and then figure out what your income needs to be to support that (and whatever extra spending you want to do).

That's definitely the best way to do it.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

velocistar237

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2012, 02:10:03 PM »
Let me know if I forgot to clarify/specify anything.

A paid-off house is equivalent to investment income that would pay the rent. Say, $3500/year for every $100K in home value?

Yeah, I think most of us start with bare expenses, and then figure out what your income needs to be to support that (and whatever extra spending you want to do).

That's definitely the best way to do it.

How else would you do it except in relation to expected expenses plus some margin?

arebelspy

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2012, 02:27:02 PM »
Let me know if I forgot to clarify/specify anything.

A paid-off house is equivalent to investment income that would pay the rent. Say, $3500/year for every $100K in home value?

Good point.. a paid off home versus a mortgage will have one with a different target income.

I guess we'll just leave that, and each person can choose their own preference for income (i.e. one may shoot for 40k, but they have a paid off home, while another may shoot for 55k but they have a mortgage).

How else would you do it except in relation to expected expenses plus some margin?

I don't know.. apparently the opposite from that? 
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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gooki

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2012, 03:08:27 PM »
$30,000 a year for our family of four. Currently we're spending is approx $2k a month (family of three). Other than travel I can't see us spending a lot of money on anything else once we're financially independent.

Once retired we'd still qualify for between $7,700 and $10,000 in tax credits (depending on the age of two children under 18). I don't want to rely on this as Governments can adjust/remove at will, so it'll simply become bonus savings.

*Edit*

Didn't read properly, and voted for my net after income tax. If we're talking gross before tax, then $36,000 would be our families annual income target.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 03:30:15 PM by gooki »

catalana

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2012, 04:59:30 AM »
$40k net with the assumption of an ongoing mortgage.  Oh and three pets.  It affords a comfortable lifestyle so could be cut, especially with a paid-for house.  Probably to $30-35k.

We are currently spending more (about $50k) as we run two cars (will be one in retirement) and pay rather expensive rent.

Secret Stache

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2012, 05:56:48 AM »
These are great polls, maybe MMM will dig into the data and write an article on the different phases of the average mustachian :)

arebelspy

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2012, 08:36:19 AM »
These are great polls, maybe MMM will dig into the data and write an article on the different phases of the average mustachian :)

I feel like that'll just open us up to more spam and marketing as salesmen try to tap the vast Mustachian wallet.  ;)

It's interesting to know though.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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arebelspy

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2012, 09:12:19 AM »
401K will kick in at age 59 and half, but that's more than 20 years away.. ugrrr...

I'm sure that will come sooner than you want it to.  ;)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

KittyWrestler

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2012, 09:36:51 AM »
401K will kick in at age 59 and half, but that's more than 20 years away.. ugrrr...

I'm sure that will come sooner than you want it to.  ;)

LOL I hope! Watching your hard earned money sitting behind the bar and got locked up.. man... not feeling it.. I may try the trick you guys all been talking about and cash it out somehow one of these days..

bo_knows

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2012, 10:26:51 AM »
401K will kick in at age 59 and half, but that's more than 20 years away.. ugrrr...

I'm sure that will come sooner than you want it to.  ;)

LOL I hope! Watching your hard earned money sitting behind the bar and got locked up.. man... not feeling it.. I may try the trick you guys all been talking about and cash it out somehow one of these days..

It doesn't have to be locked up if you don't want it to. Rule 72(t).

darkelenchus

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2012, 03:43:11 PM »
Just ran the numbers the other day. We're looking at expected expenses of $15,000 to $17,000 and are comfortable with $24,000 as our target income. We'll hit FI in 4.75 years and our target income in 7.6 years w/ our current rate of income, but we're looking to beat these projections. :-)

jawisco

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2012, 08:29:12 PM »
Lots of big spenders out there...

I am planning for approx 20K/year of income adjusted for inflation.  I own my house and pay a small amount of taxes (cheap house = cheap taxes) each year (last year taxes were $250).  I think I could get it down to 12K/year or less if I needed to and grew more food...

smedleyb

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2012, 11:24:11 PM »
Lots of big spenders out there...

I am planning for approx 20K/year of income adjusted for inflation.  I own my house and pay a small amount of taxes (cheap house = cheap taxes) each year (last year taxes were $250).  I think I could get it down to 12K/year or less if I needed to and grew more food...

