Author Topic: Paleo Diet  (Read 17537 times)

unitsinc

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Houston/Denver
Paleo Diet
« on: May 07, 2012, 10:23:25 AM »
Well, I've been on something resembling the paleo diet for quite a while now and I've recently began attempting to cut costs.

For those that don't know, paleo is pretty much protein+veggies+fruits. I tend to shy away from fruits as they are a bit too sugary for my purposes, but I'd say I aim for most of my meals to be about 75% meat and 25% vegetable. Sometimes less vegetables as I just dislike cooking with them.

As you can imagine this is rather expensive. I'm essentially cutting out the cheapest(and typically worst) source of calories.

As someone who is relatively new to cost cutting measures, I assume someone here may have some ideas to stick to my diet as well as not breaking the bank, and I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.


Note: I imagine a number of people will say to swap diets, but I absolutely love this diet. I've lost weight, gained muscle, and have noticeably more energy. Plus I can eat bacon any time I want. ;)

grantmeaname

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4753
  • Age: 27
  • Location: NYC
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 10:35:46 AM »
I'm essentially cutting out the cheapest(and typically worst) source of calories.
The human digestive system is pretty versatile. I'm wary of calling any source of calories the worst, especially something that's as major a group as cereals.

As someone who is relatively new to cost cutting measures, I assume someone here may have some ideas to stick to my diet as well as not breaking the bank, and I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.
Get a Costco membership and then buy USDA primal cuts (like a whole shank or tenderloin or whatever, or sub-primals like just the filet mignon) and butcher them into roasts, steaks, and meat to grind for sausages. The prices on the primals at Costco are really impressive!

Edit: Alton Brown did a couple of episodes on butchering sub-primals, but I'm not seeing them anywhere on the internet. Here's a site that's based on one of his episodes.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 10:38:05 AM by grantmeaname »

unitsinc

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Houston/Denver
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 10:57:07 AM »
I'm essentially cutting out the cheapest(and typically worst) source of calories.
The human digestive system is pretty versatile. I'm wary of calling any source of calories the worst, especially something that's as major a group as cereals.

As someone who is relatively new to cost cutting measures, I assume someone here may have some ideas to stick to my diet as well as not breaking the bank, and I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.
Get a Costco membership and then buy USDA primal cuts (like a whole shank or tenderloin or whatever, or sub-primals like just the filet mignon) and butcher them into roasts, steaks, and meat to grind for sausages. The prices on the primals at Costco are really impressive!

Edit: Alton Brown did a couple of episodes on butchering sub-primals, but I'm not seeing them anywhere on the internet. Here's a site that's based on one of his episodes.


That sounds like a pretty good idea. That's definitely above my current culinary skills, but sounds like it might be a bit of fun to learn how to do some of my own butchering.

I also love Alton Brown. I'll see if I can dig around and find those episodes.

Thanks a lot.

As for carbs being bad, I've read a good bit about before hopping on the band wagon. Robb Wolf has some pretty good books out there if you're at all interested.

frugalman

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 176
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2012, 12:10:19 PM »
I've done Atkins, Neanderthin, Ornish.  What finally worked was adopting a 5 day a week 45 mins/day of hard cardio.  I've lost 70 pounds over the past two years, and feel terrific.  I'm eating a pretty balanced diet now, some carbs (brown rice and bread) lots of fruits, some vegetables, avoiding red meat (but have some now and then), some chicken and some fish.

Mrs MM

  • Administrator
  • Bristles
  • *****
  • Posts: 367
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2012, 12:44:27 PM »
I'm on a pseudo-paleo diet.  I would say that you should increase your veggies a lot and decrease your meat.  75% meat seems like a lot to me...  we eat meat, but usually it's the smallest thing on the plate and we don't eat it every day.  Our meat often goes a long way too with leftovers.

Bacon is expensive too - we don't eat it much as it's not very filing and you can eat a ton in one sitting.  Maybe save it for certain meals or add it to your veggies?  I made a broccoli, bacon, and almond dish once that was delish.

If you don't like cooked veggies very much (I'm not a huge fan either), eat raw veggies.  They are easy to cut up and delicious.  Try sweet potato fries.  Veggies on the grill are also quite yummy.  Also, there's a lot of great Indian meals that are really filing, but not super intense on meat.

Bakari

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1797
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Oakland, CA
  • Veggie Powered Handyman
    • The Flamboyant Introvert
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2012, 12:55:18 PM »
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/throw-down-the-gauntlet/the-least-expensive-meat-comes-from-beans/

In the past year I increased my protein intake significantly (first time in my life I paid any attention to it), and I think that may have been a factor in my setting new personal bests in weightlifting - 180 on the benchpress and 125 on clean-to-overhead-press (i.e. barbell from the ground to straight overhead) - which may not be much by serious athlete standards, but I only weigh about 130lbs myself, so I'm pretty happy with it.

I have been vegetarian my entire life.
My increase in protein came from whey powder and TVP.

The word "protein" is NOT interchangeable with "meat".  The digestive system breaks all protein down into amino acids, and then rebuilds its own proteins from scratch, which means it is literally impossible for your body to even tell the difference between whether a particular protein came from a plant or animal source.

kdms

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 178
  • Location: Ottawa, Canada
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2012, 01:03:37 PM »
If you haven't already found this website, there may be some threads in here on how to eat paleo without breaking the bank.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/

Emmers

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2012, 01:12:57 PM »
Quote
For those that don't know, paleo is pretty much protein+veggies+fruits...I'd say I aim for most of my meals to be about 75% meat and 25% vegetable. Sometimes less vegetables as I just dislike cooking with them.

