non-competes

[Case]

Hello All,
I was contacted by a head hunter, who is being used by a competitor company.  I don't know whether or not I signed a non-compete.

I started working originally for company A, which was taken over by company B.  While at company B, I think I signed paper work that was similar to a non-compete, but that was 5+ years ago so I can't remember details.  Company B merged with Company C, and then there was a divestiture leaving me in company C.  I have never signed anything with Company C, but I don't know if whatever I signed with Company B was transferred over, or if that is allowed.

Any recommendations on what to do? 
I could contact HR and ask them if they can tell me if I have signed a non-compete and if so to send me the documents.
Does HR tend to flag people who do this an report it to management?

Thanks!
Case

[dividendman]

My absolutely not legal advise is that non-competes are bullshit and unenforceable in the vast majority of cases unless you are some high ranking company officer.

Some states, like California, they are unenforceable by law.

Companies aren't going to risk the bad press or spend the money on lawyers to get some unknown damages from you.

I've jumped to direct competitors multiple times after signing non-competes and nothing happened.

Whatever you do, do NOT contact HR, as they are not there to help you.

If you want the job at the competitor company just go for it.

[scottish]

Yep, the job of HR is to protect the company from the employees.   If you talk to them then everyone will know you're getting ready to leave.   The effects of this are hard to predict.    You might get a pre-emptive raise (seen this), or you might get whacked immediately (also seen this).

I've heard of non-compete agreements being a problem for certain jobs.   For example, if you were to leave for a competitor and take your existing client base you might have a problem.

[Metalcat]

You don't have a copy of your employment contract?

Can you not just ask for a copy of your employment contract? For sure it might raise someone's eyebrow and they might suspect that you are being headhunted, but that's something that your employer should expect to happen as a normal course of business.

But as someone said above, most non-compete clauses are unenforceable in terms of just working for the competition. If there are no clients or staff or intellectual property that could be taken with you, then it's pretty unlikely that a restrictive clause would hold up or that the company would waste their resources taking you to court over just getting a new job.

If you opened a competing business across the street? That's a whole other matter, and usually they can reasonable demand that you give them a few miles of radius. That's really about it.

[Blue82]

You don't have a copy of your employment contract?

Can you not just ask for a copy of your employment contract? For sure it might raise someone's eyebrow and they might suspect that you are being headhunted, but that's something that your employer should expect to happen as a normal course of business.

But as someone said above, most non-compete clauses are unenforceable in terms of just working for the competition. If there are no clients or staff or intellectual property that could be taken with you, then it's pretty unlikely that a restrictive clause would hold up or that the company would waste their resources taking you to court over just getting a new job.

If you opened a competing business across the street? That's a whole other matter, and usually they can reasonable demand that you give them a few miles of radius. That's really about it.

Mostly this, except the details vary a lot from state to state.  Decent chance that if any non-compete was well worded that it passed through with your employment to affiliates, successor companies, subsidiaries and the like.  Whether or not it’s worth it for the company to enforce would depend a lot on your role, where the competitor work is located compared to your current work, and politics (eg are you leaving the company in a huge bind by leaving at a critical point, or did you offer to work out notice and be cooperative if they desired it). 

Also, you might not have an employment contract.  For my company, there are no employment contracts.  Your offer letter would contain stuff like starting title, pay, etc, but confidentiality, non-solicitation, and non-compete agreements are all in a separate document that if you asked for a copy of your offer letter, you certainly wouldn’t get sent automatically. 

Disclaimer - Not a lawyer but have dealt with this from the HR of departing company side a few times.

[reeshau]

If you are worried about tipping off HR, just ask your rep to see your employment file.  Anything they have should be in there.

This doesn't tell you if a non-compete is actually still valid, but if they have none, then they have lost the history, and there you go.

Agree with many comments above that non-competes for worker bees are not generally enforced or enforceable.  Many people at my past Megacorp were walked out the same day when they handed in their resignation for a competitor.  None, that I know of, were told they could not do it, or threatened with some action for doing it.

[MayDay]

What would your "employment file" even be?

No one has a paper file of documents about you.

I had an employee ask me for that and my response (and HR 's) was basically "wtf do you actually want?".

[reeshau]

What would your "employment file" even be?

No one has a paper file of documents about you.

I had an employee ask me for that and my response (and HR 's) was basically "wtf do you actually want?".

Yes, these days it's likely to be your profile on SAP or Workday.  My company has quite some history, so they use older terms--yes, dating back to paper files.

Also, most state laws use similar terminology, because they also date that far back.  Good to invoke the corresponding wording, if you are trying to exercise a right.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter5-2.html

[Case]

Hello All,
I was contacted by a head hunter, who is being used by a competitor company.  I don't know whether or not I signed a non-compete.

