Outdoor livings space/patio recommendations?

[Swat]

My wife and I are looking to add an outdoor living space and are just in the early stages of getting design ideas/quotes for construction to begin ~1year from now. We live on ~0.5 acre lot. Due to good financially planning, we do have some money to spend and really make it our own but at the same time don't want to overspend (50k? 75k 100k?...not sure general idea how much it'll cost). Enjoyment is much more important to us than appreciation or increase in property value. We live in Pennsylvania so we probably would not use it year round. We also have no interest in a pool. For those who have gone through the process, I'm curious your thoughts and recommendations to some of these questions, or any other suggestions in general?

-Patio vs Decking (Trex?): wife is leaning towards patio but still undecided...or even a combination
-Maintenance: we're willing to spend more up front to minimize routine maintenance down the line. Any suggestion for materials or tricks to keep annual maintenance to a minimum?
-Pavilion or not: these look impressive and provide coverage from the sun but are they worth the extra cost and hassle. For those that do have them, would you do it again?
-Fire pit vs fireplace....and direct gas line, propane or wood burning
-Outdoor Kitchen: is it worth it to have an outdoor kitchen vs just an impressive grill. If yes to outdoor kitchen, what are your most/least used features...counter space, mini fridge, etc... Any specific grill recommendations...I've heard the EVO flat top grills are really nice.
-Lighting ideas
-Drainage: we have significant drainage issues in the backyard (lots of the neighborhood does) so this is what prompted the backyard renovation to begin with. Any best systems to address this?

Any other suggestions/ideas would be appreciated

[Cranky]

Spend some time on Pinterest and see what looks right to you?

We have friends who have a very elaborate patio setup, with an outdoor kitchen and a sun sail and built in seating and a water feature and a built in fire pit. It's gorgeous, but expensive, but they entertain a lot. They also have 3 young kids and bought the lot next to their house and essentially put in a private playground.

We use our backyard a lot, but it's not that elaborate. It's NE Ohio - there's a limited amount of sitting outside time available, y'know.

Our yard is also very squishy in the spring, and we found that decking makes the backyard usable when a patio was just surrounded by mud. We have a floating deck away off to one side (it's actually where the swingset was at one point) and another deck that is right outside the back door, which was originally a patio area. Trex is a whole lot easier to maintain than wood, and the snow sweeps off it easily.

[Sandi_k]

I would be concerned about siting more than anything: you want something you can access easily (where is your sliding door?); where is the regular sunshine?; what is the slope for drainage?

We *did* build an outdoor kitchen. We had sticker shock when we saw them in the BBQ stores here - cost was ~ $2k per linear foot! So DH decided to build one for us, and it's gorgeous.

It's about 15' long, topped with granite. The left most section is ~ 2' of countertop; then we have an XLarge Big Green Egg, on a recessed and dropped plinth, also topped with fireproof granite. It has two flat drawers underneath it, for utensils. Then another 3' of granite, with a set of three drawers (wood chips, more utensils, firestarters, etc.). Then a gas grill "head", with two doors underneath it for bulky stuff, like charcoal. And then another 2' of granite counter, with an outdoor fridge underneath it.

We had a frame built for us out of aluminum (rust-proof); then DH added hardy board, and a spray on stucco, with toe kick lighting and electrical outlets. He then topped it with 1.5" of plywood, and had a granite installer install the custom countertop. Total cost was ~ $6k, and took about 6 months to build.

We also have had great luck using a PVC decking (not Trex, which has had issues with delamination). We used Azek, and DH loved it. It's expensive, but durable, and the color is dyed into it with UV protectors, so no color splotching. Colors are limited, and he had to customize some of the materials to make a handrailing for stairs as well as a gate (at the time, those were not pre-fab options; they may be, now).

