Author Topic: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix  (Read 3905 times)

Camille16623

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North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« on: November 03, 2016, 10:58:53 AM »
I am concerned that some of my investments and credit cards are supporting the North Dakota Pipeline.  Are there ways to stop supporting the banks and stocks of companies involved in funding this venture?

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2016, 11:54:43 AM »
I recently found this: https://fossilfreefunds.org/
Not sure if you can get each minute detail, but it will give you a decent idea as to which funds are pushing fossil fuels.

Camille16623

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2016, 03:57:37 PM »
Thank you. This is a good start!

attackgnome

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2016, 04:14:19 PM »
I am concerned that some of my investments and credit cards are supporting the North Dakota Pipeline.  Are there ways to stop supporting the banks and stocks of companies involved in funding this venture?

Sure, then load up on BNSF because its all going to get shipped by rail barring a pipeline. Then you end up with stuff like this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_rail_disaster

There are over 20,000 active producing wells in the Williston Basin. The spice must flow.

Bones81

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2016, 11:00:42 PM »
I am concerned that some of my investments and credit cards are supporting the North Dakota Pipeline.  Are there ways to stop supporting the banks and stocks of companies involved in funding this venture?

Pretty much every major bank in North America and a few of the bigger regional ones all lend to ETP and PSX, so you're going to be hard pressed to bank with someone that doesn't lend to them outside local/regional banks. 


arebelspy

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2016, 11:13:46 PM »
I am concerned that some of my investments and credit cards are supporting the North Dakota Pipeline.  Are there ways to stop supporting the banks and stocks of companies involved in funding this venture?

Have you looked into other, more direct and effective methods of change for things you find important (monetary donations, direct involvement, contacting people, not dealing with the companies, etc.) rather than worry about the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent that your investment may provide them?
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Metric Mouse

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2016, 01:41:12 AM »
I am concerned that some of my investments and credit cards are supporting the North Dakota Pipeline.  Are there ways to stop supporting the banks and stocks of companies involved in funding this venture?

Pretty much every major bank in North America and a few of the bigger regional ones all lend to ETP and PSX, so you're going to be hard pressed to bank with someone that doesn't lend to them outside local/regional banks.

Probably better to go local and regional, anyway. Might be just the push to make the change!

Camille16623

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2016, 06:50:11 AM »
Charles Schwab assures me they do not invest in the pipeline.  Credit Unions would also work, it seems.

I don't agree that I am too small to matter to the financial institutions. They would notice if enough people pulled out of their bank. I see online people say their mortgage is involved and they have no choice.  So it's complicated.  But most things are. I think socially responsible investing is important.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

arebelspy

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2016, 07:32:15 AM »
I don't agree that I am too small to matter to the financial institutions. They would notice if enough people pulled out of their bank.

I didn't say they wouldn't notice if enough people pulled out.  My question is, would they notice if one pulled out?

If not, there are other things you can do to have a much bigger impact than socially responsible investing on causes that are important to you.

Maybe you do those other things already.  But I find that it can be the case with some people that they don't invest with a company (or at all) and maybe don't shop there, and that's it, and they feel all warm and fuzzy, when really there's many more things they could do, and the not investing is a cop out excuse to not have to do the harder things.

Not saying that's the case, just encouraging you to think about what you can do that will make a real impact, because, like I said, a single person not investing is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent that your investment may provide them (and probably not even that, if they aren't IPO'ing, you're just buying a share from another investor, not from the company itself, so the company sees nothing if you buy one of their shares, it just might give them a bit more borrowing power).
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
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Camille16623

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2016, 12:37:20 PM »
I see your point. But the people putting in the pipeline need the money.  There are several lists on the internet right now high lighting the banks that back the pipelines. I don't think I am the only one questioning where their money goes. I am, as you pointed out, too small to matter. But more awareness will make people who care move their money.  I'm 78.  Going to Standing Rock with all the many others would not impact the situation.  Supporting them with donations... yes that is good.  But pulling the financial rug out from under them would make an amazing difference.  Of course, banks have it covered with mortgages etc.  But I don't agree with just dismissing taking a financial stand.

