Poll

I need this amount per year in retirement!

25k or less
75 (15.2%)
50k or less
257 (52.2%)
75k or less
104 (21.1%)
100k or less
38 (7.7%)
125k or less
7 (1.4%)
150k or less
5 (1%)
150k or more
6 (1.2%)

Total Members Voted: 485

Author Topic: POLL - How much per year in retirement?  (Read 18582 times)

heybro

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POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« on: May 18, 2016, 11:05:02 PM »
I need this amount per year in retirement!

boarder42

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2016, 04:34:35 AM »
50k or less without mortgage. More with but an inflation hedge and I get to fire a year earlier if I don't pay it down.

ender

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2016, 06:02:49 AM »
"150k or less" will probably fit me just fine regardless of what happens

Retire-Canada

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2016, 06:58:06 AM »
$40K after tax with mortgage.

I'm a red panda

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2016, 07:02:44 AM »
"150k or less" will probably fit me just fine regardless of what happens

I agree. Even with inflation, that will probably work out fine for my life span.
Though I suppose some of it depends on what happens with my medical bills, and if I'm paying for kids college when I'm retired.

phwadsworth

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2016, 07:27:02 AM »
I need less than $50k.
I want, and am fortunate to be able to earn, much more than that.  Will probably retire in the $125k range.

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2016, 07:41:45 AM »
Current standard of living indicates that I need less than 25k, but between 25k and 50k I have a good cushion. I'm currently in a dual income, no kids situation though - so things can always change.

nobody123

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2016, 07:49:56 AM »
I'm aiming for $100K to support the lifestyle I want, so it's what I need to feel safe enough to retire.  I like my career, so I'll just keep working until I hit that level.  Of course, as I get older, my wife and I will reevaluate the situation to try to avoid the one-more-year syndrome.

GuitarStv

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2016, 07:58:50 AM »
We could live on 30k.  40k is what I'm aiming for, and provides sizable cushion to deal with potential problems.

KMMK

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2016, 08:06:20 AM »
Planning on $20,000 in today's dollars, for myself, hopefully no mortgage.

Zikoris

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2016, 08:07:34 AM »
We spend about 27K/year now, and that includes living in the downtown core of the most expensive city in Canada and traveling overseas frequently in the most inefficient ways possible (peak seasons, expensive short term accommodation, lots of flying). No way in hell would we need more than 25K to retire.

Cannot Wait!

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2016, 08:21:26 AM »
Considering MMM spends $24,000/yr for his luxurious life, I think you need more levels added on the lower side of the poll!

I'm planning on $24,000.  But my happiness at 3 months FIREd?  Priceless! 

merlin7676

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2016, 08:36:01 AM »
25K or less.   At retirement the house will be paid off and is in a LCOL area. Other than that, don't spend a ton of money.  I'd say I could easily get by on less than 1K a month so less than 12K a year.
Of course my spouse will be contributing then too so even if we both kick in 1K each per month it's only 24K a year.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 08:31:23 AM by merlin7676 »

Koogie

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2016, 08:49:45 AM »
Need about mid to high forties net.   Looking at retiring on around 80-100 gross.   I'd Like exactly 104.. I'm anal like that... :o)


FLBiker

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2016, 08:55:30 AM »
We could live on 30k.  40k is what I'm aiming for, and provides sizable cushion to deal with potential problems.

We're in the same boat.  We currently spend somewhere between 30 and 40K in a given year, w/ a mortgage.  I make 75K, and we'll add 40K for DW when she goes back to work in a year or so.

Gimesalot

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2016, 10:34:51 AM »
Although our current lifestyle could be supported by about 45k a year, I voted for "less than 25k" because we are planning on moving out of the country to LCOL areas.

Threshkin

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2016, 12:55:41 PM »
Based on current spending + post-FIRE expenses (mainly Health Care) our anticipated spending is under $48K (inflation adjusted).  For security we are budgeting $60K.

icemodeled

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2016, 01:24:31 PM »
Easily 25k a year. The only unknown would be healthcare but otherwise would be fine with this. We're currently living on $1300 a month expenses right now. No debts. Our full retirement is awhile away so who knows how things may change as it gets closer though.