One suggestion: Stop translating "protein" into "meat" in your mind. There are like eighty billion sources of protein out there, and meat is pretty expensive.  How about hummus?  12g/serving isn't too shabby. 

A serving of hummus has half the protein of a serving of ground beef:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4403/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/6197/2

Supplement with another type of protein later on, to get the "complete protein" effect, and voila! 

Or are legumes also out?

unitsinc

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Houston/Denver
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2012, 01:43:53 PM »
Legumes are also out on the diet. They have similar issues as grains in that they are hard to absorb, and breakdown, as well as causing odd hormonal issues. A quick google search gives a number of reasons why they're not a great source of nutrients.

While dairy is also not strictly a part of the paleo diet, I do use powder(whey+casein+albumin) as a meal alternative and is pretty cheap overall.

I'll dig around marksdailyapple for some cheap options as well.

I also just mentioned bacon for fun, not many diets authorize it's use, so it's just humorous to toss it out as an example.
I know it is quite expensive, and not particularly filling, so it's a rare thing.

Guitarist

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 210
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Kansas City
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2012, 02:19:06 PM »
  I made a broccoli, bacon, and almond dish once that was delish.


That sounds great.
Also sounds like you could interchange brussels sprouts for the broccoli and be good as well (assuming your family eats brussels sprouts).

clarkai

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 217
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2012, 03:07:11 PM »
How about eggs? They're cheaper than meat for sure.

Also, since you are obviously buying a lot of meat, how about buying a quarter or half cow at a time? Last time I talked with a farmer is was 4 something a pound, and that was for grass fed organic.

unitsinc

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Houston/Denver
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 03:12:15 PM »
How about eggs? They're cheaper than meat for sure.

Also, since you are obviously buying a lot of meat, how about buying a quarter or half cow at a time? Last time I talked with a farmer is was 4 something a pound, and that was for grass fed organic.

I definitely do a good amounts of eggs, usually 4-6 in a meal(plus some other kind of protein source, eggs don't have very many calories.)

I've been contemplating buying a separate freezer and doing something along these lines.

I've also got a friend whose family hunts yearly for food and I was thinking of going and giving it a try. I hear elk is rather tasty and it seems like overall would be a pretty cheap source of meat.

adam

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 421
  • Age: 39
  • Location: SC
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2012, 07:58:34 AM »
Cheap (good) sources of meat?  Buy whole things.  For example, last time the grocery store had a sale they had whole chickens for 67 cents a pound.  I got a whole bird for like $3.50 which essentially made 3-4 servings.  Also look at roasts and cheaper cuts that you can prepare ahead of time to really bring out the best in them.  I have an awesome recipe for and eye of round roast that with proper preparation tastes just as good and as tender as a prime rib for a fraction of the cost.

I don't have a membership (yet?) but Sams Club has incredible deals on large cuts of meat.

I second the cow as well.  When we move back to my house with a garage I plan on getting a freezer and going halfsies on a cow with a co-worker.  ~$3/lb carcass weight, processed and packaged.

Now aside from meat, eat more veggies, really.  It doesn't have to be complicated, as Mark from Marksdailyapple.com (which is truly and awesome site, I read it every day), have a Big Ass Salad for lunch and save the meat for dinner.

I am also (mostly) primal/paleo.  I go by the Primal Blueprint, which is Mark's book.

mikednj

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2012, 08:53:22 AM »
I follow a pretty strict paleo diet as does my wife. 

In a typical week we eat the following foods
eggs, (lots of eggs)   $.10/egg we go through about 60 a week.
avocado 4/$5 is the best I can get around here
apples usually .99-1.29/lb
oranges .79 - .99/lb
strawberries (when on sale or frozen) 1.99/lb
mixed veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini, carrots )i get from Bjs for 1.14/lb frozen)
olive oil  ~$10 for 100oz
baby carrots 1.20/lb
almonds not sure on these i think they are about $10 for a 3lb bag at BJs
celery 1.49/lb
cucumbers 3/1.99
brussel sprouts
beef (usually ground, roasts, london broil, anything on sale under 3.99/lb)
lamb (if on sale fro under 3.99/lb)
chicken (we eat chicken less often but I usually buy it for about .99 - 1.99/lb depending on cut)
frozen wild caught fish from 4.99 - 9.99/lb 
sardines (I stocked up on 30 cans when they were .89/can)
some other odds and ends here an there.

We are growing zucchini, tomatos, kale, Brussel sprouts and cucumbers this summer in the garden as well.

since I do weight training and conditioning work I through in bananas and sweet potatoes in after a work out.

I can't have any form of dairy or it causes congestion and my wife gets migraines from gluten containing products.

Our typical food bill (for two people) is about 300-350 a month, sometimes more if we have friends over and my wife insists on making gluten free cookies or deserts.  The majority of our shopping happens at the local Shop Rite supermarker and we get certain items at BJ's wholesale club. SR beats out BJs consistently with sales on meat and veggies.

Robbwolf.com has some good reasources for paleo on a budget as well as.. wait for it... paleoonabudget.com.

Paleo CAN get expensive if you buy all grass fed organic foods, which is ideal but I still see 90% of the gains from following the diet using conventional super market and wholesale club foods.

My trick is I go food shopping on saturday and sunday.  We get the local news paper on saturday which contains the coming week's sales papers.  Saturday morning during breakfast I look at what's currently onsale and compare it with what will be on sale starting Sunday.  We go to the market to get items that won't be on sale anymore on Saturday then again on Sunday when the new sale beings. 

Mrs MM

  • Administrator
  • Bristles
  • *****
  • Posts: 367
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2012, 12:58:14 PM »
  I made a broccoli, bacon, and almond dish once that was delish.


