Author Topic: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?  (Read 1538 times)

jamesbond007

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Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« on: August 15, 2019, 11:50:15 AM »
Some context:


I have a Master's in CS and I've been in the tech industry for about 11 years in a Product Manager role. I am stuck in this and am burned out as there is no career growth happening. Pretty much every title upwards needs an MBA. Getting interviews is getting harder and harder. Not to mention the age-ism that is prevalent in tech.


Due to reasons above, I've been thinking about getting an MBA part-time, while I am working full time, to propel my career further. That would cost me another $100K or so and about 3 years worth of time. It could set back my FI plans by about 4 more years. But I need a change. The only problem is I am on a Visa and mobility would be a big issue until I get through the green card system.


I don't know what to do.

partdopy

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2019, 01:04:39 PM »
It seems odd that any upward growth from product manager necessitates an MBA for you.  I'm attending a professional MBA program for Enterprise IT Management at the moment (funded by my GI Bill), and I'm actually in the same program as 4 people with whom I work, the VP of IT Strategy and 3 department directors, all of which are higher level than product manager.

While you may be right that it will propel your career forward, is that really worth setting your long term goals back 4 years?  If I were you, I'd try to change employers locally to one that will pay for your education.

foghorn

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2019, 01:23:28 PM »
That is a great question.

I have an MBA and I guess it was worth it, but not because I learned anything while getting it.  I think it was worth it because it allowed me to apply for  jobs that required it.  Sadly, it was/is part of playing the game.  If a job requirement is having an MBA, then I was able to apply and interview for that job. 

Never once have I sat at my desk and think about how I am applying anything I learned in grad school to what I am doing at that moment.  Today, I think the only MBA's that are worth it are the ones from truly Top Tier schools.  Again, not that the people coming out of them are necessarily any smarter, but companies tend to look at Harvard, Wharton, Kellogg, etc. grads as something special.

Where I work, those people are on automatic tracks to higher levels and leadership.  Some really are smart.  Others, not any better than anyone else.

So, if your current employer has a hard and fast rule that only MBA's can move up - you will need to decide if it is worth it.  If you can achieve career advancement at another company - that may be the better/easier/cheaper path.

Lastly, I assume (based on your writing) that you current company will not pay for an MBA?

Tuskalusa

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2019, 01:32:28 PM »
I got an MBA in my late 20ís. It was the best decision I ever made, with some caveats:

- I went full time so I could get my degree quickly and not lose a lot of time out of work
- I went to a state school to keep costs low
- I went to a top rated school with solid recruiting support
- I took a TA job, which reduced my tuition, paid a stipend, and provided medical coverage

I donít necessarily see an ROI in $100K for an MBA mid-career, unless you have plans to jump jobs or industry. That a huge cost that may not be covered without a big change.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2019, 01:47:15 PM »
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Donít do it! Please donít do it!

Unless youíre going to one of the top MBA programs (Ivy league level), donít waste your money. The only reason those programs have any weight is the connections you might make that could lead to a better job. Thatís it. Otherwise everything that youíd learn you can learn in a ton of different ways for free.

I wouldnít recommend wasting your time or money with one. Google alternatives, take out some books and do a self inventory, where are your gaps: finance, marketing, strategy? There are lots of courses that can address that. If itís networking, get out and join member groups in areas youíre interested in. Learn to use LinkedIn strategically. The type of person who is driven and smart enough to actually use an MBA well is the same person who doesnít need one, but needs to put their energy into acquiring the same knowledge and skills using other sources. Theyíre out there, youíve got this!

ditheca

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2019, 03:12:07 PM »
I'm halfway through an MBA program at Southern Utah University via online classes.  My total cost for the degree is about $20k (and almost all of it is being funded by my employer)

At those prices, "worth it" becomes a question of time rather than money.  I'm satisfied with what I'm learning.

cangelosibrown

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2019, 04:57:34 PM »
Don't have an MBA, but considered it at one point and decided it wasn't worth it. You say it'll take 3 years and delay FI by 4 years. How many years are you from FI now? Obviously if you're 5 years away, and you won't see any benefit for 3 years, and then will have to work an extra 4 years it isn't worth it. That math changes as the years away increase, but only you can say where the break point is for you. I was too close to FI for it to be worth it for me.