MrMoogle

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2016, 02:26:53 PM »
How much per family?  Per family member?  Per adult?  All interesting data points. 

I'm guessing the <25k is mostly single people, or with families with the house paid off.  I had originally thought the buckets were too big, but I have been proven wrong :)

jim555

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2016, 02:30:15 PM »
I "need" a lot less then I could spend, so I don't know what is being asked.

redbird

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2016, 02:38:56 PM »
Assuming I have a reasonable rent/mortgage, I can live on $2000/month, which is $24k/year. If I lived in a house that was fully paid off, you could cut that in half. I am FIRE and paying rent and I live on a $2k budget now. This is with money leftover to spend too. Some months I spend as little as $1400.

Even pre-FIRE this was how much I lived on per month. It wasn't out of necessity either - just this was about how much I've for the most part always lived on. All income above that went into savings. This is for a family of 2 adults, no kids, 1 pet bird who only costs about $60/year to feed.

We live in a LCOL area though. We've lived in super HCOL areas over the years though, and that sometimes made our monthly spending about twice as much as it is now. If you can move to a LCOL area, it is a lot easier to FIRE on a smaller monthly budget.

Easily 25k a year. The only unknown would be healthcare but otherwise would be fine with this. We're currently living on $1300 a month expenses right now. No debts. Our full retirement is awhile away so who knows how things may change as it gets closer though.

It really depends on your income, how much you're willing to pay out of pocket, etc. The amount of passive income I make from stocks/dividends is high enough to make me ineligible for Medicare, but low enough that I get some really nice ACA subsidies. None of my passive income is from property. The healthcare plan I have technically costs $400/month. With ACA subsidies, I only pay $40/month, but at tax time I get money back too from it, so it actually ends up being only $12/month.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 02:47:29 PM by redbird »

undercover

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2016, 02:52:37 PM »
Should differentiate between single and household.

Shor

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2016, 02:53:20 PM »
Operating fine on $1400 / mo now single, with rent.
$2000 per mo married sounds like it should be feasible, I mean, how much could a Mrs. Shor spend in one month? Hahaha.. (don't answer that....)

2Birds1Stone

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2016, 05:50:38 PM »
I will be barebones FI @ ~$18k/yr and plan to pull the plug on FT work at $30k/yr

heybro

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2016, 12:18:50 AM »
spartana and 2birds1stone,
i also have a yearly cost of living of under 10k, similar to you.  that is great.  i just never wanted to base retirement on only 10k though even though i can easily live below it.  so cool to hear others are living on very little as well.  woof.

Letj

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2016, 06:22:28 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.


ender

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2016, 06:36:28 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

I'm not sure if you are serious or not. You have a lot of posts on the forum though which confuses me greatly.

If a paid off house costs you nearly $20k a year, then yeah, you're going to have an expensive retirement.

Though you still spend about 3x per adult as my family does on food (only considering adults). Your car insurance and gas expenses are INSANELY expensive, too.

Retire-Canada

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2016, 08:31:43 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K.

I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

If you expect to live an average middle class life and you think you are extremely frugal I think there is a terminology problem in your post. The two are mutually exclusive. At least based on what is average behaviour in North America.

MMM posts his annual spending on his blog and is in the $25K/yr range for a family of 3 with a paid off house. You can see his annual reports and see what he spends money on.

If you are actually interested in lowering your annual cost of living post a case study and folks will help you pair down your spending.

Letj

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2016, 09:23:36 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

I'm not sure if you are serious or not. You have a lot of posts on the forum though which confuses me greatly.

If a paid off house costs you nearly $20k a year, then yeah, you're going to have an expensive retirement.

Though you still spend about 3x per adult as my family does on food (only considering adults). Your car insurance and gas expenses are INSANELY expensive, too.