That sounds great.
Also sounds like you could interchange brussels sprouts for the broccoli and be good as well (assuming your family eats brussels sprouts).

Yeah, definitely!  We do beans & rice and eat a lot of eggs as well.

Also, I don't really eat all that much.  I'm small, but I've also never been a big eater.  MMM actually started eating less as well and has been feeling great.  I guess it depends on how much you exercise and how much you currently weigh...  It's not something people often think about, so I thought I'd mention it.  :)

We also only eat meat for dinner, if we have it that day.  There's almost always leftovers for dinner the next night, so our meat seems to go a long way.

Costco also seems to be getting better about carrying organic meat.

RoseRed

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Location: UK
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2012, 04:26:31 PM »
I stopped eating paleo for a while on grounds of frugality, but felt a lot worse, so I'm diving back in. I've been mostly avoiding lot of red meat, and have been eating lots of eggs and cheap frozen fish and tinned sardines. Offal is both super-cheap and super-paleo, so liver is your friend. I don't eat huge amounts of meat or other protein, though. I eat protein at every meal, but not all that much - by far the main part of each meal is veg.

masont

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 50
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2012, 11:34:51 AM »
I've been buying veggies at Costco and making big salads.  A couple heads of romaine lettuce, a cucumber, some broccoli, carrots, walnuts, with some homemade dressing (basically olive oil, jack daniel's mustard, champagne vinegar, garlic, rosemary) on top is a great meal for two for about 3 bucks.  Sometimes we'll throw some meat in there too, but that about doubles the cost generally.

If you want more protein, add more broccoli.  It's got more protein per calorie than steak, and it's a lot better for you.   The upside of eating a lot of veggies is that you have to eat a ton of food, and it's really satisfying. 

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8492
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2012, 03:36:02 PM »
The last time I dug into these fad diets, the general conclusion on the internet was that they each seemed to work great for at least one ethnic group.  Someone was suggesting that certain groups of people have a unique biochemistry that may benefit enormously from something like the paleo diet, while another group of people might really struggle to stay healthy with it. 

There were lots of citations about things like lactose intolerance varying between ethnic groups, and historical diets evolving along with historical populations.  Like coastal native populations from Canada were eating ridiculous amounts of fish and blubber, but didn't really start to get horribly unhealthy until they started eating beef and potatoes.  It all seemed to make sense to me at that time.

Has this idea fallen out of favor with the fad diet community?  This was a year or two ago, and it seemed to bring some peace to the otherwise vitriolic conflicts over which diet was best.   I haven't thought much about it since, though.

masont

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 50
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2012, 09:24:52 PM »
The last time I dug into these fad diets, the general conclusion on the internet was that they each seemed to work great for at least one ethnic group.  Someone was suggesting that certain groups of people have a unique biochemistry that may benefit enormously from something like the paleo diet, while another group of people might really struggle to stay healthy with it. 

There were lots of citations about things like lactose intolerance varying between ethnic groups, and historical diets evolving along with historical populations.  Like coastal native populations from Canada were eating ridiculous amounts of fish and blubber, but didn't really start to get horribly unhealthy until they started eating beef and potatoes.  It all seemed to make sense to me at that time.

Has this idea fallen out of favor with the fad diet community?  This was a year or two ago, and it seemed to bring some peace to the otherwise vitriolic conflicts over which diet was best.   I haven't thought much about it since, though.
The cool thing about the Paleo fad is that it focuses less on which macronutrient is good/bad and more on eating whole, unprocessed foods, which I think is way more important.  I'm not entirely sold that all grains and legumes are horrible and must be shunned, but I'm also not entirely sold that eliminating them does anything bad for your health - only your budget. 

grantmeaname

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4753
  • Age: 27
  • Location: NYC
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2012, 06:44:34 AM »
certain groups of people have a unique biochemistry
This idea holds absolutely no scientific water. There are not distinct races in the biological sense of the word, and there aren't tangible genetic differences shared by ethnic groups, so any nutritional theory that depends on them or uses them to explain a biological phenomenon is pseudoscience... not that most fad diets are based in science anyway.

BenDarDunDat

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 84
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Raleigh NC
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2012, 07:49:50 AM »
75% meat is not going to be healthy in the long run. The abundance of science shows that a high percentage of meat isn't conducive to longevity. However, if someone is overweight and can lose weight on a 75% meat diet, I would say that it is the lesser of two evils and to go for it. Otherwise, no way.  Every study of various cultures shows that a high vegetable low meat diet has a higher longevity that high meat low vegetable diet.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 09:13:54 AM by BenDarDunDat »

sol

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8492
  • Age: 42
  • Location: Pacific Northwest
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2012, 08:52:06 AM »
There are not distinct races in the biological sense of the word, and there aren't tangible genetic differences shared by ethnic groups

That's an interesting assertion.  Rather than dispute it, I will ask more questions.

1.  If the morphological differences between ethnic groups are not genetic, what is their cause?

2.  Do you dispute that vitamin D production is regulated by sunlight exposure, or that sunlight exposure is regulated by melanin content?

3.  How do you explain the disproportionate prevalence of some diseases in some ethnic groups, if not genetic proclivity?  Do you disagree with the published literature on sickle cell anemia, for example?

4.  Which part(s) of the following hypothesis do you disagree with:  "Isolated ancestral human populations evolved to best survive their local environments, including available food supplies."

grantmeaname

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4753
  • Age: 27
  • Location: NYC
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2012, 09:53:30 AM »
1.  If the morphological differences between ethnic groups are not genetic, what is their cause?
At the level of simple traits, there are morphological differences between ethnic groups. For example, Tay-Sachs disease is a simple genetic disease linked to a single locus on a single chromosome. All Ashkenazi Jews with the Tay-Sachs allelle share a single mutation from a common ancestor. Every Ashkenazi with Tay-Sachs has the exact same base-pair anomaly at the same place on the same chromosome. This can also be seen for other genetically simple (single base pairs, for example) genetic conditions. These changes can happen somewhat quickly on an evolutionary time scale, given genetic isolation.

