Author Topic: noisy children ruining our side-income!  (Read 14507 times)

LadyStache in Baja

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noisy children ruining our side-income!
« on: February 10, 2016, 05:33:00 AM »
So we run a lovely little airbnb, on the second floor of our house.  We have four kids 4 and under, all energetic, loud boys.  We've had 14 guests in our first year and 2 left a review saying how the noise was a problem.  One actually left a day early.  :(  Then yesterday we had a local potential renter come check it out and after saying it was beautiful, he declined saying "Its not his cup of tea".  I can only assume he meant the kids, especially since they were being extra crazy at the time. 

I really love the rental income.  I want to increase it, but it just seems like the kids are making it extra hard. 

Yesterday was really discouraging, but I thought maybe there's a bright side to this.  Maybe we could cater it to people with kids and be the best airbnb for kids.  We could build a sandbox, get a play pen, get some board games.  Maybe even a swing set.  Other ideas?

Only problem that comes to mind is that its a 1-bdr with a queen.  We have a cot.  We could get an inflatable mattress.  But how many people are going to want to squeeze into a 1 bdr with 1-2 kids?


justajane

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 05:45:58 AM »
I have kids and still wouldn't want to stay in an Airbnb with kids. For instance, in a hotel a few weeks ago, a loud toddler in the next room kept on waking up my toddler, who obviously went to bed earlier, from 8 p.m.- 9 p.m. with his stomping around. So, in that sense, I don't necessarily think that you having kids makes the place more appealing to families with kids. They are two separate issues. The toys and sandbox and play pen would be appealing, but they will still be annoyed with the noise.

Maybe you should cater to the hearing impaired (sorry, bad joke). But in all seriousness, maybe it's just not the right time in your life for doing this, although I have three older boys and they are not necessarily quieter. But when they are older, you are more able to reason with them. When you have people staying, you could institute a "quiet day" and make it a challenge for them to only do quieter things like read or draw.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 05:55:58 AM »
justajane, yes good point.

I guess I thought they would be more likely to be happy because parents of young kids are a little more "hardened" to the noise, whereas people without kids are almost surprised at what kids are like.  They're used to peace and quiet, so it really stands out for them! 

My first thought after the potential renter left yesterday was that this might not be the right time for this.  But then my stubborn self thinks that there must be a way to make this work, because we need the money for my mustachian goals!

It almost seems like we should be saving and looking for a cheap lot to buy elsewhere.  Then we could rent our current house as well.

I'm a red panda

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 06:33:50 AM »
Install excellent soundproofing?

Disclose the noise issue but price it so cheap that people don't mind?

And I agree- people with kids are still annoyed by other people's kids.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2016, 06:46:57 AM »
[crying and moaning in jest] Why do we all hate kids?!

Yes, I'm lowering the price as we speak.  The noise has always been disclosed.  Managing expectations is so important.  I noticed that in the beginning when our prices were low, everyone left really pleased.  And then I raised prices and people became unhappier.  I guess I'll seek out the budget crowd.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 06:49:30 AM by LadyStache in Baja »

MrsDinero

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2016, 07:38:54 AM »
Even if people are "hardened" to the noise it doesn't mean they want to be around it if they are traveling solo.  Traveling without your family means you can arrange your sleeping pillows how you want, go to the bathroom without little fingers poking under the door, and enjoy a little peace and quiet.

I think lowering the price and being honest about the noise is a good idea.  You might consider putting a white noise machine in the room too and working to make the room more soundproof.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2016, 08:03:18 AM »
I love the white noise machine idea!  Just reading up on Amazon about it, and seems like it would really help.

Retire-Canada

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2016, 08:15:17 AM »
Why do we all hate kids?!

Let's be honest kids are little assholes. Just like big assholes they are not much fun to be around when they are causing a rukus and just like the big versions you tolerate them more or less in direct relation to how many of your genes they share. Luckily most kids grow out of it. Sadly most adult assholes never change.

I will never knowingly pick accommodations or restaurants that feature a lot of kids and the fewer the better. Part of what I am paying for is a peaceful environment to relax and enjoy myself.

I think discounting the rental and disclosing the noise issue is all you can do until the kids are old enough that you can teach them some self-control. Once they are that old maybe you can offer them a cut of the profits if they stay reasonably quiet?

My mom needed to have students renting a room in our house when I was young to make ends meet. Noise in the evenings was not on. I figured that out pretty quick.

justajane

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2016, 08:34:09 AM »
Why do we all hate kids?!

Let's be honest kids are little assholes. Just like big assholes they are not much fun to be around when they are causing a rukus and just like the big versions you tolerate them more or less in direct relation to how many of your genes they share. Luckily most kids grow out of it. Sadly most adult assholes never change.