Since you didn't say what about my other posts that greatly confuses you I cannot address this comment. I am not sure you even read my latest post carefully since your response doesn't make sense to me. I don't see where a paid off house is costing $20K. While I agree that my expenses are not bare minimum they represent close to what I spend today with two teenagers and very high life insurance for my partner and I because we have underage children and rental properties. Also eating farm to table is not cheap and gas and insurance  for three cars in a household isn't cheap. What's not shown  is all the other expense categories in which we are extremely frugal. For example we do our own extensive yard and house maintenance, travel on the cheap and do some major thrifting. The paid off house and the medical insurance are estimated costs in case I do decide to stop working. I still have a mortgage and my job cover the majority of medical expense right now. If I do decide to quit, I expect to live on rental income and investments.

Letj

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2016, 09:31:04 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K.

I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

If you expect to live an average middle class life and you think you are extremely frugal I think there is a terminology problem in your post. The two are mutually exclusive. At least based on what is average behaviour in North America.

MMM posts his annual spending on his blog and is in the $25K/yr range for a family of 3 with a paid off house. You can see his annual reports and see what he spends money on.

If you are actually interested in lowering your annual cost of living post a case study and folks will help you pair down your spending.

Yes I have reviewed MMM spending in detail and I will not dissect it here but suffice it to say that there are other expenses that are omitted and which likely fall under his business expenses which most people cannot do. I am not knocking him in anyway just pointing out the obvious. Also, with teenagers at home, I am sure you can imagine that one's expenses would be way more until at least they are self supporting.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2016, 09:41:08 AM »
40-45k until mortgage is paid off in 2027, then 30-35k per year.  Two adults, no kids at home.

Gunny

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2016, 10:31:50 AM »
Live on 41k per year with a mortgage.  28K if mortgage was paid off.  This is for family of three.  Could take another 20k per year from stash, but don't need it. 

tobitonic

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2016, 10:50:54 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K.

I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

If you expect to live an average middle class life and you think you are extremely frugal I think there is a terminology problem in your post. The two are mutually exclusive. At least based on what is average behaviour in North America.

MMM posts his annual spending on his blog and is in the $25K/yr range for a family of 3 with a paid off house. You can see his annual reports and see what he spends money on.

If you are actually interested in lowering your annual cost of living post a case study and folks will help you pair down your spending.

Yes I have reviewed MMM spending in detail and I will not dissect it here but suffice it to say that there are other expenses that are omitted and which likely fall under his business expenses which most people cannot do. I am not knocking him in anyway just pointing out the obvious. Also, with teenagers at home, I am sure you can imagine that one's expenses would be way more until at least they are self supporting.

Yeah, MMM isn't the best example here. There are lots of folks on the forums and in other blogs who legitimately live on less than the median annual household income without lots of shadow business expenses.

rubybeth

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2016, 11:24:25 AM »
I said $50k or under. Right now, DH and I are living on just my income (saving a bunch pre-tax), and it's been do-able but I think we would both prefer to have some extra funds for travel. Our basic budget to be able to retire is around $40k annually, but shooting for closer to $50k would mean we could take a couple very lavish international trips each year, or multiple US-based trips.

Cassie

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2016, 05:03:06 PM »
65 to 75k for 2 people.  Four years ago we lived on 40k to see if we could do it. that meant no traveling, eating out, etc. OUr health insurance premiums are 10k/year. Also we have 4 old dogs and vet bills are high here. Right now we are traveling and having experiences while we can.  It feels good to know that we can cut back if we have too.

wenchsenior

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2016, 08:38:41 AM »
LetJ, I also occasionally wonder about the people who plan to live on less than 30K.  I guess we COULD do it, but I'm not sure I want to.  We spend a bit on travel, but we aren't really typically consumptive sorts...don't spend much on clothes, toys, gadgets, etc. Food is a big expense, and could be tightened with better planning, but frankly, our grocery budget is always going to be relatively higher than is desired by many MMMers, and I'm ok with that.

But I have a hard time seeing a good path to 30K when I run the numbers...we are currently saving 40-50% of take home pay, and living in one of the cheapest cities in the country on after-savings income of 45-55K, which is our cost for 2 people + 3 cats + 1 additional person that we are partially supporting in a second household (utilities, insurance, mortgage, prop taxes, repairs, etc.).

