need an outback, new, used or lease?

[getmoneyeatpizza]

Short version: We are a one car family and we need a new car. We want a newer reliable subaru outback with a back up camera in the next month because we have a second baby due in september. Another big upcoming expense is that this March we'll have that second kid in daycare which is $1100 more a month and money is going to be very tight. (no other debt other than student loan and mortgage and we are maxing out retirement accounts)

I am wondering how to cost flow all this out.

Barring the unforeseen, from march of 2019 to November 2020 (20 months) will be the most expensive time of our life. In the future, if things go as planned,  we'll have more money. In 2020 we'll have $400 extra a month bc our students loans will go away. Daycare cost will also be about $250 a month less by then as well. And in 2021 our first child goes to school and we'll also save $1000 a month(compared to today).

So the question is, what should I do? Should I move this new car expense into the future by leasing or buying new? Buy used and just deal with a car that might break? This is kind of driving me nuts. I thought in a million years I would be thinking about buying a new car but outbacks retain their value so well it almost seem worth it for the warranty and safety features and peace of mind.

I have 16k cash saved but can borrow some more from a taxable brokerage account as needed. (not ideal obviously)

Options for Subaru Outbacks:

2014 - 52k miles $17k

no back up camera and no warranty and no eyesight equipment, could add a back up camera for about $350 with the rear view mirror.

2. 2016 - 40k miles $22k

Eyesight, only power train warranty left, saves 4k over new.

3. 2108 new - $26k 0% apr for 48 months

expensive, but with warranty, safety equipment, back up camera, ability to delay these expenses into the future when more money is freed up

4. lease for $280 a month for 36 months and do something different when we have more money in the future.

5. Your better idea. If you have another car suggestion please read below. The outback is the only wagon or crossover suv that can fit a tall driver with carseat behind and fit 3 adults a two car seats. A minivan would also work but that seems overkill and it annoying for city parking. If they still made an accord wagon or a sonata wagon I would get that in a heartbeat. I think a chevy equinox technically meets the requirements as well but I dont really want one of those.

Stats:

I think we drive 12,000 miles a year. Most of this is big trips to visit family and weekend adventures.

Reasons for outback over something cheaper:

We have a second baby on the way and I'm tall and physically can't sit in front of a second car seat in our old vw golf. I can’t comfortably sit in the passenger seat.

We only have one car and have on street parking that's tight, we barely fit our gold into on street spaces now, hence wanting a back up camera. Our commute is only 3 miles which we often bike but won't be able to with the new baby.

I really want a wagon. We A car like an impala would work but a wagon is really the best for cargo space, roof rails on top. Ability to haul stuff.

I need a setup where we can take 2 adults and the two kids in car seats. And we need to have my wife squeeze in the back if we go somewhere with grandma who flys into visit often. We travel a lot on weekends and take camping gear and bikes so I would get a hitch and a bike rack and a cargo tray. And maybe even a roof rack so I can haul a roof top bag or a canoe.

Most car suck for having 1 adult in back and two car seats but outbacks work. http://thecarseatlady.com/2017familyvehiclebuyingguide/

During this car search I REALLY wish they still made non luxury station wagons. A modern ford focus or accord or camry wagon would be perfect for what I'm looking for. All these cars are about 190 inches with lots of legroom, no crazy clearance, and no AWD. All the modern crossovers are 181 inches which squeezes legroom and ALL their back seats have seat belt overlap.

[CindyBS]

I have kids and a 2009 Outback purchased in 2016. 

While I haven't done car seats with our car (kids already outgrew them), I agree that it is an awesome vehicle for families and a great mini-van alternative.  It does really well in winter weather too.

My suggestion would be to go for an Outback with more miles that is older for at lot less money and add the camera.  If you went somewhere in the 100K miles range, you could own it for 4 years and put on 48K miles and then re-evaluate the situation.   IIRC, by then the kids would just be in booster car seats and it offers more financial cushion for the most expensive 20 months of your life.  Our outback cost $9K.