Our deck is very large, and having a huge patio umbrella has been sufficient; we didn't want a pergola, as it intrudes on the feeling of spaciousness we like when outdoors. We also had to look long and hard for a patio table that didn't have an undercarriage of supports, placed just right for me to bark my knees on every time I scooted my chair in. ;)

DH also added a firepit to the deck; he removed the wood in an 8x8' section, and built a tray of hardyboard, thinset, and tile with grout; to create an area that is safe for small fires. We then just have a steel standalone firepit, relatively inexpensive.

For lighting, my big tip is put them on dimmers. Nothing worse than a lovely summer evening with a 200 watt lightbulb blaring out into the bay....

[E.T.]

I'm interested in recommendations too. I decided to put in a patio at my house but I'm still figuring out what else I want to do. I was thinking of getting a portable fire pit so we could use it out front if there's a neighbourhood block party or something. I need to figure out where to get cheap but nice outdoor furniture once the patio is built. Ideally I want a couch like set-up with storage in it but those seem to be pretty pricey for buying new.

[twe]

My big question is how much time will you spend outdoors / in or on whatever you build? Because if the answer is only an hour or two a week, I say go for a simple deck or patio and leave it at that. If it's more like an hour or two every day, then I can tell you what we have done and are in the process of doing. 

I built a fire pit and we use it an average of at least once a week year round. More in the fall / spring / winter than summer (live in OH), but it gets used a lot. Cost to do: about $200 and 40-60 hours of work.

We added a sunroom that is technically a 3 season room since the glass is single pane. However, we put a gas fireplace in which makes it a 4 season room as even when it gets down to 0F, it's still comfortable. The room is on the East side of the house, so it's shaded after lunch every day, which means it's almost never too hot in the evenings (has a good ceiling fan in it). We use the sunroom an average of two hours a day year round. Sunroom cost- about $25k. If I had it to do over again, I'd go with double pane insulated glass.

I'm in the process of redoing the deck and replacing lumber with a composite decking and will have in deck board lighting. Also ran natural gas line for the grill and will put in a natural gas fire pit on the deck (FWP-it's too hard to start a wood fire in the fire pit when it's wet...). We grill out 90-120 times a year and are on the deck an average of 30 minutes a day. Estimated cost: $6k

For lighting, we hung strands of LED's around the deck. Cost-about $50.

[ChpBstrd]

-Patio vs Decking (Trex?): wife is leaning towards patio but still undecided...or even a combination
-Maintenance: we're willing to spend more up front to minimize routine maintenance down the line. Any suggestion for materials or tricks to keep annual maintenance to a minimum?
-Pavilion or not: these look impressive and provide coverage from the sun but are they worth the extra cost and hassle. For those that do have them, would you do it again?
-Fire pit vs fireplace....and direct gas line, propane or wood burning
-Outdoor Kitchen: is it worth it to have an outdoor kitchen vs just an impressive grill. If yes to outdoor kitchen, what are your most/least used features...counter space, mini fridge, etc... Any specific grill recommendations...I've heard the EVO flat top grills are really nice.
-Lighting ideas
-Drainage: we have significant drainage issues in the backyard (lots of the neighborhood does) so this is what prompted the backyard renovation to begin with. Any best systems to address this?

Any other suggestions/ideas would be appreciated

A lot of these ideas are high-maintenance and will slightly increase your homeowners insurance. Some items, like a pavilion or pergola, will soon enough be discolored from mold/alge or encrusted with spider webs and wasp nests. Other exposed wood items, like decks, are like paying thousands of dollars now so that one can repeat the process when one is older. Also, have you seen lumber prices lately? Building anything with wood is a no-go right now.

Instead of paying for the privilege of hassling with exposed wood, stick to stone materials. Basic 12"x12" patio pavers can be had for $1.50 each, a fraction of the cost of lumber, and will still be perfectly functional 70 years later as my grandparents' timeless old patio can attest. Similarly, instead of paying stone masons to build an outdoor fireplace, just use $4 landscaping blocks to build a fire pit, or get a pre-made fire pit, and maybe put together some benches around it.