So if you remove the support for the third person, that would shave approx. 10K off expenses. But that person is likely to live at least 15 more years, and at least SOME support will likely continue until then (depressingly, my husband will be full retirement age by then).

If both houses were paid off, then that would free up another 8K.  We could tighten a few misc. categories of spending up, too, if we had to, maybe freeing up another 3 to 5K.

Given all those caveats, we could get close to or under 30K BUT, if we had more free time, there would inevitably be some more spending to fill it. Also, I have miscellaneous health conditions that are ongoing, and expect to cost ever more money as I age. And who knows what costs aging will bring in term of my husband's health. (I suspect a lot of young people on this forum underestimate medical costs out of pocket as they age). And finally, we don't WANT to stay in this inexpensive town where the mortgages are scheduled to be paid off. Because it sucks and the idea of aging and dying here makes us miserable. But anywhere else we move, we will be spending a lot more on housing. In fact, we expect to be carrying a substantial mortgage in retirement because of this. Or spending the equivalent on rent.

So, I am aiming for similar plan to Cassie...65-75K minimum, so actually spending MORE in retirement than we currently do, and possibly spending >75K/year if we end up with very expensive housing after a move.

Whether we can achieve this goal is somewhat questionable, but this forum keeps me focused on working toward it.

BlueMR2

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2016, 09:58:23 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

Some of your costs are just really high, that's all, presuming those are monthly.  Here's a sample of the big differences with mine.
Taxes & insurance  on my home runs $250.  Maintenance varies widely, but over the first six years it's roughly an extra $100 on average for $350.
Food $400, no life insurance as it's a waste of money for us.
Utilities/Phone/Internet $150.
Car insurance (for 3 cars and the motorcycle) and gas $200

Letj

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2016, 11:39:58 AM »
LetJ, I also occasionally wonder about the people who plan to live on less than 30K.  I guess we COULD do it, but I'm not sure I want to.  We spend a bit on travel, but we aren't really typically consumptive sorts...don't spend much on clothes, toys, gadgets, etc. Food is a big expense, and could be tightened with better planning, but frankly, our grocery budget is always going to be relatively higher than is desired by many MMMers, and I'm ok with that.

But I have a hard time seeing a good path to 30K when I run the numbers...we are currently saving 40-50% of take home pay, and living in one of the cheapest cities in the country on after-savings income of 45-55K, which is our cost for 2 people + 3 cats + 1 additional person that we are partially supporting in a second household (utilities, insurance, mortgage, prop taxes, repairs, etc.).

So if you remove the support for the third person, that would shave approx. 10K off expenses. But that person is likely to live at least 15 more years, and at least SOME support will likely continue until then (depressingly, my husband will be full retirement age by then).

If both houses were paid off, then that would free up another 8K.  We could tighten a few misc. categories of spending up, too, if we had to, maybe freeing up another 3 to 5K.

Given all those caveats, we could get close to or under 30K BUT, if we had more free time, there would inevitably be some more spending to fill it. Also, I have miscellaneous health conditions that are ongoing, and expect to cost ever more money as I age. And who knows what costs aging will bring in term of my husband's health. (I suspect a lot of young people on this forum underestimate medical costs out of pocket as they age). And finally, we don't WANT to stay in this inexpensive town where the mortgages are scheduled to be paid off. Because it sucks and the idea of aging and dying here makes us miserable. But anywhere else we move, we will be spending a lot more on housing. In fact, we expect to be carrying a substantial mortgage in retirement because of this. Or spending the equivalent on rent.

So, I am aiming for similar plan to Cassie...65-75K minimum, so actually spending MORE in retirement than we currently do, and possibly spending >75K/year if we end up with very expensive housing after a move.

Whether we can achieve this goal is somewhat questionable, but this forum keeps me focused on working toward it.

It certainly possible but takes sacrifice. Like you I spend very little outside the necessities.  We save the equivalent of my salary and live on income from our rental business. Some MMMers forget that having children, particularly teenagers/college age could add quite a bit. Even when my house is paid off and children are self supporting I think all in I would like to have about $75K so I don't have to scrimp and I can enjoy some travel. The biggest wild card would be the cost of health insurance. I plan to budget between $2000 to $2,500 if I retire early.