As far as generalizing these to complex traits and to races, I disagree with the statement. The characteristics we choose to divide people into races -- and this is a bit more general than ethnic groups -- are often arbitrary and totally unrelated. Hair texture, eye color, and skin color are all complex traits with genetic, cultural, and environmental components, and the genetic components are not inherited together-- to be so, they would have to be within tiny distances on the same arm of the same chromosome. Then we take these biologically meaningless components and treat them as a biological package, and then study things like "African-American women are more likely to have hypertension based on their genetics", as if hair texture and skin color are somehow not only genetically linked to each other, but also magically to hypertension proclivity. This is genetic nonsense. Does that make sense?

2.  Do you dispute that vitamin D production is regulated by sunlight exposure, or that sunlight exposure is regulated by melanin content?
Melanin content is regulated by sunlight exposure, but I'm sure you understand that and just switched your words. Now let's look at what that means: changes in melanin production happen largely as individual adaptations and epigenetic changes, things that can happen within one generation or over a handful of generations. And, they're changes that wouldn't be affected by interbreeding within proximate populations, because proximate populations are in a similar environment when it comes to UV exposure and Vitamin D needs. Finally, melanin production is a very complex trait, controlled by dozens of genes. Their effects are more or less additive, so if you get a "more melanin" mutation at almost any one of the the dozens of loci, you'll make slightly more melanin. That means there are tons of opportunities for mutation to occur, so even genetic changes can happen relatively quickly--certainly in much less time than the full 100,000 years that people have chosen to live outside of Africa.

3.  How do you explain the disproportionate prevalence of some diseases in some ethnic groups, if not genetic proclivity?  Do you disagree with the published literature on sickle cell anemia, for example?
Sickle cell anemia is extraordinarily prevalent in Italians and Greeks, and the allele is also found in big pockets of Saudi Arabia and India. It's also nearly absent in non-malarial regions of Africa, or regions of Africa that were non-malarial until recently. In other words, it follows environmental (malaria) and not racial (Sub-Saharan African) geographical patterns. Again, this is a single allele and point mutation, so it's as simple as genetic disease gets.

4.  Which part(s) of the following hypothesis do you disagree with:  "Isolated ancestral human populations evolved to best survive their local environments, including available food supplies."
I disagree with the word "isolated". Humans have been continuously interbreeding. The thousand-foot aerial view is that there was a single out-of-Africa migration at the dawn of (biologically modern) Homo sapiens sapiens, about 100,000 years ago. All people not of African ancestry are descendants of the same handful of people outmigrating at the same time. With the exception of tiny groups migrating and then being isolated (Australia, the Americas, other little islands), and since then everyone has been a continuous breeding population.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 10:00:25 AM by grantmeaname »

Mrs MM

  • Administrator
  • Bristles
  • *****
  • Posts: 367
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2012, 09:57:28 AM »
The last time I dug into these fad diets, the general conclusion on the internet was that they each seemed to work great for at least one ethnic group.  Someone was suggesting that certain groups of people have a unique biochemistry that may benefit enormously from something like the paleo diet, while another group of people might really struggle to stay healthy with it. 

There were lots of citations about things like lactose intolerance varying between ethnic groups, and historical diets evolving along with historical populations.  Like coastal native populations from Canada were eating ridiculous amounts of fish and blubber, but didn't really start to get horribly unhealthy until they started eating beef and potatoes.  It all seemed to make sense to me at that time.

Has this idea fallen out of favor with the fad diet community?  This was a year or two ago, and it seemed to bring some peace to the otherwise vitriolic conflicts over which diet was best.   I haven't thought much about it since, though.

Yes.  I believe this is absolutely true.  Different people benefit from different types of diets, but there are certainly many foods that should be avoided by all humans.

In my case, my brother has celiac, my nephew has autism and benefits from a gluten-free casein-free diet, and my father has wheat and dairy sensitivity.  So, as we all recently learned, the majority of us should stay away from wheat, which is how I came upon the paleo diet (I have never followed a diet in my life). 

I have my own spin on it though and am slowly learning which foods I'm sensitive to and which ones make me feel great.  But, removing gluten was the biggest trigger, as prior to that, I had no clue what made me feel good and what didn't.  Once I removed wheat, I was able to figure things out more easily.  I've also learned that sensitivity to gluten can affect many many people and that even issues in kids like ADHD can be attributed to a gluten sensitivity.

I think it's silly to follow a diet blindly, but to eliminate a large number of foods and then add foods in a little at a time, while recording how you feel and how various foods affect you, would benefit the vast majority of the population.

crunchy_mama

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2012, 10:34:00 AM »
We try to eat a paleo/primal diet here, although as of late my budget has taken major hits, making this harder and harder to attain.  We do keep gluten free, mostly dairy free (I sometimes make homemade yogurt, buy hard cheeses or butter but that hasn't been in the budget lately- we don't tolerate all dairy), we are soy free as well.  We are a family of 5, with another on the way.   My current average spending for the year is at $430 per month however, actual spending will be less as I just bought all our beef and chicken for this year in the last 2 months, skewing the average.  For the year I project our average will be $300-$350 per month. 