I started working originally for company A, which was taken over by company B.  While at company B, I think I signed paper work that was similar to a non-compete, but that was 5+ years ago so I can't remember details.  Company B merged with Company C, and then there was a divestiture leaving me in company C.  I have never signed anything with Company C, but I don't know if whatever I signed with Company B was transferred over, or if that is allowed.

Any recommendations on what to do? 
I could contact HR and ask them if they can tell me if I have signed a non-compete and if so to send me the documents.
Does HR tend to flag people who do this an report it to management?

Thanks!
Case

thanks all for the advice.  i am taking the recommendations and not going to ask hr for documentation and am not going to mention a non compete at all!

[GuitarStv]

If you were in Canada I'd tell you to just take the other job and ignore anything you've signed.  Non-competes have been ruled pretty much unenforceable here.

[yachi]

Even in cases of noncompete being enforceable, your new company has the option of paying off your old company to "let" you go.  I've heard of that happening at positions that are a high enough level to make the news.

[Case]

Hello All,
I was contacted by a head hunter, who is being used by a competitor company.  I don't know whether or not I signed a non-compete.

I started working originally for company A, which was taken over by company B.  While at company B, I think I signed paper work that was similar to a non-compete, but that was 5+ years ago so I can't remember details.  Company B merged with Company C, and then there was a divestiture leaving me in company C.  I have never signed anything with Company C, but I don't know if whatever I signed with Company B was transferred over, or if that is allowed.

Any recommendations on what to do? 
I could contact HR and ask them if they can tell me if I have signed a non-compete and if so to send me the documents.
Does HR tend to flag people who do this an report it to management?

Thanks!
Case

Update:

I ended up doing an initial interview with this company, with my potential manager/director there.  I am sort of luke-warm on the position; this guys seemed like a knowledgeable person, and did a very good job of explaining the role to me.  But he also gave me very little opportunity to speak myself, which I thought was bizarre since he was interviewing.  It's unclear to me whether I'm actually a good candidate or not, because this guy had a very specific view of what he was looking for.  Ideally he's looking for a classically trained engineer in this particular work area, whereas I am a chemist in the right work area, and I wear multiple hats, one of which is engineering.  As such, I have learned some tools of the trade that this guy is looking, but on the other hand, he has preference for a 'mini-me' that has the exact level of engineering expertise that he has.  He is willing to train people, but also, I'm not sure they'll be willing to give me the target compensation that I'd require, given that I may not be 'perfect enough'.

Anyways!  This interview was also very specific about wanting to see a non-compete if I had signed one.  Since I can't find the document at present, he suggested I contact my HR and ask for a copy of my employment documents.

Is there a way to ask HR for this that doesn't completely raise the alarms at my current work place? 

[Sibley]

Hello All,
I was contacted by a head hunter, who is being used by a competitor company.  I don't know whether or not I signed a non-compete.

I started working originally for company A, which was taken over by company B.  While at company B, I think I signed paper work that was similar to a non-compete, but that was 5+ years ago so I can't remember details.  Company B merged with Company C, and then there was a divestiture leaving me in company C.  I have never signed anything with Company C, but I don't know if whatever I signed with Company B was transferred over, or if that is allowed.

Any recommendations on what to do? 
I could contact HR and ask them if they can tell me if I have signed a non-compete and if so to send me the documents.
Does HR tend to flag people who do this an report it to management?

Thanks!
Case

Update:

I ended up doing an initial interview with this company, with my potential manager/director there.  I am sort of luke-warm on the position; this guys seemed like a knowledgeable person, and did a very good job of explaining the role to me.  But he also gave me very little opportunity to speak myself, which I thought was bizarre since he was interviewing.  It's unclear to me whether I'm actually a good candidate or not, because this guy had a very specific view of what he was looking for.  Ideally he's looking for a classically trained engineer in this particular work area, whereas I am a chemist in the right work area, and I wear multiple hats, one of which is engineering.  As such, I have learned some tools of the trade that this guy is looking, but on the other hand, he has preference for a 'mini-me' that has the exact level of engineering expertise that he has.  He is willing to train people, but also, I'm not sure they'll be willing to give me the target compensation that I'd require, given that I may not be 'perfect enough'.

Anyways!  This interview was also very specific about wanting to see a non-compete if I had signed one.  Since I can't find the document at present, he suggested I contact my HR and ask for a copy of my employment documents.

Is there a way to ask HR for this that doesn't completely raise the alarms at my current work place?

Honestly, I would just say never mind on that job opportunity. All sorts of yellow flags that could easily escalate to red, and you're not all that excited anyway. If you want to change jobs then go ahead and apply other places.

The risks to you regarding approaching HR are much higher than the risk to him. The fact that he's not aware of this, or is aware and doesn't care, means I don't want to work for him. If he doesn't care enough not to jeopardize your current job without a written job offer in hand, that's not someone you can trust.

[Gremlin]

Hello All,
I was contacted by a head hunter, who is being used by a competitor company.  I don't know whether or not I signed a non-compete.