Letj

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2016, 11:49:51 AM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

Some of your costs are just really high, that's all, presuming those are monthly.  Here's a sample of the big differences with mine.
Taxes & insurance  on my home runs $250.  Maintenance varies widely, but over the first six years it's roughly an extra $100 on average for $350.
Food $400, no life insurance as it's a waste of money for us.
Utilities/Phone/Internet $150.
Car insurance (for 3 cars and the motorcycle) and gas $200

Just to get a bit more granular. My property tax is $6,000 a year on a house worth about $550K. Cable/internet/home phone $150, cell phone for 4 people $200 includes phone plans, food $1000, life insurance and long term care $600( a lot of insurance but I have a rental business and my husband manages mostly since I work. If something happens to him we can be screwed), gas heat and water in the winter for 4,000 sq ft $700, non winter months $130. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture and I haven't included all the kid related activities and other expenses. I plan on selling my house in the near future but I got it so insanely cheap during the Great Recession it was worth every penny.

Jeremy E.

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2016, 12:06:54 PM »
$15,000/year is my magic number

neo von retorch

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2016, 12:43:44 PM »
Quote
extremely frugal
...
$550K home
...
spend very little outside the necessities
...
Property taxes $500
insurance, maintenance $100
Food $1000
life and TLC insurance $500 $600
Health insurance premium and out of pocket $2,500
Utilities $450
Cell Phone $200
phone/cable $150
Car insurance and gas $700

Monthly Total: $6200
Annual cost: $74,400

Just so I understand correctly, you spend $30,000 on health insurance premiums and expenses?
Not to mention over $8000 on car insurance and gas?

The fact that you own a high-cost home isn't even the issue. Your property costs aren't outrageous. Your utilities are high, though I'd love to know "actual annual expense" rather than estimates like $450 or "sometimes $700, sometimes $130." And actual car insurance vs gas costs. How many miles does your family drive each month?

At $0.57 / mile, $700 would cover 1200 miles per month... but since we're only talking insurance and gas, not the cost of the car, maintenance, oil or repairs, we're probably talking about $0.2 mile or 3500 miles each month (100 miles / day.)

Hopefully you live in a very, very high cost-of-living (and very high income) area, or this whole set of numbers is truly mind-numbing.

Cassie

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2016, 12:51:26 PM »
I do think younger people do not think about the cost of health care as they age. My dental insurance paid 1500 and I had to have 33k worth of dental work done. There was no way to spread it out for a few years. That was on top of our normal budget. I have a few friends with cancer that spend a fortune even with insurance.

Threshkin

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2016, 12:55:53 PM »
I do think younger people do not think about the cost of health care as they age. My dental insurance paid 1500 and I had to have 33k worth of dental work done. There was no way to spread it out for a few years. That was on top of our normal budget. I have a few friends with cancer that spend a fortune even with insurance.

I budget $1,000 per month for health insurance alone.  Out of pocket, Dental and Vision not included.

Edit: This is for two people.

Makes me think hard about retiring overseas!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 01:46:24 PM by Threshkin »

Cassie

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2016, 12:59:22 PM »
Our insurance alone costs 10k/year for 2 people.

CmFtns

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2016, 01:01:32 PM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

Some of your costs are just really high, that's all, presuming those are monthly.  Here's a sample of the big differences with mine.
Taxes & insurance  on my home runs $250.  Maintenance varies widely, but over the first six years it's roughly an extra $100 on average for $350.
Food $400, no life insurance as it's a waste of money for us.
Utilities/Phone/Internet $150.
Car insurance (for 3 cars and the motorcycle) and gas $200

Just to get a bit more granular. My property tax is $6,000 a year on a house worth about $550K. Cable/internet/home phone $150, cell phone for 4 people $200 includes phone plans, food $1000, life insurance and long term care $600( a lot of insurance but I have a rental business and my husband manages mostly since I work. If something happens to him we can be screwed), gas heat and water in the winter for 4,000 sq ft $700, non winter months $130. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture and I haven't included all the kid related activities and other expenses. I plan on selling my house in the near future but I got it so insanely cheap during the Great Recession it was worth every penny.