Ways we save money:
Meat- I buy straight from the farm and large amounts at a time-

Beef- bought 1/2 grassfed/finished for $3.50 lb/ $2.91 lb including all the soup bones and meat.  Dh and I helped butcher to save costs- we have friends who have a farm and a cool set-up for butchering.  That was $350 total and should last one year.

Pork- I buy 1/2 at a time, should need 1 whole for the year.  Price $1.65 lb.  Locally raised but not grassfed.

Chicken- Grassfed from a local farmer I generally buy 52, for 1 per week, but this year I only bought 32, dh and I both helped butcher to reduce costs. $2.39 lb. I only use whole chickens, I cut them myself before or after cooking. 

Rabbits- We are raising rabbits to supplement chicken.  I don't have an exact cost on this as there are too many variables and we've only been at it a year. 

Deer- Dh hunts, last year he got 1 deer, about 70 lbs after processing, which we processed ourselves- cost was about $20/29c lb for tags(he already has equipment and clothes, so only costs last year was tags and a bullet).

We're hopeful that he can kill 2 deer this year but I'm due in the midst of season, so we will see how it goes.  I'd like to raise hogs as well but dh isn't convinced.  We don't have enough land for beef though, goats are possible but we need to work on fencing.

It takes a lot of networking to find good connections.  I re-evaluate as needed if cost goes up or I cannot get what I want when I need it.

I always ask for my fat when getting a hog or beef and then render my own tallow and lard and use that for a lot of my fat while cooking. 

Bulk Buying:
I buy a lot in bulk from Azure Standard.  I usually buy the largest I can as that is usually the cheapest per ounce or lb. 

Coconut oil -5 gal-(I buy this from either Nutiva, Tropical Traditions, Wilderness Family Naturals or Mt. Rose Herbs- whoever has the cheapest price and shipping at the time)

Honey - 5 gallon sizes (although we just started raising  this year and I hope that we will be able to harvest next year).  Honey is generally my only sweetner, although I do buy some maple syrup, which is currently cheapest from Amazon.  I did have a local source for a good price, but they stopped tapping.  I'm hoping to do our own next year, but we will see.  As of now I limit the maple syrup use as it is twice as expensive as honey. $60 gallon versus $27

Spices/Herbs- I buy from Azure Standard or Mt. Rose Herbs usually.  I have hopes of growing my own but it hasn't materialized!

Nuts/Seeds/Dried Fruits- Generally from Azure, although sometimes I find them cheaper elsewhere.  I seen in Walgreens a few weeks back that figs were $4 lb and that is way cheaper than anywhere else.  I haven't bought any in a while as it wasn't in the budget but we love them and they are a nice treat.  Dates are cheapest from Aldi.

Coconut and Almond Flour- Almond Flour is by far the cheapest at Trader Joes but I don't have one locally I try to stock up if I go to one but at 2 hrs away it doesn't happen alot.  Coconut flour is cheapest at Tropical Traditions when on sale but if I miss a sale I buy from Azure.  I don't make a ton of baked goods though, usually a few times a week and have been searching out recipes that combine the two, which is cheaper per item to make.

Veggies:
I buy from Azure when I get good deals, like this fall and winter organic apples were 50c lb for juice grade (blemished) by the case.  Otherwise these days I buy conventional from Aldi's, they have the cheapest produce around by far.  Otherwise we eat what is in season the best we can.   I buy bulk organic frozen green beans and peas from Azure, as they have them cheaper than what I can find around here locally.

I buy whole carrots instead of baby as they are half the cost.  Fruit for the kids is whatever cheapest, generally bananas, apples, and oranges.  Other fruit are rare treats. I buy "natural" blueberries by 10 lb bags from Azure.  I have done U-pick before but the price wasn't any better.  I do have blackberry bushes and hope to harvest some from my own and wild but I don't know how much I'll get.

I get some free fruit from my mom and in-laws trees as well, we have an orchard but it isn't producing quite yet.  I canned a lot of pears from Mom's trees last year and they make awesome dried fruit and roll-ups. 

I have a small garden this year, but don't know how much I'll harvest I got it in late due to first trimester tiredness.  I'm hoping to be able to can some tomatoes and put up some sweet potatoes and white potatoes.

Canned goods:
I buy canned tomato products, olives, mushrooms, and pumpkin from Aldi's.

Fats:
I mostly use the tallow/lard or coconut oil.  I use EVOO from Sam's Club ( a friend buys it for me on her acct) for dressings.  Plain olive oil I use solely for homemade mayo.

I'm hoping to continue raising more of our own but a lot of times it takes a bit of start up investment, so we do a few things at a time.  The biggest thing I'm hoping for next year is expanding the garden and also perhaps start raising hogs or goats.

FWIW IMHO different people can thrive on different diets.  Regardless of the evidence either way I feel best eating primally, good amounts of meat, high fat and lots of low glycemic veggies.  So, I try to keep to that the best I can. 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 11:26:45 AM by crunchy_mama »

rjack

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Philadelphia PA
  • I'm retired!
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2012, 10:57:33 AM »
We try to eat a paleo/primal diet here, although as of late my budget has taken major hits, making this harder and harder to attain.  We do keep gluten free, mostly dairy free (I sometimes make homemade yogurt, buy hard cheeses or butter but that hasn't been in the budget lately- we don't tolerate all dairy), we are soy free as well.  We are a family of 5, with another on the way.   My current average spending for the year is at $430 however, actual spending will be less as I just bought all our beef and chicken for this year in the last 2 months, skewing the average.  For the year I project our average will be $300-$350. 

Thanks for the excellent info about Azure Standard!

We are a hard-core paleo family, but we spend way more than you.