I will never knowingly pick accommodations or restaurants that feature a lot of kids and the fewer the better. Part of what I am paying for is a peaceful environment to relax and enjoy myself.

I think discounting the rental and disclosing the noise issue is all you can do until the kids are old enough that you can teach them some self-control. Once they are that old maybe you can offer them a cut of the profits if they stay reasonably quiet?

My mom needed to have students renting a room in our house when I was young to make ends meet. Noise in the evenings was not on. I figured that out pretty quick.

Haha. I totally agree with you, and I have three kids. The toddler I take in public as rarely as possible. He is such a pain in the ass. And for this reason, I do get annoyed when I go out to dinner and someone else has brought their toddler. Once in a blue moon, they are a delight and sit quietly and stare the whole time, but by and large, they are loud and disruptive. It's not the kid's fault. Like you say, toddler are just assholes. It's in their DNA. They will grow out of it.

I am extremely sensitive about noise when I sleep, so we always bring a noise maker when we travel. And ear plugs. I would include both in the room. That is a fabulous idea someone suggested.

mm1970

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2016, 10:39:37 AM »
So we run a lovely little airbnb, on the second floor of our house.  We have four kids 4 and under, all energetic, loud boys.  We've had 14 guests in our first year and 2 left a review saying how the noise was a problem.  One actually left a day early.  :(  Then yesterday we had a local potential renter come check it out and after saying it was beautiful, he declined saying "Its not his cup of tea".  I can only assume he meant the kids, especially since they were being extra crazy at the time. 

I really love the rental income.  I want to increase it, but it just seems like the kids are making it extra hard. 

Yesterday was really discouraging, but I thought maybe there's a bright side to this.  Maybe we could cater it to people with kids and be the best airbnb for kids.  We could build a sandbox, get a play pen, get some board games.  Maybe even a swing set.  Other ideas?

Only problem that comes to mind is that its a 1-bdr with a queen.  We have a cot.  We could get an inflatable mattress.  But how many people are going to want to squeeze into a 1 bdr with 1-2 kids?
For sure your best bet is to market it to kids. 

I've got 2 kids, and honestly, I'm old enough to prefer 2 bedrooms.  But I would still consider a 1 BR - we do, occasionally, stay at hotels after all - but usually a hotel for 1 or 2 nights, and an Air-BNB or condo for longer.

So, a queen bed and a sofabed would do it for a family of four.  You might find plenty of families willing to do that.

MerryMcQ

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2016, 12:05:10 PM »
Maybe you should cater to the hearing impaired (sorry, bad joke).

I'm deaf, but the rest of my family isn't. ;) A noisy hotel would bother my spouse (okay, has bothered him, more than once). Wouldn't bother me. As a deaf traveler, I would love if a host knew some ASL (American Sign Language), even just a few phrases, and set up the room to be friendly to a deaf/HoH guest. I think there might actually be a market for that. Try visiting Alldeaf forums and you could easily ask, I think they have a lot of folks who travel.

That being said, I doubt my kids would care if other kids were being reasonably noisy, as long as it was at reasonable hours... i.e., do they start running, screaming, and banging at 6 AM? Is the baby waking at 2 am screaming? There's "noisy" and then there's "NOISY"... Can you train them to be quiet until 10 AM? When you have guests, can you put away the noisier toys and pull out a quiet video or the play-dough? If you allow TV, you could switch to only allowing TV watching when a guest is staying overnight, and keep the volume down low. Then it is a special treat and a quiet activity.

When my kids were younger, I would prefer to have them in the same room when traveling, just for my own peace of mind. A queen bed and a sofa bed would be just fine for a family of 4. Lots of families also have just 1 kid traveling with them.

mamagoose

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2016, 12:29:07 PM »
We have one kid (toddler) and the 1-BR is not an issue. If an AirBnB was advertised as "baby-proofed" it would stand out to me as a winner, in addition to the play equipment in the yard, plus other kids. It's such a pain to chase my kid around hotel rooms with sharp table edges, electrical cords & outlets, fancy glass decorations. If I were shopping for a kid-friendly vacation rental, I'd look for those things, and maybe some other extras to make it stand out, like bath toys, bubble bath, Goldfish crackers included, the little things that say "your kid is welcome here". Those things would overshadow any noise issues, especially considering that's more hospitable than my family members are when we stay at their homes (and they are noisy WITHOUT kids - "the game's on!!").

charis

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2016, 12:32:37 PM »
I personally wouldn't want to stay in a house/hotel with noisy kids whether I was traveling with mine or alone.  I certainly don't hate kids and while I am hardened to their noise in my own home, I don't want to pay to listen to other people's children.  My youngest still naps in the afternoon, as does my older one on the weekends, so noise that might disrupt their naps would bother me.