You wonder how people do it...

Cut cable/phone & only keep internet           = $50/mo => 100/mo savings
Cheaper cell phones $25/person                  = $100/mo => 100/mo savings
Cut your grocery bill to 125/person/mo       = $500/mo => 500/mo savings
Retired means don't need life insurance       = $0/mo    => 600/mo savings
Keep the house colder in winter (blankets)  =400/mo => 300/mo savings

There's $19,200 off your yearly expenses right there and that doesn't count the huge drop in expenses once you no longer support your children...

You might not choose to do it but this is expenses many people here live on.

wenchsenior

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2016, 01:35:11 PM »
I do think younger people do not think about the cost of health care as they age. My dental insurance paid 1500 and I had to have 33k worth of dental work done. There was no way to spread it out for a few years. That was on top of our normal budget. I have a few friends with cancer that spend a fortune even with insurance.

I budget $1,000 per month for health insurance alone.  Out of pocket, Dental and Vision not included.

Makes me think hard about retiring overseas!

Yeah, we have relatively good insurance through the Feds, but it covers squat in terms of dental and vision. This year so far, we've spent 5.5K (including premiums of $500/month) for very basic medical care: an annual physical with full lab panels for my husband, eye exams for us both, and an annual ob/gyn exam for me that included a bit of lab work and a heinously expensive ultrasound (which I need to have done every few years)>

We still haven't done dental cleanings, which will cost several hundred bucks.

Then I need to get a full physical, with lab panels, since my last was 2.5 years ago.

Then there are the procedures the doctors are always pressuring me to get. Mammogram doesn't cost so much, but I'm planning to have one only every third year. Docs also harass me to get an annual MRI (~900$ out of pocket). Then there's the very expensive, uninsured medication (200$/month) that I should really start taking for a chronic condition. I've put that off for about 4 years, but can't put it off any more...

So I expect another 6-8K of medical costs just this year. And this is with relatively good insurance!

Letj

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2016, 04:05:33 PM »
Quote
extremely frugal
...
$550K home
...
spend very little outside the necessities
...
Property taxes $500
insurance, maintenance $100
Food $1000
life and TLC insurance $500 $600
Health insurance premium and out of pocket $2,500
Utilities $450
Cell Phone $200
phone/cable $150
Car insurance and gas $700

Monthly Total: $6200
Annual cost: $74,400

Just so I understand correctly, you spend $30,000 on health insurance premiums and expenses?
Not to mention over $8000 on car insurance and gas?

The fact that you own a high-cost home isn't even the issue. Your property costs aren't outrageous. Your utilities are high, though I'd love to know "actual annual expense" rather than estimates like $450 or "sometimes $700, sometimes $130." And actual car insurance vs gas costs. How many miles does your family drive each month?

At $0.57 / mile, $700 would cover 1200 miles per month... but since we're only talking insurance and gas, not the cost of the car, maintenance, oil or repairs, we're probably talking about $0.2 mile or 3500 miles each month (100 miles / day.)

Hopefully you live in a very, very high cost-of-living (and very high income) area, or this whole set of numbers is truly mind-numbing.

I am sorry but I can't rehash this again. You need to read my original posts and follow up posts carefully. The medical insurance is only an estimate if I were to stop working. The cost is gas, maintained and insurance for 3 cars that are used daily to get back and forth to work and school. The cost is not so far fetched. The $450 for utilities is a monthly estimate when you smooth out the annual costs. I have a large house that's 100 years old so not energy efficient and I keep it at 73 in the winter. I could do better there for sure.

