Author Topic: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping  (Read 7048 times)

jeromedawg

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Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« on: February 21, 2016, 09:56:20 PM »
It's so frustrating... we just moved him into his own room and in a crib. Previously, maybe about 2 weeks ago, he was still in our room and in a cosleeper pen. Either way, he has never been able to fully sleep through the night and normally wakes up 2+ times a night. Everyone who tells me their kid sleeps 5-7+ hours through night without waking up *on average* I shake my fist at. Our kid is pretty happy otherwise but when it comes to being put down for sleep he's the worst. Really don't know what to do or how to comfort him - they say let him cry and go in every 5-15 mins to comfort them. We do that yet he cries even with us there. He won't stop until we take him out of the crib and either rock him or feed him back to sleep... all the things you're not supposed to do. It's a horrible vicious cycle. Basically, he'll pretty much cry for hours upon hours even if you go in there and try to calm him by talking to him and patting him or whatever.


Anyone ever go through anything like this? What did you end up doing? Yesterday we were out at a friend's and he wouldn't take his nap so I had to stroll him around the block and he fell asleep during. There's no way we're going to do that every time he needs to nap or sleep though...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 10:02:25 PM by jplee3 »

obstinate

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2016, 10:22:01 PM »
We did unmitigated extinction: cry it out with no breaks. It worked, like behaviorism says it should and empirical evidence suggests it does. We don't know any other couples for whom it hasn't worked.

There is no evidence that it harms the baby, but some opinionated people say it does anyway. There have been attempts to show that it harms children, but none have, to the best of my knowledge. There are two possibilities: one is that there is actually no harm, and another is that there is harm, but no study has yet managed to capture it. Of course, we believe the former, otherwise we wouldn't have done it. But that is something you have to decide for yourself.

If you do it, you shouldn't do it half heartedly. A random schedule of rewards is the most reinforcing possible schedule. That is, if you go in to comfort the baby sometimes, but not others, that reinforces the crying behavior even more than if you always comfort the baby. You have to pretty much never go in there once you have put the baby to sleep. If you and your partner can't handle that, then you probably should not try this technique. For us, it significantly reduced nighttime wakings within a week of starting it. It also significantly reduced our stress. On the one hand, it hurts to hear your baby cry. On the other hand, there was no longer any wondering whether we'd go in if he did start crying. The answer was no, every time, so we didn't have to stress about it.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 10:23:58 PM by obstinate »

obstinate

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2016, 10:27:52 PM »
BTW, there's a pretty high likelihood that something like this will happen. You need to be prepared for that.

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 10:40:44 PM »
Yeah, we tried the Ferber/CIO method and failed miserably at it with our first child.  So we co-sleep and have been with our next two kids.  I don't think there is any right way to sleep train if that's even a thing.  It is whatever works for your family.  I know it's hard to compare experiences but each child and family are different, you just have to accept that you child doesn't like sleeping alone and you/wife don't have the heart to let them continue crying.

I did it one time to my first born and he cried for about 30 minutes and then fell asleep.  I had to lock the door to keep my wife from barging through the door.  Eventually all kids will fall asleep guaranteed, no kid can cry forever.  It is a matter of, will the parent let their kids cry until they fall asleep.

I felt horrible doing it the first time and my wife said never again and she takes the brunt of the kids waking up in the middle of the night to feed or to be put back to sleep.

jeromedawg

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2016, 11:23:07 PM »
So our breaking point has been when he won't stop crying between 1-2 hours. Is that completely normal for the CIO method? Most people I hear their kids will CIO within the first half hour and be OK. 1-2 hours seems like a lot and it's pretty incessant. I feel like he has had "extinction burst" the entire time where his crying it out is almost always exaggerated and extreme. He'll scream (those nasty high-pitched girly screams) and wail nonstop for 1-2 hours in the middle of the night. My wife usually can't take it so she ends up going in to try to fix it. She's been more sleep deprived than I have but neither of us have had a decent night's rest in a really long time.

So the probable solution to this if we are able to 'ignore' it is just to do that? And maybe grab a couple pairs of earplugs and or noise-cancelling headphones?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 11:26:41 PM by jplee3 »

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2016, 11:45:32 PM »
He's not teething is he?
Ours was a good sleeper, but we were shit out of luck while he was teething. Not much we could do but wait it out, cosleep, and have him nurse a lot to sooth himself (pacifiers also helped a bit).

What kind of diapers do you use? Around the same point that our son started teething, he seemed to get a better awareness of being wet and getting annoyed by that; we switched to disposable diapers overnight at that point. Pocket diapers with a stay dry liner seems to work well now (tip I read on this forum), so we've thankfully backed up a bit on the disposable diapers overnight.