Older outbacks used the Takata airbags that were recalled.  If you go used, make sure that was replaced.  I assume that information would be on a carfax report.   

[Axioligy]

Mustachianism aside I would recommend steering clear of Subaru until they address their oil consumption issues... or be prepared to check your oil levels with every fill up. https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/06/excessive-oil-consumption/index.htm

[bacchi]

You "need" an Outback?

A large part of MMM is being able to distinguish needs vs wants.

[getmoneyeatpizza]

Wow, feeling misunderstood here:

1. Yes, the title says "need" my bad. In the post, I didn't say I needed an outback. I said I needed a new (to us) car
2. Mazda 5 won't work, the 2nd floor legroom won't allow a tall person to sit with a car seat behind them. 3rd row is problematic too.

 A mini van will work yes. But we live, drive in the city and park on a very crowded street and it already sucks. I don't want a big van. A good, reliable one used one with a back up camera that is better cost wise and not too bad mpg wise is already about the same as an outback.

It would be great if they still made smaller minivans like the mazda mpv or the plain dodge caravan.

Only 2 row suv that would work is a chevy equinox, I think. Most 2 row SUVs have seat belt overlap issues.

3. I would love to steer clear of subaru bc oil burn concerns. however, honda and Toyota do not make a station wagon. they are all luxury and VW (which is not reliable and the legroom is not very good for car seats)

[slappy]

Have you considered/tried a different car seat? Dionos are made specifically for small vehicles. How old is your current child?

[red_pill]

Leasing is a great way to get a new car but defer having to buy the whole thing. It offers cost certainty and if the car is a lemon you can dump it at the end of the lease.  At least that’s what I told myself when I leased a car and now i wish I hadn’t. 

But I see a whole lot of underlying assumptions and suppositions in your post that maybe you’ve totally thought through or maybe you didn’t and should re-examine them to see if you arrive at the same conclusion.

1) Do you actually need a new (even just new to you) car?  What is it about your car that isn’t sufficing anymore?  Can you make due with what you have until March 2020? If you HAD to make due, how would you do it?

2) why do you need the ability to have three adults and two child seats?  How often does that need arrise  for you?  How long will the rear facing child seat cause a fit concern? Are you letting a very occasional or limited duration situation  dictate a permanent purchase that you will have to live with for the next 8 or more years?

3) why do you have it in your mind that you “need” a rear view camera? Or Subaru eyesight?  If you actually needed these things how have you been driving all these years ?  How much are you letting these nice-to-haves sway your decision making? What options open up to you if you take them off the table?

4) are you sure that the outback is the only car that will fit you? Surely there are others.  Or have you already convinced yourself that the reliability, performance and low depreciation makes the outback the right car for you?

I find I fall into the same trap of convincing myself of a conclusion and then rationalizing myself there instead of really examining the assumptions that I’m making in my thinking.

[noplaceliketheroad]

2017 outback owner here...

Eyesight is amazing. Lane correction, lane departure warning, auto collision warning/braking, adaptive cruise control...I don't even have the words for how amazing it is. The peace of mind is priceless when DH is working long (14+ hours) days and having to drive home after that. We also have to park in tight spaces on the street often, and the backup camera is cool to have. We bought new, with 0% APR for the life of the loan. One of his jobs has already reimbursed us for over the amount that we have paid in payments in the last year. So our situation is a little different and justifying buying new was a little easier since we'll eventually get back the entire cost of the car through various jobs... but I know this is a community that rarely condones buying new. Guess it depends on how much you make and if buying new is a drop in the bucket or a large expense.

If your daily commute is only 3 miles though, is it worth dealing with the tight interior space for that short amount of time in the car? And maybe just renting a car for your long family trips and weekend getaways?

[Broadway2019]

2017 outback owner here...

Eyesight is amazing. Lane correction, lane departure warning, auto collision warning/braking, adaptive cruise control...I don't even have the words for how amazing it is. The peace of mind is priceless when DH is working long (14+ hours) days and having to drive home after that. We also have to park in tight spaces on the street often, and the backup camera is cool to have. We bought new, with 0% APR for the life of the loan. One of his jobs has already reimbursed us for over the amount that we have paid in payments in the last year. So our situation is a little different and justifying buying new was a little easier since we'll eventually get back the entire cost of the car through various jobs... but I know this is a community that rarely condones buying new. Guess it depends on how much you make and if buying new is a drop in the bucket or a large expense.