For shade, think about a canopy stretched with cables in the short term, and a tree in the long term. This is many times cheaper than wood structures.

For lighting, string lights are cheap and easy as noted above. Think through where you can plug them in as part of your patio design.

For drainage, slope your patio away from the house and consider putting a french drain underneath it. Add soil where necessary, and try to keep it an inch or two above lawn level.

Last, stay away from Pinterest and most pictures on the internet. These are all essentially sales brochures targeting people who have more money than sense and can afford to drop $50k on a place to drink beer with friends twice a year. You'll see all the most disposable "luxury" there - massive decks with pergodas and fireplaces so big they require foundation work attached to multi-million dollar McMansions. All of this will be "remodeled" when it gets mossy or cracked and therefore no longer impressive to the people it is supposed to impress.

Build something basic with good drainage and apply the time savings to enjoying it!

[iris lily]

We have a large brick patio at the back of our 1885 brick house. It is lovely and  low maintenance. Personally I hate “decks” as modern carbuncles on the faces of our houses in this neighborhood. Ugh.

So, I would suggest taking a cue from the age and style of your house to decide.

And then as pointed out above, siting is key. If you don’t have flat ground, I suppose a patio is out of the question.

My my country house we will have to have some sort of deck because it is one a hill, but I don’t want a big elaborate one. My house there is a 1941 bungalow.

[jrhampt]

I've been trying to figure this out, too. These are my top wants in an outdoor space:
Economical to create
Very low maintenance
How to create shade
Don't want to have to deal with permitting issues

We have a small deck on the south-facing side of our house (which is really the only place for it), and it gets bombarded by the sun all day even though it's got some arbor vitae and shrubs around it (there's not really room for a shade tree.  It is aging and will need to be replaced.  I dislike wood decks because they need constant maintenance, as previously mentioned.  So we're thinking we have two main options - replace the wood deck with trex, or replace it with a stone or brick patio.  Both would be lower maintenance but the patio option would probably be less expensive (?).  Then there's figuring out how to create shade.  Raised beds with shrubs are one option.  Some kind of posts with a sun shade are another, but I'm not sure how to attach posts to a patio and we do get a LOT of wind here on the shore.  Then I had also considered some kind of pergola structure (there you run into a potential maintenance problem, though - maybe vinyl or some other wood substitute is an option here) with vines covering it for shade and attractiveness.  Could be ivy, honeysuckle, or wisteria is popular around here too. 

[Frugal Lizard]

Your list seems to leap to the features, not starting with how you really anticipate living in the space.  I would step back and analyze in true mustachian style what activities you need to support with the infrastructure and how much time you want to spend maintaining it.

I would never do an outdoor kitchen as it seems to me to be another kitchen that I would need to clean.  I clean our outdoor family room once a week because it gets so dusty and dirty.  I don't mind because it takes 30 minutes to wipe all the surfaces down and sweep. But I sit there several times a day because it is so lovely. I don't often BBQ because it takes 10 minutes to clean it up and well, my stove is already clean...and all the food and tools are right there.

Will you use the outdoor kitchen for two meals every weekend?
How often will you eat outside.  How many people?
Measure how big a comfortable dining room is and make your outdoor dining room bigger. Outdoor furniture is bigger and constrained outdoor space feels meaner than the same constrained spaces indoors. Can the patio area spill out to a flattish lawn for larger events? (why are you driving a car big enough for that once a year trip to the dump every day?)
If it is a quiet hammock you're seeking, then you may need shade, insect protection and visual screening.  How will the garden transition to accommodate young'uns or stand up to furry friends?

Shade structure - how much do you need shade? 
Our covered porch is great in the spring and fall - and summer after dark.  In the summer during daylight, it is too hot, even with the shade from the redbuds I planted ten years ago.  But it doesn't warm up until mid-day.