Axecleaver

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2016, 01:17:35 PM »
I think you have two viable options. One is to lower the price, let your customers know the deal, and take what you can get. The other option is to find ways to incentivize your children to be quieter when you have guests.

This is likely to be a controversial post, but children are extremely trainable. They also have hard limits - you're not going to get an exhausted two year old to be quiet and sit up straight after midnight, no matter what you promise them. Start training them with quiet time and times they can be noisy. This takes time. When there's guests around, find ways to reward your kids for being quiet once the guest leaves. You could arrange a signal of some sort - a red light/green light type deal you put on the refrigerator, for example.

Combine these  - lower your prices now, train the horde, and in six months, profit!

justajane

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2016, 01:18:36 PM »
Maybe you should cater to the hearing impaired (sorry, bad joke).

I'm deaf, but the rest of my family isn't. ;) A noisy hotel would bother my spouse (okay, has bothered him, more than once). Wouldn't bother me. As a deaf traveler, I would love if a host knew some ASL (American Sign Language), even just a few phrases, and set up the room to be friendly to a deaf/HoH guest. I think there might actually be a market for that. Try visiting Alldeaf forums and you could easily ask, I think they have a lot of folks who travel.

That's such a great idea for another niche market, not necessarily for the OP, but for someone who had a background in ASL or an interest in learning some. Does Airbnb let you filter search for that? I imagine they would for wheelchair accessibility, but it makes sense to enable this type of functionality for other particular needs too. For instance, we have a several hearing impaired educational institutes and schools in my city, so I imagine there would be a demand for such an apartment.

With hotel rooms, though, I imagine the vibrations from rowdy children could still bother you?

SKL-HOU

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2016, 01:23:31 PM »
I assume people are renting your bedroom for vacation purposes or while travelling on business. Who would want 4 screaming kids while they are vacationing or on a business trip? Even if I am vacationing with my kid, I would not want to deal with noisy kids (disclaimer: my kid is pretty quiet so I really have lower tolerance but still slightly more than people with no kids). I think you can just continue to advertise and disclose the noise but just accept that it may not bring in as much as you would like until your kids are quieter or out of the house, which may happen at the same time with 4 kids :) Is building a tiny house or something like that in your backyard an option?

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2016, 01:35:03 PM »
Thanks for all the responses!
SKL-HOU We do disclose the noise, and have from day one.  And we do have plans to build a small house in the backyard for ourselves.  That will help with some of the noise, but since its a warm climate year round, the kids do spend a lot of time playing outside.  So I will have to teach them to play quietly and use their quiet voices inside and outside!

MerryMcQ--love the TV as a privilege only when guests are staying! 

Mamagoose--yes!  that's what I mean!  I've had my kids in a hotel room and it was HELL because it wasn't babyproofed.  Actually writing that in the description is a great idea.  Thanks for the encouragement.

Axecleaver--Yes!  As I've been writing and thinking about this today, I've realized that I've been lazy as a parent.  It's time to educate my children instead of just sighing, "oh boys will be boys".  Bad parent!  When I was a first grade teacher we worked on our "Stamina".  We had a little chart, like a temperature gauge, and we'd color in the boxes for how many minutes we could "Stay in our seats, work the whole time, and work silently".  We'd try to do one more minute than the day before.  The students got it and enjoyed working on it.  I think I could do this with my kids.  We'll have set aside quiet time activities where we color, read books, listen to stories, do playdoh, and we'll run work on increasing our quiet time Stamina.  We can also talk about volume and practice turning it up and down.  And my husband and I need to model using our quiet voice as well, even when we're upset. 

Isn't it always the case that the best things in life come through our tribulations?

MerryMcQ

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2016, 06:13:21 PM »

With hotel rooms, though, I imagine the vibrations from rowdy children could still bother you?

Hm... The vibration from a jet engine is pretty noticeable. I could feel our house shake when the Blue Angel's buzzed us at about 100' once (actually thought it was an earthquake). Can't imagine that even an especially rowdy 4 year old could match that. :)  I don't know that small people stomping around could make enough of a vibration that it would bother me, but it might some folks.

I think so many BnBs are adamantly child-unfriendly (or just flat-out "no kids" allowed) that you may be able to find a great market just in the young-family travelers.

Neustache

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2016, 06:31:17 PM »
Kids that young can be kept outside if it's above 40 degrees out - take them away as much as possible when you have guests.  Also, aren't little kid in bed by like...7 or 8?  Shouldn't be an issue at night unless they are waking up screaming (which sometimes they do that!)