If your daily commute is only 3 miles though, is it worth dealing with the tight interior space for that short amount of time in the car? And maybe just renting a car for your long family trips and weekend getaways?

I have owned 2 outbacks and am actually leasing my current 2017 one with eyesight. It really is amazing and the technology makes me feel so much safer. Also, my insurance is cheaper. I actually leased one because the payment is low and pretty soon this technology will be standard. The technology is always changing and I want the latest safety features. I look at this way. If I have the means to have safer technology in my car at a reasonable cost, why the heck not?

You can argue against navigation, awd, and other features, but the eyesight one is really hard to argue with. I absolutely love it and will only buy cars w/ pre-collision and such. Also, the Toyota safety sense is a joke, not nearly as advanced as Subaru Eyesight.

[getmoneyeatpizza]

re: car seats yes, i have looked up every car seat on the market for the shortest. Diono is good for a narrow width but still takes up a lot of front to back space. we have a keyfit infant seat which is one of the smallest on the market. i pretty much have the drivers seat all the way back in every car i drive.

re: leasing - yeah, this is what i'm wondering. If i'm so boxed in now, is it such a bad idea to lease to get me through this expensive time and then get something different in a few years. if its still a bad idea, is it a better idea than buying new?

1) if we keep our current i can't drive it bc there will be an infant car seat behind the driver and i'm tall with long legs and would be scrunched up. I can't sit comfortably in the passenger seat now with a car seat behind me. if we had to make due we would flip our son 2.5 yrs old now in his seat. This isn't recommended for safety reasons until he reaches the height limit on his seat.

2) my wife at least needs to be able to sqeeze in the back for long road trips. additionally, my wifes family flies in for weeks at a time so we won't all be able to drive anywhere all together during these trips. Probably 6 weeks out of the year on average. Ability to put a booster seat in the center helps up for the next 8 years i think.

3) we don't need a rear view. that's a nice to have for sure. it is just hard to park our short vehicle on the street as it is. The newer car probably be at least 20 inches longer. we dont need eyesight either, i just like the idea of automatic emergency braking for safety, especially with the entire family in the car.

4) Others will fit. A minivan and a chevy equinox would also work. Sedans will work but are much less ideal and will limit what we do. I like to haul skis, bikes and canoes and lots of camping gear. I filled our current car to the brim for trips with pack and plays and coolers, beach stuff etc. now we'll have stuff for two kids plus one more seat space taken away.

Also, all the 3 row suvs would work but i don't want one of those and they're probably more expensive than the outback.

[getmoneyeatpizza]

we go on trips at least every other weekend in the summer. cabins, camping, beach stuff, friends houses etc. we'll be doing less with a new baby but still

[Cadman]

Just be aware that Subarus are known for eating head gaskets, so if you're considering a higher mileage one, make sure that work has already been done. I tend to steer clear of vehicles that have timing belts (required maintenance or risk engine damage); that might also be something to investigate if you find the right Outback.

[red_pill]

re: car seats yes, i have looked up every car seat on the market for the shortest. Diono is good for a narrow width but still takes up a lot of front to back space. we have a keyfit infant seat which is one of the smallest on the market. i pretty much have the drivers seat all the way back in every car i drive.

re: leasing - yeah, this is what i'm wondering. If i'm so boxed in now, is it such a bad idea to lease to get me through this expensive time and then get something different in a few years. if its still a bad idea, is it a better idea than buying new?

1) if we keep our current i can't drive it bc there will be an infant car seat behind the driver and i'm tall with long legs and would be scrunched up. I can't sit comfortably in the passenger seat now with a car seat behind me. if we had to make due we would flip our son 2.5 yrs old now in his seat. This isn't recommended for safety reasons until he reaches the height limit on his seat.