He is back to being a good sleeper again, but it does seem to get worse as he gets evidence of getting more teeth. Damn teeth..

Strangely enough, during all this, we had taken him on vacation with us, and he slept no problem there. I don't know if it was the warm air, the ocean breeze, or the noise of the ocean. Try going on a tropical vacation. Worst case, at least you can drink :)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 10:41:23 AM by CanuckExpat »

ahoy

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2016, 12:54:52 AM »
Sorry to hear this.  I had the same problem with my two kids.  All our friends kids who were way older than our baby would tell us how good their babies were at sleeping and how they slept though the night.  After awhile I pretty much thought that they were lying, I really believe that they had forgotten (as this was yrs ago for them), so just ignore what they say. 

If your baby is crying for two hours without you, I believe this is too long. They need to sleep.  We had a rocking chair, but I did not want to use it in fear of our child getting use to this (so we used this occasionally).  The baby would end up in our bed half way though the night.  It is precious time with them and they are only this little for a short period of time. 

We did the crying out method and it usually works, 6 mths is a good age to do this, any older and it seems get more difficult.  But you can't have baby crying for hrs.  We also sat on the floor as the baby was in the crib and creep closer to the door every night. 

Also, our daytime sleeps were usually walking in the stroller.  I would often run errands this way, plus getting exercise.  Don't let anybody make you feel bad.  This is yr child.

Also, if baby is still getting fed in the night, see if you can try to start weaning off of these feeds.  Give formula for evening feed to get them though the night.  Babies really don't need too much in the night  after 6, 7, 8 mths.  I know mothers that were still getting up to feed their healthy 20 month old in the night.  Yikes... not a good idea.   Some habits need to be broken earlier rather than later.  Both my babies were weaned out of their nighttime feeds around 6 months.

I also learned that some babies just don't need as much sleep as others.  My oldest seemed to be just fine with not a lot of sleep.  You will get though this, it might not seem this way right now though.  They grow very fast.   Good luck.

11ducks

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2016, 01:46:08 AM »
Really don't know what to do or how to comfort him - they say let him cry and go in every 5-15 mins to comfort them. We do that yet he cries even with us there. He won't stop until we take him out of the crib and either rock him or feed him back to sleep... all the things you're not supposed to do. It's a horrible vicious cycle. Basically, he'll pretty much cry for hours upon hours even if you go in there and try to calm him by talking to him and patting him or whatever.

Anyone ever go through anything like this? What did you end up doing? Yesterday we were out at a friend's and he wouldn't take his nap so I had to stroll him around the block and he fell asleep during. There's no way we're going to do that every time he needs to nap or sleep though...

Seriously, f**k what people tell you babies are "supposed to do". Some are naturally great sleepers, others aren't. Some respond to controlled crying/passing out from exhaustion, others don't. Just do what works for you, and let go of the guilt of what you 'should' be doing, or what other babies are doing. If co-sleeping (safely) or sharing a room or rocking to sleep works for you, then do it. 

The first year is such a rough time, do whatever you can to make it easier on yourself. My son was an awful sleeper, so when he fell asleep, whether in the pram, the car seat bassinet or next to me, I left him (safely obviously). As they get older, and your sleep reserves build back up, then you can deal with breaking bad habits and/or setting them up to sleep the way you want. Just be gentle on yourself - i'm sure you're doing a great job!

arebelspy

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 02:24:16 AM »
The wife read, and enjoyed, this book:
Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child

I can't tell you if it'll work for us, as our little one is only 3 weeks old, but that would just be an anecdote anyways.  The reviews are phenomenal.

That's what I'm planning on turning to in situations like this: highly rated books from experts.

Because, as 11ducks says, each child is different.  But books like this generally cover the range, and especially when things "go wrong" and the common problems and pitfalls.

(IIRC, for situations like this, you slowly ease them into it, and you make sleeping a happy time, and their crib a good thing, that sort of thing, but I didn't read the book, just got snippets from the wife.)

That's the first thing I would do though, because the problem is likely more complicated than a short forum post will be able to answer.

Good luck!  :)
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asiljoy

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 05:21:32 AM »
Our kid was a straight up terrible sleeper. During the 4 month sleep regression we had to call in reinforcements because he'd only sleep if someone was holding him and cry it out resulted in a vomiting baby. Lasted about a week and then suddenly he went back to normal. Happened at pretty much every textbook regression bookmark. What ended up kind of working for us was giving him a lullaby that we played/sang every time he went to bed so he'd associate the end of that song with sleep. At first we played it until he got sleepy and put him down, and weened that back over time so now it's one and done regardless of the time of night. If he cries after we put him back in his crib, we give it five and repeat. Usually don't get passed a second playing.