I would try to increase their quiet stamina and also increase their time away when you have guests.   Go to a museum, a  park, come back and nap, then leave after naptime and don't come back until bedtime.  A lot of work but your kids would probably love it and your guests will appreciate it.  The works if you only keep guests for part of the time.   I kept a similar schedule when we are in hotels for my husbands training - I hate trying to keep the kids quiet in a hotel room so we are gone as much as possible with just an hour or two in the evening and morning where they are there disturbing other guests.  I am very strict about noise levels/banging stuff/stomping in a hotel room so when we are there we are fairly quiet (for a room with kids, anyways). 

tobitonic

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2016, 06:43:00 PM »
Kids that young can be kept outside if it's above 40 degrees out - take them away as much as possible when you have guests.

I agree with this, except that kids that young can be kept outside down to zero degrees (or even lower) if dressed appropriately. In many northern states, private schools, and Scandanavian countries, toddlers and preschoolers are regularly sent out in zero-degree weather. If kids are kept in, it's almost exclusively because adults are afraid of the cold, not because of legitimate health or safety risks.

Neustache

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2016, 06:55:53 PM »
For older kids, I would totally agree - but with babies who don't move?  I don't know!  Maybe it's fine, but it seems like they'd get cold quickly and may not be able to communicate that.   Properly clothed, my kids  go out if it's above 30.  At school, I know they go out for recess if the wind chill is above 17 but I used to hate that as a kid. 

JustTrying

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2016, 07:31:54 PM »
I'm in agreement that your options are to make the noise/kid problem clear and then keep the price low. I LOVE kids (my entire career is focused on kids), but there is zero chance I would pay money to stay at a place with 4 kids running around. That being said, if the price is low enough, maybe there are people less picky than me who would be willing to pay?

Alternative: Find another side-income.

rockstache

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2016, 08:08:18 PM »

Maybe you should cater to the hearing impaired (sorry, bad joke).

I'm deaf, but the rest of my family isn't. ;) A noisy hotel would bother my spouse (okay, has bothered him, more than once). Wouldn't bother me. As a deaf traveler, I would love if a host knew some ASL (American Sign Language), even just a few phrases, and set up the room to be friendly to a deaf/HoH guest. I think there might actually be a market for that. Try visiting Alldeaf forums and you could easily ask, I think they have a lot of folks who travel.

That's such a great idea for another niche market, not necessarily for the OP, but for someone who had a background in ASL or an interest in learning some. Does Airbnb let you filter search for that? I imagine they would for wheelchair accessibility, but it makes sense to enable this type of functionality for other particular needs too. For instance, we have a several hearing impaired educational institutes and schools in my city, so I imagine there would be a demand for such an apartment.

With hotel rooms, though, I imagine the vibrations from rowdy children could still bother you?

I don't have too much to add but I did book an Air bnb a few months ago and I actually couldn't filter on wheelchair accessibility, so I had to write and ask each host one by one if the place would work for us. So ridiculous to me in this day and age that that wouldn't be a filter. I hope they have fixed it. I could filter on vrbo.com but I like the $ safety of Airbnb better.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2016, 05:52:33 AM »
Neustache Yes, we'll have to take them out more. 

JustTrying No! I will not give up!  :)  I've even thought about renting a cheaper place in town and renting out the apartment and our main residence, but it's a little risky for me to take seriously, and would cut into the profits enough to make it not quite worth it.  The amount of money we get for the amount of effort is just so much greater than any other side hustle I can think of.  Now that the thing is built and furnished and all the sites are set up.  And I also have to remember that out of 18 guests, only two have complained.   
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 06:19:29 AM by LadyStache in Baja »

I'm a red panda

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2016, 07:12:01 AM »

I agree with this, except that kids that young can be kept outside down to zero degrees (or even lower) if dressed appropriately. In many northern states, private schools, and Scandanavian countries, toddlers and preschoolers are regularly sent out in zero-degree weather. If kids are kept in, it's almost exclusively because adults are afraid of the cold, not because of legitimate health or safety risks.

Are you talking Celsius or Fahrenheit? 

I'm not sending kids outside 0 fahrenheit for very long.

0 Celsius is a beautiful winter day. The kids will want to be outside.  That said, I still wouldn't force them to be outside longer than they want to be out there.

And yes, leaving your baby outside in a stroller the cold winter is a thing in some countries. It isn't in the US. You'd be charged with child endangerment.

SeanMC

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2016, 07:23:02 AM »

I really love the rental income.  I want to increase it, but it just seems like the kids are making it extra hard. 