Other question: you're talking about spending 100k and 3 years of part time work on something. I'll bet if you sat down and thought about it, you could think of more productive things to do with that money and time. Things that'd get you closer to FI, not further away. And would satisfy your need for change.

jamesbond007

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2019, 05:20:29 PM »
Thanks for the inputs. Many employers in my area don't pay for MBAs. It has to be paid out of my own pocket. The $100K I mentioned maybe on the higher end but I had top tier schools in mind because in my line of work, those are the ones that matter. granted that there is no guarantee that I will get into those schools, but I thought maybe they're worth a try.

I am as of today's market conditions, 3.6 years away from FI. My original goal was FIRE by 2025. Thanks to the market conditions over the last 2 years I am ahead. but again a recession will most likely set it back to 2025 So let's say I am 6 years away from FI. I cannot RE until I get my green card. I need to be working in a job to be in the US legally. OR I convert to a student visa and be in the country legally. But full time student is not an option as I have a family to feed. DW cannot work as she is on dependent visa, although she is super highly skilled and has a Master's degree. DD was born here and start school this year. So going full student is not an option unless I eat into my savings and set back my FI timeline by a few more years.

I will look into alternatives but I am not sure how to get past the "MBA from top tier school required" firewall that get's posted as a requirement for senior level career jobs in the tech world.

Most people I know with titles of Director/Sr. Director/VP either has an MBA or ran a startup and saw an exit. For me, running a startup legally while in H1B visa is not an option. So the only other option is an MBA. That's where this thought came from.

twe

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2019, 06:52:56 PM »
I agree with @MrThatsDifferent and @foghorn . There are no more than 10-12 MBA programs in the US, and about that many internationally, worth that kind of money. You mentioned ageism-the fact is that an MBA at your age (I'm assuming at least 35 based off MA + 11 years work experience) and a 4 year program means that employers won't look at it the same way as someone younger. The sweet spot for MBA is 26-30 entry into the program, 28-32 graduation.

You may consider an EMBA which gives a wider age range and is more targeted to working professionals, but again only from a top program. Otherwise, very little value especially if you're in the kind of tech I assume you are.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2019, 12:59:02 AM »
Thanks for the inputs. Many employers in my area don't pay for MBAs. It has to be paid out of my own pocket. The $100K I mentioned maybe on the higher end but I had top tier schools in mind because in my line of work, those are the ones that matter. granted that there is no guarantee that I will get into those schools, but I thought maybe they're worth a try.

I am as of today's market conditions, 3.6 years away from FI. My original goal was FIRE by 2025. Thanks to the market conditions over the last 2 years I am ahead. but again a recession will most likely set it back to 2025 So let's say I am 6 years away from FI. I cannot RE until I get my green card. I need to be working in a job to be in the US legally. OR I convert to a student visa and be in the country legally. But full time student is not an option as I have a family to feed. DW cannot work as she is on dependent visa, although she is super highly skilled and has a Master's degree. DD was born here and start school this year. So going full student is not an option unless I eat into my savings and set back my FI timeline by a few more years.

I will look into alternatives but I am not sure how to get past the "MBA from top tier school required" firewall that get's posted as a requirement for senior level career jobs in the tech world.

Most people I know with titles of Director/Sr. Director/VP either has an MBA or ran a startup and saw an exit. For me, running a startup legally while in H1B visa is not an option. So the only other option is an MBA. That's where this thought came from.

Well,  now Iím confused.  You want to FIRE in 6 years, and figure out a way to live in the US legally through work at a senior executive level and you think you need a MBA for that? And you want to self-fund a part-time degree to make this happen? There are a lot of variables there. It seems what youíre trying to achieve is pretty precarious and there is little certainty. Surely the only pathway to living in the US isnít getting a MBA and having a senior executive role? Also, have you challenged the need to live in the US?  Have you spoken to an immigration lawyer to review all the options if youíre dead set on the US? $100k is a big commitment when youíre so close to FIRE. Iíd spend a lot of time on this issue and work out plans A-D, not box yourself with one option. You might need flexibility in your planning.

Sonos

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2019, 02:17:47 AM »
I got my MBA while working as a PM (at the time, my role was called something different, but it was essentially a product manager role). I did an 18-month program that was made for mid-career folks who were still working while in school. At this point I was 10 years into my career and had a BS in CS.