For getting him to go to sleep, routine. Every night since that 4 month sleep regression, we do the same thing no matter where we are, almost religiously. Milk, change diaper, pj's, 3 books, same 'Good Night' book, lullaby, then sleep. Not going to say it's worked like a charm, but it's worked to save our sanity. 

chemistk

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 06:28:47 AM »
I'm right there with you, feel every ounce of your pain, frustration, and lack of sleep. Our son is 10 months old and won't sleep more than 30 minutes at a time unless he's in our bed. We have tried (and tried some more) the CIO method to no avail. If we put him in the crib to cry, he'll go to sleep anywhere from 2 minutes later to never (seriously...one night he cried for 4 hours straight). Plus, we have an upstairs neighbor who absolutely can hear everything, so there's only so long we can let the crying go for at night.

On top of that, our son has "slept through the night" a grand total of 3 times, all of which we consider to be flukes. He wakes 3-5 times to take a bottle and then goes back to sleep. He's getting better, but it's a slow process.

Like others said, there is no right or wrong solution. For some, things go smoothly and for others, its an absolute pain. The biggest thing my wife and I have learned is to not place any expectations on ourselves or our son. We love cuddling with him at night and there's only so long that we'll be able to do this. Eventually (2 months or 2 years) he'll sleep through the night in his own bed. We'll keep trying what we can to get him there but every baby's different. We also tell ourselves that it's often babies who have high levels of brain activity who wake often.

Keep trying and hang in there. The best thing you can do is to stop worrying about it and especially stop listening to "suggestions" others may have. Don't get envious and don't get frustrated when people try to help (even the pediatrician). Just politely say thank-you, and then don't bring it up again in conversation.

Neustache

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2016, 06:45:33 AM »
We did unmitigated extinction: cry it out with no breaks. It worked, like behaviorism says it should and empirical evidence suggests it does. We don't know any other couples for whom it hasn't worked.

There is no evidence that it harms the baby, but some opinionated people say it does anyway. There have been attempts to show that it harms children, but none have, to the best of my knowledge. There are two possibilities: one is that there is actually no harm, and another is that there is harm, but no study has yet managed to capture it. Of course, we believe the former, otherwise we wouldn't have done it. But that is something you have to decide for yourself.

If you do it, you shouldn't do it half heartedly. A random schedule of rewards is the most reinforcing possible schedule. That is, if you go in to comfort the baby sometimes, but not others, that reinforces the crying behavior even more than if you always comfort the baby. You have to pretty much never go in there once you have put the baby to sleep. If you and your partner can't handle that, then you probably should not try this technique. For us, it significantly reduced nighttime wakings within a week of starting it. It also significantly reduced our stress. On the one hand, it hurts to hear your baby cry. On the other hand, there was no longer any wondering whether we'd go in if he did start crying. The answer was no, every time, so we didn't have to stress about it.

Extinction did not work for us.  After 3 days (when it should get better) my daughter ramped it up and the crying started getting longer, not shorter.  At that point I gave up because the doctor said after 3 days it should get shorter and shorter.  So maybe we just didn't do it long enough, but knowing my daughter, she's just quirky as all get out and things that should work for other kids don't for her.  Listening to kids cry spikes cortisol and can be a very bad thing with a sleep deprived parent....

Plus then they end up pooping (my son) and if you don't take care of it they get huge rashes, or at least he did.   We just gave up with him early due to the pooping.  I co-slept with him, but he's still co-sleeping at 4 so beware (although as he's my last I'm kind of savoring it).  I wish I had co-slept with my daughter. 


Anyways, I feel your pain, CIO does not always work (or at least, the kid outlasts you and doesn't do what they are supposed to do!).  I've also been a SAHM this whole time so the lack of sleep is doable because I can nap if I really need it during the day.  If your wife is working - is there a time and place where she can doze for a bit during the day?


meerkat

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2016, 07:02:09 AM »
Someone already linked to the Precious Little Sleep blog, but try reading this three part series of posts about getting your baby to sleep through the night. Part 1, Part 2, Part 3.

We're just now getting our eight month old to sleep through the night (previous attempts were wrecked by the holidays and back to back to back illnesses) so I feel your pain. I hope this helps!

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2016, 07:24:59 AM »
We went through this a while back (our son is 3 1/2 now), and there never seemed to be any rhyme or reason to what worked and what didn't.