Do you actually just spend $430 per year? Or is it per month? Does that include all the bulk purchases?

crunchy_mama

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 35
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2012, 11:25:02 AM »
That was per month, sorry if that wasn't clearer.  That has been my average for the first 6 months of this year.  As I said though that I've bought all my beef and chicken for the year and 1/2 hog in the past Two months($900 total for those).  I have some more stocking up do do on pantry goods though in the second half of the year.  We are not at 100% paleo/primal I let the kids GF porridge and we eat white rice at times as well.  Unfortunately more than I want these days.  I spread out bulk purchases the best I can.  Also, it takes a while to get to that level because it is more expensive to start, at first I just started buying in bulk the things that would save me the most money and progressively buying bigger sizes as I could.  These days I give myself $12-$20 a week for produce and such, whatever I can squeeze out of the budget otherwise goes to buying bulk items, items that are in the lowest supply are of course highest on the list and on and on until the money is gone.  Money has been so tight I haven't gotten to the point where I've had an excess to worry about overspending.  Hopefully when things are looking up I'd like to allocate $400 a month and be able to have a few splurges, of course I also hope that we can provide more of our own which should offset as well.

AlexK

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Sparks, NV
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2012, 11:43:12 AM »
Get a fishing license. My dinner last night was fresh trout caught a mile from my house and it was tasty.

andrew

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2012, 02:56:53 PM »
For those that don't know, paleo is pretty much protein+veggies+fruits. I tend to shy away from fruits as they are a bit too sugary for my purposes, but I'd say I aim for most of my meals to be about 75% meat and 25% vegetable. Sometimes less vegetables as I just dislike cooking with them.

I would highly recommend against consuming this much protein regardless of source (meat or vegetarian):

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2004nl/040100puproteinoverload.htm

Your body doesn't store excess protein so if you consume more than about 15% of your calories from protein your body will just excrete the excess. So on this fact alone you're throwing away money by loading up on protein. There are also many diseases associated with excess protein intake -- "Bone loss, osteoporisis, kidney damage, kidney stones, immune dysfunction, arthritis, cancer promotion, low-energy, and overall poor health..."

grantmeaname

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4753
  • Age: 27
  • Location: NYC
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2012, 03:13:16 PM »
By my reading, you don't excrete the excess, you use it. When protein is oxidized into amino acids and those are further broken apart into ammonia and hydrocarbons, and then the ammonia is metabolized into urea, your body is getting energy from the processes. The fact that urea is leaving your body doesn't mean that the protein was 'wasted', it means that it was used for calories and not construction.

Bone loss, kidney stones and osteporosis are only related to protein overconsumption in the case of calcium deficiency. Calcium is pulled from the bones to maintain blood pH, and some protein metabolites are acidic. If you're not consuming enough calcium, heavy protein consumption can certainly exacerbate any calcium problems you have, but it's hard for me to imagine it actually causing them in an otherwise balanced diet.

andrew

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2012, 03:56:42 PM »
By my reading, you don't excrete the excess, you use it. When protein is oxidized into amino acids and those are further broken apart into ammonia and hydrocarbons, and then the ammonia is metabolized into urea, your body is getting energy from the processes. The fact that urea is leaving your body doesn't mean that the protein was 'wasted', it means that it was used for calories and not construction.

To quote from the article I linked to: "Once the body’s needs are met, then the excess must be removed.  The liver converts the excess protein into urea and other nitrogen-containing breakdown products, which are finally eliminated through the kidneys as part of the urine."

Where in this protein-to-urea process is your body making use of the excess protein you consumed? The simple fact that your body is doing something with the excess protein in order to eliminate it does not equate to your body making use of the excess protein. While I've been known to be full of piss and vinegar from time to time, I don't think my body is fueled by urea.

Seems to me that if you eat 2000 calories a day, 75% of which are from protein, and your body can only make use of 15%, then 75-15=60% of your 2000 calories are wasted. You're essentially only eating 2000*.60=1200 calories a day. Hence the rapid weight loss on high protein diets. Just speculating here though so I could be wrong, you may know more about how rapid weight loss on high protein diets (e.g. atkins) actually works.

unitsinc

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 188
  • Age: 34
  • Location: Houston/Denver
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2012, 04:13:47 PM »
I'll try and dig through some links from stuff I read before starting the diet and post them up tomorro.

But essentially, eating low carbs will put your body into a state of ketosis. In this state, your body more easily wants to begin using your fat stores as fuel instead of the easy carbs. Carbs are the easiest thing for your body to digest(simple structures usually, that's why you tend to get hungry sooner.)

That is the very short version of it.

Also, I am very suspect of the 15% usage rate on protein. there have been cultures around the world that ave subsisted off of nothing but animal protein. One notable example are what we think of today as Eskimos. They have a near 100% protein and fat diet and actually tend to be extremely healthy.

Of course this could be due to other factors, but if they only used 15% of the protein they ate, they'd have to eat a huge amount of food to make up for it.

andrew

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2012, 05:25:33 PM »
It has occurred to me that my math is flawed since you said 75% of your diet came from meat (not protein) and meat is probably about 50% protein, though this will vary by the leanness.  So if the 75% of your calories from meat are 50% protein, and the 25% of your calories from vegetables are ~20-25% protein, then you're consuming about 43% of your calories as protein. Still might be excessive considering the US government and the World Health Organization both recommend somewhere between 5% and 11%.  I don't think most bodybuilders even consume 43% of their calories from protein.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 05:32:32 PM by andrew »

grantmeaname

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4753
  • Age: 27
  • Location: NYC
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2012, 06:46:00 AM »
Where in this protein-to-urea process is your body making use of the excess protein you consumed? ... I don't think my body is fueled by urea.