My MBA has definitely helped me move up as a PM at high tech companies.
My school is a highly ranked public university, but not an Ivy League school, but itís still been very helpful. Getting my MBA in the city where I planned to grow my career was helpful, because my MBA network is largely concentrated here and as someone said earlier, your MBA network is very valuable.
Beyond my MBA network, I felt that my actual education was worthwhile for the roles I was pursuing.
I had several people try to dissuade me from getting an MBA, saying I could learn that it information on my own. Thatís true for any subject/advanced degree. But, a formal program of learning is well designed and the discussions with the professors and your fellow students would be hard to duplicate outside of a program. And a program gives you that MBA stamp so possible employers know that youíve thoroughly studied the topics important to them/a role.

So, in my experience, which sounds similar to yours, an MBA was totally worth it (and I found the course work very interesting). That said, if it will be a financial burden, itís fair to look at alternatives. But, sounds like you really want to move up in your current career path and an MBA is a clear way to do that.
,


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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2019, 10:44:58 AM »
Am going to start working on an online MBA soon from Syracuse. I have GI Bill btw, not sure I would even consider it if it wasn't 80% paid for plus a stipend from Uncle Sam.

Here's my rationale for getting this Masters: It's a check in the box. I don't believe this degree is going to propel me to some corner office in Manhattan, but it will automatically put me in the running for a lot of new jobs, and hopefully higher pay. The Bachelors is the new HS diploma, so I think playing the game and getting the piece of paper is a smart play if you don't take it too seriously and don't blow too much money on it.

jamesbond007

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2019, 10:52:51 AM »
Thanks for the inputs. Many employers in my area don't pay for MBAs. It has to be paid out of my own pocket. The $100K I mentioned maybe on the higher end but I had top tier schools in mind because in my line of work, those are the ones that matter. granted that there is no guarantee that I will get into those schools, but I thought maybe they're worth a try.

I am as of today's market conditions, 3.6 years away from FI. My original goal was FIRE by 2025. Thanks to the market conditions over the last 2 years I am ahead. but again a recession will most likely set it back to 2025 So let's say I am 6 years away from FI. I cannot RE until I get my green card. I need to be working in a job to be in the US legally. OR I convert to a student visa and be in the country legally. But full time student is not an option as I have a family to feed. DW cannot work as she is on dependent visa, although she is super highly skilled and has a Master's degree. DD was born here and start school this year. So going full student is not an option unless I eat into my savings and set back my FI timeline by a few more years.

I will look into alternatives but I am not sure how to get past the "MBA from top tier school required" firewall that get's posted as a requirement for senior level career jobs in the tech world.

Most people I know with titles of Director/Sr. Director/VP either has an MBA or ran a startup and saw an exit. For me, running a startup legally while in H1B visa is not an option. So the only other option is an MBA. That's where this thought came from.

Well,  now Iím confused.  You want to FIRE in 6 years, and figure out a way to live in the US legally through work at a senior executive level and you think you need a MBA for that? And you want to self-fund a part-time degree to make this happen? There are a lot of variables there. It seems what youíre trying to achieve is pretty precarious and there is little certainty. Surely the only pathway to living in the US isnít getting a MBA and having a senior executive role? Also, have you challenged the need to live in the US?  Have you spoken to an immigration lawyer to review all the options if youíre dead set on the US? $100k is a big commitment when youíre so close to FIRE. Iíd spend a lot of time on this issue and work out plans A-D, not box yourself with one option. You might need flexibility in your planning.

I agree. That's why I posted here. I knew that I am not thinking straight. The problem is I cannot RE until I get my green card. DD was born here. We enjoy the freedom and privacy here. Unless they push me out of this country with some weird law, we are not moving. So I have to be working until I get my green card.

Having said that, if push comes to shove, I will take all my money to my home country and never ever work again. I do have that leverage.

BrightFIRE

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2019, 11:49:41 AM »
Are you sure you need a MBA specifically? I mean, most places that want an advanced degree to prove you have the wherewithal to get a degree don't usually care what the degree is in. You have a Masters already. I don't have a MBA, but my Masters is completely unrelated to my work - they just wanted to see the degree (any degree).

Have you applied for these jobs and been literally told that you weren't considered because you didn't have a MBA or has this been your assumption? Not getting an interview sucks, but you likely don't know the reason why unless you asked. It's human nature to look for reasons and make assumptions, but you might be making the wrong assumptions.

Do you have a mentor, someone you can ask for candid feedback? Or could you talk to your manager about what you need to do to move up? You think your problem is the lack of a MBA and age, when it might be something else - maybe you don't communicate ideas clearly or you do/don't do something else that doesn't fit with their idea of a leader. I'm not clear if you're only applying internally, or externally as well.