He was a huge fan of the swaddle (we stole the Halo sleep sack from the hospital, that thing was a godsend). Other than that he would cry for hours on end (sometimes related to trying to get him to sleep, sometimes just for fun). We found two things that worked reliably. Sitting in the bathroom with the tub faucet running and standing in the dark bedroom, swaying back and forth with Mumford & Sons' "Timshel" playing. To this day, he still loves that song. I know running water to soothe a baby is technically wasteful, but it's cheaper than being admitted to a mental ward. At least run it on full cold. ;-)

obstinate

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2016, 07:34:05 AM »

Extinction did not work for us.  After 3 days (when it should get better) my daughter ramped it up and the crying started getting longer, not shorter. 
This is called an extinction burst. Very common pattern in any kind of habit extinction training. I linked an article about it in my second post.

Tetsuya Hondo

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2016, 07:57:16 AM »
Our child is now 22 months old. From 6 weeks on she started sleeping in longer and longer blocks. Then, around eight months, it all went to hell. We were running on a few hours a sleep a night (not even continuous) for several weeks. We tried everything including all of the "no-cry" methods. Nothing worked.

Finally we gave Ferber a try. We had avoided it because we experimented with CIO for a while and it felt cruel to us. However, Ferber is not the same as CIO as you have regular check-ins according to a scheule, which made us feel better although there's still crying. The first couple nights were tough and we almost called it off, but thankfully we stuck with it and by the third night she was sleeping 10 hours and it soon became 12 hours. We couldn't believe it. After crying a few minutes when we left her room she just plopped down and went to sleep. It was like freaking magic. Within a week there was no crying at all.

In retrospect, I would have done either Ferber (get the book to do it right, not half ass version we had tried earlier - also the book has guidelines for how long to let them cry, when to get them, etc.) much earlier in the process. I know realize it's far less cruel than letting a child go without sleep. Their little bodies really need it. Seeing your child be a sleepy, weepy mess all through the day is just heartbreaking.

Sleep is a skill that they have to learn on their own. It's crazy and counter intuitive, but you have to give them the chance to figure out how to do it.

Hang in there, we've all been there. It will get better. And when you get that first good night of sleep again, you'll feel like a new person.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 07:59:25 AM by Tetsuya Hondo »

AZDude

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2016, 08:33:07 AM »
Anyone ever go through anything like this? What did you end up doing? Yesterday we were out at a friend's and he wouldn't take his nap so I had to stroll him around the block and he fell asleep during. There's no way we're going to do that every time he needs to nap or sleep though...

The battles we would have with out LO to get her to nap were epic. Eventually, a little after turning 2, we gave up. Instead we gave her "quiet time" to play in her room(and giving us a break). So much better for everyone.

As far as sleeping through the night... Some kids are sleepers, some are not. Absolutely understand though that every time you walk in and take your child out of the crib when he cries, you are training him to cry when he wants out. DO NOT DO IT!

Get a baby monitor with video. Aim it into the crib so you can see if he is OK. Then, when he cries, look at the monitor, determine whether he really does need you or not. If not, go back to sleep and let him cry it out. We tried the Ferber method, but it never seemed to work. CIO worked, and eventually she stopped crying altogether and would just sleep.

charis

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2016, 08:36:46 AM »
Anyone ever go through anything like this? What did you end up doing? Yesterday we were out at a friend's and he wouldn't take his nap so I had to stroll him around the block and he fell asleep during. There's no way we're going to do that every time he needs to nap or sleep though...

My second kid never once slept through the night until his was almost 11 months old and I finally agreed to try the "cry it out" method.  We only did it for two nights. On the second night, he finally slept through.  He still wakes up now and again briefly, but nothing like before.

Sorry to hear this.  I had the same problem with my two kids.  All our friends kids who were way older than our baby would tell us how good their babies were at sleeping and how they slept though the night.  After awhile I pretty much thought that they were lying, I really believe that they had forgotten (as this was yrs ago for them), so just ignore what they say. 

Not necessarily.  My first slept through the night at less than a week old (more than 8 hours) and by 6 weeks she was sleeping through every night.  It was nothing special that we did, she was just a good sleeper.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 08:39:48 AM by jezebel »

little_brown_dog

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2016, 08:54:35 AM »
We lucked out with our daughter - she's a fabulous sleeper so far (but we are only 5mo so we'll see). But she sucked at breastfeeding. We were so terrible at it she ended up in the hospital because she was basically starving. It seems like every baby struggles with something - sleeping, breastfeeding, spitting up/acid reflux, etc. Sounds like you got the short end of the stick with sleeping, which is extra tough because sleep deprivation is a form of torture.

