Permission to go part time?

[cincystache]

I've been wanting to go part time for years but always talk myself out of it or convince myself to save "just a little more". I recently ran the numbers and feel a bit better about it but looking for some opinions on the topic. I think we're reaching the point where compounding is doing most of the heavy lifting vs. our contributions so I'd like to take advantage and get more time back by dropping to part time employment (70%). My employer offers this but there are only a few people that I know of that take advantage.

Details:
38, married, two kids (8 & 5), been with my company for 15 years, relatively good performer, no ambition to climb higher than my current level. I don't like the work or the corporate culture but it pays the bills and it could be a lot worse. I do however feel pretty drained when I get home and the weekends go by very fast and each Sunday night I dread the thought of going back to work the next morning.

CURRENT INCOME:
120,000 annual salary
3,000-12,000 annual bonus

CURRENT ASSETS:
557,000 investments + 102,000 home equity = 659,000 total

CURRENT DEBT:
148,500 mortgage (2.8% 27 yrs left)
16,500 (0% car loan 36 months left)

CURRENT EXPENSES:
6,500/month average over the last 3 years. I think we could cut this by a few hundred with more time off work and the car payment (450) will go away in 3 years

Question:
What are your thoughts on dropping hours down to 70%? I would get every Monday off in addition to every other Friday off so 7/10 working days per two week pay period and either a 3 or 4 day weekend every week (!). It would likely cut savings from 5,000 per month to 2,000 per month taking our FI timeline from 10 years to 14 years (assuming 7% return and a goal of 2M net worth). I feel like working those extra 4 years is a good trade for never having to work another Monday and also getting every other Friday off as well for the next 14 years. I would use the time to eat breakfast with my kids, take them to and from school, long weekend camping trips, exercise, read, meal prep, pickleball, relax, visit aging parents more often.

I want to be a bigger part of my kids' childhood and this seems like the best way to enable that. In 10 years (when we hit FI if I stay full time), my oldest will graduate high school and I don't want to miss out on their childhoods by working full time that whole duration.

Any arguments for or against this strategy? Any others who have implemented a similar strategy that can share how it went? Anything I'm not considering?

Also, my wife is planning to re-enter the workforce part time in the next year but she doesn't have a very marketable degree/resume and has been out of the workforce for 8 years but will likely find something part time to help fill in the gaps.

[BECABECA]

It sounds like you’ve put in some good thought, and it seems like this is a trade off that would increase your happiness through all of the remaining stash accumulation phase. If your spouse is also on board, then this could be a great change for this phase of your family. The main potential pitfall I see is if you would lose healthcare coverage or other benefits from your employer that only full time employees might be eligible for. So make sure healthcare, 401k matching, PTO, Bonuses, etc. would stay the same, and if not, you’d need to update your cost-benefit analysis to account for that.

You mention that a few people at your company have taken advantage of this part time offer. Can you pick their brains? Find out what they had wished they’d known before they made the decision, anything they were surprised about, their general feelings about how it’s been for them. That’ll give you an idea of your employer-specific things that we on this forum wouldn’t know to mention.

Another thing to think of is if it’s possible to do this temporarily for a year and then decide if you want to keep to part time or if you’d want to bump back up to full time later down the road. If your company is flexible on that in the future, then that makes trying this now basically risk-free, and gives you a chance to see exactly what effect it’ll have on your monthly savings, what your spouse’s part time gig pans out to be, and how the market performs.

Having more time off could also be great for feeling more energized to tackle things at home that might have the compounding benefit of reducing your monthly expenses, which would reduce your stash needed and if it reduced enough then downshifting might not even extend your work years timeline at all. Maybe set an intention to spend the first few off-fridays focusing on optimizing recurring expenses in the budget (often lots of money to be saved on subscriptions, phone plans, insurances).

[Laura33]

Do it.  FIRE is not some arbitrary finish line, where you "win" if you get there as fast as humanly possible.  It is a tool to help you live your best life. 

Part of your best life involves spending more time with your kids.  That is, by definition, time-limited -- they're not going to be "kids" forever. 

Your current plan has you dedicating all your time to earning money while your kids are young, and then having all your free time when they're almost-grown.  That plan fails to meet one of your priorities.  Ergo, it is entirely logical to evaluate other plans that still keep you on track for FIRE within a reasonable time, while doing a better job of having more time with your kids now.