Separately, if you can't RE until you get your green card, why don't you throw your extra money and time at that problem for a while and see if you can make progress there - maybe that will help you feel less stuck.

WSUCoug1994

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2019, 12:16:13 PM »
I tend to agree with BrightFire.  I have been doing executive level product searches (Chief Product Officer, SVP, Product, SVP/GM) for the last 25 years in Silicon Valley for both B2B and B2C companies.  MBA is rarely if ever a hard requirement.  It is certainly a "nice to have" in the eyes of my clients but no one ever has it as a hard requirement.  I could show you 100's of top product leaders in the Valley that don't have an MBA.

My recommendation is to start having some direct conversations with your manager and find out why you haven't progressed.  It could be a reflection of the company or could be related to some blind spots as compared to your peer group. 

BicycleB

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2019, 01:42:20 PM »
I apologize in adavance if I'm looking at this from the wrong angle. It sounds like the main problem is that you don't have a path to a green card, so you need to keep working indefinitely on your H1B visa. Am I understanding correctly?

If so:
1. What does your immigration attorney say about how to get a green card? Is it a possibility?
2. Is the MBA designed to ensure you remain employed, or to help find more fulfilling work?

I focus on the questions above because it seems like your finances are well in hand, assuming you do retain your employment.

jamesbond007

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2019, 02:27:25 PM »
I apologize in adavance if I'm looking at this from the wrong angle. It sounds like the main problem is that you don't have a path to a green card, so you need to keep working indefinitely on your H1B visa. Am I understanding correctly?

If so:
1. What does your immigration attorney say about how to get a green card? Is it a possibility?
2. Is the MBA designed to ensure you remain employed, or to help find more fulfilling work?

I focus on the questions above because it seems like your finances are well in hand, assuming you do retain your employment.

1. My green card is already in process. It will come but it will take it's own sweet time. There's nothing I can do about it.
2. MBA for more fulfilling work.

I guess part of the reason I thought about an MBA is also kind of tied to my green card. My employer told me on my face that since I have a green card dependency, I should not be expecting big raises or promotions as long as I am here. I don't know if they can do that legally as I have no documentation. So it causing me immense stress in my personal life and I want to keep myself engaged and at the same time improve my career prospects in whichever way I can. Yes, I could change employers but I have to start my green card processing again and it  sill set me back another year and no guarantees that my new employer wouldn't treat me the same.

You might sense that my posts are chaotic, which they are. But there's a lot of things going on due my employer and my green card situation. I apologize if this is too much of personal information to share.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2019, 02:49:23 PM »
I apologize in adavance if I'm looking at this from the wrong angle. It sounds like the main problem is that you don't have a path to a green card, so you need to keep working indefinitely on your H1B visa. Am I understanding correctly?

If so:
1. What does your immigration attorney say about how to get a green card? Is it a possibility?
2. Is the MBA designed to ensure you remain employed, or to help find more fulfilling work?

I focus on the questions above because it seems like your finances are well in hand, assuming you do retain your employment.

1. My green card is already in process. It will come but it will take it's own sweet time. There's nothing I can do about it.
2. MBA for more fulfilling work.

I guess part of the reason I thought about an MBA is also kind of tied to my green card. My employer told me on my face that since I have a green card dependency, I should not be expecting big raises or promotions as long as I am here. I don't know if they can do that legally as I have no documentation. So it causing me immense stress in my personal life and I want to keep myself engaged and at the same time improve my career prospects in whichever way I can. Yes, I could change employers but I have to start my green card processing again and it  sill set me back another year and no guarantees that my new employer wouldn't treat me the same.

You might sense that my posts are chaotic, which they are. But there's a lot of things going on due my employer and my green card situation. I apologize if this is too much of personal information to share.

Ok, I think Iím getting this now. Your path to the green card is in progress. Well, thatís good, check.

Now, youíre concerned that you wonít be able to advance because your manager is holding the green card over your head. Well, that sucks of course. But, focus on one, the fact that youíre going to be FI in 6 years. You donít really need those promotions do you? Sure, theyíd be nice but itís only 6 years, itíll fly. Second, once you get your green card, your opportunities should open up and there are ways you can strategize trying to get a promotion beyond your manager. You donít need to rush it.