When protein is oxidized into amino acids and those are further broken apart into ammonia and hydrocarbons, and then the ammonia is metabolized into urea, your body is getting energy from the processes. The fact that urea is leaving your body doesn't mean that the protein was 'wasted', it means that it was used for calories and not construction.
Again, if my reading is correct: the protein to urea process is your body making use of the excess protein you consumed. That's just the pathway by which amino acids are metabolized by the body.

Tashimojo

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2012, 02:45:09 PM »
I have been on a paleo diet for close to a year now and it's great.  It is a bit more expensive than a rice and beans diet, but there's a few things that have not been addressed in this thread.  Going paleo does not mean loading up on meat to make up for discarding grains, legumes and processed sugars from your diet.  Eating 75% meat and 25% veggies is sorta insane.  Yes, the inuits and possibly a few other isolated groups have really high meat intake and stay healthy, but by the same token there are people who go vegan and stay healthy... it's just really hard to do either.

Bump up your veggie intake, and that will take down your food bill considerably.  There's been advice in this thread to buy cheapo meat but that is not paleo.  Cheap ass meat comes from absolutely disgusting factory farms, it's pumped full of antibiotics and the meat itself has a poorer nutritional content because the animals are fed crap that they normally wouldn't eat and the animals are kept indoors in tight quarters their entire lives.  It turns out that getting exercise, fresh air and sunshine isn't just healthy for humans, but for the animals we eat too.  And if you believe in paleo (avoiding grains because they are unhealthy) you need to eat grass fed and pastured meat.  Otherwise you're just eating a byproduct of concentrated grains.

In the end going paleo is not very Mustachian, although I do admit I'm pretty new here and don't have the whole MMM philosophy completely figured out.  However there are ways to make paleo more Mustachian that stays true to paleo principles.  Do some intermittent fasting, ie skip meals now and then.  Even skip multiple meals in a day once you're comfortable fasting every so often.  Eat more veggies.  Grow your own veggies in a garden.  You can even go as far as to raise chickens to provide yourself with eggs.  I think gardening and raising your own livestock definitely fits with the Mustachian principle of using your own time and energy rather than relying on motors, cause even if you're biking to the grocery everything you buy was motored there.  And more than likely it was grown and processed with even more motors.  The cheaper it is the surer you can be of that.

masont

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 50
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2012, 06:38:38 PM »
Cheap ass meat comes from absolutely disgusting factory farms, it's pumped full of antibiotics and the meat itself has a poorer nutritional content because the animals are fed crap that they normally wouldn't eat and the animals are kept indoors in tight quarters their entire lives.  It turns out that getting exercise, fresh air and sunshine isn't just healthy for humans, but for the animals we eat too.  And if you believe in paleo (avoiding grains because they are unhealthy) you need to eat grass fed and pastured meat.  Otherwise you're just eating a byproduct of concentrated grains.
Umm, what?

We're picking up a half a cow later this month.  It's organic, spent its whole life in a pasture eating grass.  It has a name.  It will be butchered humanely.  It will cost about the same as ground beef from Costco. 

You're right about eating terrible meat (and you make a great point about not eating grain-fed animas), but not all ways to economically source meat are as you describe. 

Tashimojo

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2012, 08:00:04 AM »
Cheap ass meat comes from absolutely disgusting factory farms, it's pumped full of antibiotics and the meat itself has a poorer nutritional content because the animals are fed crap that they normally wouldn't eat and the animals are kept indoors in tight quarters their entire lives.  It turns out that getting exercise, fresh air and sunshine isn't just healthy for humans, but for the animals we eat too.  And if you believe in paleo (avoiding grains because they are unhealthy) you need to eat grass fed and pastured meat.  Otherwise you're just eating a byproduct of concentrated grains.
Umm, what?

We're picking up a half a cow later this month.  It's organic, spent its whole life in a pasture eating grass.  It has a name.  It will be butchered humanely.  It will cost about the same as ground beef from Costco. 

You're right about eating terrible meat (and you make a great point about not eating grain-fed animas), but not all ways to economically source meat are as you describe.
As I said, I'm new to the stach.  By cheap ass meat I was obviously talking about shitty quality but cheap stuff you find in groceries or costco.  I wouldn't describe picking up a half cow straight from the farm yourself as cheap ass meat.  I'd call it quality meat.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6609
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2012, 05:15:25 PM »
The last time I dug into these fad diets, the general conclusion on the internet was that they each seemed to work great for at least one ethnic group.  Someone was suggesting that certain groups of people have a unique biochemistry that may benefit enormously from something like the paleo diet, while another group of people might really struggle to stay healthy with it. 

There were lots of citations about things like lactose intolerance varying between ethnic groups, and historical diets evolving along with historical populations.  Like coastal native populations from Canada were eating ridiculous amounts of fish and blubber, but didn't really start to get horribly unhealthy until they started eating beef and potatoes.  It all seemed to make sense to me at that time.

Has this idea fallen out of favor with the fad diet community?  This was a year or two ago, and it seemed to bring some peace to the otherwise vitriolic conflicts over which diet was best.   I haven't thought much about it since, though.

Yes.  I believe this is absolutely true.  Different people benefit from different types of diets, but there are certainly many foods that should be avoided by all humans.

In my case, my brother has celiac, my nephew has autism and benefits from a gluten-free casein-free diet, and my father has wheat and dairy sensitivity.  So, as we all recently learned, the majority of us should stay away from wheat, which is how I came upon the paleo diet (I have never followed a diet in my life). 

I have my own spin on it though and am slowly learning which foods I'm sensitive to and which ones make me feel great.  But, removing gluten was the biggest trigger, as prior to that, I had no clue what made me feel good and what didn't.  Once I removed wheat, I was able to figure things out more easily.  I've also learned that sensitivity to gluten can affect many many people and that even issues in kids like ADHD can be attributed to a gluten sensitivity.