I think I put down 50-80K, but I don't plan on spending more than 1/3 of it.  Still trying to get rich after I retire.

cdttmm

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2012, 08:53:27 AM »
$50,000-$80,000, which is what we are making now in our semi-retirement.  We can certainly live without reducing our lifestyle on about $40,000, but we like to invest in start-ups so the buffer allows us a lot of blow money because start-ups rarely payback quickly and sometimes don't ever payback.  What can I say?  Inherent risk takers.

auri

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2012, 01:10:24 AM »
I am targetting around $40-50K a year income. Expenses at around $20-25K. The rest for travel/buffer/savings.

sol

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2012, 10:46:44 PM »
Yeah, I think most of us start with bare expenses, and then figure out what your income needs to be to support that (and whatever extra spending you want to do).

That's definitely the best way to do it.

Definitely?  I have an alternative approach.

We have a high savings rate and are watching our stash grow.  We know we want to continue working for at least a few more years.  When we tire of working, we will quit and live off of whatever income the stash can provide.  We know it will be more than we currently spend.

The independent variable for us isn't target income, or target expenses, or target nest egg.  It's length of working career.  That's the one thing we really have control of anyway, so it's the thing that floats around and dictates everything else.

arebelspy

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2012, 08:18:43 PM »
Definitely?  I have an alternative approach.

We have a high savings rate and are watching our stash grow.  We know we want to continue working for at least a few more years.  When we tire of working, we will quit and live off of whatever income the stash can provide.  We know it will be more than we currently spend.

The independent variable for us isn't target income, or target expenses, or target nest egg.  It's length of working career.  That's the one thing we really have control of anyway, so it's the thing that floats around and dictates everything else.

I disagree with the last sentence.  You have control over a lot of things, expenses moreso than anything (even length of working career - you could get fired).

Still, you say you will have more than you currently spend.  You had to start with that calculation (of expenses) to be sure.  Otherwise you wouldn't know if you could retire or not.

Once you hit the point where passive income > expenses, then sure, you can delay ER because you enjoy work.  But that's not an "alternate way" to decide your target annual income, it just means you've passed that target and are still working.  That's fine, but not particularly germane to the topic at hand.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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sol

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2012, 09:35:39 PM »
Once you hit the point where passive income > expenses, then sure, you can delay ER because you enjoy work.  But that's not an "alternate way" to decide your target annual income, it just means you've passed that target and are still working.  That's fine, but not particularly germane to the topic at hand.

Fair enough.  For me personally, it doesn't feel like a quest to hit some magic number or provide some preset income level, because I know we can always adjust our expenses later to fit whatever savings we have.  But you're correct in saying that I did have to set a floor first, so we wouldn't be out on the street if we decide to quit working sooner rather than later.

It doesn't so much feel like a decision to delay retirement because we enjoy working, it feels like a decision to retire whenever we get tired of working.  If it had to be next year, we could find a way to make it work on significantly reduced expenses.  If it's when we're 50, we'll have to buy a boat or something to soak up the surplus.

travelbug

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2012, 02:02:10 AM »
I voted 50-80k. This would give us a huge buffer to travel and invest more. We will also be selling everything and travelling long term, so all accommodation will come out of that.

If we settle somewhere, our outgoing expenses will decrease but we will always have a buffer for travel included.

That's for a family of four with two small children.

C

grantmeaname

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2012, 06:35:45 AM »
I'm with you on this part:
If it had to be next year, we could find a way to make it work on significantly reduced expenses.
But I'm confused about this one:
Quote
If it's when we're 50, we'll have to buy a boat or something to soak up the surplus.
Why wouldn't you retire when you had enough instead of working until you had so much money that you had to buy a boat with some of it? 50 is a long, long way from 36. I don't mean to criticize your choices, but if you had enough for everything but the boat at 45, why would you keep working?

sol

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2012, 09:31:01 AM »
Why wouldn't you retire when you had enough instead of working until you had so much money that you had to buy a boat with some of it?

A fair question, and perhaps one that should have been expected from a crowd of people so focused on quitting the rat race ASAP.

But not all jobs are equally soul crushing.  We both like our work, because we find it meaningful and interesting, the hours are flexible, the dress code is casual, the people are cool, and because our employer affords us a certain cachet in the social circles in which we travel.

I think it is very likely that we will work at least a few years past the point when we are financially independent, though I expect we'll cut to half time to be able to enjoy more vacations.  There are some really good parts of the job that I will miss in retirement, and they aren't necessarily things that can be easily replaced with surplus income.

arebelspy

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2012, 07:32:53 PM »
But not all jobs are equally soul crushing.  We both like our work, because we find it meaningful and interesting,  ...

Isn't that exactly what I said?

Quote
you can delay ER because you enjoy work

Which you then (sort of) disagreed with.  I think that's where the confusion came in.  If you're delaying RE while FI because you enjoy work, more power to you.  I don't know that I'll immediately RE after I hit FI.

But if you aren't doing it because you enjoy work, and you are FI... why are you still working?