Back to the MBA, well, you donít need this for your main objective, staying in the US.  The MBA is a nice to have so once you can work without worry, you are thinking of getting a promotion and/or you want to stay intellectually engaged while waiting for your green card or while not being engaged enough at work. There are other ways you can stay in engaged mentally. As mentioned, you can learn a lot online, you could also take classes at a local university or online to fill gaps. You could volunteer to work for a charity. Could you start your own side hustle or business? Maybe engage an executive or career coach to assist you.

End of the day, you donít need the MBA. Thatís important because it means you donít need to spend $100k, especially if your situation is a bit precarious and you may need that money if anything goes south. Otherwise that money is going to help you become FI faster, making it easier to deal with shitty managers and employers. Donít lose sight of that and donít make you or your family anymore vulnerable than you already are. Youíre smart, use that to figure out ways to get what you want with minimal risk.

DeepEllumStache

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2019, 03:13:34 PM »
An MBA will not guarantee you a path upwards. It leads to some cool options and checks a box, but that's it. The real decision comes down to your own personal circumstances, career goals, and timelines.

One of the recently retired posters (chasesfish) also wrote about not getting an MBA and had some good points.

I did get an MBA from a lower cost tier 2 state school and do not regret the decision. My undergrad was in Liberal Arts and the degree opened doors that would never have opened without it. But I haven't made it further up the ladder 10 years later despite many years of trying. And a name brand degree from a tier 1 school wouldn't have made the difference either.

My sister did not get an MBA but it hasn't stopped her career at her tech company. She's made it much further up the ladder in a shorter amount of time. She moved around a few companies before finding one that invested in her, leading to some fast promotions as they realized how good she is with people in general. Her mentor said an MBA would become required for her to reach the C-suite. She was considering an EMBA but now her company is discussing sending her abroad for an assignment so that plan is going to the backburner for now.

If the company wants to promote you, not having that box checked won't stop them until you hit the really highest levels. If your mentors are saying the MBA is a necessity to move up, consider an EMBA. But if your company is just using the green card bit as a weak excuse to not give you raises, the MBA wouldn't change that.

BicycleB

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2019, 03:33:16 PM »
I apologize in adavance if I'm looking at this from the wrong angle. It sounds like the main problem is that you don't have a path to a green card, so you need to keep working indefinitely on your H1B visa. Am I understanding correctly?

If so:
1. What does your immigration attorney say about how to get a green card? Is it a possibility?
2. Is the MBA designed to ensure you remain employed, or to help find more fulfilling work?

I focus on the questions above because it seems like your finances are well in hand, assuming you do retain your employment.

1. My green card is already in process. It will come but it will take it's own sweet time. There's nothing I can do about it.
2. MBA for more fulfilling work.

I guess part of the reason I thought about an MBA is also kind of tied to my green card. My employer told me on my face that since I have a green card dependency, I should not be expecting big raises or promotions as long as I am here. I don't know if they can do that legally as I have no documentation. So it causing me immense stress in my personal life and I want to keep myself engaged and at the same time improve my career prospects in whichever way I can. Yes, I could change employers but I have to start my green card processing again and it  sill set me back another year and no guarantees that my new employer wouldn't treat me the same.

You might sense that my posts are chaotic, which they are. But there's a lot of things going on due my employer and my green card situation. I apologize if this is too much of personal information to share.

My friend, that sounds like exactly the key information to share!

I have a dear friend (ex fiancee) who recently obtained full fledged US citizenship after a grueling 10 year process with many ups and downs, including a period of no green card followed by a green card. I deeply wish for your success in this matter.

I don't know the H1B specifics, so of course I assume you have shared these details with your lawyer to get their opinion. I know that can be expensive, but I don't like any situation where someone seeks unfair advantage.

Knowing several immigrants in varied visa situations, I am well aware that some employers do seek advantage. However, in some of those cases, the immigrant had power in the situation but didn't realize it. That is why I urge you to get lawyer advice about what leverage the employer has!

If you already have and your lawyer said switching employers would delay you, I'd consider staying where you are except for one thing. When my own employer didn't promote me and gave a reason, the reason they gave wasn't the real reason. It was just the reason that they could safely say. Later, I realized some of the various subtle problems I caused that were holding me back...later, meaning after those same issues got me instructed to resign, complete with a small buyout package to ensure no legal problems for the employer.

Due to the above paragraph, and the posts upthread saying that lack of an MBA shouldn't be a barrier, I suggest not getting the MBA on this employer's behalf. Based on how long it would set back your FIRE, I think I'd just keep the money in the bank, but do a lot of networking and personal self-development to prepare other options in case I did need to switch employers later.