One way to approach this is to set yourself a challenge to use some of that extra time to reduce your existing budget to offset some of the pay cut -- like, for example, maybe on that Monday-or-every-other-Friday off, once you drop the kids off, you can do the grocery shopping and prep meals for the rest of the week.  Really, if you can shift a bunch of that "taking care of chores" to Monday/Friday, you can free up the weekends for more family fun time.

But most of all, make sure you use that time intentionally and meaningfully -- do things that actively improve your life, like time with your spouse, exercise, time with your parents, etc.  I know you mention these things, and it's great you're thinking of this.  But often what happens is that you do something for a few weeks or months, and then it just gets subsumed into your normal daily life.  Make a plan for that time so it doesn't just sort of disappear.

[roomtempmayo]

Everything @Laura33 said (as usual).

Money can achieve many ends, but it can't buy second childhoods.

Your time means more than money right now.

[Runrooster]

Other than making sure you keep your benefits, I’d make sure your work will be cut. Do you work more than 40 hours right now? What’s to prevent you from having to put in 10 hour days later?  A lot of my deadlines are Friday, and work may not be ready to complete earlier. Would 6 hour days be better plus giving time for kids?

[Sanitary Stache]

I am doing this on a much tighter budget and with much less savings. My goal isn’t FIRE. My goal is more time with my kids while they are here.

I fully left my job since they weren’t open to a part time arraignment. I might be able to negotiate a way back since I like the work in small amounts, but also likely that I’ll figure out some other part time work that fits. I am giving my self a year run way to figure out the part time situation. It has been 6 weeks so far. I am about to play a board game with the kids while I finish making dinner.

[cincystache]

Thank you to all of the replies thus far. It is nice to hear from like-minded folks on the topic. I have my annual review soon and will bring this up and see what they say.   

I certainly want to take advantage of this time and not squander it watching TV or browsing the internet so I appreciate the reminder to be intentional with my precious time. In a way I'm paying a lot of money for this time in opportunity cost so I'm hopeful I will use that knowledge to take full advantage. I also like the suggestions about using that time to knock out some chores to allow for more fun on the weekends and try to save some money in the process.

A few answers to questions that came up...

-Yes, it is reversible and I think it needs to be re-approved every 6 months to a year to make sure both parties are still happy with the arrangement.
- I wouldn't lose health insurance but would have to pay slightly more for it, perhaps $150-250 per month.
-Vacation is prorated so 70% of whatever my allotment would be if I were fully employed.
-The question from @Runrooster is spot on about whether my workload will be cut or not. That is definitely something I'll need to evaluate and make sure my manager is fully supportive and understanding of this element, great point. I do a pretty good job of not taking work home (no company phone, no laptop at home) so I won't be contacted on days off but I could still have issues meeting "deadlines" depending on how understanding my co-workers and managers are.

[engineerjourney]

If you haven't read this thread yet definitely do, I just posted my own move to part time in there: 
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/post-fire/calling-all-downshifters!/

I absolutely love being part time!

[iluvzbeach]

Going part-time in the financial position you are in is definitely a worthwhile pursuit.  Great feedback already above, the only thing I would add (if not included in the responses) is to make sure your days off are truly days off.  If you end up having to keep an eye on email or be available for phone calls & meetings, then you're just taking a cut in pay without the mental break that allows you to pursue activities with your family and enjoy the reduced schedule.

[Britan]

I started part time remote after my first was born and the pandemic was under control. Never going back to full time. I personally prefer working 6 hour days 5 days a week - vs having one day a week off. This way I can pick up the kids from school at their early hour and do activities with them every day, and people at work don’t have to remember which day is my day off. Also there always seems to be a case where something “important” is due on a Friday or whatever, and by working 6 hours a day, It’s not like these occasional things throw off my schedule, if that makes any sense. It also feels like coworkers are more respectful of part time status when it’s “the last two hours of the day” vs “please don’t schedule any meetings with me for the entire day Friday”.

I also second the importance of having PTO and sick leave. My first part time didn’t come with either and it was hellishly stressful every time the toddlers got sick, which was often. I now have pro-rated PTO and it makes a huge difference being able to freely take time off, take care of occasional sick kids, be sick myself, etc. That one was a big deal.

[ChpBstrd]

My household did something like this at a similar inflection point on the road to FIRE, but involuntarily. The spouse had to leave their toxic $80k job in 2020 because it was psychologically destroying them, leaving us with only my 65k gross salary to support our $55-60k spend rate.

Our savings rate went to zero, and for a while went negative when home improvements were necessary. Attempts to cut back on restaurant meals, subscriptions, travel, and discretionary spending helped, but were overwhelmed by big expenses like a surgery, our bathroom needing a to-the-studs remod after a water heater leak, our HVAC dying, and more. So for the past 4 years we've been treading water, whereas 4 years ago I thought we were 3y from FIRE.