I think it's silly to follow a diet blindly, but to eliminate a large number of foods and then add foods in a little at a time, while recording how you feel and how various foods affect you, would benefit the vast majority of the population.

I agree. I've seen too many people get healthy/ get sick on various diets to believe otherwise.  I seem to be able to eat just about anything.  I have friends who are gluten sensitive, some who have Crohn's.  I've seen people thrive on a paleo diet and others thrive on a vegan diet.  What I like about both diets (and I've dabbled in both) is both tend to really focus on fresh, whole foods and plenty of produce.

I know people who are lactose intolerant and others who simply cannot do wheat in any form.

I was mostly vegetarian and felt very healthy during my first pregnancy.  I give paleo blame/credit for my 2nd, because I was on (or had just finished) the "21 day Primal Challenge" when I got pregnant this time.  I was trying to stay mostly primal this pregnancy, but was having difficulty.  I'm much better now that I've added beans back into my diet.

DigitalRain

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2012, 11:16:01 PM »
I would highly recommend against consuming this much protein regardless of source (meat or vegetarian):

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2004nl/040100puproteinoverload.htm

Your body doesn't store excess protein so if you consume more than about 15% of your calories from protein your body will just excrete the excess. So on this fact alone you're throwing away money by loading up on protein. There are also many diseases associated with excess protein intake -- "Bone loss, osteoporisis, kidney damage, kidney stones, immune dysfunction, arthritis, cancer promotion, low-energy, and overall poor health..."
Sorry, but that's simply not true. The myth that your body can only use so much protein comes from a study demonstrating that eating more than about 30g of protein in one sitting (usually in the context of a post-workout meal for bodybuilders) does not increase muscle protein synthesis. This does not mean that it's not used by your body, just that you can only use it so fast. If the human body wasted significant amounts of vital macronutrients just because you ate too much at one time, I don't think the species would still be around today. Protein is a major structural component of every cell in the body, and while it's true that the excess is not stored, it isn't wasted, rather it becomes a source of energy (4 calories per gram), and can even be converted into glucose if needed via gluconeogenesis.

As for the supposed health risks of consuming too much, I really don't think biased vegetarians quoting studies from over a hundred years ago are the best source.

HeidiO

  • Guest
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2012, 09:34:02 PM »
  I eat paleo.  When I was vegetarian for 8 years I consistently gained weight.  When I was raw vegan for 2 months, I stayed the same weight.  When I eat paleo I lose weight.  (And I need to lose weight.)  I agree paleo makes my body feel the healthiest.  My blood sugars are normal now, my BP is normal now, and I don't have reactive hypoglycemia.  I am not trying to convince anyone - just stating what has worked for me.  I have tried every diet under the sun.  Paleo is the only one that has worked for me.  If you are a thin, fit vegetarian, eating a high carb diet, you have different genes than I do.  Or a different environment.  Or a different something.  If you have always been healthy and lean, you do not know why you are healthy and lean.  The only way to know that is to have been one way (lean or fat), tried something different, and gotten different result.  Then changed that variable back, and gone back to your original state of lean or fat.  You still don't have scientific proof, but at least you know what works for you.
  And what's wrong with eating 75% meat? That could mean 50g of protein, or 200g.  And if you are measuring by calories, how are you going to eat more than 25% of your calories from veggies?  You'll never stop eating. How much broccoli is 500 calories? If over-protein is indeed a problem, then the issue will be total grams of protein, not a %.
  Back to the main point.  I find I eat so much less on paleo, I don't I spend more.  Plus, I don't find it addictive, like I do sugar, so I snack less.  I eat 2 eggs almost every morning, sometimes by themselves, sometimes w/ sweet potato and onions.  Eggs and onions are cheap.  I used to raise chickens for eggs, but don't have a coop for them right now.  And while there is a health benefit, there is not much of a price benefit.
I buy some meat grass fed, and some cheap.  I think paleo encourages frugality in that I rarely eat out when I am paleo, and I eat out all the time when I am not.  Also I don't buy expensive pre-packaged foods.  I cook mostly from scratch (when eating paleo). I don't eat food that encourages snacking, I eat food that fills me up and satisfies for hours.  So for me at least I save money.  (I'm still embarrassed by my grocery bill so I won't post it.)
Heidi

dancedancekj

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 78
  • Location: Nebraska
Re: Paleo Diet
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2012, 10:56:18 AM »
I am a recent convet to Primal (with an allowance for dairy), and I am experiencing the same effect. I finally feel satiated when I eat, and I'm not having to worry what I'm going to stuff in my maw four hours from now. The intermittent fasting is a great part of this - I can go 12-18 hours without eating, having consumed a healthy breakfast and some coffee.

My personal bias is that I feel Paleo is a sort of Mustachian way of eating. It may appear a bit impossible for some people (Give up grains!!! STFU) and may appear to be more expensive initially, but in my case it has actually led to spending less on food, despite the increased amount of fresh veggies, meat, eggs, and dairy. I buy $10 worth of meat, $10 worth of veggies, and $10 worth of dairy and I'm good to go for a week, sometimes more. I feel like a machine on this lifestyle - productivity is up, blood sugar is much more stable (no insulin crashes), digestion is better, and I know my dental health is improving with less carbohydrates consumption.

  Back to the main point.  I find I eat so much less on paleo, I don't I spend more.  Plus, I don't find it addictive, like I do sugar, so I snack less...I eat food that fills me up and satisfies for hours.  So for me at least I save money.  (I'm still embarrassed by my grocery bill so I won't post it.)
Heidi