2) my wife at least needs to be able to sqeeze in the back for long road trips. additionally, my wifes family flies in for weeks at a time so we won't all be able to drive anywhere all together during these trips. Probably 6 weeks out of the year on average. Ability to put a booster seat in the center helps up for the next 8 years i think.

3) we don't need a rear view. that's a nice to have for sure. it is just hard to park our short vehicle on the street as it is. The newer car probably be at least 20 inches longer. we dont need eyesight either, i just like the idea of automatic emergency braking for safety, especially with the entire family in the car.

4) Others will fit. A minivan and a chevy equinox would also work. Sedans will work but are much less ideal and will limit what we do. I like to haul skis, bikes and canoes and lots of camping gear. I filled our current car to the brim for trips with pack and plays and coolers, beach stuff etc. now we'll have stuff for two kids plus one more seat space taken away.

Also, all the 3 row suvs would work but i don't want one of those and they're probably more expensive than the outback.

Now you got me wanting to go lease a new Outback... lol  we will be replacing our SUV in March-ish and have the same needs - never thought of going with a station wagon instead of an SUV.

At least with a lease you know exactly what it will cost you - and you are deferring the full purchase.  If at the end of the lease period you want to buy it - awesome, you know the history of the vehicle and exactly what you’re getting. But say you get into an accident and the value of the vehicle is less than the buy out price - then you don’t have to buy it.  It is a nice “dont have to think about anything” for a few years.

The downside is if you have to buy new winter tires (though on the plus side if you have two sets of tires then by the time you return the lease the summer tires on it will still be in good shape and you won’t h e to pay for them.).  With kids you might want to get the extra usage coverage for any damage, but that only helps you if you are returning the lease - if you’re keeping it then it’s not a benefit.

The other thing is if you lease a car now and in a few years autonomous vehicles are all the rage or electric vehicles continue to improve at a exponential rate  it might be hard to sell an non autonomous ICE. So a lease protects you from that as well.

Now if you’ll excuse me I’m going to the Subaru website....

[slappy]

Re:dionos-Diono makes a reclining wedge to give several extra inches of space front to back.

[IndyPendent]

There’s a high correlation between posts with a long list of needs and “buying fever”.

If you’ve got buying fever, the advice you get that doesn’t tickle your ear and tell you to buy it will likely go ignored and you’ll just do what you want.

That being said, when my wife and I had baby #2 a couple years ago we sold our Scion and paid 14k cash for a 2012 Outback 2.5i premium with 79k miles. I looked around a lot at minivans, Mazda 5, and other in between vehicles and the Outback had the best gas mileage of them all and decent room for a family of four.

It has a backup camera, and frankly it’s just ok. It’s easier for me to turn around and look out the rear window for most things. It’s useful when parallel parking.

Best of luck! I hope you make a cool-headed purchase that doesn’t come with a twinge-of-regret co-pilot.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MayDay]

In thso scenario I'd turn the 2.5 year old around.

[slappy]

In thso scenario I'd turn the 2.5 year old around.

Me too, although I prefer to keep my kids RF to age 3 at least. I would say this is an extenuating circumstance. Also I’m unclear if the child is 2.5 now or will be 2.5 in March when the new baby comes.

[Car Jack]

Just be aware that Subarus are known for eating head gaskets, so if you're considering a higher mileage one, make sure that work has already been done. I tend to steer clear of vehicles that have timing belts (required maintenance or risk engine damage); that might also be something to investigate if you find the right Outback.

In 2013, the outback switched to the FB25 engine.  These are completely new and do not have the head gasket issues of EJ engines.  They also use a timing chain.

To the OP: With city parking, you might want to look into shorter vehicles.  A forester is 9 inches shorter in length and 2 inches narrower.

http://www.stanleysubaru.com/outback-vs-forester.htm

A crosstrek is much smaller so I don't think a tall rear seat passenger would be happy on a long trip.  Although it would be far easier to park.