If, as you say, you enjoy your job, that makes sense.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

sol

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Re: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2012, 08:55:40 PM »
Quote
you can delay ER because you enjoy work

Which you then (sort of) disagreed with.  I think that's where the confusion came in.

Sorry, I didn't realize I was arguing with you.  I agreed with your post, and meant to respond to Grant.


follicular

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2012, 11:05:20 AM »
I am curious to know why such widespread abhorrence to spending money---wasteful spending is definitely to be frowned upon, but we owe it to ourselves, friends, family to be magnanimous where possible, generous when called for and charitable always....open up your hearts and pocketbooks at the same time, why dontcha?

Devils Advocate

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2012, 12:05:02 PM »
Quote
I am curious to know why such widespread abhorrence to spending money---wasteful spending is definitely to be frowned upon, but we owe it to ourselves, friends, family to be magnanimous where possible, generous when called for and charitable always....open up your hearts and pocketbooks at the same time, why dontcha?

I don't think Mustachians are abhorrent to spending money on anything including charitable works IF it is conscientious spending. Knowing where each dollar is going and making a conscious choice about that IS what Mustachians do.

It's really not surprising to hear you say this when we found out you as a 60 year old has credit card debt.  I'm trying hard not to be judgemental here, but c'mon man!  What were you thinking?!?!?

DA

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2012, 12:07:30 PM »
I am curious to know why such widespread abhorrence to spending money---wasteful spending is definitely to be frowned upon, but we owe it to ourselves, friends, family to be magnanimous where possible, generous when called for and charitable always....open up your hearts and pocketbooks at the same time, why dontcha?

Not to speak for the others on this board, but I don't see an abhorrence of spending in these forums very often.  I think it's more often a positive focus on living simply and meaningfully and well.  For me, MMM is about getting past the clouds of marketing and crushing piles of stuff that offer short term adrenaline boosts and long term problems.

Also, while charity and generosity to family are important, I think it's important to recognize they can also be wasted or misdirected.  To bring up one of the most discussed issues on this board, there is the question of paying for a child's college education.  You may have the resources to do this, but it may not be the best thing for the kid (party time!).  Then again, depending on their personality, it may be.  The point is, you really need to examine the issue carefully to know for sure.

To me, these boards are more about questioning dominant paradigms and sharing ways to live well than about saving money for its own sake.

follicular

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2012, 12:25:04 PM »
To DA--
The cost of creating a business sometimes requires indebtedness--that's how capitalism works; no need to be the devil's advocate especially if there is nothing devilish in trying to build equity in a business and do good for others at the same time...as long as the debt is not burdensome, will be paid off and yes, benefits others, which I firmly believe it does, then there is nothing wrong with it as far as I can see.
Right?

Devils Advocate

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2012, 01:08:34 PM »
Follicular-

Quote
The cost of creating a business sometimes requires indebtedness--that's how capitalism works

I suppose...However to use credit card debt to finance any business may be considered reckless.  Especially for someone in a job that isn't stable and for someone whose retirement vehicles seem to be woefully under financed for someone contemplating retirement. 

Using credit card debt to finance a business may be a reasonable (albeit aggressive)for a younger person who has years to fix any mistakes/business losses.  In your situation from the limited amount of info received I would not be using credit cards to finance ANYTHING!

Best wishes.

DA


follicular

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2012, 03:14:06 PM »
DA--
Point well taken except when you consider that my credit card debt is averaging 3.1% per year--less than most mortgage, HELOC rates anywhere. I can keep rolling over my debt thanks to the great 12-month, 0% credit card promotional offers I constantly receive due to my 'stellar' FICO.

And get this!!! I applied for and got an SBA loan--something all small businesses lust for---at 9.75% WTS?!?! (I dont like to use the F word). How's a small business to survive and prosper like this--thank you Uncle Sam. I'll take the unsecured credit card debt and roll it ad infinitum until P-I-F.

Thanks to all

Devils Advocate

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2012, 03:49:39 PM »
Yeah, low balance credit offers used to entice me as well.  I played the game for years. The hassle isn't worth it to me anymore however.  Cash flowing expenses is much more gratifying to me now.  To each his own, and yeah, 3% interest isn't bad. 
DA

arebelspy

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Re: POLL: What's your target annual income in retirement?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2012, 07:03:17 PM »
I am curious to know why such widespread abhorrence to spending money

I don't think this forum has that at all, and looking at the poll attached to this thread, plenty of us are targeting a healthy income (only 2% as of right now responded in the extreme <15k answer).

If you think that's abhorrence to spending money that may just show how entrenched you are in a consumerism culture.

Also, don't ever visit the ERE forums.  ;)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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