Our method we used to try to get her to sleep longer (when she was about 2.5-3 mo) was to leave her in her cosleeper beside the bed when she fussed, and just reach in, pop her pacifier in, and then let our hand rest on her chest. That way, she was soothed, she knew we were with her, but we did not lift her, get up, or turn on the lights. Basically we just tried to soothe her in a way that didn't overstimulate her at all or send the message that it was anything but time to sleep. We rarely need to do this now. Obviously this method won't work for you since she is no longer next to the bed.

I'm sure you already tried all of this, but what I've heard is that the key is not to overstimulate a baby when it is sleep time, even if they are fighting/crying. I've also heard that some babies respond really well to strict bedtime rituals - the same pattern before every nap and bedtime. Think change, bottle, lights low, and the same song every time. No changes, no switching stuff around, and no giving in when they cry (because if you go in and out, then you are changing the ritual). I don't know if it will work, but it might be worth a shot if you are willing to let the kiddo lose it until they fall asleep for the first few times. Hopefully after a few days the baby will be looking sleepy by the end of the ritual and will find it easier to doze off in the crib.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 09:04:22 AM by little_brown_dog »

jeromedawg

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2016, 08:57:19 AM »
Wow, thanks for everyone sharing their experiences! I'm still reading through things, but apparently last night after posting I put my son down sometime between 9-10pm and my wife said he only woke up once and at 6am this morning. So he supposedly slept closer to 8 hours. WTH... I guess he read this thread and started feeling bad :P

We'll see what happens from here. That's the longest he's ever slept in a single stretch. But these kinds of stretches and few and far between (e.g. he's only slept 4 and 6 hr stretches less than a handful of times)

RelaxedGal

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2016, 09:57:00 AM »
With ours, it was acid reflux the first 6 weeks.  Got a prescription for Ranitidine (lifesaver!) and she slept well until ~ 6 months when teething started in earnest.  Teething pain kept her awake, Orajel helped her get to sleep and Advil helped her stay asleep.  Advil = 6 hours of sleep for mommy, Tylenol = 4.  Better living through chemistry. 

She's now 5 and when she gets into a routine of night waking/circadian rhythm is off we give her melatonin before bed  or to get her back to sleep in the night.  We give her 1/4 of a child's dose (0.25mg) which shouldn't do much but it knocks her right out.  Won't help with such a little one but I thought I'd toss the idea out there for when your little one is school age.

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2016, 10:24:06 AM »
The wife read, and enjoyed, this book:
Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child

I read that book when our daughter was around 6-7 mo old out of sheer desperation. It was very very helpful. Every kid is different, but I do remember it covered a lot of scenarios and info. Including the most important formula: more sleep=more sleep, which seems counterintuitive. But an overly tired infant is apparently too tired to sleep all night, which was our scenario. So add more/longer naps and overnight sleep actually improves. Crazy!

She was sleeping well from 2 mo to 6 mo, then teething started and it was a nightmare. She wasn't napping well, so I naively thought she needed less naps. Wrong! So we did more naps, sleep training for naps and bedtime, got her a 'best friend' stuffed animal (which still goes with her everywhere today at almost 4 yo) and a lullaby/light elephant thing she could turn on herself. And it worked! Add infant motrin for the worst teething episodes, and the problem was resolved in a month or so. Good luck!

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2016, 10:25:33 AM »
The wife read, and enjoyed, this book:
Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child

I read that book when our daughter was around 6-7 mo old out of sheer desperation. It was very very helpful. Every kid is different, but I do remember it covered a lot of scenarios and info. Including the most important formula: more sleep=more sleep, which seems counterintuitive. But an overly tired infant is apparently too tired to sleep all night, which was our scenario. So add more/longer naps and overnight sleep actually improves. Crazy!

That was a big takeaway for my wife, as well.  When they get overtired, and thus can't sleep.
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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2016, 10:50:44 AM »
With ours, it was acid reflux the first 6 weeks.  Got a prescription for Ranitidine (lifesaver!) and she slept well until ~ 6 months when teething started in earnest.  Teething pain kept her awake, Orajel helped her get to sleep and Advil helped her stay asleep.  Advil = 6 hours of sleep for mommy, Tylenol = 4.  Better living through chemistry. 

Oh ya, we were also happy with the baby Tylenol when the teething screams and no sleep were in in full affect.
Babies suck, drugs are awesome :)

NoStacheOhio

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2016, 10:52:10 AM »
That was a big takeaway for my wife, as well.  When they get overtired, and thus can't sleep.