I am sure you don't mean to be presenting things this way and are experiencing the frustration of someone giving a complaint or a bad review (or declining to stay).

But...you are making it sound like you care more about the rental income than your kids. Noisy kids are not "ruining" your side income. You have 4 kids under the age of 4 who LIVE IN YOUR HOME and are part of your family.

Yes, you can work on manners and behavior. Yes, you can take your kids out more. At the end of the day, though, you still have preschool and younger boys. They will make noise. They will be kids. They will want to play "loud." They will have bad or off days. Do you really want a relationship with your kids where they are the barrier to more income and where they have to be on eggshells because you view them as ruining your earnings?

Your expectations are way out of line if you think you can some solve this through better marketing or hospitality industry skills. When the kids are a bit older, I'm sure you will get a better handle on the noise and you can teach your kids how to help out with the rental. Right now, charge less and be upfront with people. Otherwise, you can focus on what you choose to get frustrated by and not take it personally when people don't like/want the noise or when the kids act like kids.

meg_shannon

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2016, 08:11:36 AM »
Just wanted to say that it sounds like you have some great ideas to work with. We have one five year and would totally rent your place. Kid noises don't bother me, as long as it's not their electronic toys. I will second, or third, advertising your place specifically as baby/kid friendly. It's so nice not to have to worry about your kid getting hurt in their temporary home away from home.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2016, 08:25:13 AM »
SeanMC -- yeah that's a thought that comes up often in conversations with my husband "it's their home too".  Obviously I love my kids and don't want to walk around on eggshells.  That being said, I can do better teaching them quiet time.  I'm not going to expect them to be perfect all the time!  I'm a parent of 4 kids 4 and under.  I get it!  But I haven't done any work at all on quiet time, and they need it to be accepted in society at large, not just in my home!  I've never even muttered the words "because there are guests upstairs".  It's like I haven't given them any credit or opportunity to practice self-control.  And if the noise is disclosed in the advertisement, then I think guests will generally be ok with an occasional tantrum or truck noises or cry. 

My first thought was simply, "we can't run an airbnb now".  I'm trying to be creative and think out of the box.  Marketing to people with young kids could work because people who vacation with their kids aren't exactly looking for "peace and quiet" like kid-free people are.  People with young kids never get peace and quiet anyway, and like meg_shannon pointed out, a kid-proof home is a blessing.  It's the only way to not be on eggshells when you're on vacation. 

I'm thinking moving forward I'll
--work on quiet time education and being considerate of others
--not take it personal when people complain since it's in the listing literature anyway.
--keep the price low, and not raise it during the high-season.

Neustache

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2016, 09:01:31 AM »
You can make practicing self-control fun, too.  These, IIRC, are Montessori ideas, but they are fun and help still kids.

Go in another room and tell the kids to listen for their name - but you are only going to whisper it - so they have to be still and quiet.  When they hear their name they come find you and you whisper the next kids name.  Start with the most likely to not be quiet for long kiddo, and work up to the one with the most self control (probably the eldest, but not necessarily).

Get a bell and teach them how to hold it and walk without ringing the bell. Slow and carefully.

Have them practice shutting doors and cabinets so they don't make a sounds.  Make it a game where they are going to practice it and see how quiet they can get it.

There might be other ideas, these are the ones I remember.   

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2016, 09:05:37 AM »
Neustache I love this!!!  Thanks!

tobitonic

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2016, 08:21:09 PM »

I agree with this, except that kids that young can be kept outside down to zero degrees (or even lower) if dressed appropriately. In many northern states, private schools, and Scandanavian countries, toddlers and preschoolers are regularly sent out in zero-degree weather. If kids are kept in, it's almost exclusively because adults are afraid of the cold, not because of legitimate health or safety risks.

Are you talking Celsius or Fahrenheit? 

I'm talking about Fahrenheit.

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I'm not sending kids outside 0 fahrenheit for very long.

You don't have to, but it's not going to harm them. And kids are regularly sent out at those temperatures (or below!) in northern states in the US every winter; it's called recess.

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0 Celsius is a beautiful winter day. The kids will want to be outside. 

Kids aren't automatically going to want to be outside at 32 and not want to be outside at 0; kids who are dressed well and regularly given the opportunity to play outside year round will be fine at both temperatures, while kids who never go outside or who don't have winter clothing will be unhappy at either. Take a trip to the south and you'll find plenty of kids who'd rather stay inside than play outside when it's below 50. Take a trip far north, and you'll find kids who don't at an eye at playing outside at 0. Again, it has to do with how they're raised (or rather, the fears and expectations of the adults around them).