My friend had no idea when her citizenship would come through until the last couple of months. I hope that your green card comes through soon.

NorCal

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2019, 08:11:30 PM »
I earned my MBA about a decade ago.  I've seen two most successful paths with an MBA:

1. Go to the cheapest school you can find (frequently online) and get it part time while you continue to work.  This will put the MBA letters on your resume, and get you in the door for the interview.  You will primarily interview based on experience, but the three letters will get you past the HR screening.
2. Go full time to a top 20 school.  Network, make connections and get a job based on the degree.

Honestly,  think long and hard about whether this is the right path for you.  I've had a variety of experience (corporate finance, consulting, systems implementations, sales operations) since I got my MBA.  All of the above have a similar level of soul-suck to what you're doing now.  Maybe a break makes it worth it.  But you're just as likely to find a purple unicorn farting rainbows than you are to find a fulfilling job based on an MBA.

jamesbond007

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2019, 11:43:41 AM »
I apologize in adavance if I'm looking at this from the wrong angle. It sounds like the main problem is that you don't have a path to a green card, so you need to keep working indefinitely on your H1B visa. Am I understanding correctly?

If so:
1. What does your immigration attorney say about how to get a green card? Is it a possibility?
2. Is the MBA designed to ensure you remain employed, or to help find more fulfilling work?

I focus on the questions above because it seems like your finances are well in hand, assuming you do retain your employment.

1. My green card is already in process. It will come but it will take it's own sweet time. There's nothing I can do about it.
2. MBA for more fulfilling work.

I guess part of the reason I thought about an MBA is also kind of tied to my green card. My employer told me on my face that since I have a green card dependency, I should not be expecting big raises or promotions as long as I am here. I don't know if they can do that legally as I have no documentation. So it causing me immense stress in my personal life and I want to keep myself engaged and at the same time improve my career prospects in whichever way I can. Yes, I could change employers but I have to start my green card processing again and it  sill set me back another year and no guarantees that my new employer wouldn't treat me the same.

You might sense that my posts are chaotic, which they are. But there's a lot of things going on due my employer and my green card situation. I apologize if this is too much of personal information to share.

My friend, that sounds like exactly the key information to share!

I have a dear friend (ex fiancee) who recently obtained full fledged US citizenship after a grueling 10 year process with many ups and downs, including a period of no green card followed by a green card. I deeply wish for your success in this matter.

I don't know the H1B specifics, so of course I assume you have shared these details with your lawyer to get their opinion. I know that can be expensive, but I don't like any situation where someone seeks unfair advantage.

Knowing several immigrants in varied visa situations, I am well aware that some employers do seek advantage. However, in some of those cases, the immigrant had power in the situation but didn't realize it. That is why I urge you to get lawyer advice about what leverage the employer has!

If you already have and your lawyer said switching employers would delay you, I'd consider staying where you are except for one thing. When my own employer didn't promote me and gave a reason, the reason they gave wasn't the real reason. It was just the reason that they could safely say. Later, I realized some of the various subtle problems I caused that were holding me back...later, meaning after those same issues got me instructed to resign, complete with a small buyout package to ensure no legal problems for the employer.

Due to the above paragraph, and the posts upthread saying that lack of an MBA shouldn't be a barrier, I suggest not getting the MBA on this employer's behalf. Based on how long it would set back your FIRE, I think I'd just keep the money in the bank, but do a lot of networking and personal self-development to prepare other options in case I did need to switch employers later.

My friend had no idea when her citizenship would come through until the last couple of months. I hope that your green card comes through soon.

Thank you.

jamesbond007

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Re: Planning to get an MBA. Is it worth it?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2019, 11:44:04 AM »
I earned my MBA about a decade ago.  I've seen two most successful paths with an MBA:

1. Go to the cheapest school you can find (frequently online) and get it part time while you continue to work.  This will put the MBA letters on your resume, and get you in the door for the interview.  You will primarily interview based on experience, but the three letters will get you past the HR screening.
2. Go full time to a top 20 school.  Network, make connections and get a job based on the degree.

Honestly,  think long and hard about whether this is the right path for you.  I've had a variety of experience (corporate finance, consulting, systems implementations, sales operations) since I got my MBA.  All of the above have a similar level of soul-suck to what you're doing now.  Maybe a break makes it worth it.  But you're just as likely to find a purple unicorn farting rainbows than you are to find a fulfilling job based on an MBA.

Thank you.