Gah, this! Or when he falls asleep in his car seat 10 minutes from home. Then wakes up when we get home and won't go back to sleep!

little_brown_dog

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2016, 10:58:10 AM »
With ours, it was acid reflux the first 6 weeks.  Got a prescription for Ranitidine (lifesaver!) and she slept well until ~ 6 months when teething started in earnest.  Teething pain kept her awake, Orajel helped her get to sleep and Advil helped her stay asleep.  Advil = 6 hours of sleep for mommy, Tylenol = 4.  Better living through chemistry. 

Oh ya, we were also happy with the baby Tylenol when the teething screams and no sleep were in in full affect.
Babies suck, drugs are awesome :)

I've heard putting a solid rubber pacifier (like an avent soothie) in the fridge to cool it can be great for those teething babies who enjoy falling asleep with a pacifier. I guess the coolness helps reduce the pain as they doze off (although it obviously won't prevent them from waking in pain). I've got this trick on my list as one of the first to try when our daughter starts teething given her enthusiasm for binkies.

Oh and for books - we read Baby Wise. You really need to read it before having the baby (or in the early baby weeks) but we used that method and it seemed to work. Basically just ensuring the baby stays on an eat, wake time, sleep time schedule so they naturally regulate their own sleep patterns within a couple months. The authors contend that letting kids skip around without adhering to a normal waking and sleeping pattern can make it tougher for them to regulate since they don't have any concept of day/night.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 11:01:05 AM by little_brown_dog »

Kaydedid

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2016, 11:14:50 AM »
Couple of things to try:
If the heat is turned way down at night, kiddo might be cold, especially since blankets are verboten.  We had a heater in the room to keep it around 72, but cranked it up to 77 and it helped a ton, as did adding a sleep sack over the pajamas for especially cold nights. 

Sounds crazy, but baby probiotics.  There's some thought that issues like croup may be gastric distress.  Completely anecdotal, but kiddo is normally an easy baby, but got really fussy the few times we stopped the probiotics.

We did unmitigated extinction, and it worked for us, but every kid is different.  Lots of suggestions on here and elsewhere-give 'em all a try until you find what works.

charis

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2016, 11:18:29 AM »
Oh and for books - we read Baby Wise. You really need to read it before having the baby (or in the early baby weeks) but we used that method and it seemed to work. Basically just ensuring the baby stays on an eat, wake time, sleep time schedule so they naturally regulate their own sleep patterns within a couple months. The authors contend that letting kids skip around without adhering to a normal waking and sleeping pattern can make it tougher for them to regulate since they don't have any concept of day/night.

This is great idea, and everyone should do it.  But some babies are just "poor" sleepers and no amount of scheduling can change that.  Trust me.  I kept daily logs recording everything we did to discern a pattern concerning my colicky, screaming, up all night baby.

MsPeacock

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2016, 11:38:06 AM »
Gah. My kids were "bad sleepers" in that they didn't go easily to bed and didn't sleep well at night. The oldest was by far the worst. And *nothing* worked. You know what -  he is 12 now and he is still a bad sleeper, it is just less of a problem for me. Neither kid, even the relatively "good sleeper" didn't sleep consistently at night until they were 2 1/2 years old. And you know what else -  I'm a terrible sleeper. I wake up, I need stuff at night, and have periods of restlessness, I want water, or I am too hot or too cold, etc. I'm just big enough to deal with it on my own. Try some stuff w/ your baby that feels ok for you (CIO did not work for my kids, and it didn't work for me) and eventually things will get better. Try not to stress and definitely tune out people who tell you that you just need to do "x" or just do "y" like they did and your kid will sleep perfectly.

catccc

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2016, 11:45:30 AM »
I think a 6 month old waking up 2x/night is not unusual.  IDK why people get the impression that it is.  I considered both of my babies to be decent sleepers, despite all the energy their sleep habits drained from us.  My night parenting methods really varied between my two babies, and and the end of the day (around 1.5) they were both doing well and sleeping in their own rooms.  They also aren't kids that get up at the crack of dawn or end up in our bed at some point in the night.  (Because I hear of older kids that like to do this.)  No way to tell if it is their personalities or our methods...

I liked "healthy sleep habits, healthy child" and "The no-cry sleep solution" was a very good book for us.  I probably read 10-12 books on sleep.  Our first at 9 month woke up 13 times in a single night for her pacifier, and we quit cold turkey after I recorded events for that night, which seemed usual to me, I just didn't realize how nuts it was.

Kids are 4 & 7 now.  The older one reads a sign on our bedroom door on saturday mornings and they know we are sleeping in.  They play quietly and leave us alone until whatever time is noted on the post-it.  It's great.  Just letting you know that the future looks bright, and it'll be here before you know it.  Kids- the day/nights are long but the years are short.