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That said, I still wouldn't force them to be outside longer than they want to be out there.
I'm not talking about forcing kids out but being out there with them...it's good for adults too! I wouldn't send kids below 4 out alone regardless of the temperature.

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And yes, leaving your baby outside in a stroller the cold winter is a thing in some countries. It isn't in the US. You'd be charged with child endangerment.

See above.

DebtFreeBy25

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2016, 08:46:50 PM »
Do your kids have a set (or reasonably close to set) bedtime? If so, I'd advise letting potential guests know when they're likely to get some quiet time. Manage the expectations and you should be able to get some guests who are just looking for a place to sleep and don't plan to hang out at your home.  I'm assuming your kids are relatively quiet at night. If not, that's going to be a deal-breaker for most people.

Also what's the proximity between the guest room and where your kids typically are? Is it possible to increase the distance? If not, is it possible to get your kids out of the house (run some errands, visit a family member, etc.) when a guest is trying to relax or sleep?

cchrissyy

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2016, 10:31:13 PM »
If the kids are noisy enough to disturb your guests in a shared-house rental, then no, I don't think you can do airbnb at this stage of life. Like you are finding, there will be too many unhappy experiences and bad reviews, and training the kids or trying harder will not go far enough to change that.

(I have 3 kids and spent their earliest years hushing them because of shared floors and walls and stressed by complaining neighbors. No fun for anyone)

I think your best bet to get rental income now isn't ABNB but slightly longer-term stuff, people like professionals coming to your town for weeks/months, maybe traveling nurses or visiting professors, or singles and small families who just moved to the area and are looking where to rent/buy.  These are poeeple you can speak with directly about the family who lives downstairs, and no matter if it is going well or not, nobody will stay too long and nobody will have a place to leave you a bad review.

redbird

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2016, 12:22:24 AM »
[crying and moaning in jest] Why do we all hate kids?!

Yes, I'm lowering the price as we speak.  The noise has always been disclosed.  Managing expectations is so important.  I noticed that in the beginning when our prices were low, everyone left really pleased.  And then I raised prices and people became unhappier.  I guess I'll seek out the budget crowd.

I think that's definitely the way to go. I haven't particularly thought about what I'd be willing to pay for noise vs no noise in a short-term, AirBnB sort of situation. I wouldn't be willing to pay to stay in your room if the price was too high just because of noise. But if it was clean and cheap? Sure!

White noise definitely does help a lot. I live in an apartment building with a lot of children AND I keep weird hours. Like I've been sleeping 5am-1pm most days lately. I have this fan that I use as white noise. One night I forgot to turn it on and starting at 7am the thumping around of the kids in the building woke me up. But with the fan on I can sleep through it.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2016, 06:16:18 AM »
This is how I've worded it:

"Our three toddlers are home when they're not at school.  Please keep that in mind--they are not always quiet, but they are always adorable!  :)  You can expect quiet on school days from 8-2, and at bedtime from 7:30 pm to 7 am."

On another site I added this line:   "We are doing our best to teach them quiet time, but emotions get the best of us at times.  Consider your tolerance level for that sort of noise."   <--keep it? / too much?


Thanks for the suggestion to put the hours in there.  You're right, if someone is going to be gone after 2, and likes quiet in the evenings, then this will be fine. 

I'm currently charging $69/night, which is cheap for the area.  I could go lower I suppose.  In the high season I could get $99/night, but then, I attracted a certain kind of guest who was less flexible and more demanding.  :)  And again, most people have been really nice and fine with it.  I just take it too personally when people aren't.  Our last guests just checked in two days ago and they were super nice.  Oh we want to meet your boys.  And leaning over the balcony engaging the kids in conversation.  They said "your kids will have a couple of grandmas up here".  :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 06:22:34 AM by LadyStache in Baja »

I'm a red panda

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2016, 07:12:15 AM »
Quote
I'm not sending kids outside 0 fahrenheit for very long.

You don't have to, but it's not going to harm them. And kids are regularly sent out at those temperatures (or below!) in northern states in the US every winter; it's called recess.

I live in a state that gets very cold on a regular basis, though this winter has been unusually warm.
Recess is indoor if the temperature is below 0 F. Outdoor is optional below 32F
We also get 2-hour school start delays if the windchill is below -10F, and usually cancellations if the windchill is below -20F.

Every state may not have that policy, but it isn't unusual.

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0 Celsius is a beautiful winter day. The kids will want to be outside. 

