Author Topic: New or used couches?  (Read 3182 times)

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17588
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: New or used couches?
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2022, 07:47:59 PM »
Even kids with fairly severe adhd improve with a token reward system. The book Love and Logic is a good parenting book on how to parent with empathy while letting kids experience natural consequences starting very young. Obviously not letting kids get injured, etc. This method allows kids to experience real life consequences versus punishment by the parents. 

Upbringing obviously doesnít always indicate how kids will be as adults. I literally knew 2 kids that were left alone all the time after school while their mom gambled from ages 8-10 and they actually destroyed the inside of the new house they grew up in. They were brats that no one wanted to be around. As adults they are law abiding people and one is really a excellent, loving person. 

If parents want to live with out of control kids I honestly donít care as long as they arenít disturbing others in public. I have great empathy for people on planes with crying babies and have helped walk and calm them to give the mom a break.  I also occasionally babysit my friendís granddaughter and we have fun playing together but if she starts jumping on the couch for example I nicely tell her to stop and she does. You can discipline without being mean.

Malcat, all I can say is you all lived with what the parents were willing to tolerate.  The fact that you find it funny is telling.

So just be clear, your argument can be summarized as: all kids can be taught to not damage furniture with appropriate parenting, and whenever children act otherwise it is the fault of the caregiver?  Is that a fair assessment?

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7946
Re: New or used couches?
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2022, 11:19:10 PM »
Actually Nereo the answer to your question is no because someone could have a severely disabled child or a child with a severe psychological or behavioral disorder that could interfere with learning appropriate behavior. As a former social worker I have worked with some children that were very disabled or with severe psychological problems sometimes due to being abused and sometimes for no discernible reason.  I had a 5 year old boy on my caseload that I would have been afraid to be in the same house if I was sleeping. Sadly he was severely abused. This child was so unpredictable he had to ride in the front seat of a car so you could see what he was doing. He tried to start a fire in someoneís car. I am sure thereís other exceptions I am not thinking of. I have been retired for a long time. Some kids with excellent parents end up being axe murders. Nothing in life is guaranteed.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17588
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: New or used couches?
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2022, 05:04:52 AM »
Actually Nereo the answer to your question is no because someone could have a severely disabled child or a child with a severe psychological or behavioral disorder that could interfere with learning appropriate behavior. As a former social worker I have worked with some children that were very disabled or with severe psychological problems sometimes due to being abused and sometimes for no discernible reason.  I had a 5 year old boy on my caseload that I would have been afraid to be in the same house if I was sleeping. Sadly he was severely abused. This child was so unpredictable he had to ride in the front seat of a car so you could see what he was doing. He tried to start a fire in someoneís car. I am sure thereís other exceptions I am not thinking of. I have been retired for a long time. Some kids with excellent parents end up being axe murders. Nothing in life is guaranteed.

OK, Iím not sure how to reconcile that with your earlier statements.
To be clear, I do think that many (perhaps even a majorityÖ?) cases of chronic bad behavior can be attributed to poor parenting methods. However, there are two important components in that statement.  First, as youíve said thereís a sizeable chunk of kids with real learning disabilities. Second, from a cognitive standpoint children are still developing and are not adults, particularly with impulse control, recognizing cause and effect and predicting likely outcomes. Put another way, itís quite normal for a well adjusted, well parented child to occasionally do something thatís both objectively dumb and unintentionally destructive. In fact, Iíve never met a kid who didnít do something like this at least a few times.

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7946
Re: New or used couches?
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2022, 01:13:51 PM »
I have 3 graduate degrees in the social sciences and have had 3 different careers. I spent years working with abused children and people with disabilities. I am just tired of some people not taking responsibility for their kids and blanket statements like we canít have nice things until the kids grow up which in most cases really isnít true. Out of my 3 I had one child with a disability and not a lot of impulse control. My friend had a child with the most severe case of ADHD I have ever seen and we all had nice things. Kids are a lot of work and I wish more people would realize that before having them.

Metalcat

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 17604
Re: New or used couches?
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2022, 01:31:58 PM »
I have 3 graduate degrees in the social sciences and have had 3 different careers. I spent years working with abused children and people with disabilities. I am just tired of some people not taking responsibility for their kids and blanket statements like we canít have nice things until the kids grow up which in most cases really isnít true. Out of my 3 I had one child with a disability and not a lot of impulse control. My friend had a child with the most severe case of ADHD I have ever seen and we all had nice things. Kids are a lot of work and I wish more people would realize that before having them.

Funny, I too have multiple relevant degrees with extensive education in development and have worked in multiple different careers, almost all of which have involved directly working with children/special needs children/abused children, including personally having to control their behaviour so that I could do extremely dangerous and painful things to them. I agree that A LOT of parents are insufferable fucking brats who refuse to take responsibility for their kids. Parents are the reason I stopped treating kids. Kids are great. Parents??? Increasingly not so great, unfortunately.

I get what you are saying, but I stand by what I've said as well.

There can be both many parents who don't take responsibility for their children AND some children who cannot be reasonably controlled, like my brother. And no, it doesn't say anything about me that I now laugh about it other than the fact that I have an excellent sense of humour about the little shit who had a lot of "We Need to Talk About Kevin" vibes until he thankfully grew out of it.

I love that kid, but he is truly fortunate that we didn't murder him...or that he didn't murder us, although I'm positive he thought about it.