The back porch is too cool most evenings as it is only sunny in the morning.  But in high summer, a shade tent that keeps out the mosquitoes, it is lovely.  Weekend mornings it is our place for a quiet breakfast/coffee/paper.

As a rule of thumb - the more you spend on the materials, the less you spend on maintenance.  But there are exceptions to that.  Some materials are more expensive due to trends.  If a patio is possible, yes over a deck.  My favourite gardens had a small deck to keep the BBQ close to the kitchen and had space for two to sit.  Then stairs down to a large patio.

Don't scrimp on the preparation.  We are in a freeze/thaw zone so expensive flagstone laid on an insufficient base = mess in the spring with uneven surface and cracks and spalling.

Catalogue the existing conditions particularly the drainage patterns.  Doesn't matter how much you spend on infrastructure - poor drainage will wreck it.  But if you design for it, drainage can be turned into an attractive feature (rain garden, rain barrels for planting irrigation)  Having a water feature will attract birds which make a garden lovely.

Outside The Not So Big House:
Creating the Landscape of Home by Julie Moir Messervy and Sarah Susanka  is a pretty comprehensive introduction to planning outdoor living spaces that is not trying to sell you products the way Pinterest does.
 

[Taran Wanderer]

Fire pit:  Solo Stove fire pit.  A bit expensive, but stainless steel so will last forever.  Design heavily reduces or even eliminates smoke.  Gets super hot super fast and yet cools down and can be moved a couple hours later or the next day.  Move it wherever you want!  Put it on some wood sleepers or a concrete stepping stone, and you can even use it on your Trex deck.

Deck:  If you go this route, use pressure treated lumber, Trex (or equivalent), stainless screws/nails/joist saddles, and it will last forever.

Pavilion?  A buddy just had one built.  It's maybe 20' x 20', open on three sides, has a narrow storage closet on the fourth, cedar finish on the underside of the roof.  It provides privacy, shade, rain protection, and wind protection.  It's high enough that he can use the solo stove underneath it in the colder months, and since the Solo Stove is portable, it can move out elsewhere if you're doing something else under the awning.

If you add water and power, you can even work under the pavilion when the whether permits.  WFH in your own outdoor office!

[K_in_the_kitchen]

Our house had a rear deck when we bought it.  We eventually had it torn down, and our kid pulled out the pilings.  When it came time to decide what we wanted, we decided against a deck.  It would have been expensive to do one with Trex or Azec, and we didn't want the maintenance that comes with a painted deck (ours was painted and from pressure treated wood, but still got some rot).  We went with a poured concrete patio (and had stairs poured as well).  We knew we wanted it to be easy to clean and to last the rest of our lives, and concrete fit the bill.

We don't have a patio cover.  I like the alumawood solid covers, but I don't want one badly enough to pay for one.  But we have shade on the front porch in the first half of the day, and shade in our side area -- we have a porte cochere (but since it's gated we don't use it as such) and a nice shade tree in the space between the porte cochere and the garage (where we don't park the car).  The side "yard" is like a huge side patio that's partially covered by the large porte cochere, and for large gatherings we set up tables and chairs both in the rear and the side.  The way the house is oriented any mid-afternoon and later gathering will have shade on the back patio.  In fact, soon after we bought the house we put up a portable pavilion and realized we rarely used the back yard in the morning hours.  We do have a large umbrella at at the table on the rear patio, so we have a small amount of shade if we'd rather have a morning break out there instead of on our front porch.

As for furniture, I would argue against a large table unless your immediate family is large enough to require it or you have frequent outdoor dinner parties where everyone is going to sit down at one table at the same time.  We have two patio dining sets -- one is round and seats 5 just fine (purchased by us 21 years ago and the store manager through in the 5th chair since we were buying the last table and 4 chairs), the other seats 4 (given to us when my dad moved).  Since there are 4 of us, we only need one table to sit at, but having two means we can have them in different areas.  When we have larger gatherings we set up longer folding tables and folding chairs (again gifted when someone moved).