Kids aren't automatically going to want to be outside at 32 and not want to be outside at 0; kids who are dressed well and regularly given the opportunity to play outside year round will be fine at both temperatures, while kids who never go outside or who don't have winter clothing will be unhappy at either. Take a trip to the south and you'll find plenty of kids who'd rather stay inside than play outside when it's below 50. Take a trip far north, and you'll find kids who don't at an eye at playing outside at 0. Again, it has to do with how they're raised (or rather, the fears and expectations of the adults around them).

[/quote]
I was not referring to southern states, I'm sorry I wasn't more clear- I was talking about Scandinavian countries and northern states as referenced in the post- where you were not clear which 0 you were talking about. 
Here kids won't even wear a coat when playing outside if it is 32F (0C).  I don't think I would either- that's lovely.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 08:55:57 AM by iowajes »

justajane

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2016, 07:32:31 AM »
@iowajes

We live in a less cold climate, and at my kids' school they have outdoor recess when it is 22 degrees and above.

charis

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2016, 07:41:50 AM »
We live in the Northeast and I don't believe any schools we've been at sent my kids out when it was 0 degrees F.   However, it is not usually that cold, maybe 5-10 days a year.  The teens and low 20s is more common during the winter so they go outside most days.

Gin1984

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2016, 08:16:29 AM »

I agree with this, except that kids that young can be kept outside down to zero degrees (or even lower) if dressed appropriately. In many northern states, private schools, and Scandanavian countries, toddlers and preschoolers are regularly sent out in zero-degree weather. If kids are kept in, it's almost exclusively because adults are afraid of the cold, not because of legitimate health or safety risks.

Are you talking Celsius or Fahrenheit? 

I'm talking about Fahrenheit.

Quote
I'm not sending kids outside 0 fahrenheit for very long.

You don't have to, but it's not going to harm them. And kids are regularly sent out at those temperatures (or below!) in northern states in the US every winter; it's called recess.


Quote
0 Celsius is a beautiful winter day. The kids will want to be outside. 

Kids aren't automatically going to want to be outside at 32 and not want to be outside at 0; kids who are dressed well and regularly given the opportunity to play outside year round will be fine at both temperatures, while kids who never go outside or who don't have winter clothing will be unhappy at either. Take a trip to the south and you'll find plenty of kids who'd rather stay inside than play outside when it's below 50. Take a trip far north, and you'll find kids who don't at an eye at playing outside at 0. Again, it has to do with how they're raised (or rather, the fears and expectations of the adults around them).

Quote
That said, I still wouldn't force them to be outside longer than they want to be out there.
I'm not talking about forcing kids out but being out there with them...it's good for adults too! I wouldn't send kids below 4 out alone regardless of the temperature.

Quote
And yes, leaving your baby outside in a stroller the cold winter is a thing in some countries. It isn't in the US. You'd be charged with child endangerment.

See above.
It is 15 degrees here in WNY (so northern states), because of the cold, and windchill, many schools were cancelled and no, no one is going out for recess that is why our school has an indoor gym.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 08:18:37 AM by Gin1984 »

slappy

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2016, 08:51:45 AM »
I'm not sure that the outside temp matters much. Didn't OP mention that the kids are outside a lot and are still loud outside? (Which makes sense, since being outside is where I would expect kids to be loud. Still could be kind of annoying though.)

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2016, 08:53:46 AM »
We have one child.  We often book places that have 1 bedroom + a sofa bed in the living room.  Not sure if I'd still want to do that if I had more than one kid!

If your kids are screaming or crying at night (say between 7-7) and you can hear it upstairs, stop booking your place.  No one wants to hear that.

If they are being noisy only during the day, I love the idea of marketing the place towards people with kids.  I'd be happy for my son to have some playmates :)  A big backyard with a play structure and such sounds awesome! 

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2016, 09:07:31 AM »
lhamo  Great idea!  Yes, I'm thinking there is a way to think about this where EVERYBODY wins.  Automatic playdates available!  I know free kid-entertainment is a huge plus.  The parents can chill with a beer or a book with no whining for 30 minutes!  I just uploaded the below picture with a caption that says "Have kids?  Bring 'em over to our side for a playdate!"

Pharmastache Thanks for answering the 1 bdr question.  There's no screaming at night.  Our kids are awesome sleepers.  7:30 pm-7 am.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 09:16:03 AM »
Depending upon how handy you are, and how committed you are to the rental, there are soundproofing options: Soundboard, good double/triple pane windows, even something like a hedge of arborvitae once you build that second house. Depending upon your lot, your kids could also play on the other side of your newly built home: a building itself will be good sound proofing.

In the meantime, if you can tolerate critters I would recommend saying "any size dog welcome, $ cleaning fee, refundable" in your ads.