Cassie

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2016, 12:21:52 PM »
WE never did co-sleeping because it sets up the expectancy that they will always be with you. They should be in their own crib. I had 3 kids and by 3-5 months all were sleeping through the night. With my oldest we went thru some crying, etc and I never let them cry longer then 30 min.'s and within a week he went to sleep without crying.  Now when my kids were sick or teething that was a whole different story. I would rock and comfort them then. Also overtired kids are a recipe for disaster. WE had our kids on a strict schedule. Up at a certain time, meals, naps at same time and bedtime too. Sure it puts a major crimp in you life but all my kids napped for 2-3 hours until they went to school. Also at age 5-7 they went to bed at 7pm. This gave them plenty of sleep and us some adult time. All my friends did the same and none had any issues unless they were medical.  It really does suck to be sleep deprived. 

dilinger

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2016, 12:44:07 PM »
There's nothing wrong with co-sleeping.  We never did a crib, and it worked out just fine.  Ours would get 12-14 hours of sleep per day (that included a 2-4 hour nap in the middle of the day between ages 1-3).

I should point out that we liked co-sleeping, and appreciated not having yet another piece of baby-specific hardware (a crib).  Also, we did elimination communication (he was daytime potty trained by 18mo, to the point where a single diaper would last a couple of days, and fully off diapers even at night by 30mo).  EC is much easier to do when you're there at night to take them potty, in terms of being woken up quickly and getting them to the bathroom.


WE never did co-sleeping because it sets up the expectancy that they will always be with you. They should be in their own crib. I had 3 kids and by 3-5 months all were sleeping through the night. With my oldest we went thru some crying, etc and I never let them cry longer then 30 min.'s and within a week he went to sleep without crying.  Now when my kids were sick or teething that was a whole different story. I would rock and comfort them then. Also overtired kids are a recipe for disaster. WE had our kids on a strict schedule. Up at a certain time, meals, naps at same time and bedtime too. Sure it puts a major crimp in you life but all my kids napped for 2-3 hours until they went to school. Also at age 5-7 they went to bed at 7pm. This gave them plenty of sleep and us some adult time. All my friends did the same and none had any issues unless they were medical.  It really does suck to be sleep deprived. 

mm1970

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2016, 02:09:04 PM »
It's so frustrating... we just moved him into his own room and in a crib. Previously, maybe about 2 weeks ago, he was still in our room and in a cosleeper pen. Either way, he has never been able to fully sleep through the night and normally wakes up 2+ times a night. Everyone who tells me their kid sleeps 5-7+ hours through night without waking up *on average* I shake my fist at. Our kid is pretty happy otherwise but when it comes to being put down for sleep he's the worst. Really don't know what to do or how to comfort him - they say let him cry and go in every 5-15 mins to comfort them. We do that yet he cries even with us there. He won't stop until we take him out of the crib and either rock him or feed him back to sleep... all the things you're not supposed to do. It's a horrible vicious cycle. Basically, he'll pretty much cry for hours upon hours even if you go in there and try to calm him by talking to him and patting him or whatever.


Anyone ever go through anything like this? What did you end up doing? Yesterday we were out at a friend's and he wouldn't take his nap so I had to stroll him around the block and he fell asleep during. There's no way we're going to do that every time he needs to nap or sleep though...

Kid #1: did not sleep 8 hours until he was 8 months old.  Eventually the "sleep training" worked on him, but note that "8 hours" was 8 pm to 4 am.  So I wasn't getting 8 hours.  And every time he got sick, or a new tooth, or went through a growth spurt (I was still nursing), we started over.

Kid #2: Slept 9 hours at 3 months...all the way till 7 months.  Then he started teething.  Up in the middle of the night, at least once, from 7 months until 16 months.  It was pretty brutal.  Resistant to sleep training.

Both kids are good sleepers now, at almost-10 and 3.5.

I don't know what to tell you, except maybe try the book "Healthy sleep habits, happy child".  I honestly don't remember if it helped at all.  Ha!  Sorry.  But it's the truth.

For both kids, they were accustomed to waking up and getting fed.  So at some point, I stopped nursing them at night.  And then ONLY my husband would go to them, and they'd know they were not going to get fed.  So they woke up less frequently.

MrsDinero

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2016, 02:18:25 PM »
We had a good sleeper (age 2 months) until she hit 4 months, then she started waking up 4-6 times a night.  When she hit 5 months we realized we couldn't go on like this. 