I pined for an outdoor kitchen for years.  I didn't want one of the click expensive ones -- I prefer simple outdoor kitchens people create on their own, without refrigerators and all that.  But in the end I'm happy with a gas grill with a side burner (given to us when my dad moved) and a small table beside it to hold what I need for cooking.  I realized I don't need to be able to wash dishes outside.  When it's just us we bring out a pitcher of lemonade or ice water, and if we have a lot of people over we use Igloos (usually one with ice water and one with lemonade or iced tea).  We never serve individual beverages anymore, but if we wanted to we could use an ice chest.

We had a portable propane fire pit and got rid of it.  Our summers are too hot to enjoy hanging out by a fire, and in winter the energy isn't such that we want to hang out in the backyard after dark -- we'd rather be inside building puzzles, playing board games, etc.  If I were to get one again I would probably get a wood burning Solo Stove.  I love the wood burning clay chimineas, but at our house one could easily be overturned and broken by large rambunctious dogs.

We haven't done much with lighting yet, other than the light fixtures on the house next to the French doors.  Around here it seems almost everyone uses a combination of large LED light strands from Costco and solar garden lights.

For the drainage issues, hire someone experienced with working with slope.  My dad had a vast concrete driveway laid and the company fixed the terrible slope and also put in drains.  When I was a kid we'd end up with a pool of water 6" deep in the driveway, and seriously my mom wouldn't drive us to school if it was deep (the driveway was smaller and her car would be parked in the pool of water).  The new driveway never has water pool, ever.

We're still working on the landscaping.  We had a pomegranate tree put in, and a bed with various plants, and I don't love it.  The tree is either situated wrong or was the wrong variety for our zone.  We're going to pull all of that out and do a "Hollywood" style hedge along the rear fence for more privacy.  Our rear neighbors have been gaming the permit process -- they built a carport, let it sit for a year without using it at all, recently converted it into a garage, and I'm sure the intent is for it to be an ADU.  That's all fine for them, but I don't need someone with a window into my backyard 4 feet from the fence.  If they had built a garage instead of a carport first they would have had to build it farther from the fence.  There are far too many good reasons not to move, so we're going to spend the money on privacy.

[Spiffy]

My advice is to buy nice outdoor furniture. For years I would buy outdoor wicker chairs from World Market or Target and they would last 2 or 3 years, then start to fall apart and I would have to replace them. I finally wised up this year and bought teak chairs. They are expensive, but should last for decades. They are on the backyard patio which is covered and is right outside of the french doors and can be seen from many rooms of the house, so I want it to look nice all of the time.

[ChpBstrd]

My advice is to buy nice outdoor furniture. For years I would buy outdoor wicker chairs from World Market or Target and they would last 2 or 3 years, then start to fall apart and I would have to replace them. I finally wised up this year and bought teak chairs. They are expensive, but should last for decades. They are on the backyard patio which is covered and is right outside of the french doors and can be seen from many rooms of the house, so I want it to look nice all of the time.

I once bought those chairs with stretched trampoline material between two metal rails. Very comfortable, but started falling apart and dripping rusty water after 1y. The paint started chalking off on my clothes. The glass-topped table that came with it was always covered in a filthy grime of dust, pollen, and bird poop. It all went to the curb, along with a couple hundred dollars of my money.

This disposable garbage was replaced with simple all-metal furniture about 6 years ago. They're still on their first $5 spray paint re-paint job and they look new. The rain rinses them clean instead of encrusting them with goop.

I look at all these advertisements for patio crap like rugs, pillows, upholstered couches made of wicker, and think about how all these four-figure "sets" get disgusting after the first rain. I suppose as a good consumer you're supposed to send them to the landfill and buy a new set the following year. And if you're putting rugs on a wood deck - dear god just set a fistful of cash on fire and get it over with the quick way rather than rotting out a circle in the wood under your Lowes alge sponge and complaining to your future contractor why your deck didn't last.