Having traveled with large dogs, so many places have a silly ten pound dog limit. You would stand out, and you should be fully booked.

When I had rental property I only rented to people with pets. Why? Higher rents, and they didn't have as many options to pick up and move at whim. But take a hefty deposit.

justajane

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 12:06:39 PM »
The large dog angle - that's brilliant!

tobitonic

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 06:55:51 PM »
It is 15 degrees here in WNY (so northern states), because of the cold, and windchill, many schools were cancelled and no, no one is going out for recess that is why our school has an indoor gym.

It depends on the state, the district, the school, and the teacher, but generally the temperature limits are more extreme up north than down south. As a quick example, in Delmar, which is also in New York, the temperature limit is 0.

In my school in IL, which isn't particularly bold, we stop going out below 25. In the Montessori school a few miles away, they go out down to 0. Same town, hugely different policies.

For school to be canceled due to temperature in my district, the wind chill in the morning needs to be at least -20, if not colder.

And I know several districts in Minnesota (e.g., International Falls) have an outdoor recess policy down to -15.

Bearded Man

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2016, 07:03:20 PM »
Why do we all hate kids?!

Let's be honest kids are little assholes. Just like big assholes they are not much fun to be around when they are causing a rukus and just like the big versions you tolerate them more or less in direct relation to how many of your genes they share. Luckily most kids grow out of it. Sadly most adult assholes never change.

I will never knowingly pick accommodations or restaurants that feature a lot of kids and the fewer the better. Part of what I am paying for is a peaceful environment to relax and enjoy myself.

I think discounting the rental and disclosing the noise issue is all you can do until the kids are old enough that you can teach them some self-control. Once they are that old maybe you can offer them a cut of the profits if they stay reasonably quiet?

My mom needed to have students renting a room in our house when I was young to make ends meet. Noise in the evenings was not on. I figured that out pretty quick.

I agree with this. Disclosing and reducing the rent make it easier to get people who are willing to deal with it and less likely for them to leave bad reviews since it was expected.

But it is very frustrating to go to a nice restaurant and have to sit by someone who has several loud kids running around like they are at home. Not everyone has kids and just because someone busted a nut doesn't mean that somehow the rest of the world must tolerate their offspring. It is really strange to me that some people marvel "I made that child" and act like it's an app they made after years of coding and it's their gift to the world.

Zikoris

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2016, 08:17:04 PM »
This temperature stuff is fascinating. My mom was a teacher in the far north of Canada for a number of years and the cut off for keeping kids indoors at recess and lunch was -30C to -40C, depending on windchill.

The_path_less_taken

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2016, 11:16:41 PM »
The large dog angle - that's brilliant!

Last time I rented a cottage on a trip to San Diego (14 years ago), I paid about $150 more a day to have a water view and let them take two large dogs. I think a $200 deposit for a week rental.

Worth it, to me.

To get an idea of numbers, search "dog friendly" rental listings in your area. And you can also just filter the regular bnb listing for "dogs ok" or whatever. Prices will surprise you.

justajane

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #48 on: February 13, 2016, 06:53:13 AM »
But it is very frustrating to go to a nice restaurant and have to sit by someone who has several loud kids running around like they are at home. Not everyone has kids and just because someone busted a nut doesn't mean that somehow the rest of the world must tolerate their offspring. It is really strange to me that some people marvel "I made that child" and act like it's an app they made after years of coding and it's their gift to the world.

I agree with you about the restaurant thing and expecting other people to tolerate your child's noise. But your last bit has nothing to do with that. I marvel at the fact that my three kids grew in my womb and that they are an inexplicable mixture of my DNA and my husband's. It's pretty amazing when I stop and thing about it. It's not unique. They're not a "gift to the world." But they are a gift to me.

I don't think being amazed about the existence of your children automatically equates to thinking that the rest of the world should be equally amazed or that they have a right to disturb the rest of the public. Those are two different things. You can privately do one and not publicly expect the other.

SeanMC

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Re: noisy children ruining our side-income!
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2016, 08:10:15 AM »
I disagree on trying to work the dog angle.

Toddlers and dogs are frequently a very bad match. Many dogs are uncomfortable around small children or view them as prey. Many toddlers and preschoolers have developmentally appropriate fear windows where they are terrified of dogs. This is especially true for kids who do not already have a dog in the home. Even if there is a dog in the home, small children and dogs must be supervised together at all times, inside or outside.

I wouldn't leave it to the potential renter to be responsible to realize that their dog is not good with kids (or unfamiliar kids). A lot of dog owners are not great at reading dog body language or claim that their dog is friendly, when it is not. Your kids' safety is too important to gamble with this.