We started doing the Ferber method, in which we make sure we follow the same routine every night starting at the same time (7:40pm), bath with lights dimmed, night outfit (with disposable) diaper, and bottle in dimmed room with noise generator.  We put her down in her crib, still swaddled, as she is getting sleepy, turn off the noise generator, turn off all lights and close the door.  If she starts to cry we let her cry for 5 minutes, offer her the pacifier and try to help calm her in her crib, but not picking her up.  If she is still crying (hard) after about 10 minutes we pick her up, help her calm down, put her back in her crib, and repeat the process.

The first few days were TOUGH!  We were alternating who was getting up with her and who was sleeping in the spare room.  Last night she woke up once (around 1am), cried for about 4 minutes then slept for the rest of the night and woke up at 7:40am.  It was the first night she ever slept through without her pacifier.

This seems to be working for us, but every child (and parent) is different.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 02:20:49 PM by MrsDinero »

tobitonic

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2016, 06:41:48 PM »
It's so frustrating... we just moved him into his own room and in a crib. Previously, maybe about 2 weeks ago, he was still in our room and in a cosleeper pen. Either way, he has never been able to fully sleep through the night and normally wakes up 2+ times a night. Everyone who tells me their kid sleeps 5-7+ hours through night without waking up *on average* I shake my fist at. Our kid is pretty happy otherwise but when it comes to being put down for sleep he's the worst. Really don't know what to do or how to comfort him - they say let him cry and go in every 5-15 mins to comfort them. We do that yet he cries even with us there. He won't stop until we take him out of the crib and either rock him or feed him back to sleep... all the things you're not supposed to do. It's a horrible vicious cycle. Basically, he'll pretty much cry for hours upon hours even if you go in there and try to calm him by talking to him and patting him or whatever.


Anyone ever go through anything like this? What did you end up doing? Yesterday we were out at a friend's and he wouldn't take his nap so I had to stroll him around the block and he fell asleep during. There's no way we're going to do that every time he needs to nap or sleep though...

As you've seen, there's lots of disagreement on forums when it comes to baby sleep. However, the research is pretty consistent on the idea that you *can* teach nearly all babies to sleep well.

Our baby is 7mo old, and wakes up about once per night between 7PM (bedtime) and around 6-7AM (his typical wake up time). He also shares a room with a 2yo. With him, we allow him two naps per day max, and no sleeping after 4PM until bedtime. Mom nurses him but puts him in the crib awake. She used to nurse him down but eventually realized that this probably wasn't helping him transition to sleep on his own. He sometimes fusses early in the evening if he wakes up due to big sister talking or screaming in her crib. However, once he's actually asleep, as I said, he won't wake more than once typically a night until his 6-7AM wake up for the day.

If I'd had my choice, we'd have gone straight extinction from 4mo onward, as the research suggests, but my wife won't allow it, so I accept his once-a-night wakings. Whenever he wakes up, I'm always the one who gets and changes him before bringing him to mom, who nurses him before putting him back in his crib. This has basically been our approach since he was born, and he started doing his nights (i.e., sleeping in 5h+ stretches overnight) at about 2 weeks, which was right in line with what we'd read in Bringing Up Bebe (which has a wealth of information about baby sleep practices in France, and how our cultural belief that babies should be waking up 3+ times a night for the first full year of life is madness). Our first started doing hers at around 2 months; we were instinctively doing some of the techniques in the book, but not all of them. In particular, we were a lot quicker to go to her when she fussed, which, of course, taught her that she needed us to go back to sleep. We also spent a lot of hours sitting with her as she cried at night (she was colicky). If I'd been in charge here, we'd have gone for extinction for that too. Mom acknowledges that things got a bit crazy with baby #1, and she's fortunately mellowed out in her willingness to let baby #2 cry a bit without believing he's thinking he's about to be eaten by bears.

gooki

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2016, 06:55:05 PM »
Your kid is normal. Consider co sleeping.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2016, 07:17:15 PM »
I don't remember doing extinction scientifically, but we had to use it on a couple of specific occasions--like for naptime. I didn't feel good about it, but when Big Brother learned to open his door, he wouldn't nap... so we put a lock on the outside of his door and locked him in there. He cried for 45 minutes... then he fell asleep. Next day was 5 minutes, and the day after, he didn't bother crying.

The right sleep method is an intersection of YOUR needs and personalities, and your child's. I felt like my older one just needed to work out some shit by hollering about it sometimes. Our younger one just wanted to sneak in one more bottle, and then he'd be fine.

This will end. I promise. Everything with your first baby seems like it lasts forever.

obstinate

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Re: Our 6mo old stinks at sleeping
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2016, 07:27:59 PM »
My wife usually can't take it so she ends up going in to try to fix it.
If you believe behaviorism and reinforcement learning apply to baby sleep (I do), then this is not what you want to do to stop the behavior. :-/