Like yourself, the spouse wanted to spend more time with our young kid. That didn't fully happen, as they both eventually settled into a routine of "watching TV and browsing the internet" which caused some friction with the only breadwinner (me) who was the one most wanting to FIRE in the first place.

Thus I cringe a little bit when I see you considering giving up a $5k/mo or $60k/year savings rate. From the other side of the change, I kinda want that sort of progress back!

The spouse found some PT (under)employment in their field, but we are today no closer to FIRE than we were at points in 2021. I have concerns that inflation has increased our FIRE number at a faster pace than we can save. Think long and hard about whether you want to be in my discouraging situation. Not saying life sucks or anything, it's just that when progress grinds to a halt, you will notice it more than before. I find myself selling household objects and found objects on FB marketplace to maintain a sense of financial progress.

May I suggest you do something to significantly reduce your $6,500/mo or $78k/year spend rate before you give yourself permission to go PT? What would it take to hit $60K, and does that plan allow for any contingencies? Do not assume you'll find a way once your income is slashed. You have to prove it first.

Otherwise, my advice is to look into how many PTO hours you're sitting on. Time off can cure burnout, so maybe there are options less extreme than a change in employment status that will also make your benefits more expensive. Ask your boss if scheduled unpaid time off is an option if you are out of PTO. You might find it's no biggie to obtain flexibility when it matters while maintaining the earning power of your career.

[FireLane]

I went part-time at my job the last few years before I retired. Notwithstanding @ChpBstrd's valuable notes of caution, I recommend it for everyone who's able to do it. It's just a more civilized way to work.

When every week is a three-day weekend, your horizons really open up. It's effectively giving yourself 52 more vacation days per year. You can get chores and errands done on weekdays, when there's less traffic and stores are less crowded, so you have the freedom to devote your weekends to actual leisure.

Also, when you're working part-time, you get the most bang for your buck out of PTO. If you get Mondays and alternate Fridays off, taking just one more PTO day on top of that gives you a full five days to travel or do whatever else you want.

Plus, because of how marginal tax rates work, the dollars you're giving up are your most highly taxed ones - so it affects your take-home pay, and your time remaining to FI, less than you might think.

As others have said, the biggest potential issue is how your boss will handle this. If they respect your time, fantastic. If they just expect you to do the same amount of work as before, but in less time and for less money, then this isn't as good a deal for you. You're the only person who can predict which is more likely.

One more thing to consider: Like you, my job had a policy allowing part-time work, but very few people took advantage of it. I assume that they were either afraid to ask for fear of seeming less committed to the company, or were spending 100% of what they earned and couldn't imagine voluntarily reducing their salary. If you have a frugal lifestyle and the security of FU money, neither of those considerations apply to you. You can be the trailblazer who shows that it's possible, and inspires others to do likewise.

[cincystache]

UPDATE:
I talked with my boss and they are supportive of going to four days per week but 9 hours per day to start. This will be a 10% reduction which I think is a good compromise and assuming it goes well, could lead to larger reductions in the future. I'm looking forward to having 3 days off every weekend!

[BECABECA]

Congrats on the 3 day weekends! For most of my career I got to work a flex 9/80 schedule so I worked 9 hours every day and got every other Friday off. I never found working 9 hour days as opposed to 8 hour days much different, but I sure noticed the joy of having every other Friday completely off. I absolutely would have given up 4 hours of pay per week to make it every Friday off. Good job asking for what you want and making your job fit your life better!

[TheFrenchCat]

My husband also works 9/80 and has every other Friday off and it's awesome.  Appointments are easier, it feels like more of a break, and during the school year we often do lunch dates while our daughter is at school.  I normally still get her to school/on the bus on those days, but it's great that he's home when she gets back.  His also 6am-3:30pm, so he gets back at 4pm on normal days.  It means going to bed early, but if you can manage that, it's allowed him to be more involved as well. 

[FLBiker]

UPDATE:
I talked with my boss and they are supportive of going to four days per week but 9 hours per day to start. This will be a 10% reduction which I think is a good compromise and assuming it goes well, could lead to larger reductions in the future. I'm looking forward to having 3 days off every weekend!

This seems like a great way to ease into it, congrats!  I keep thinking I'll go PT, but I WFH and my job is usually pretty low-stress, so I'm already effectively working PT and I can't justify taking the paycut by making it official.  One of these days, though...