Letj

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2016, 04:11:47 PM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

Some of your costs are just really high, that's all, presuming those are monthly.  Here's a sample of the big differences with mine.
Taxes & insurance  on my home runs $250.  Maintenance varies widely, but over the first six years it's roughly an extra $100 on average for $350.
Food $400, no life insurance as it's a waste of money for us.
Utilities/Phone/Internet $150.
Car insurance (for 3 cars and the motorcycle) and gas $200

Just to get a bit more granular. My property tax is $6,000 a year on a house worth about $550K. Cable/internet/home phone $150, cell phone for 4 people $200 includes phone plans, food $1000, life insurance and long term care $600( a lot of insurance but I have a rental business and my husband manages mostly since I work. If something happens to him we can be screwed), gas heat and water in the winter for 4,000 sq ft $700, non winter months $130. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture and I haven't included all the kid related activities and other expenses. I plan on selling my house in the near future but I got it so insanely cheap during the Great Recession it was worth every penny.

You wonder how people do it...

Cut cable/phone & only keep internet           = $50/mo => 100/mo savings
Cheaper cell phones $25/person                  = $100/mo => 100/mo savings
Cut your grocery bill to 125/person/mo       = $500/mo => 500/mo savings
Retired means don't need life insurance       = $0/mo    => 600/mo savings
Keep the house colder in winter (blankets)  =400/mo => 300/mo savings

There's $19,200 off your yearly expenses right there and that doesn't count the huge drop in expenses once you no longer support your children...

You might not choose to do it but this is expenses many people here live on.

I hear you and I am taking notes. I plan to stop working in the next 3 years but I plan to keep the LTC and life insurance. My husband does most of the maintenance and management of the rentals. The life insurance is equivalent of the payoff amount on the mortgage for the rentals.

aFrugalFather

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2016, 04:52:49 PM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

Some of your costs are just really high, that's all, presuming those are monthly.  Here's a sample of the big differences with mine.
Taxes & insurance  on my home runs $250.  Maintenance varies widely, but over the first six years it's roughly an extra $100 on average for $350.
Food $400, no life insurance as it's a waste of money for us.
Utilities/Phone/Internet $150.
Car insurance (for 3 cars and the motorcycle) and gas $200

Just to get a bit more granular. My property tax is $6,000 a year on a house worth about $550K. Cable/internet/home phone $150, cell phone for 4 people $200 includes phone plans, food $1000, life insurance and long term care $600( a lot of insurance but I have a rental business and my husband manages mostly since I work. If something happens to him we can be screwed), gas heat and water in the winter for 4,000 sq ft $700, non winter months $130. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture and I haven't included all the kid related activities and other expenses. I plan on selling my house in the near future but I got it so insanely cheap during the Great Recession it was worth every penny.

You wonder how people do it...

Cut cable/phone & only keep internet           = $50/mo => 100/mo savings
Cheaper cell phones $25/person                  = $100/mo => 100/mo savings
Cut your grocery bill to 125/person/mo       = $500/mo => 500/mo savings
Retired means don't need life insurance       = $0/mo    => 600/mo savings
Keep the house colder in winter (blankets)  =400/mo => 300/mo savings

There's $19,200 off your yearly expenses right there and that doesn't count the huge drop in expenses once you no longer support your children...

You might not choose to do it but this is expenses many people here live on.

I hear you and I am taking notes. I plan to stop working in the next 3 years but I plan to keep the LTC and life insurance. My husband does most of the maintenance and management of the rentals. The life insurance is equivalent of the payoff amount on the mortgage for the rentals.

I think its still not coming through as to why you need insurance.  As above, retired typically means you or him are not working.  Managing and maintaining rentals isn't technically retired.  It would seem (based on the limited info provided) that if your husband wasn't around you could get a property management company to take 10% of rent and be in the same position.  It seems that by structuring a windfall from insurance to pay off mortgages that something isn't computing.  If they need to be paid off before retirement then that does not go to the original question, as to what is needed in retirement.  Also not sure why kids expenses would still be included.  Its just not making much sense which is why everyone is so confused about your numbers. 

Letj

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Re: POLL - How much per year in retirement?
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2016, 06:00:21 PM »
I am very curious on how anyone can retire on so little. I am extremely frugal but there's no way in hell I can keep my basic expenses under $73K. Let's start with the assumption that I am responsible for medical coverage for a family of four, I have no mortgage and I drive a paid for car.