We traded our 04 Outback for a 17 Legacy limited and are extremely happy with it.  It has the same FB25 as the outback and forester.  We average over 28 mpg.  We also have a 13 Crosstrek with the FB20 engine and it gets no better mileage than the new Legacy.  Both are CVT cars.

If you buy a Subaru near end of bumper to bumper warranty, you can buy a factory extended warranty.  I'd recommend checking with Mastria Subaru in Mass.  They're pretty well known for selling these for less than anyone else.  Any Subaru dealer can sell these.  Never buy an aftermarket warranty.  Of the 10 top aftermarket warranty companies from 10 years ago, none now exist.

[robartsd]

In thso scenario I'd turn the 2.5 year old around.

Me too, although I prefer to keep my kids RF to age 3 at least. I would say this is an extenuating circumstance. Also I’m unclear if the child is 2.5 now or will be 2.5 in March when the new baby comes.

New baby comes in September - starts going to childcare in March. I'm guessing that either Mom and/or Dad will be taking parental leave to care for infant over first 6 months. Will toddler stay home for 6 months too? If both kiddos stay home with parent, how many times will Dad be driving both kiddos between now and when they'd flip toddler to forward facing anyway?

I can understand the difficulty of finding the optimum vehicle for squeezing adequate seating legroom into tight parking spaces. I'd also be looking for ways to reduce the seating legroom requirement rather than finding the perfect vehicle. I'd probably look into the Diono wedge @slappy mentioned.

[mm1970]

I can understand the need to optimize - can you consider a sedan with a box or rack on top?  Might be cheaper.

Our cars are small with not a lot of leg room (Matrix hatchback and Civic).  We've managed with RF carseats but it wasn't easy, even with Dionos. 

I think the Subaru probably hits all of the points on just big enough to get the leg room you need for 2 RF carseats and short enough to find parking.  In my experience, there really aren't a lot of options in that size.

Note: when grandma came, I could squeeze in the middle of the back between 2 carseats in the Matrix.  It was a tight fit though.

[jjcamembert]

I just purchased a new Subaru Forester to replace a Subaru Crosstrek that was totaled. I'm in a similar situation regarding limited cash flow but an expected increase within the next year. I enjoyed the Crosstrek for city driving but the engine was challenged driving in the mountains.

I took the 0% financing because I have the money to pay for the car outright, but I don't want to blow my savings on a car (hence the cash flow dilemma). I have some money from the total loss to make the payments this year, and opened a 1 yr CD with the rest of the money. The CD isn't a huge payout but hey I'll get an extra $500 next year instead of paying someone else interest to finance me a vehicle. Multiply out over 4 years and I've "saved" the money that I would have paid on interest for a used car that was slightly less. Plus the warranty on a new car vs none on the used. Of course I'm taking the depreciation hit, but Subarus hold their value well especially in my area; another reason not to lease one.

Basically that was why I didn't lease even though the lease does optimize cash flow. I still feel guilty driving around a new car (thanks Mustachians) but that was the vehicle that met my requirements and the best way for me to manage the money in that situation.

Just FYI pretty much every car comes with a rear camera these days, or you can rig one up. I would say I'm in the "don't sell me extra technology" camp regarding things like EyeSight. It adds about 20% to the vehicle cost and I prefer to just pay attention while driving to stay in the lane and not hit people in front of me. Subarus already come with great technology to deal with things that you might have less control over like sliding on ice, hydroplaning, stopping, etc.

[getmoneyeatpizza]

my wife is pretty much making us get a new(er) car and i can't blame her. Its not reliable, leaks when it rains, high mileage, needs repairs we're putting off, and we need more space. If it checked every other box and all we had to do was flip our toddler, who is 2.5 now, then we would.

A sedan with a roof top would work it just kind of sucks vs. a wagon and would need both a roof rack and a hitch mounted cargo tray.

re: the Forrester suggestion for on street parking, the Forrester doesn't work with legroom.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

It looks like a Ford Fusion has as much legroom as an Outback. FusionHybrids are very reliable and efficient, and they’re incredibly common.

You say you are about to enter a time when money is tight and you are planning on buying a brand-new car. WTF?