use2betrix

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2016, 03:07:06 PM »
I see your point. But the people putting in the pipeline need the money.  There are several lists on the internet right now high lighting the banks that back the pipelines. I don't think I am the only one questioning where their money goes. I am, as you pointed out, too small to matter. But more awareness will make people who care move their money.  I'm 78.  Going to Standing Rock with all the many others would not impact the situation.  Supporting them with donations... yes that is good.  But pulling the financial rug out from under them would make an amazing difference.  Of course, banks have it covered with mortgages etc.  But I don't agree with just dismissing taking a financial stand.

You underestimate how much $ these companies have and would have to be pulled to effect them.

Not to mention, the pipeline will be a huge income generator for them. They will find people to finance it because of their ROI, no matter what.

Warren Buffet is a HUGE investor of PSX.

arebelspy

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2016, 04:44:50 PM »
Quote
But I don't agree with just dismissing taking a financial stand.

Again, I'm not dismissing taking an individual financial stand.  I'm questioning the effectiveness of one person's financial stand versus what they could do if they tried to make an impact in other ways.

For example, you mention this:
Quote
But more awareness will make people who care move their money

Certainly!  More awareness to get people to move their money, for example, could have a much bigger impact than just removing your money,  Imagine if you told two people, and they moved their money.  That's double the impact of just moving yours (assuming roughly equal amounts of money).  Imagine if you convinced 100 people.  A 100-fold impact over merely moving your money.

Now, we can debate if moving money from the banks would even do much, as use2betrix does above, but my point is that even if we grant that it does, it won't by one person, only in large numbers/in the aggregate. 

Now, if you're trying to convince people to do this, you may need to move your own money as part of it, to not appear hypocritical, but if that's all you do (move your own money), without doing anything else, you've done almost nothing (except make yourself feel good... but no real impact).

But the people putting in the pipeline need the money.  There are several lists on the internet right now high lighting the banks that back the pipelines. I don't think I am the only one questioning where their money goes.

Right.  The question is: how do we most effectively impact this thing we are against?

Pulling a small amount of money (and by small, I mean, a tiny tiny percent of that entity's worth) from an institution dealing with them as your main (or sole) way to effect change is quite ineffective, overall.

As you and I agree:
Quote
I am, as you pointed out, too small to matter.

So what IS the thing an individual can do to have a magnified impact?

Anyways, certainly pull your money.  It can't hurt, at the least, unless it stops you from taking other action.  The perfect is the enemy of the good, and pulling money, from your POV, certainly at least seems good, so start there. 

I wasn't trying to encourage you to not do this, but to think about other things you could do that would hopefully be more effective.  (And, to be honest, I wasn't even hoping to just target you, but the dozens or hundreds of other people that may read this and be thinking about how they might effect social change on a cause they care about.  A slightly more magnified impact, if you will, than PMing you directly, though still tiny, obviously.)

Your financial stand is a good start, and I hope you continue with a next step, if this is an important issue to you.  Regardless, thank you for taking some action, it's better than seeing a situation, shaking your head at its terribleness, and moving on.  :)
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Camille16623

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2016, 05:27:57 PM »
Nice response. Lots to think about.

Thanks.

Camille16623

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2016, 05:40:49 PM »
I'm moving from California to Broomfield, Co.  My son works in Longmont.  I'll look for you in the grocery store.
Take care.  Love your website.

arebelspy

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Re: North Dakota Pipeline, Standing Rock Souix
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2016, 05:46:19 PM »
I'm moving from California to Broomfield, Co.  My son works in Longmont.  I'll look for you in the grocery store.
Take care.  Love your website.

To clarify, I'm not Pete/MMM, who runs the blog.. I just post a lot on the forums.  :)

Enjoy CO, it seems like an awesome place to live!
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.