Property taxes, insurance, maintenance 600
Food/life and TLC insurance 1,500 (cook most of my food and eat farm to table mostly)
Health insurance premium and out of pocket 2,500
Utilities/phone/cable 800 (family of four and older home with gas heat)
Car insurance and gas $700 (teenage driver and one more to go)

And I haven't even added all the other expenses like car for teenagers, incidentals, entertainment, travel, allowances for teenagers, clothes, etc. I am honestly baffled. I can only assume that most of those taking the poll live in very low cost area, are mostly single, not living an average middle class life, do not own cars, do not travel, grow their own food, etc.

Some of your costs are just really high, that's all, presuming those are monthly.  Here's a sample of the big differences with mine.
Taxes & insurance  on my home runs $250.  Maintenance varies widely, but over the first six years it's roughly an extra $100 on average for $350.
Food $400, no life insurance as it's a waste of money for us.
Utilities/Phone/Internet $150.
Car insurance (for 3 cars and the motorcycle) and gas $200

Just to get a bit more granular. My property tax is $6,000 a year on a house worth about $550K. Cable/internet/home phone $150, cell phone for 4 people $200 includes phone plans, food $1000, life insurance and long term care $600( a lot of insurance but I have a rental business and my husband manages mostly since I work. If something happens to him we can be screwed), gas heat and water in the winter for 4,000 sq ft $700, non winter months $130. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture and I haven't included all the kid related activities and other expenses. I plan on selling my house in the near future but I got it so insanely cheap during the Great Recession it was worth every penny.

You wonder how people do it...

Cut cable/phone & only keep internet           = $50/mo => 100/mo savings
Cheaper cell phones $25/person                  = $100/mo => 100/mo savings
Cut your grocery bill to 125/person/mo       = $500/mo => 500/mo savings
Retired means don't need life insurance       = $0/mo    => 600/mo savings
Keep the house colder in winter (blankets)  =400/mo => 300/mo savings

There's $19,200 off your yearly expenses right there and that doesn't count the huge drop in expenses once you no longer support your children...

You might not choose to do it but this is expenses many people here live on.

I hear you and I am taking notes. I plan to stop working in the next 3 years but I plan to keep the LTC and life insurance. My husband does most of the maintenance and management of the rentals. The life insurance is equivalent of the payoff amount on the mortgage for the rentals.

I think its still not coming through as to why you need insurance.  As above, retired typically means you or him are not working.  Managing and maintaining rentals isn't technically retired.  It would seem (based on the limited info provided) that if your husband wasn't around you could get a property management company to take 10% of rent and be in the same position.  It seems that by structuring a windfall from insurance to pay off mortgages that something isn't computing.  If they need to be paid off before retirement then that does not go to the original question, as to what is needed in retirement.  Also not sure why kids expenses would still be included.  Its just not making much sense which is why everyone is so confused about your numbers.

Ok hopefully this clears it up. We were a one income family when we first started a family and my husband stayed home with the children so we each had substantial life insurance for obvious reasons. We then started investing in real estate which we grew substantially and which can support us with a very good lifestyle if I were to retire. In the meantime we've used the profits to continually acquire new properties, refinance and acquire more. Because my husband does much of the remodel and maintenance we've been able to have a much greater ROI and greater rental profits. He is very skilled and does everything from electrical to plumbing. If he can no longer do this our profits and ROI would take a big hit. The properties are class C and located in the inner city and have mostly section 8 so maintenance is very high since tenants are hard on them. These are not the kind of properties you can use a property manager to manage. The management is just too intense. I am unlikely to continue this business if my husband isn't around to help and vice versa since we work closely as a team. We have several dozen properties and this great cash flow will disappear if neither me nor my husband can do this so we've decided that we should hang on to our life insurance. We have been focused on acquisition for the last 8 years so we are just beginning to use our substantial cash flow in alternative investments.  I know you could pick this apart but it is the decision we've made because it feels right. I know the snipets I have provided does not provide enough context or background and hence the confusion. Maybe I'll start my own journal if I can find some time.