I started working originally for company A, which was taken over by company B.  While at company B, I think I signed paper work that was similar to a non-compete, but that was 5+ years ago so I can't remember details.  Company B merged with Company C, and then there was a divestiture leaving me in company C.  I have never signed anything with Company C, but I don't know if whatever I signed with Company B was transferred over, or if that is allowed.

Any recommendations on what to do? 
I could contact HR and ask them if they can tell me if I have signed a non-compete and if so to send me the documents.
Does HR tend to flag people who do this an report it to management?

Thanks!
Case

Update:

I ended up doing an initial interview with this company, with my potential manager/director there.  I am sort of luke-warm on the position; this guys seemed like a knowledgeable person, and did a very good job of explaining the role to me.  But he also gave me very little opportunity to speak myself, which I thought was bizarre since he was interviewing.  It's unclear to me whether I'm actually a good candidate or not, because this guy had a very specific view of what he was looking for.  Ideally he's looking for a classically trained engineer in this particular work area, whereas I am a chemist in the right work area, and I wear multiple hats, one of which is engineering.  As such, I have learned some tools of the trade that this guy is looking, but on the other hand, he has preference for a 'mini-me' that has the exact level of engineering expertise that he has.  He is willing to train people, but also, I'm not sure they'll be willing to give me the target compensation that I'd require, given that I may not be 'perfect enough'.

Anyways!  This interview was also very specific about wanting to see a non-compete if I had signed one.  Since I can't find the document at present, he suggested I contact my HR and ask for a copy of my employment documents.

Is there a way to ask HR for this that doesn't completely raise the alarms at my current work place?

Honestly, I would just say never mind on that job opportunity. All sorts of yellow flags that could easily escalate to red, and you're not all that excited anyway. If you want to change jobs then go ahead and apply other places.

The risks to you regarding approaching HR are much higher than the risk to him. The fact that he's not aware of this, or is aware and doesn't care, means I don't want to work for him. If he doesn't care enough not to jeopardize your current job without a written job offer in hand, that's not someone you can trust.

Sibley's 100% on the money with this. 

[Case]

Hello All,
I was contacted by a head hunter, who is being used by a competitor company.  I don't know whether or not I signed a non-compete.

I started working originally for company A, which was taken over by company B.  While at company B, I think I signed paper work that was similar to a non-compete, but that was 5+ years ago so I can't remember details.  Company B merged with Company C, and then there was a divestiture leaving me in company C.  I have never signed anything with Company C, but I don't know if whatever I signed with Company B was transferred over, or if that is allowed.

Any recommendations on what to do? 
I could contact HR and ask them if they can tell me if I have signed a non-compete and if so to send me the documents.
Does HR tend to flag people who do this an report it to management?

Thanks!
Case

Update:

I ended up doing an initial interview with this company, with my potential manager/director there.  I am sort of luke-warm on the position; this guys seemed like a knowledgeable person, and did a very good job of explaining the role to me.  But he also gave me very little opportunity to speak myself, which I thought was bizarre since he was interviewing.  It's unclear to me whether I'm actually a good candidate or not, because this guy had a very specific view of what he was looking for.  Ideally he's looking for a classically trained engineer in this particular work area, whereas I am a chemist in the right work area, and I wear multiple hats, one of which is engineering.  As such, I have learned some tools of the trade that this guy is looking, but on the other hand, he has preference for a 'mini-me' that has the exact level of engineering expertise that he has.  He is willing to train people, but also, I'm not sure they'll be willing to give me the target compensation that I'd require, given that I may not be 'perfect enough'.

Anyways!  This interview was also very specific about wanting to see a non-compete if I had signed one.  Since I can't find the document at present, he suggested I contact my HR and ask for a copy of my employment documents.

Is there a way to ask HR for this that doesn't completely raise the alarms at my current work place?

Honestly, I would just say never mind on that job opportunity. All sorts of yellow flags that could easily escalate to red, and you're not all that excited anyway. If you want to change jobs then go ahead and apply other places.

The risks to you regarding approaching HR are much higher than the risk to him. The fact that he's not aware of this, or is aware and doesn't care, means I don't want to work for him. If he doesn't care enough not to jeopardize your current job without a written job offer in hand, that's not someone you can trust.

Thanks for the advice, I will likely go this route. 

The interviewer is aware of the scrutiny that a request to see a non compete will bring, but has suggested I could genetically just ask to see my employment documents.  It would be nice for me to see this, since Im starting to get headhunted a lot due to working in an area that is getting a lot focus right now.  For the same reason, Im sure my employer would like me not to work for a competitor in this exact area.  Actually I was pinged by another company this week, this time in a work area much closer to what i do with current company.

Anyways, I agree on the yellow flags. 

[Sibley]

I worked for a short time at a bank, and they definitely have noncompetes. This seemed to translate into when people left, they didn't say where they were going. When I left, I wasn't going to a bank so didn't have a problem saying where I was going.